The Black Sunz - Ironjawz - Update 28/02 - PICS! Whole new army painted!!

[Earthtremor]

3 battleline for 2k

2 ogors and moonclan fulfil the requirements

[Alucardh]

1 minute ago, Earthtremor said:

3 battleline for 2k

2 ogors and moonclan fulfil the requirements

Ty bro

[Earthtremor]

regarding the lists, my only worry is the bellowing tyrant on the StoneLord... in my experience he is often charging all over the shop and it is really easy to find yourself out of effective range for bellowing tyrant... the amount of times i've found myself with my general the only person who could benefit has been a huge frustration. I might suggest putting the generalship on the huskturd instead as he's more likely to be positioned behind your battlelines and with the ward he is more survivable.

 

[Dangermouse425]

On 06/04/2017 at 3:18 PM, Chris Tomlin said:

• Gore-gruntas, all the Gore-gruntas - So I have 15 unpainted Gore-gruntas (12 of which still need assembly). I would absolutely love to get these done for RAW17 ( @Thornshield, @Devilreefman, @Jimbo and especially @Mitzy should like that!). I'm not sure how realistic it is, but it's definitely a goal.

YES!

YES!!!!!!!

#oink

Make it so, Megaboss!

[Sangfroid]

@Chris Tomlin ogors are great battleline units arguably up until bonesniffers were release the best point for point in destruction. The ogres are fast enough anyway and your going to want to keep them all close with the ironjawz so how about this list to pay with? 

 

[N_Watson]

4 hours ago, Alucardh said:

Hi dude im bew on AoS is posible this list for matchplay? Cuz indint see the batteline requeriment cuz for 2K points need 4 battleline and the brutes is battleline for ironjaws alliegance 

Hey, not sure if you read it wrong somewhere. 3 battleline for 2000

[Jesper77]

On 2017-04-12 at 2:54 PM, Alucardh said:

Hi dude im bew on AoS is posible this list for matchplay? Cuz indint see the batteline requeriment cuz for 2K points need 4 battleline and the brutes is battleline for ironjaws alliegance 

Hi, it's 3 battle line units for 2k games. He has moonckan and 2 oger units as battlelines. 

[Caffran101]

On 4/12/2017 at 11:18 AM, Chris Tomlin said:

• Krunk - Battlebrew (140)
• Frostlord on Stonehorn - General, Bellowing Tyrant, Battlebrew (460)
• Moonclan Grot Shaman (60)
• 10  Brutes (360)
• 10  Brutes (360)
• 5 Brutes (180)
• 3 Ogors - Battleline (120)
• 3 Ogors - Battleline (120)
• 3 Ogors - Battleline (120)
• Ironfist (60)

Total: 1,980

What do we think, rubbish? I honestly dunno. Just feels like I'm doing it for the sake of it almost. Doesn't really do anything that an Ironjawz list doesn't...which kinda goes against why I was considering mixed Destruction. Hhhmmm.

Thoughts please boys and girls!

Chris

A suggestion to this list is to keep Krunk as your general, rather than the stonehorn, otherwise you will have to keep him close to the brutes to ensure one of them has inspiring presence on.

A stonehorn should be free to charge around the board dishing out carnage.

[Chris Tomlin]

Hey,

Well I did play a couple of games with my mixed list I posted last week and as suspected it wasn't anything special. It doesn't fix any of the weaknesses of a regular Ironjawz list and actually has less synergy. Sure, the Stonehorn is fun and pretty hardcore, but the list isn't what I want for now.

@Sangfroid - Sorry mate I didn't see your list until afterwards. Does look interesting though and at least would be a different sort of list to play, rather than essentially shoehorning a Stonehorn (lol!) into my regular list/playstyle.

I do have loads of Ogor models to rebase and do a bit of paint work to tie them into the Ironjawz more, so will persevere with that project inbetween other bits as it's a nice change of pace, but for SCGT, I'm definitely going to be taking pure Ironjawz.

The list I've practiced (badly) with most is;

• Krunk (Battle Brew)
• Pig Benis on Cabbage (General, Bellowing Tyrant, Talisman)
• Shaman
• Warchanter
• 10 Brutes
• 5 Brutes
• 5 Brutes
• 10 Ardboys
• 3 Gore-gruntas
• Ironfist

I won't get in anymore practice games now, but am still considering reverting back to my standard (post) Masters list, with the Megabrutes, but switching across to the Cabbage as General. I have absolutely no confidence of doing well now and actually wish I'd continued with the Sylvaneth for this event, then switched back to Ironjawz post SCGT. The nerf is so big to my list and style of play, also I've just not adapted well enough to it  

I honestly don't see pure Ironjawz doing well at this event at all. But, we'll see.

I really really hope to get a proper update to this thread ahead of the weekend. I've also done a bit more painting on my Weirdnob Shaman to try and finish off that smoke effect. I've spent hours applying countless layers and I'm still not happy. Will hopefully get one more evening this week.

Sorry for a bit of a downer!

Chris

[Garxia]

Any special reason for going with cabbage as general?

Seems bellowing tyrant will be a bit wasted on it.

Making Krunk general will make using bellowing tyrant easier, but you can't going on rampage with him and it's squishier.

PS: Respect for sticking with pure Ironjawz! 

[Chris Tomlin]

@Garxia - Good question. It's purely because of the SCGT pack tbh. The General is important in both some of the battleplans and the agendas, which are hugely important. The Cabbage will have to be played quite defensively I feel (although tbh I'm not the most aggressive player with him anyway).

In short, it's not at all ideal, but the pack forces it IMO. I just don't feel like this is an event where a good finish with Ironjawz seems likely. They even changed one of the battleplans that was good for Ironjawz to remove the battleline boost!

Still, they are my nicest army by a mile so I'd like to showcase them at the biggest event and I'm sure I'll still have good fun games regardless of results. I just may need to re-evaluate my 4 win target!!

[Nico]

With the Talisman (and Mystic Shield), the Cabbage might actually survive the Pew Pew from 27 Skyfires turn one. Happy days.

[N_Watson]

Ye, I'm having a hard time settling on a list. 

Had most success with this (if going to SCGT i would have Mawcrusher as general also.)

Leaders
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- General
- Trait: Ravager
- Artefact: Battle Brew
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (520)
- Artefact: Talisman of Protection
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
- Ironjawz Battleline
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Ironjawz Battleline
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Ironjawz Battleline
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Ironjawz Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (360)
- Ironjawz Battleline

Battalions
Ironfist (60)

Total: 2000/2000
 

This might be down to the fact i haven't failed a turn one charge yet with the gruntas and cabbage, smashing out a flank. 

Looking forward to seeing pics of your shaman. 

[Chris Tomlin]

2 hours ago, Nico said:

With the Talisman (and Mystic Shield), the Cabbage might actually survive the Pew Pew from 27 Skyfires turn one. Happy days.

Spoiler for a future battle report;

Spoiler

He didn't survive turn one vs a Tzeentch Changehost on Sunday  (losing 5 wounds on D6 mortal wound spell was kinda bad luck though haha!!)

 

1 hour ago, N_Watson said:

Ye, I'm having a hard time settling on a list. 

Had most success with this (if going to SCGT i would have Mawcrusher as general also.)

This might be down to the fact i haven't failed a turn one charge yet with the gruntas and cabbage, smashing out a flank. 

Looking forward to seeing pics of your shaman. 

 

Nice list, I did find the 6 Gore-gruntas to be of use and will 100% be painting more post SCGT. I have it in my head that I will allocate one spare weekend day or a few evenings to get my other 15 assembled. Just need to order a few bits to convert etc. Need some ideas for suitable banners...nudge nudge @Mitzy  

Tbh though, I'm kinda thinking I wont use Ironjawz at any other events banning the non-Leader General (hopefully SCGT will not create a trend here). I appreciate that I'll almost definitely have to deal with this under GH2, but I am hopeful there will be other changes that may compensate for this somewhat.

I hate going on about it so much, but it is fundamental to the way I play the army and also it's survival in a meta which is ever drifting further away from us I fear.

We'll see. I love the army too much to give up on it.

Edited April 18, 2017 by Chris Tomlin

[KnightFire]

3 hours ago, Garxia said:

Any special reason for going with cabbage as general?

 

Da biggest orruk is da wun in charge!

[Chris Tomlin]

2 hours ago, KnightFire said:

Da biggest orruk is da wun in charge!

Don't let the fact I call him Pig Benis fool you, Krunk is the biggest!  

[Nico]

Quote

I hate going on about it so much, but it is fundamental to the way I play the army and also it's survival in a meta which is ever drifting further away from us I fear.

The meta hasn't done Ironjawz any favours at all lately. Stormcast have mutated from good honest Mace to the Face alpha strike, which Ironjawz could deal with, to Raptor plus Judicator bunker plus stack defensive buffs with Fanatics Aetherwings to wreck all the Ironjawz charges. Blades of Khorne are horrible for Ironjawz to deal with (although the move away from more models helps a tad). Skyfires are another serious problem for Ironjawz. 

[Tom]

Ironjawz are majorly disappointing at the mo. They should be able to go toe to toe with anything. Sadly most of the time they just bounce off. An get trolled on the counter attack. 

everyone harps on about how they should be cheaper. I disagree. They should just fulfill their points cos. If they are cheaper we will field more An that losses some of the "elite" orruk army feel in my mind. 

i would like to see away for us to protect are characters a bit better. An teleporting. With the obvious down side of maybe blowing are own heads up. I'm not fussed about shooting. As much as it would be beneficial is it ironjawz? Anless they have it via a bullied goblin helper I'm not sure it is. Maybe missiles in the form of magic works. But I'm not sure. 

As someone who is also taking pure jaws to scgt where does that leave me.

Well I was gonna go double maw krusha for Lolz But as I'm not 100% feeling the army An thinking about a change. Don't really have the motivation to paint a second one.  

That leaves me with one clear answer get smaaaaashed an make a fool of my self in front of a load of people I don't know!!

 

[KnightFire]

Ironjawz are majorly disappointing at the mo. They should be able to go toe to toe with anything. Sadly most of the time they just bounce off. An get trolled on the counter attack. 
everyone harps on about how they should be cheaper. I disagree. They should just fulfill their points cos. If they are cheaper we will field more An that losses some of the "elite" orruk army feel in my mind. 
i would like to see away for us to protect are characters a bit better. An teleporting. With the obvious down side of maybe blowing are own heads up. I'm not fussed about shooting. As much as it would be beneficial is it ironjawz? Anless they have it via a bullied goblin helper I'm not sure it is. Maybe missiles in the form of magic works. But I'm not sure. 
As someone who is also taking pure jaws to scgt where does that leave me.
Well I was gonna go double maw krusha for Lolz But as I'm not 100% feeling the army An thinking about a change. Don't really have the motivation to paint a second one.  
That leaves me with one clear answer get smaaaaashed an make a fool of my self in front of a load of people I don't know!!
 

It leaves you ideally positioned to take part in the narrative hijack [emoji4]

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[Tom]

Hell yeah!! 

[Gorks Pokin' Finger]

My AOS group is just getting its legs under them and no one is really meta heavy with SC, Syvaneth or DoT yet, so my Ironjawz have been fine for the most part, though I do fear once our group gets more experienced and get shooting heavy, my luck against them will begin to turn

There's obviously the discussion on what the Ironjawz need, but what changes to the meta do you feel could be altered in GH2 that could aid Ironjawz? Line of sight rules or a cap on shooting units perhaps?

[Chris Tomlin]

Morning all,

16 hours ago, Nico said:

The meta hasn't done Ironjawz any favours at all lately. Stormcast have mutated from good honest Mace to the Face alpha strike, which Ironjawz could deal with, to Raptor plus Judicator bunker plus stack defensive buffs with Fanatics Aetherwings to wreck all the Ironjawz charges. Blades of Khorne are horrible for Ironjawz to deal with (although the move away from more models helps a tad). Skyfires are another serious problem for Ironjawz. 

Yeh man, you're on point here. Every new battletome seems to present a problem to Ironjawz in some way or another. This isn't a problem on if itself, new challenges are great and exciting. I actually don't want Ironjawz to be top tier, I like them being the underdog, but sometimes it feels like a little too much of an uphill struggle at present.

As you say, Stormcast do now have the tools to cause us a real problem (was a good matchup before, even Warrior Brotherhood!), Blades of Khorne are just better at being Ironjawz than Ironjawz are (@Cowboy Boots Matt said this after playing the new book)!! Tzeentch is an interesting one, my one practice game went awful but by no means do I think its a forgone conclusion tbh.

15 hours ago, Tom said:

Ironjawz are majorly disappointing at the mo. They should be able to go toe to toe with anything. Sadly most of the time they just bounce off. An get trolled on the counter attack. 

everyone harps on about how they should be cheaper. I disagree. They should just fulfill their points cos. If they are cheaper we will field more An that losses some of the "elite" orruk army feel in my mind. 

i would like to see away for us to protect are characters a bit better. An teleporting. With the obvious down side of maybe blowing are own heads up. I'm not fussed about shooting. As much as it would be beneficial is it ironjawz? Anless they have it via a bullied goblin helper I'm not sure it is. Maybe missiles in the form of magic works. But I'm not sure. 

As someone who is also taking pure jaws to scgt where does that leave me.

Well I was gonna go double maw krusha for Lolz But as I'm not 100% feeling the army An thinking about a change. Don't really have the motivation to paint a second one.  

That leaves me with one clear answer get smaaaaashed an make a fool of my self in front of a load of people I don't know!!

Interesting post Tom. What is your surname, I'll be sure to keep an eye out at for you at SCGT and see how you're doing.

I actually agree with you. Points decreases would be all well and good (they really would!) but my personal preference would be either modified scrolls or additional units that synergise differently and change things up a bit (Gore-gruntas in particular). However, that simply isn't going to happen any time soon I wouldn't think, so GH2 giving a small boost to points is what we need to cross our choppas for!

I don't really get why some people are so against Ironjawz shooting. The "What new units...." thread has some great posts by (I think) @Vasshpit about Ironjawz being more militant and like Tolkien's Uruk Hai - a comparison that rings true with the way I see the Ironjawz. Each to their own I guess though!

What are you thinking list wise? I'm still undecided! Spent another few hours on that Shaman's smoke last night....I swear I'm just making a mess of it!  

15 hours ago, KnightFire said:

It leaves you ideally positioned to take part in the narrative hijack
 

All well and good, but isn't that indicative of a sad state of affairs if we are relegated to playing for non scoring tertiary objectives at one of the more prestigious events in the UK?

9 hours ago, Gorks Pokin' Finger said:

There's obviously the discussion on what the Ironjawz need, but what changes to the meta do you feel could be altered in GH2 that could aid Ironjawz? Line of sight rules or a cap on shooting units perhaps?

I wouldn't want to see abstract line of sight rules return, I think the game has it just right at present. Same with shooting caps. It will be interesting to see new battleplans that maybe counter gunlines (perhaps with dynamic objectives etc) or indeed allegiance specific traits that help with bravery etc (pure wishlisting!!).

Some good and interesting comments being made here boyz.

I will try my best to cover off some of my recent games ahead of SCGT in the next couple of days.

Chris

Edited April 19, 2017 by Chris Tomlin

[KnightFire]

Something I was thinking about was that it would be great to have an allegiance ability that gives bonuses depending on how many units you ha e in combat. If you don't have many units you get the current destruction ability, but as you get more units in combat you get other bonuses like bravery and extra rend. I think that could keep the flavour of the ironjawz at the moment while giving them a boost.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[Nico]

Quote

Something I was thinking about was that it would be great to have an allegiance ability that gives bonuses depending on how many units you ha e in combat. If you don't have many units you get the current destruction ability, but as you get more units in combat you get other bonuses like bravery and extra rend. I think that could keep the flavour of the ironjawz at the moment while giving them a boost.

While in principle I like this idea (some kind of buff related to being in combat while keeping the mobility of Destruction), I don't think Ironjawz need any more encouragement towards MSU for combat.

They are already between a rock and a hard place where MSU Brutes means that the later units to attack will be severely depleted before they get to do anything (or put another way mid-sized Deathstars with stacked buffs crush MSU in melee, e.g. 30 Stormvermin with 2" reach over their 25mm bases, +1 attack each, -2 rend and Daemonic Power for rerolls). Whereas a larger block of Brutes means that the default command ability will likely fail (command ability that only works on a dice roll was such a bad decision) and they become so susceptible to Battleshock (let alone Bravery debuffs) that you have to use inspiring presence anyway.  

[KnightFire]

While in principle I like this idea (some kind of buff related to being in combat while keeping the mobility of Destruction), I don't think Ironjawz need any more encouragement towards MSU for combat.

They are already between a rock and a hard place where MSU Brutes means that the later units to attack will be severely depleted before they get to do anything (or put another way mid-sized Deathstars with stacked buffs crush MSU in melee, e.g. 30 Stormvermin with 2" reach over their 25mm bases, +1 attack each, -2 rend and Daemonic Power for rerolls). Whereas a larger block of Brutes means that the default command ability will likely fail (command ability that only works on a dice roll was such a bad decision) and they become so susceptible to Battleshock (let alone Bravery debuffs) that you have to use inspiring presence anyway.  

 

 

Yea, I see that, but wanted to stay away from something too close to the khorne mechanic of rewards for killing stuff.

 

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk