Badlander86 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I had an idea for a faction that would sort of replace Brettonia as the "Cavalry" faction of the game and give Araby a fair shake in terms of representation. Basically was thinking a faction based on Persian/Turkish/Arab historical dynasties (Omayyad, Ottoman, Safavid...etc) with light cavalry as their signature troop choice with smidges of fantasy elements littered about like Manticores as Behemoths and Djinn or Efreet as a sort of magical element of the faction. Throw out the Monotheism aspect of their real world couterparts and give them something like Animism, Ancestral Worship or Star Worship (Astrolatry) that makes them unique versus the worship of Chaos or Sigmar. I've personally always been a Kaiju fan, my favorite being Gamera and the though of maybe giant Turtles/Tortoises walking the deserts, treating it as a large beach because of how old they can grow and all they do is wander the desert looking for food and water. Imagine huge turtles as behemoths that can mount artillery pieces. Only problem with the idea is even if you want to make this faction Evil or Neutral, they'd end up under Order and I think there is just a glut of Order Factions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clan's Cynic Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Further to the post I made a while back on the Possessed thread, I would like a Battletome: Free Peoples akin to Legions of Nagash that cobbled together all of various- well, Free Peoples. Free Guild, Dispossessed, Wanderers and the like. The recent lore's been going the way of having the efforts to recolonise the realms being a multi-racial effort (Dwarf builders and the like) along with references to them defending their cities together in the Malign Portents articles. Plus, there would be something cathartic about most of the Old World range comprising it's own faction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCharisma Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 12 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said: Further to the post I made a while back on the Possessed thread, I would like a Battletome: Free Peoples akin to Legions of Nagash that cobbled together all of various- well, Free Peoples. Free Guild, Dispossessed, Wanderers and the like. The recent lore's been going the way of having the efforts to recolonise the realms being a multi-racial effort (Dwarf builders and the like) along with references to them defending their cities together in the Malign Portents articles. Plus, there would be something cathartic about most of the Old World range comprising it's own faction. 2 I feel like Firestorm was meant to do that, however; executed poorly. I could see a Battletome: Free Cities or sometime literally picking up these rules and tying together all the random and loose factions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barkanaut Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 How has GW not ripped off fremen from dune for exodites or an elf faction I don’t know. I think a human or elf faction that rides the sands on worms and giant insects would be cool. Kind of building off what you mentioned badlander. As for bad bad guys I want to see new beastclaw raider tribe style that focuses more on air power. Think of them flying in giant ice shooting birds of doom. Grot sky pirates also sound great. Also if GW reintroduces giants they should make them intelligent city builders to contrast with their more primitive ways. They forge more complicated gear than you would expect for a destruction faction. They could also throw an entire sharopenee tree like a javelin. Destruction needs more love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandano Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 With so many people thinking such similar things about Free People I would imagine that GW has had the thoughts also. Something similar to LoN based on Free Cities or home realms would be ideal I would think, a single battletome that allows for a seemingly wide variety of subfactions. I can imagine wild refugees similar to bloodreavers'/marauders' models and more established city folk like current Freeguild models. I had thought that maybe we would get an Order version of Slaves to Darkness with the Free People being allowed to 'mark' for existing factions but what you all have said about the Free Cities rings a little more plausible to me. Nice work guys, good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCharisma Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I get the feeling that Free People as a faction will span across Order, Destruction and Death... with the most comprehensive builds, depending on the Realm or GA it fits under. There is no reason that the humans have to ONLY sit under Order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirjava13 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I've been thinking about the inherent limitations of Destruction the last week or so, trying to invent some sort of semi Celtic themed human faction, imagining that they were inadvertently saved from Chaos by a rampaging Orruk tribe that happened to beat up the marauders instead of them and took on the worship of Gorkamorka themselves- no details settled on apart from the aesthetic (woad is cool!) and something involving bears, because frankly we just don't have enough bears in Warhammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorthaur Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 4 hours ago, Barkanaut said: How has GW not ripped off fremen from dune for exodites or an elf faction I don’t know. I think a human or elf faction that rides the sands on worms and giant insects would be cool. Kind of building off what you mentioned badlander. As for bad bad guys I want to see new beastclaw raider tribe style that focuses more on air power. Think of them flying in giant ice shooting birds of doom. Grot sky pirates also sound great. Also if GW reintroduces giants they should make them intelligent city builders to contrast with their more primitive ways. They forge more complicated gear than you would expect for a destruction faction. They could also throw an entire sharopenee tree like a javelin. Destruction needs more love. Aren't the Van Saar gang heavily inspired from Dune's fremen? I think that may have been a thing some time ago. As far as grots go i've always had a weakness for night goblins but if they took the fungus thing to an extreme like with the newer hq model i'd be interested. There is a certain special nosalgia when it comes to night gobbos maybe it has something to do with the skull pass nostalgia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 12 hours ago, Greyshadow said: While I am sure GW takes copyright very seriously, artists and designers value creativity and originality. I remember the Warhammer wikipedia page described the Old World setting as 'highly derivative'. GW trying to create something original and unique isn't necessarily a bad thing. I think it's quite hard to do a completely new kind of "sword and sorcery" type men, without taking a lot of influences from history and other fantasy/sci-fi themes. A lot has been done before and there is also the side that the customers (i.e. us) will want to have something that they can recognize on some level. For example the Kharadrons, they are a new direction in Warhammer, but nothing new in the grand scheme of things. Or the Rohan and Minas Tirith mentioned before in the thread. Both have a lot of influences on actual history, which has been mishmashed to form a seemingly new fantasy style men. Good way is to use historical influences that are not so visible. The old high elves are very heavily influenced by ancient Greco-Roman armies in their composition and unit types, but they have been mixed some additional components taken from Persia, China and Japan and topped with the "egghelms" and the result was both original and succesful. If I think about an elven army for any sort of setting, it's always the old Warhammer high elves that come to my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyshadow Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 13 minutes ago, Jamopower said: I think it's quite hard to do a completely new kind of "sword and sorcery" ... without taking a lot of influences from history and other fantasy/sci-fi themes. A lot has been done before and there is also the side that the customers (i.e. us) will want to have something that they can recognize on some level. I couldn't agree more Jamopower and that's what I love about John Blanche's and GW's work. John and the other artists draw on the history of humankind in ways that resonate, even when we might not be able to recall where we have seen the imagery before. Kharadron Overlords are an excellent example of this and they certainly resonate with me - I absolutely love 'em. I would also say that they are quite unique - the ideas they are comprised of may be old but they are blended together in a way that is fresh and new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Yeah, the GW design team is very good in generating the new concepts from variety of influences. I love the Jes Goodwin's sketches that were featured in White dwarf from time to time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 6 hours ago, MrCharisma said: I get the feeling that Free People as a faction will span across Order, Destruction and Death... with the most comprehensive builds, depending on the Realm or GA it fits under. There is no reason that the humans have to ONLY sit under Order. Well there are humans everywhere really... I mean Chaos has them, we have narrative confirmation that Death has them and for Destruction I think it might be the only place where they arn't part of it (yet). By large because I feel Ogres fill that role, Maneaters in particular. But the 'Free People/Guilds/Cities' themselves are linked to Order. I think that for Chaos we are save to say that Darkoath will be the Chaos equivelant and for Death we don't have a real name yet as far as I know. On the discussion of Free People/Guild/Cities I do think it would be really nice to have one Order book that indeed covers the mix of races. Would make sence too because it would certainly appeal to a specific genre of fantasy fans, especially the DND kind that likes the mixed races groups/guilds or in AoS' case armies. Much like a "Fellowship of the Ring" but logically upsized. We will have to see how GW decides to flesh it all out however, there are many, many roads to go and all can lead to some awesome options. I even think that GW purposefully doesn't flesh out everything yet due to leaving creative ideas as an option... To give an example, if we will see Deep Sea Aelves that arn't linked to Malerion but something different it's again something completely new. I'm not opposed to it, I can see the pro and con of not fleshing out everything for the readers yet. The biggest pro being a suprised audience and third parties not being able to hook into this. "Finished worlds" have the downside of having everything on paper and as GW knows now if a third party decides to recreate those ideas they arn't ****** part of GW's IP either... The only constant we do have is that all newer fantasy aesthetics of Age of Sigmar fit the fantasy turned up to 11. Meaning that real new content will indeed fall more under Mythology/comic designs as Historical Fantasy/real life series Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorimant Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share Posted February 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Jamopower said: I think it's quite hard to do a completely new kind of "sword and sorcery" type men, without taking a lot of influences from history and other fantasy/sci-fi themes. I completely agree. It's the old Harold Bloom line of Yeats 'misreading' Keats and producing something new in response. No-one creates anything in a vacuum, but good artists and designers recombine the elements of the old with their own originality. The Kharadron Overlords are a great example of this, steampunk dwarfs flying around with what really sound like Buck Rogers ray guns. Or Troll Slayers take a slight step to the side and become intensely religious and psychotic dwarves from the Nibelungenlied, with just a touch of Babylon in their make-up. No one part of the design is original, but taken as a whole, it becomes a bit more interesting. In the picture of the Aelven Gods, T&T are fairly unchanged so maybe the core of Hyshian Aelves will be unchanged, but maybe exaggerated and folded in with some other elements. If we're expecting Aelven Angels, maybe we're not looking at Catholic-style angels but something more from Persia and Iran? Similarly, one reason I would hope for Settra (if not Tomb Kings) to return is that it makes Death multi-polar rather than just Nagash & Co. And with the cutting of the link to the Old World, they can properly develop the theme and take more from the mythology of the region rather than just the trappings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 @Dorimant I largely agree. I think the most important thing to realize is that Games Workshop will not just ship away/remove most of their WFB content that can logically appear in Age of Sigmar also. What I mean by this is that newer and dynamic sculpts will simply remain because they fit the aestethic Games Workshop wants to sell. Best example of this can also be found in the WFB/AoS blended lines. Most of these lines are found in Chaos, Death and Destruction but Daughters of Khaine and Seraphon are perfect examples of massive parts of WFB lines directly being ported over to AoS. In terms of what this will mean for new 'High Elves' I really think the best guess can be made by looking at the models again. If GW deems it good quality it will be incorporated in the new design. I believe to date that for Sylvaneth a part 2 will eventually come that fleshes out the Wanderers more. Their sculpts remain immensely dynamic and again this is the "Age of Sigmar standard". Likewise I believe that part of the reason why Tomb Kings and Brettonia where removed was sales + a largely outdated design. Offcourse Tomb Kings had some newer massively awesome stuff also, notably the Sphinx, but their Undead looks very different from the Legions of Nagash Undead. So IF they will return I think they will return with a whole new design indeed. With perhaps only the newer Sphinx remaining the same and basically re-appearing again. What we see currently is that GW is testing the water with re-releases in scenery allready. I think for armies they will do this too, eventually and when they feel like the time is right. I mean in the end there is absolutely no hurry for GW to release it all in one month/year, in fact that would likely hurt sales more than anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menkeroth Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 3 hours ago, Jamopower said: A lot has been done before and there is also the side that the customers (i.e. us) will want to have something that they can recognize on some level Until they get something they can't recognize which later becomes the norm and fewer and fewer people remember that it's something completely new. Like it was with green orcs and goblins, vampires in gothic plate segmented armor or the whole "orcs always ride wolves into battle"theme started with the LotR and having become the norm with the DnD. And it's not even mentioning the fact that nobody ever remembers that elves, dwarves and the like before Tolkien were completely different beings and yet his remaking of all that stuff was so successful despite being new and unrecognizable it became the norm and everyone copypasts it over and over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Yeah I'd say fantasy turned up to eleven has become the new norm, pretty much since Blizzard's World of Warcraft. Which is the 2000's era. For sure GW isn't simply copying that but I do believe that the fantasy genre game has become much more adapt to accepting extreme visual designs. Just to give another example, HATE is designed directly in the extremely detailed designs of Adrian Smith and Adrian has worked a lot with Games Workshop in the past also. So if anything I'd say we see ourselves drifting away from historical inspired fantasy designs. Where the idea was to have a fantasy twist but nothing too extreme. However I'd also say that Tolkien probably went this historical route for others to accept fantasy more. As just like with Age of Sigmar a lot of players think fantasy design X or Y is 'crazy' because it doesn't abide to the regular laws of nature. But the thing is really that GW creates their own stuff now with influences from everywhere. Again I can only state that I am happy with the way AoS is going. The thing to keep in mind is that GW will not simply delete all WFB history either, which makes it a nice blend of everything, something truely new. Ultimately I also think GW will adopt all kinds of fantasy styles in Age of Sigmar because it's not impossible to go that route in Age of Sigmar. The "wildest designs" also show up the "wildest Realms". -- For those that know the Berserk anime/manga, I think the shift you see in that manga from going historical fantasy to epic fantasy is also what Games Workshop will have applied in Age of Sigmar ultimately. In the sence that there will be factions more akin to historical fantasy and factions much more related to epic fantasy. Though for now I think GW will keep working with the epic fantasy designs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menkeroth Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 10 minutes ago, Killax said: Yeah I'd say fantasy turned up to eleven has become the new norm, pretty much since Blizzard's World of Warcraft. Which is the 2000's era. No, not really. It all started with the introduction of Ravenloft and Dark Sun in DnD and massively continued with the whole Magic the Gathering setting which is the base for all modern high fantasy. And all of this was long before 2000s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 40 minutes ago, Menkeroth said: Until they get something they can't recognize which later becomes the norm and fewer and fewer people remember that it's something completely new. Like it was with green orcs and goblins, vampires in gothic plate segmented armor or the whole "orcs always ride wolves into battle"theme started with the LotR and having become the norm with the DnD. And it's not even mentioning the fact that nobody ever remembers that elves, dwarves and the like before Tolkien were completely different beings and yet his remaking of all that stuff was so successful despite being new and unrecognizable it became the norm and everyone copypasts it over and over again. Well I was thinking more along the lines, that people expect their regular humans to be armed with swords or spears and wearing plate or chainmail, not with steam powered machine guns and stetsons or some of the more outlandish stuff from the Magic the Gathering card art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menkeroth Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Some - maybe, but not all, and anyway it's the problem of people, not the setting. And even then people may be waiting for something like that but later it becomes and the norm and they start to wait for similar things - after all, people are so easily manipulated... Like after 40k many will be sure your humans must be super soldier in power armor, and we indeed see it in many other games and settings after 40k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 But in 40k, the regular humans are also quite regular soldiers. The Cadians are very vanilla sci-fi soldiers along the lines of Starship troopers and such, and the other regiments are quite directly derived from popular culture / historical reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menkeroth Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 They are way less popular than SM, which is expectable, and no more since the Astra Militarum release back in the day, really. Regular humans have been long ago already eclipsed by the AM special forces soldiers, and all the other races are not derived directly from anything, and the further, the more they become much less derived from popular culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DantePQ Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 9 hours ago, MrCharisma said: I get the feeling that Free People as a faction will span across Order, Destruction and Death... with the most comprehensive builds, depending on the Realm or GA it fits under. There is no reason that the humans have to ONLY sit under Order. And why not Chaos ? I think that't would be an awesome idea for a Free Cities BT that has Allegiance Abilities, Traites etc for 4 GA, very fluffy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorimant Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share Posted February 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Killax said: However I'd also say that Tolkien probably went this historical route for others to accept fantasy more. To be fair, Tolkien was explicitly myth-making and the four big novels are at the 'Death of Magic' ends of the myth cycle. The earlier history is a lot more out-there with demon spiders from beyond reality, lost kings murdering trolls by the score, and flights of Balrog. In comparison, I'd guess that AoS is somewhere between the two, the Age of Legends is over but being almost literally made of magic is unlikely to have a death of magic era. 1 hour ago, Killax said: Ultimately I also think GW will adopt all kinds of fantasy styles in Age of Sigmar because it's not impossible to go that route in Age of Sigmar. Is there any fantasy style that you think they won't include? Weird Western? Wuxia? Mecha? 12 minutes ago, DantePQ said: And why not Chaos ? Wouldn't they end up becoming Bloodreavers, Rotbringers and Arcanites though? Chaos doesn't seem to naturally promote cities and an infrastructure that could support Free Guilds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 31 minutes ago, Menkeroth said: They are way less popular than SM, which is expectable, and no more since the Astra Militarum release back in the day, really. Regular humans have been long ago already eclipsed by the AM special forces soldiers, and all the other races are not derived directly from anything, and the further, the more they become much less derived from popular culture. But they are still there, creating the base line. Just like in AoS, the Stormcast are the poster boys, but the free peoples are the "common men" to give perspective on the more exotic stuff. I believe that in any case, because we happen to be human, there is always a market for the "regular men" in fantasy and sci-fi settings and for them, there are some expectations what they generally look like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyriakin Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Tolkien was a professor of Anglo Saxon history at Oxford University, and actually translated Beowulf. Most of his influences would have been derived from Germanic and/or Nordic myths from the pre-Christian era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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