Lets Chat: Legions of Nagash

[lare2]

Played my first game with the new book yesterday. Nagash absolutely wrecked everything. By himself, he killed Durthu, Drycha, 2 units of stabby hunters, a treelord and a unit of dryads. He was unbelievable. 

In contrast, the skellies I had died in their droves. Regeneration did nothing to stop a unit of 40 disappearing to a double turn and drycha's anti-horde bomb. Suppose it was a couple of turns in which they caused a distraction.  

Due to still learning the new ropes, I ran my pre-LoN list:

Grand Host/Deathmarch 

Nagash (orb, soul harvest, vile transference) 

Necromancer (overwhelming dread, timeglass thingymabob - was awesome) 

Wight King with Black Axe (shouty mantle thingy - worked great against weakened Sylvaneth bravery)

40 Skellies (spears)

2x10 Skellies (swords) 

10 Grave Guard (big stabby swords) 

10 Black Knights (black knights are now immense - they went on a rampage the length and breadth of the board) 

I lost the game but only because of not really paying attention to the objectives in the first turn... was too excited messing around with graveyards. When the game ended, he had a unit of shooty hunters and dryads. 

Really happy with how it went. 

 

[Cerlin]

45 minutes ago, lare2 said:

 

In contrast, the skellies I had died in their droves. Regeneration did nothing to stop a unit of 40 disappearing to a double turn and drycha's anti-horde bomb. Suppose it was a couple of turns in which they caused a distraction.  

 

 

Drycha is a hard counter to hordes. I play against her all the time, either delete her, or accept the losses.

[lare2]

11 minutes ago, Cerlin said:

Drycha is a hard counter to hordes. I play against her all the time, either delete her, or accept the losses.

It's only the second time I've come across her and the first time she was used by someone who knows what they're doing. Lessons were definitely learned. 

[Thostos]

5 hours ago, Malakithe said:

What were the lists?

 My list-

  Nagash-Overwhelming Dread/Spirit Gale/Vile Transference

  2x Morghast Archi

 40xSpear Skeletons

10xSnB Skeletons

5xBK`s

15 DIre Wolves

5x Hexwraiths

FIrst Cohort-160

 

 His list-(as best I can tell)

 LoC

Tzangor Shaman on disc

Gaunt Summoner w/familiars

20 Tzangors

10x Pinks

10xPinks

9x Skyfires

 Balewind-for Gaunt and his dbl range "wreck 1/2 of your large block unit per turn spell"

 

   We played the second scenario from the Portents book,,long board,no objectives just get units into enemy territory.We also used porten points(2nd game for me using them,,love the concept)
  I only had 3 drops and he had like 7..I did take first turn in this case even though this army really benifits from letting the opponent go first and hoping for the double turn.Anyhow in this matchup with the Balewind effect pretty much a garanteed thing with fate dice and all that,,I figured I needed to get his command ability up and running,throw down a shield on Nagash and then press forward on my path to getting shot off the board since im playing a non shooting army.We started 24" apart and he naturally started the Guant a fair distance into his backfield knowing how it had to play out.I moved Nagash up into counter range of his LoC but the others were still too far back.He did as expected and shot exactly half of the models in my skellie block off the board,threw out some buff spells on his Tzangors and pressed them forward,Skyfires unloaded on my Hexwraiths while moving to maintain position just out of Nagash cast range,,suprisingly he rolled poorly and the Hexies survived(4+ ignor rend rr 1s is nice for a save)He shot the LoC`s ranged ability at the BKs took out a couple then shot one more off with one unit of pinks,the other pink unit took out a Wolf.Then failed charge on the BKS.

 Turn two,I maintain initiative,and at this point,had I not I probably would have just conceeded as another round with him in control would have no doubt ended up with me loosing the skeletons,Hexwratihs and BKs.I regrew up to 28 on the skellies,brought back a BK and all 3 of my Hex`s make it back.Now im in range of the LoC so I need to watch it with casting so he doesnt steal a spell with fates,then "learn it".I successfully shield up on Nagash(could have dont the Morghasts here but im sure all of his skyfires would have hit Nagash then)get a debuff off on his Pinks as they were in range butt the Tzangors were just out of range(I was angling to move around his flank opposite the Tzangors).Get the spell off with a total roll of 13,,he declines to counter,heh.Keep in mind I was just out of range of debuffing the Skyfires,there was no way that starting at 24" apart and Nagashs movement of 9" I could have gotten a charge off first turn to do so,,even with Pinions and a best case scenario I would need to succeed at a 10" charge to get into his lines and thus counterspell range,,and early on against tzeench,due to fate dice they WILL be getting off their important spells.Not to mention even if I did get the long charge off,it was highly unlikely the Morghasts would have made theirs to stay within LoS range.Anyhow,I did get my BKs to charge into the pinks,as well as my wolves into the second batch of Pinks.Pushed Nagash up into charge postion on the LoC,only needed a 7" charge,,failed.Got Hexs into the tzangors.Combat went fairly well with the lead group of pinks getting wiped out and a fair amount of Tzangors going down,though they were inspired from his first turn so the losses from battleshock didnt happen.His turn two,he wasnt as successful with his casting as I did get some dispells off and he failed on his casting for the Gaunts nuke spell.though between the LoC`s shooting attack and the skyfires,he did nuke my Morghasts,he also charged the skyfires into the skellies,in combat finsihed them off and his tzangors went to town on the Hexwraiths taking out 3.Pinks didnt do much and my wolves took out a couple on the right side.

 Turn 3 he gains initiative,,but at this point we called it,as time was running out for our session but it was clear I was running out of units rather quickly and was looking to loose Hexwraiths ,the last few BKs and probably half of the wolves,leaving Nagash in the center/right alone...Had I maintained initiative this time I would have been able to get a shot at a debuff on his Skyfires,possibly even two off with a good Spirit Gale roll,but he did have several fate dice remianing so I would have needed to roll above par for sure.Even still with dwindling units and him being able to regrow models back to his Tzangors through some shaman spell cheese,,it was pretty hopeless .

I wouldnt call this matchup a "bad matchup" I would say it was more in the categorie of "outclassed",Tzeentch is just stupid in this game now with the ability to choose dice rolls with fate dice,great shooting,solid melee screens and reasonably priced units,they literally have it all were many other armies are lacking in at least on of the above categories.

 

[smucreo]

I'm playing my own game vs Tzeetnch this friday, vs Changehost. I'll be telling you about it after the fact, but for now here's the list I was planning on bringing:

Legion of Night:

VLoZD (General) - 440

- Merciless Hunter w/ Vial of Pure Blood

- Vile Transference

Vampire Lord (Flying) - 140

- In ambush

- Amethystine Pinions

Vampire Lord (Flying) - 140

- Amarathine Orb

2x2 Morghast Harbingers in ambush - 440

40 x Skeletons in gravesite - 280

2x10 Direwolves to fill batteline - 240

Terrorgheist to further improve the threat coming from the front

1980/2000

The idea is to threaten all sides of the board so the LoC can't feel safe anywhere, even if he switches places. The skellies can come from the gravesites by the vamp lord in front or the one ambushing, the Morghast are there to hunt down key heroes, and the VLoZD and the Terrorgheist offer a huge threat from the front as well. We'll see how it goes!

[Malakithe]

3 hours ago, lare2 said:

Played my first game with the new book yesterday. Nagash absolutely wrecked everything. By himself, he killed Durthu, Drycha, 2 units of stabby hunters, a treelord and a unit of dryads. He was unbelievable. 

In contrast, the skellies I had died in their droves. Regeneration did nothing to stop a unit of 40 disappearing to a double turn and drycha's anti-horde bomb. Suppose it was a couple of turns in which they caused a distraction.  

Due to still learning the new ropes, I ran my pre-LoN list:

Grand Host/Deathmarch 

Nagash (orb, soul harvest, vile transference) 

Necromancer (overwhelming dread, timeglass thingymabob - was awesome) 

Wight King with Black Axe (shouty mantle thingy - worked great against weakened Sylvaneth bravery)

40 Skellies (spears)

2x10 Skellies (swords) 

10 Grave Guard (big stabby swords) 

10 Black Knights (black knights are now immense - they went on a rampage the length and breadth of the board) 

I lost the game but only because of not really paying attention to the objectives in the first turn... was too excited messing around with graveyards. When the game ended, he had a unit of shooty hunters and dryads. 

Really happy with how it went. 

 

Im guessing you took Deathmarch? Next time put Dread with Nagash so it survives 

[Malakithe]

46 minutes ago, smucreo said:

I'm playing my own game vs Tzeetnch this friday, vs Changehost. I'll be telling you about it after the fact, but for now here's the list I was planning on bringing:

Legion of Night:

VLoZD (General) - 440

- Merciless Hunter w/ Vial of Pure Blood

- Vile Transference

Vampire Lord (Flying) - 140

- In ambush

- Amethystine Pinions

Vampire Lord (Flying) - 140

- Amarathine Orb

2x2 Morghast Harbingers in ambush - 440

40 x Skeletons in gravesite - 280

2x10 Direwolves to fill batteline - 240

Terrorgheist to further improve the threat coming from the front

1980/2000

ç

The idea is to threaten all sides of the board so the LoC can't feel safe anywhere, even if he switches places. The skellies can come from the gravesites by the vamp lord in front or the one ambushing, the Morghast are there to hunt down key heroes, and the VLoZD and the Terrorgheist offer a huge threat from the front as well. We'll see how it goes!

Fear is a good tactic. You might be able to force your oppenents to castle up or move where you want. Between gravesites and ambush thats a lot of options

[swarmofseals]

1 hour ago, Thostos said:

 tzeentch stuff

 

I wouldn't be so quick to throw in the towel. There's a lot of stuff you could do to dramatically improve your matchup against that list. You were also playing a weird scenario with very different objectives from the usual. 

 

On a completely different note, I know everyone is dismissing the Mourngul (and are probably correct to do so) but I do feel contractually obligated to point out that they didn't change the wording on it's ethereal ability. It still gets positive bonuses. Thus it's actually pretty easy to get the Mourngul to a 2+ reroll 1's unrendable save with either Nagash or the Coven Throne command ability. It dies badly to mortal wounds now but has the potential to be totally OP against any army that can't output a lot of mortals. 

The big problem, of course, is that it can't be included in a Legion list. If that changes I think the Mourngul is still quite playable even though it will have a huge delta from matchup to matchup. 

[Thostos]

1 minute ago, swarmofseals said:

I wouldn't be so quick to throw in the towel. There's a lot of stuff you could do to dramatically improve your matchup against that list. You were also playing a weird scenario with very different objectives from the usual. 

 

On a completely different note, I know everyone is dismissing the Mourngul (and are probably correct to do so) but I do feel contractually obligated to point out that they didn't change the wording on it's ethereal ability. It still gets positive bonuses. Thus it's actually pretty easy to get the Mourngul to a 2+ reroll 1's unrendable save with either Nagash or the Coven Throne command ability. It dies badly to mortal wounds now but has the potential to be totally OP against any army that can't output a lot of mortals. 

The big problem, of course, is that it can't be included in a Legion list. If that changes I think the Mourngul is still quite playable even though it will have a huge delta from matchup to matchup. 

  Yeah,,true,and going with a Legion of Night list along the lines of what Smucreo posted above would certainly be a better matchup.Though I have had some success with Nagash vs Kunning Rukk,,pretty much destroyed it even..and I havent had a chance to run against Vangaurd or Aetherwing yet,probably going to at next weeks tourney though,heh.
  I think Nagash is still the most expensive model in the game but even in the new book hes probably still over costed considering were the overal meta sits now.I will still run this list in more casual games but I need to rework to Night or Sacrament for a more hardcore competative army.Still an uphill battle against TZ`s though.

 

[Iradekhorne]

Legion of night is really good bcause his mobility, inclusive they can drop skeletons on gravesites, then they can also appear on the middle of the map with a horde of skeletons and also with the 3 units.... so good.

Guys, i have one question abount legion of blood.

The dragon of the vampire lord on zombie dragon, gain also +1 attack with his maw, or his sword-like claws on a legion of blood army?

If they do, i think the prince vholdrai looses a lot vs vampire lord on zombie dragon, bcause Prince Vholdrai haven't the "vampire lord" keyword.

Losses +1 atack with the lance is bad, but he loses a lot if the zombie dragon of the  vampire lord win attacks and not him.

[Malakithe]

42 minutes ago, Iradekhorne said:

Legion of night is really good bcause his mobility, inclusive they can drop skeletons on gravesites, then they can also appear on the middle of the map with a horde of skeletons and also with the 3 units.... so good.

Guys, i have one question abount legion of blood.

The dragon of the vampire lord on zombie dragon, gain also +1 attack with his maw, or his sword-like claws on a legion of blood army?

If they do, i think the prince vholdrai looses a lot vs vampire lord on zombie dragon, bcause Prince Vholdrai haven't the "vampire lord" keyword.

Losses +1 atack with the lance is bad, but he loses a lot if the zombie dragon of the  vampire lord win attacks and not him.

the VLoZD gains +1 to attacks for all weapons on the profile

[Kugane]

Would there be any point to take mannfred as a beatstick along with the VLoZD? (Using the VL as general)

[Andreas]

7 minutes ago, Kugane said:

Would there be any point to take mannfred as a beatstick along with the VLoZD? (Using the VL as general)

Well it would be illegal. ?

If Mannfred is in a Night army he is the general of course.

[Kugane]

6 minutes ago, Andreas said:

Well it would be illegal. ?

If Mannfred is in a Night army he is the general of course.

I see! I went to buy the battletome after your comment. (I was going off references up until now) Time to read this thing!

[AverageBoss]

It could be done in a Grand Host list though. But Manfred probably wants that ambush.

[RaritanAnon]

2 minutes ago, AverageBoss said:

It could be done in a Grand Host list though. But Manfred probably wants that ambush.

Night does sound like the most competitive list to take, all around. 

[Malakithe]

Yeah perhaps...the ambush is good to get some scary things up front. Or even protect against a first turn beat down. As far as monstrous beat sticks im not sure if Manny would be better then a VLoZD. The only real advantage Manny has is the ability to cast two spells and pick from Deathmages

[Tidings]

2 hours ago, Iradekhorne said:

The dragon of the vampire lord on zombie dragon, gain also +1 attack with his maw, or his sword-like claws on a legion of blood army?

If they do, i think the prince vholdrai looses a lot vs vampire lord on zombie dragon, bcause Prince Vholdrai haven't the "vampire lord" keyword.

Losses +1 atack with the lance is bad, but he loses a lot if the zombie dragon of the  vampire lord win attacks and not him.

Dragon gets the +1 attacks too. It's not a command ability or artifact; it's a command trait from the allegiance, so the bonus isn't restricted to the rider. 

I think Vholdrai is totally viable in a legion of blood army if he's the general. Tested one game with it and he was incredible. Making another VLoZD pile in and attack during the hero phase is like having an extra dragon for free (in terms of damage output). He also provides steady mortal wounds which is nice.

If he's not your general though, yeah I agree he's totally not worth taking over a regular VLoZD. 

[bolderiz101]

5 hours ago, Thostos said:

 My list-

  Nagash-Overwhelming Dread/Spirit Gale/Vile Transference

  2x Morghast Archi

 40xSpear Skeletons

10xSnB Skeletons

5xBK`s

15 DIre Wolves

5x Hexwraiths

FIrst Cohort-160

 

 His list-(as best I can tell)

 LoC

Tzangor Shaman on disc

Gaunt Summoner w/familiars

20 Tzangors

10x Pinks

10xPinks

9x Skyfires

 Balewind-for Gaunt and his dbl range "wreck 1/2 of your large block unit per turn spell"

 

   We played the second scenario from the Portents book,,long board,no objectives just get units into enemy territory.We also used porten points(2nd game for me using them,,love the concept)
  I only had 3 drops and he had like 7..I did take first turn in this case even though this army really benifits from letting the opponent go first and hoping for the double turn.Anyhow in this matchup with the Balewind effect pretty much a garanteed thing with fate dice and all that,,I figured I needed to get his command ability up and running,throw down a shield on Nagash and then press forward on my path to getting shot off the board since im playing a non shooting army.We started 24" apart and he naturally started the Guant a fair distance into his backfield knowing how it had to play out.I moved Nagash up into counter range of his LoC but the others were still too far back.He did as expected and shot exactly half of the models in my skellie block off the board,threw out some buff spells on his Tzangors and pressed them forward,Skyfires unloaded on my Hexwraiths while moving to maintain position just out of Nagash cast range,,suprisingly he rolled poorly and the Hexies survived(4+ ignor rend rr 1s is nice for a save)He shot the LoC`s ranged ability at the BKs took out a couple then shot one more off with one unit of pinks,the other pink unit took out a Wolf.Then failed charge on the BKS.

 Turn two,I maintain initiative,and at this point,had I not I probably would have just conceeded as another round with him in control would have no doubt ended up with me loosing the skeletons,Hexwratihs and BKs.I regrew up to 28 on the skellies,brought back a BK and all 3 of my Hex`s make it back.Now im in range of the LoC so I need to watch it with casting so he doesnt steal a spell with fates,then "learn it".I successfully shield up on Nagash(could have dont the Morghasts here but im sure all of his skyfires would have hit Nagash then)get a debuff off on his Pinks as they were in range butt the Tzangors were just out of range(I was angling to move around his flank opposite the Tzangors).Get the spell off with a total roll of 13,,he declines to counter,heh.Keep in mind I was just out of range of debuffing the Skyfires,there was no way that starting at 24" apart and Nagashs movement of 9" I could have gotten a charge off first turn to do so,,even with Pinions and a best case scenario I would need to succeed at a 10" charge to get into his lines and thus counterspell range,,and early on against tzeench,due to fate dice they WILL be getting off their important spells.Not to mention even if I did get the long charge off,it was highly unlikely the Morghasts would have made theirs to stay within LoS range.Anyhow,I did get my BKs to charge into the pinks,as well as my wolves into the second batch of Pinks.Pushed Nagash up into charge postion on the LoC,only needed a 7" charge,,failed.Got Hexs into the tzangors.Combat went fairly well with the lead group of pinks getting wiped out and a fair amount of Tzangors going down,though they were inspired from his first turn so the losses from battleshock didnt happen.His turn two,he wasnt as successful with his casting as I did get some dispells off and he failed on his casting for the Gaunts nuke spell.though between the LoC`s shooting attack and the skyfires,he did nuke my Morghasts,he also charged the skyfires into the skellies,in combat finsihed them off and his tzangors went to town on the Hexwraiths taking out 3.Pinks didnt do much and my wolves took out a couple on the right side.

 Turn 3 he gains initiative,,but at this point we called it,as time was running out for our session but it was clear I was running out of units rather quickly and was looking to loose Hexwraiths ,the last few BKs and probably half of the wolves,leaving Nagash in the center/right alone...Had I maintained initiative this time I would have been able to get a shot at a debuff on his Skyfires,possibly even two off with a good Spirit Gale roll,but he did have several fate dice remianing so I would have needed to roll above par for sure.Even still with dwindling units and him being able to regrow models back to his Tzangors through some shaman spell cheese,,it was pretty hopeless .

I wouldnt call this matchup a "bad matchup" I would say it was more in the categorie of "outclassed",Tzeentch is just stupid in this game now with the ability to choose dice rolls with fate dice,great shooting,solid melee screens and reasonably priced units,they literally have it all were many other armies are lacking in at least on of the above categories.

 

you shoiuld have let him take the first turn so you can double turn and get some respawn for free in YOUR first turn

once nagash is in 18 of gaunt gaunt will be kinda useless if you still have +3 to dispell

you should run some morghast to pass the wound

I hate tzeentch

[BURF1]

55 minutes ago, Tidings said:

Dragon gets the +1 attacks too. It's not a command ability or artifact; it's a command trait from the allegiance, so the bonus isn't restricted to the rider. 

I think Vholdrai is totally viable in a legion of blood army if he's the general. Tested one game with it and he was incredible. Making another VLoZD pile in and attack during the hero phase is like having an extra dragon for free (in terms of damage output). He also provides steady mortal wounds which is nice.

If he's not your general though, yeah I agree he's totally not worth taking over a regular VLoZD. 

For me it's the opposite, he's only worth it if he's NOT the general. Even with +1 attack the VLoZD doesn't match Vhordrai in damage output once Vhordrai has quickblood on. Vhordrai does 14.6 damage to a 4+ save not on the charge VS a Blood VLoZD's 9.82. This means that if you lose Vhordrai you're losing a ridiculous amount of your offense. If the VLoZD was general you'd be upping his own damage output to nearly the level Vhordrai's command ability does (15.114 vs 19.64) while also being able to benefit from LoB's AMAZING command traits AND not being particularly dependent on either of the VLoZD's over the other.

Taking 2 VLoZD dragon's isn't even on the table, unbuffed Vhordrai is massively superior even in LoB.

[swarmofseals]

I've said this in the thread previously, but Vhordrai as a non-general is a solid option even in Legion of Blood. Comparing with VLoZD with no abilities affecting either model:

VLOZD: 10.66 rend 1, 4.67 rend 2

Vhordrai: 4.67 rend 1, 8.83 rend 2

As rend 2 damage is quite a bit more valuable than rend 1 I think they are close to a wash with probably a slight advantage to Vhordrai. Vhordrai also has a tremendously better breath weapon, and he only costs 40 points more.

The real difference is the spell though. With Quickblood active Vhordrai gains a ton of punch. Compare Quickblood Vhordrai to VLoZD using his own command ability on himself:

VLOZD: 15.12 rend 1, 7 rend 2

Vhordrai: 7.78 rend 1, 14.16 rend 2

Here I think Vhordrai get's a little better, although it's still close.

But the real kicker: adding on the Coven Throne command ability, which combines insanely well with Vhordrai:

Vhordrai with CT command and Quickblood: 10.7 rend 1, 19.55 rend 2

That's an insane amount of rend 2 damage. 

 

So yeah, I'd say in Legion of Blood it's totally viable to go with just VLoZD, just Vhordrai, both with Vhordrai as the general or Vhordrai with Coven Throne as the general. I think it's harder to justify taking both with VLoZD as general or VLoZD with Coven Throne as general. 

[BURF1]

15 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:

I've said this in the thread previously, but Vhordrai as a non-general is a solid option even in Legion of Blood. Comparing with VLoZD with no abilities affecting either model:

VLOZD: 10.66 rend 1, 4.67 rend 2

Vhordrai: 4.67 rend 1, 8.83 rend 2

As rend 2 damage is quite a bit more valuable than rend 1 I think they are close to a wash with probably a slight advantage to Vhordrai. Vhordrai also has a tremendously better breath weapon, and he only costs 40 points more.

The real difference is the spell though. With Quickblood active Vhordrai gains a ton of punch. Compare Quickblood Vhordrai to VLoZD using his own command ability on himself:

VLOZD: 15.12 rend 1, 7 rend 2

Vhordrai: 7.78 rend 1, 14.16 rend 2

Here I think Vhordrai get's a little better, although it's still close.

But the real kicker: adding on the Coven Throne command ability, which combines insanely well with Vhordrai:

Vhordrai with CT command and Quickblood: 10.7 rend 1, 19.55 rend 2

That's an insane amount of rend 2 damage. 

 

So yeah, I'd say in Legion of Blood it's totally viable to go with just VLoZD, just Vhordrai, both with Vhordrai as the general or Vhordrai with Coven Throne as the general. I think it's harder to justify taking both with VLoZD as general or VLoZD with Coven Throne as general. 

Keep in mind what happens when you lose the big pieces when you have them buffing each other instead of themselves. Taking Vhordrai as General in double dragon list just means that if your opponent focuses down Vhordrai not only do you lose 480 pts but your remaining ZD character is actually pretty poor.  Taking a coven throne means that I can kill either the coven throne or the dragon and heavily reduce your output, far beyond what losing those pieces individually should do.

Personally, Vhordrai or CT as general seems like a high-roll gimmick. If everything goes perfectly you'll decimate, one thing goes wrong and it all falls apart. Taking the VLoZD as general is the safer, less vulnerable option in exchange for slightly less top-end output.

[Tidings]

Lotta great and interesting points, can't wait to play more trying all this out!

[lare2]

5 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Im guessing you took Deathmarch? Next time put Dread with Nagash so it survives

That I did - uhmed and ahed over the benefits with the new rules but thought I'd give it a run out. Still not decided if it's worth it yet. On the one hand, dropping most of your army in 1 is lovely but on the other, the movement and regeneration benefits are negligible now. You do get an extra artefact as well though. 

Dread survived the whole game, as did the necromancer. I gave it to him as I decided it was the main spell I could afford to lose. 

[Thostos]

2 hours ago, bolderiz101 said:

you shoiuld have let him take the first turn so you can double turn and get some respawn for free in YOUR first turn

once nagash is in 18 of gaunt gaunt will be kinda useless if you still have +3 to dispell

you should run some morghast to pass the wound

I hate tzeentch

Rem,,I noted that he killed half my skellies with the guants nuke from the balewind in his first turn,,had he gone first and I wouldnt have had Nagashes army wide inspiring presence up,the unit would have likely been reduced to the mid single digits..much harder to regro from.

 As far as the Morghasts go,,im actually thinking of dropping the battalion along with the 2 morghasts and adding in a VLoZD,,adds an exceptional beatstick and another spell and an artifact,7 or 8 drop army isisnt assuring but like I say,this army as a whole seems to fare well against most opponents when going second,,with tzeentch playing them at all in any capacity isint going to work out well lol.

 The morghasts just get focused down first,bringing a block of 4 is a huge point sink and not efficient at all as they need to stick close to Nagash thus extremely limiting your choices of what amoun ts to probably 70% of the offensive force in your army.