RuneBrush Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Am inclined to agree that summoning for Khorne will be limited to daemons - good excuse to pick up some of the red skinned folk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralZero Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Good move again from GW to sell more minis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trayanee Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 What about Tzeentch. Aside of the obvious demon summoning, there is also the Tzaangor Shaman spell. Do you think the set up part will be removed from it or will those Tzaangors cost summoning points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralZero Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 don't worry, we have at least one more week of faction focus. you'll be enlightened very soon for sure (Tzeentch is an important faction for GW) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trayanee Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 I don't really expect another faction focus for Tzeentch although the first one was mostly endless spell preview. But I don't care much to be honest. I am going to be happy should it end up either way. Too few people realize that every change even a nerf presents you with a challenge which is an opportunity to grow and have fun which is really the goal of this all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xasz Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 8 minutes ago, Trayanee said: I don't really expect another faction focus for Tzeentch although the first one was mostly endless spell preview. But I don't care much to be honest. I am going to be happy should it end up either way. Too few people realize that every change even a nerf presents you with a challenge which is an opportunity to grow and have fun which is really the goal of this all... I'd be happy too. It is very likely that Tzeentch will remain strong and nothing indicates that they are ironing out any of the deeply rooted flaws within DoT. Not to mention the spell expansion which is right up your alley and seemingly one of the easiest way to summon. (imperfect information) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoseman Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 I was thinking to start with Chaos and was going to the battleforce tzeentch but I think I will wait till those summon stuff get clear. I like how Tzeentch shows on paper, and that pack with my Silver Tower heroes (gaunt summoner 2 spells, Ogroid 1 spell, Pink horror Herald 1 maybe 2 spells more...) could be a fun army. And said that Im waiting to see the new branchwraith magic too, it's supposed to summon driads but maybe they changed and can summon some other things too, a nice ally to my idoneth guys... And so as the new Lord something from SCE that can heal and return died stormcast to battle... another nice ally to idoneth... And of course I'm waiting to complete my nighthaunt army with the new set... more summoning and magic guys I think it's a lot of things to maybe go to another army... but those Tzeentch blue mutated birds are so cute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeryenn Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 35 minutes ago, Xasz said: Very unlikely. TBH, what is you reasoning for expecting this? There is nothing that would suggest that this would happen, as the old Khorne table was strictly limited to daemons and pretty much only daemon warscrolls had the summon spell on them. (within GA Chaos) We cannot rule it out completely due to missing information, but it would neither correlate to fluff nor previous rules. Summon spell is irrelevant. Dryads don't have it, neither do tree-revenants or Kurnoth Hunters. It's just up to GW whether they want to help balance not really great mortal side of Khorne. If we ever see a Khorne list in a top x in a tournament, it is a demons list. They have an opportunity to fix things. To be honest I also think it will be demons only summon but still I think it is a bad move, both in term of balance and communication with customers. I won't spend €200 on demons just to fit new rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trayanee Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 10 minutes ago, Xasz said: I'd be happy too. It is very likely that Tzeentch will remain strong and nothing indicates that they are ironing out any of the deeply rooted flaws within DoT. Not to mention the spell expansion which is right up your alley and seemingly one of the easiest way to summon. (imperfect information) I have am not talking about Tzeentch only. I am speaking about the second edition in general. My current army is Legion of Azgorh which likely wont get many goodies and I am still really looking forward to be challenged with list building and tactics to adapt to the changes whatever they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xasz Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, Aryann said: Summon spell is irrelevant. Dryads don't have it, neither do tree-revenants or Kurnoth Hunters. It's just up to GW whether they want to help balance not really great mortal side of Khorne. If we ever see a Khorne list in a top x in a tournament, it is a demons list. They have an opportunity to fix things. To be honest I also think it will be demons only summon but still I think it is a bad move, both in term of balance and communication with customers. I won't spend €200 on demons just to fit new rules. Again, don't get your hopes up. To be honest, I'd find it even rather disturbing if suddenly mortals would be able to jump out of a highway portal from Khorne's realms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amysrevenge Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, Xasz said: To be honest, I'd find it even rather disturbing if suddenly mortals would be able to jump out of a highway portal from Khorne's realms. There are more summoning mechanics than that. Appearing on a board edge is something humans could do very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xasz Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, amysrevenge said: There are more summoning mechanics than that. Appearing on a board edge is something humans could do very well. Which would be something totally out of the box for Khorne and probably would have been mentioned at some point. We are talking (or at least I hope we do) about the Blood Tithe summoning and there is pretty much no way you are gonna be able to summon mortals with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeryenn Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Yeah, exactly. It's just naming things. Khorne Bloodbound is weak. Jump to Let's Chat KB if you don't already know that. It will be (probably) worse with an increased importance of magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightstar Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 2 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said: Well it’s probably not too bad, but a chaos sorcerer lord, has a better spell now. casting it on 5 instead on a 6 and you can reroll Hit wounds and save rolls of 1. im not sure if the new mystic shield spell, will be worth something (anyways, does anybody know if Gw is chancing the rule with a spell can only be attempted ones to be cast, with per wizard, instead of per turn?) Re-roll 1 is essentially the same thing as a +1 save. But it is different enough to make it count on a small margin - especially with rend. MS is still a great spell, even with the rule change. With the change to arcane bolt, it is still the better of the two spells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amysrevenge Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, Xasz said: Which would be something totally out of the box for Khorne and probably would have been mentioned at some point. We are talking (or at least I hope we do) about the Blood Tithe summoning and there is pretty much no way you are gonna be able to summon mortals with this. Agreed. But not because you can't summon humans. Rather because we've already heard enough to guess that the Khorne summoning will be only demons. Other factions later could "summon" non-magical creatures and it would be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoby Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Brightstar said: Re-roll 1 is essentially the same thing as a +1 save. But it is different enough to make it count on a small margin - especially with rend. MS is still a great spell, even with the rule change. With the change to arcane bolt, it is still the better of the two spells. I think the issue a lot of people take with it is that many models get a reroll saves naturally, or have a better way to get it than a spell which casts on a 6 (look at the Chaos Sorcerer Lord), so mystic shield becomes much less useful for them. In addition, having a 5+ or 6+ save can mean you don't get a save at all in the presence of rend, so rerolling isn't as useful for them. Personally, I'm okay with the change, but I think its casting value should have changed to a 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 12 minutes ago, Brightstar said: Re-roll 1 is essentially the same thing as a +1 save. But it is different enough to make it count on a small margin - especially with rend. MS is still a great spell, even with the rule change. With the change to arcane bolt, it is still the better of the two spells. There are two major differences: many units already reroll save rolls of one and it's quite a bit worse with 4+, 5+ or 6+ save. Which is okay if the purpose was to make it worse than the warscroll spells to promote them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeryenn Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 It's not that I disagree with demons being more fluffy to be summoned. I think they can handle it to satisfy both sides. Instead of summoning call it "thirst for blood" and work it that way that bloodreavers and bloodwarriors are attracted to battle with each head taken by their comrades, i don't know. GW has people that are paid for coming up with fluff solutions. ☺️ It's not terrible if it doesn't happen but then I don't think Khorne Bloodbound can be tournament playable before new battletome or/and models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xasz Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Aryann said: It's not that I disagree with demons being more fluffy to be summoned. I think they can handle it to satisfy both sides. Instead of summoning call it "thirst for blood" and work it that way that bloodreavers and bloodwarriors are attracted to battle with each head taken by their comrades, i don't know. GW has people that are paid for coming up with fluff solutions. ☺️ It's not terrible if it doesn't happen but then I don't think Khorne Bloodbound can be tournament playable before new battletome or/and models. You have to detach yourself from the concept of KBB as a faction, there is only BoK. (realistically) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Hmm the last tournament I played was won by a gore pilgrim list and I don't think khorne is going to be worse off in AOS2. I wonder if tournament playable means automatics win or something. ? PS: I know there are stronger fractions it's just that not playable seems a bit to strong IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie Grimwood Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Khorne Bloodbound will be able to summon the Daemons though as it’s dependent on Blood tithe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asamu Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 22 minutes ago, Brightstar said: Re-roll 1 is essentially the same thing as a +1 save. But it is different enough to make it count on a small margin - especially with rend. MS is still a great spell, even with the rule change. With the change to arcane bolt, it is still the better of the two spells. No it isn't. +1 save is significantly better than re-rolling ones. If you have a 6+ save, you double the number of wounds you save with a +1, but re-rolling 1s only increases the save count by 1/6, so +1 to save is about 6 times as good in that case. At a 3+ save, +1 to save is twice as good. The new MS is only better in the case of a 2+ save, where a +1 save has no effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, Asamu said: No it isn't. +1 save is significantly better than re-rolling ones. If you have a 6+ save, you double the number of wounds you save with a +1, but re-rolling 1s only increases the save count by 1/6, so +1 to save is about 6 times as good in that case. At a 3+ save, +1 to save is twice as good. The new MS is only better in the case of a 2+ save, where a +1 save has no effect. To further emphasize your point, +1 to save continues to have value even if you already have a 2+ save. There are numerous abilities that activate off save rolls or save rolls of 6+, and it helps to counteract enemy rend. ...and that's probably why they had to nerf mystic shield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeryenn Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 9 minutes ago, Xasz said: You have to detach yourself from the concept of KBB as a faction, there is only BoK. (realistically) Come to think of it that might be a good advice but still I feel uncomfortable spending a lot of cash on demons (which I just don't like in term of minis) to fully operate my army. On the one hand you say there is no division across khorne but then we have battalions that most (all?) are pure mortals or pure demons. It's understandable that people focused their Khorne army on one side or another. Some skills or artefacts also work only with mortals/demons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightstar Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 27 minutes ago, Jamopower said: There are two major differences: many units already reroll save rolls of one and it's quite a bit worse with 4+, 5+ or 6+ save. Which is okay if the purpose was to make it worse than the warscroll spells to promote them. Totally see that. My Dryads are going to cry over the change and the Kurnoth just got a pretty big hit too. There were a lot of cases it was just too powerful, though, the way it was written. Mystic shield was a great spell. Now it's a mediocre spell. It does make warscroll spells better, but at what cost? I liked it before because everyone - who had magic - had access to the spell. Now some armies will be stronger because they have a "mystic shield" equivalent and others don't. The change is fine. I don't think the game needed it, but it does work this way. I would have preferred a rule like "mystic shield cannot take a save below 3+ or 4+. I think it would have made the spell just as useful as it was before while preventing extreme power combo's like, stacking it to get down to saves of 1+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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