Varnish?

[Praecautus]

Hello TGA painters. So this may be a newbie question but with the new varnish can coming I wanted to understand more about varnishing. I tried Dr Google but all the answers I could find were old and not overly clear.

I am close to finishing my first army that I intend to use for gaming. All the minis are plastic and it has taken time and money.

Should I be varnishing them?

If so how e.g. Spray or brush, matte or gloss or both? 

I have read that varnish will dull the highlights, if so can I rehighlight and going forward highlight after varnish?

Anything else?

[RuneBrush]

Varnish will certainly reduce the amount of wear and tear a model receives whilst playing but as you say it does change the tone of the overall model.  There are lots of different ways to do it and each has pro's and con's.

Gloss varnish provides a very high level of protection in comparison to matt, even more so when you're using a spray can, but the finish is not very pleasing to the eye.

Matt varnish gives a much nicer end effect, but can rub off with use.  Within the hobby Dullcote is one of the most popular matt varnishes, but isn't the cheapest or easiest to obtain within the UK.  'Ard Coat in a can can be temperamental and you'll often hear people say that it's frosted their models.

One of the best approaches if you're looking to protect your models for gaming is to gloss varnish and then matt varnish them, this gives you the best of both worlds in terms of protection and finish.  Personally I use a can of Liquitex Gloss Varnish and then Daler & Rowney Soluable Matt varnish through my airbrush (which I find more reliable than a can).  It is worth noting that GW are about to release a new matt varnish spray can, which they're claiming is "frost free".

You can quite easily apply highlights after you've varnished - in fact one common technique is to apply a light layer of varnish between layers of paint when using certain techniques, so it's perfectly valid to put paint on top of varnishes.  I'd say that you only really need to do this for metallics, where you need a more reflective sheen.  One trick I've used in the past is to paint on Air Caste Thinner over the metallic areas, which acts as a very thin gloss layer and brings the lustre back.  This also means that your highlights are still protected.

[Sheriff]

I use the Armypainter matt varnish - anything wrong with that one? Not noticed any change in paintwork, but I am colorblind, so... 

[Kramer]

I use Armypainter Matt varnish as well. And the models have dulled a bit. But foor me it weighs up against the protection it gives. I have used gloss varnishes in the past but preferred the impact of matt over gloss. 

[Turragor]

GW just revealed the new varnish designed not to frost. Could it be the chosen one?

[Sheriff]

56 minutes ago, Kramer said:

I use Armypainter Matt varnish as well. And the models have dulled a bit. But foor me it weighs up against the protection it gives. I have used gloss varnishes in the past but preferred the impact of matt over gloss. 

When you say dull, what exactly does this mean? Just turns down the brightness ****** a bit? 

Or you mean it dulls over time or something?

[Kramer]

17 minutes ago, Sheriff said:

When you say dull, what exactly does this mean? Just turns down the brightness ****** a bit? 

Or you mean it dulls over time or something?

Brightness is definitely reduced. I have to models waiting to be sprayed. I'll try to take some before and after pictures tonight or tomorrow. 

[Sheriff]

5 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Brightness is definitely reduced. I have to models waiting to be sprayed. I'll try to take some before and after pictures tonight or tomorrow. 

I use quite a bright colour scheme so it seems fine.

[RuneBrush]

Matt varnish is pretty clever, if you looked at it under a microscope you'd find the surface is actually really rough and pitted, this is what reduces how reflective the paint is - if you shine a light at it, the roughness actually diffuses the light.  Gloss works the other way, by filling in all of the imperfections in a surface and making it really smooth.

For us, what that means is the light diffusion knocks a few levels of vibrancy off the paint (without it paints tend to be slightly reflective).  You could say it's reduced the brightness - because that's the way matt varnish actually works.

The way to combat this is as @Sheriff has done with his models is to make sure that you really push your highlights and contrast.  Bear in mind that very pale highlights will actually be emphasised with the diffusion, so you still need to be sensible   I like using this to my advantage, pale surfaces look brilliant with a matt finish and visa versa.  Primary colours work with either a matt or gloss.

[Tommy]

I'm really hopeful about this new GW varnish, I've had bad frosting experiences with both their previous stuff and the Army Painter equivalent, and can't get Dullcote over here (Ireland) without going to unreasonable lengths. Think the generally humidity is a big factor.

If the finish is a bit satin-y that's fine, if it's non-gloss protection that just works I'll be delighted. They've said it's specifically designed not to frost so fingers crossed!

[Praecautus]

Really helpful discussion. Looks like another project to varnish my khorne army

[Swooper]

10 hours ago, RuneBrush said:

Gloss varnish provides a very high level of protection in comparison to matt

This is simply not true, an old hobby myth. Both matte and gloss varnishes give equal protection to your minis.

[Tommy]

Does anyone play with unvarnished minis? I just can't, too insecure. Many would likely be fine, but any with pointy bits (e.g. the Tzaangor Shaman I painted recently) seem to lose paint on every protrusion even with careful handling.

...I also find varnish very good for closure!

[RoyalDachshund]

To be absolutely honest I do have a small OnG unit painted 9-10 years ago with regular old citadels on brush-on apply black undercoat without any varnish and... so far one of them have a tiny grey spot on the elbow. Granted, I use them 20ish times a year for rpg /proxy purposes and I don't keep them in the safest way (since they are old and well... ugly as hell) a.k.a just pile them in the drawer.

I do hear a lot about varnishing plastic miniatures (on metals it's a must) but I'm yet to meet one person in the flesh that had some serious issues with non-varnished plastics.

I'm not saying you should/shouldn't use a varnish, just pointing out that lot of people have a lot of different experiences and preferences. This goes with varnishing, priming (is the Citadel spray is a primer or not is a question our grandchildren will discuss) using that or that glue etc.

[Kugane]

I have done quite a bit of testing and it seems that the games workshop washes are partly varnish as well (I guess they contain the same chemical as Lahmian Medium, which is a matte varnish despite it being sold for other purposes.). Its quite hard to chip paint off plastic models that previously had a wash on them. So thats someting to keep in mind if your last layer was a wash you wont need that much Varnish on top of that.

I have used Testors dullcoat - it gets the job done, but its extremely smelly: your whole house will smell after you sprayed them outside and take them indoors to dry. Even with the windows open haha.

If you want a paint-on solution: 'ardcoat is a good varnish, and so is Lahmian Medium. The issue with Lahmian medium is that its a matte coat, so its quite weak. So if you do a paint-on 'ardcoat and cover that up with 1 or 2 layers of lahmian, you have a fully matted out varnish and several layers :). Alternatively the Satin varnish from vallejo works quite decent as well.

[Sheriff]

3 hours ago, Tommy said:

Does anyone play with unvarnished minis? I just can't, too insecure. Many would likely be fine, but any with pointy bits (e.g. the Tzaangor Shaman I painted recently) seem to lose paint on every protrusion even with careful handling.

...I also find varnish very good for closure!

This. 

Varnish means I'm DONE, SON. 

[Davariel]

I've always used a brush on matt varnish on my models. Takes a little longer than a spray but for me the peace of mind is worth it - I don't think I could bear any frosting mishaps

One trick I do use though is to pick out any metals or gems with a gloss varnish once the matt's dried. Metals often look unnaturally dull with a coat of matt varnish and a gloss gives them a nice gleaming effect (warning, this might not be appropriate for the likes of undead or beastmen).

[RuneBrush]

15 hours ago, Swooper said:

This is simply not true, an old hobby myth. Both matte and gloss varnishes give equal protection to your minis.

Well I've rubbed matt varnish off with use and not gloss so was speaking from experience.  I expect it depends upon the varnish you're using.

[BunkhouseBuster]

I have never used varnish on my models, and probably never will.  I have heard too many horror stories about the spray messing up the models, whatever the cause.  And with Missouri USA weather, I only have about 3 weeks out of the year where I can spray anything outside, and my house is too small to spray inside without everyone breathing it in, so that's no good.

If it works for you all, great!  But I would rather do my infrequent touch up every few years than risk ruining the hours put into the models.

That said, I've only ever had some chipping issues on a few of my pewter models, and on like two plastic/resin models from regular use.  I actually found that, if the models is spray-primed white, that the painting coming off on the high, raised edges, can actually give a cool effect of some bright highlighting as the white undercoat shows through.

[Pedro_L]

Hey guys, 

I wanted to bump this discussion up to ask if anyone had tried the new GW varnish yet? I've a load of Savage Orruks which have a fair bit of unwanted shine because of washes I've used on the skin, but haven't yet plucked up the courage to varnish a figure - partly since I saw some not too favourable reviews of the new GW varnish on Youtube. 

So has anyone tried it and would they recommend it? Or are there other matt varnishes worth considering?

Cheers

[paul7926]

I've not used the new GW varnish I'll leave that for others to try.

The old GW varnished ruined the best model I have ever painted so now I don't use any at all.  I'd rather the paint wore off over time with usage but I got to enjoy it for a while rather than having something trashed in seconds before it's even used once.

[Kugane]

Spray varnish is a risky business. You need the right temperature, humidity and you need to do a blood offering to khorne. Any of those out of place and you will likely mess up.

I personally use Vallejo brush on gloss varnish and apply it with an XL brush and overbrush for a thin smooth finish.

After that I use army painter brush on anti shine varnish for a math finish. Pick out any details with gloss varnish after that if needed.

I scratch tested varnished stuff. What I found is, if you have thin layers it scratches quite easily, even when varnished, so let your miniatures fully cure a few days before applying varnish. After that let the gloss dry for a day before applying anti shine varnish and finally let that dry for another day or so and you can throw your miniatures against a wall and the paint won't come off (limbs might though!)

If you varnish or use your stuff to soon it seems you can still scratch paint jobs off under some rough useage like accidentally scraping past a plaster terrain piece and such. 

If you have some shiny spots left you can fix that with lahmian medium as well.

Matte varnish will wear off over time and using. You will notice gloss areas after some time. So reapply new anti shine once you see the gloss shining through. Wash your minis with a quick soap wash before re-applying.

There are also many acrylic varnishes at art shops that give UV protection as well to stop discoloring. I never tried them, but that is an option too.