Let's chat: Sepulchral Guard

[Anthony225]

Objectives (12)
62 - March of the Dead
65 - Skills Unforgotten
243 - Change of Tactics
252 - Defensive Strike
257 - Escalation
272 - Master of War
278 - Our Only Way Out
282 - Ploymaster
284 - Precise Use of Force
291 - Superior Tactician
292 - Supremacy
442 - Fervent Petition

Ploys (10)
69 - Ceaseless Attacks
73 - Restless Dead
329 - Great Concussion
331 - Hidden Paths
334 - Inspiration Strikes
347 - Quick Thinker
348 - Ready for Action
362 - Spoils of Battle
368 - Time Trap
372 - Twist the Knife

Upgrades (10)
78 - Ancient Commander
81 - Fatal Strike
83 - Frightening Speed
374 - Acrobatic
376 - Awakened Weapon
391 - Great Strength
395 - Incredible Strength
409 - Shadeglass Axe
424 - Tethered Spirit
489 - Kingsbane

in my head this list is a sit back and collect glory type, if you end up with 3 nicely placed objectives in your territory. If not then it can switch gears and push forward to try and kill stuff. 

My thouht was to try and get ancient commander on the Warden asap, which is what spoils of battle is there for. Inspiration strikes and restless dead are primarily for scoring fervent petition, but both have their uses.

Has anyone thought about or tried a type of full on aggressive guard build? I was thinking pure carnage as "worse case scenario" you could have all your fighters dead and still score it. 

Another cool combo to go with the aggro guard could be Balance of Power + clawing hands + some sort of enemy push cards to make it so your opponent t has 2 supporting fighters. It'd be 2 immediate glory just for charging.

[Desidus]

18 hours ago, Bandit-94 said:

@Desidus can i see your decklist? I'm trying to create a mixed deck but without results, Aggro decks still stomp my skellies

Hi mate,

This is its current incarnation, just be aware I have incorporated two of the new leader cards: https://www.underworldsdb.com/shared.php?deck=0,62,65,69,73,77,80,83,85,87,234,252,257,263,264,265,278,282,291,292,329,331,335,347,349,372,376,378,390,391,412,479,395

 

Hidden paths helps to move a petioner in behind aggro decks to snag an objective if you lose the first roll (and only have two objectives) or alternatively allows for some sneaky ganks with the Champion or Warden against objective decks. 

Invisible Walls and Great Concussion as just straight up money to use defensively against aggression decks, especially if you draw them in the early phase and can use them to starve your opponents glory in the first round, allowing you to step up the Champion &/or Harvester to throw down some pain. Typically if I draw Great Concussion against aggro in my first hand, and they make me go first or I win the roll and elect to go first, I will use the wardens ability to pull back two fighters 2 hexes and then concussion to put at least 6/7 hexes between my fighters and my opponents. Against everyone but Farstriders, it effectively renders the first phase of the game useless to them. 

Great concussion is also money to deny objectives against objective based decks if you play it after the 4th activation, set up your warband correctly and you can snag your objectives with it too ( The trick to this is to use your early activations to play offensively with Champion / Harvester / Prince and then use the wardens ability to position your petitioners correctly.

I'm sure I could optimise my objectives a littler further, but there just isn't anything else there that I like, and having Hold 1,2 & 3 usually means I'm going to get some easy glory if those objectives are close. 

I haven't purchased the Chosen axes yet, but its next on the mark as I'd love to fit in Trap, I just don't want to drop anything to fit it.

[dillonjay21]

@Desidus In regards to fitting trap into your deck I would drop Rebound. As devastating as it can be sometimes its effectively a 5+ roll and I would not rely on that as much as I could rely on a ploy you know for sure will give you that extra damage you need. 

[Sleboda]

Agreed. I never include any of the cards that require a roll to see if they work. The game has enough random luck in it already to justify me giving away control over one of the few things I can expect to work.

[Tutenkharnage]

@Desidus: Off the top of my head, you have enough damage options that Precise Use of Force should be a winner in your deck. I would certainly slot it in ahead of one of the Hold Objective cards.

 

@Sleboda: I disagree. In many circumstances, a 50/50 card has a higher chance of success than "safe" cards such as Khorne Calls, and the payoff for success is typically higher, making it a double win. A 50/50 chance to cancel your opponent's Great Concussion can be the difference between scoring Supremacy or not, a 50/50 chance to Shattershard his Tethered Spirit can clear the path for a run on his leader before you roll the attack dice, etc. Not all cards can be Twist the Knife or Trap.

[Desidus]

8 hours ago, Tutenkharnage said:

@Desidus: Off the top of my head, you have enough damage options that Precise Use of Force should be a winner in your deck. I would certainly slot it in ahead of one of the Hold Objective cards.

Precise use of force is a card I've considered, however from memory is in the dwarf box? I've yet to purchase, rest assured once I do I'll be adding it 

[Desidus]

12 hours ago, dillonjay21 said:

@Desidus In regards to fitting trap into your deck I would drop Rebound. As devastating as it can be sometimes its effectively a 5+ roll and I would not rely on that as much as I could rely on a ploy you know for sure will give you that extra damage you need. 

Apologies for double post, posting from my phone and it's not formatting for some reason. 

I'd tend to agree, however Rebound has gone off more often than not for me, it's frustrating when it doesn't, but you take the good with the bad. 

[Sleboda]

10 hours ago, Tutenkharnage said:

@Sleboda: I disagree. In many circumstances, a 50/50 card has a higher chance of success than "safe" card

?

That's, quite literally, impossible.

I've card is 100% going to happen, the other is 50%.

100>50

Now, I'll agree that the 50/50 card often has a better payoff or offers an option not possible with the 100% card, but that's a different discussion.

I prefer to build my plans with as few variables as possible, and including cards that are 50% likely to fail with no other factor applied is not an option for me.

My gf ( @TwiceIfILikeIt) on the other hand, is a rat at heart and loves to randomize as much as she can, plans and consequences be damned. Bless her dark, evil, Skaven heart.

 

Edit:

I also minimize the number of fighter-specific cards I include. The moment that fighter dies, those cards are 0% likely to work. That's a killer in a limited resource situation. Drawing one of those cards after the fighter is dead frustrates me to no end.

[Tutenkharnage]

It's not impossible. A card like Khorne Calls is 100% safe to play and only 10% to 15% likely to make a difference, depending on the exact attack and defense dice rolled. Similarly, Blood Offering is 100% safe to play and only 25% likely to make a difference. A card like Forceful Denial is 100% safe to play and 50% likely to make a difference, and when it does, the effect is often bigger than, in this example, a simple hit.

I'm not suggesting anyone take Trap or Twist the Knife or Ready for Action or similar cards out of their decks.  These cards can't fail, and the have amazing effects. I am suggesting that cards such as Shattershard merit a spot ahead of cards such as Khorne Calls even if your first instinct is to say, "A 50/50 shot? No thanks. I'll take the sure thing instead." In many instances, the actual odds of the sure thing making a difference is far less than 50/50, which makes it the riskier play. 

Hope that makes sense.

[Sleboda]

7 hours ago, Tutenkharnage said:

It's not impossible. A card like Khorne Calls is 100% safe to play and only 10% to 15% likely to make a difference, depending on the exact attack and defense dice rolled. Similarly, Blood Offering is 100% safe to play and only 25% likely to make a difference. A card like Forceful Denial is 100% safe to play and 50% likely to make a difference, and when it does, the effect is often bigger than, in this example, a simple hit.

But "make a difference" was not the assertion. It was be "successful."

Something that succeeds 50% of the time cannot succeed more often than something that succeeds 100% of the time.

[Tutenkharnage]

Khorne Calls only succeeds when it makes the difference between hitting and missing. We won’t know which dice we added unless we roll them separately and track the results, but we don’t need to. If the odds of success are 55% without Khorne Calls and 70% with it, then we know that the card works 15% of the time. If you want to be charitable or put a different spin on it, you could say that it converts 1/3 of failures into successes, but this still means it works less often than Shattershard. And the payoff for Shattershard and similar cards is often bigger. 

[BaldoBeardo]

Necro, (haha)

So where do SG sit right now?

I've been able to come up with some combat focussed decks and a couple of denial decks - but what are people having the most luck with?

[Biboune]

There is a new card : Mirror Move .

on this website: https://www.underworldsdb.com/

it is stated:

Q: If I use this as a reaction to Earthquake, what happens?

---

A: All of the pushes made during Earthquake are made simultaneously. After those pushes, you can play Mirror Move to choose any fighter and push them one hex.

 

 

I understand that you can push every models back where they were ( for exemple) after an Eathquake or a Great Concussion .

This card can be useful in other situation. I think it is a auto included in an objective deck. It makes them far more resilient to pushes gambit.

[Cursed]

37 minutes ago, Biboune said:

There is a new card : Mirror Move .

on this website: https://www.underworldsdb.com/

it is stated:

Q: If I use this as a reaction to Earthquake, what happens?

---

A: All of the pushes made during Earthquake are made simultaneously. After those pushes, you can play Mirror Move to choose any fighter and push them one hex.

 

 

I understand that you can push every models back where they were ( for exemple) after an Eathquake or a Great Concussion .

This card can be useful in other situation. I think it is a auto included in an objective deck. It makes them far more resilient to pushes gambit.

sadly you can only push one fighter back since they did not put a ''s'' after ''any fighter'' 

[Bandit-94]

https://www.underworldsdb.com/shared.php?deck=0,243,252,257,272,278,291,292,N317,N326,N340,N347,N385,73,77,329,331,336,347,348,349,L38,L42,83,85,87,373,389,420,424,427,N499,N539

https://www.underworldsdb.com/shared.php?deck=0,296,297,292,278,62,263,264,265,266,267,257,252,372,68,326,347,69,371,324,73,362,76,349,83,430,429,428,426,425,80,373,376,395,424,84,L42

from the results of the Clash in the North 2018 - Danish Nationals and the Objective Secured Southern Hemisphere Open Grand Clash 2018 (both wins from our favorite skellies) we can understand how the change of rules on tokens and the new objectives of the last expansions have given life to this deck making it competitive again. this, in my opinion, is also given by the fact that we are no longer the band with the most fragile models of the game (not less than 5 models of the zarbag gitz warband have only 2 wounds).

 

between the two I prefer the one that does not concentrate its strategy on holding the objectives on board. excluding a couple of cards that I do not like (great gains for example), it seems to me that the objective deck is very compact and balanced between passive ones and those that require an offensive approach.

[BaldoBeardo]

4 hours ago, Bandit-94 said:

https://www.underworldsdb.com/shared.php?deck=0,243,252,257,272,278,291,292,N317,N326,N340,N347,N385,73,77,329,331,336,347,348,349,L38,L42,83,85,87,373,389,420,424,427,N499,N539

https://www.underworldsdb.com/shared.php?deck=0,296,297,292,278,62,263,264,265,266,267,257,252,372,68,326,347,69,371,324,73,362,76,349,83,430,429,428,426,425,80,373,376,395,424,84,L42

from the results of the Clash in the North 2018 - Danish Nationals and the Objective Secured Southern Hemisphere Open Grand Clash 2018 (both wins from our favorite skellies) we can understand how the change of rules on tokens and the new objectives of the last expansions have given life to this deck making it competitive again. this, in my opinion, is also given by the fact that we are no longer the band with the most fragile models of the game (not less than 5 models of the zarbag gitz warband have only 2 wounds).

 

between the two I prefer the one that does not concentrate its strategy on holding the objectives on board. excluding a couple of cards that I do not like (great gains for example), it seems to me that the objective deck is very compact and balanced between passive ones and those that require an offensive approach.

Cheers for those!

I've moved away from holding objectives as a focus, but only temporarily - my regular group is quite small so I'm expecting to have to rejig decks frequently to keep opponents guessing. ?

[Bandit-94]

the Sepulchral Guard rise!

the 1st of december i will test this this decklist at my local tournament in Turin, Italy.

https://www.underworldsdb.com/shared.php?deck=0,59,62,65,243,257,292,N317,N303,L29,L27,N385,N347,73,76,78,83,87,320,331,332,334,348,362,383,391,403,N426,N499,N527,N546,L6,L38

some advice ?

 

i think is a very solid deck, every objective is stackable with the others and dead-hands are sooo rares 

[Carnelian]

13 hours ago, Bandit-94 said:

the Sepulchral Guard rise!

the 1st of december i will test this this decklist at my local tournament in Turin, Italy.

https://www.underworldsdb.com/shared.php?deck=0,59,62,65,243,257,292,N317,N303,L29,L27,N385,N347,73,76,78,83,87,320,331,332,334,348,362,383,391,403,N426,N499,N527,N546,L6,L38

some advice ?

 

i think is a very solid deck, every objective is stackable with the others and dead-hands are sooo rares 

I like that deck! Let us know how it goes

[Tropical Ghost General]

Wondering if I can get some help and advice from more seasoned skelebobs players. I'm still very new to Underworlds and currently own everything available. 

I played 2 tournaments recently. In the 1st I did 3-1 over 4 rounds and came 6th out if 16. I then changed my deck to be more aggressive and combat focused and lost the second one 1-4, coming last. 

So I know that we can't hit very well and die incredibly quickly but what basic tips can you more experienced players give with general gameplay. I'm not too bothered about cards and combos because that information is readily available and figuring out which cards to take is part of the fun. I'm more interested in stuff like best deployment formations, should petitioners be at the front or the back, which sort of boards suit us best, when should the warden become aggressive and go in for the kill, and other information like this. 

Any help is greatly appreciated and many thanks in advance. 

[Desidus]

1 hour ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

Wondering if I can get some help and advice from more seasoned skelebobs players. I'm still very new to Underworlds and currently own everything available. 

I played 2 tournaments recently. In the 1st I did 3-1 over 4 rounds and came 6th out if 16. I then changed my deck to be more aggressive and combat focused and lost the second one 1-4, coming last. 

So I know that we can't hit very well and die incredibly quickly but what basic tips can you more experienced players give with general gameplay. I'm not too bothered about cards and combos because that information is readily available and figuring out which cards to take is part of the fun. I'm more interested in stuff like best deployment formations, should petitioners be at the front or the back, which sort of boards suit us best, when should the warden become aggressive and go in for the kill, and other information like this. 

Any help is greatly appreciated and many thanks in advance. 

I'll typically deploy my petitioners in the back line unless I draw Matyred in my first hand. Then a petitioner sits as far forward as possible to snag some early score immediately glory. It's well worth the risk.

With the changes to how tokens work, protecting the warden has become even more paramount. Typically I will beef up the champion or Harvester depending on opponent and let them do all the heavy lifting. Lethal Lunge is the only Warden specific upgrade I take as 3 Damage with cleave when uninspired or inspired is too good to pass up on.

Sep Guard play extremely well as a hybrid aggro/objective deck with a few score immediate cards combined with Supremacy / OOWO, mix in your choice of passive End  game objectives and you should do fairly well.

[Bandit-94]

imo, this board is the best for our skellies:

 

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTLcinkmy0eAOKuhAekQqVulwlRMJJwuTPLMFtB60GC0COe3Ky1

 

i think that any way this board is positioned offers to you a good protection to your warden, a solid frontline and a wery good disposition of starting exes, helping also objective play and to scoring pretty easly extreme flank. 

 

the skellies can't be a pure aggro warband. they bleed to many glories and they are too slow for pressing the opponenst. 

[Tropical Ghost General]

@Bandit-94 how do you find having lethal hexs on the board? I tried it afew times and kept getting pushed into them and dying. 

[Bandit-94]

38 minutes ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

@Bandit-94 how do you find having lethal hexs on the board? I tried it afew times and kept getting pushed into them and dying. 

the lethal hexes have never given me big problems, in fact they have been useful for limiting the movements of the opposing warband. with so many bodies available, and the ability to recall them in battle, if you position yourself correctly you can get to dictate / predict the opposing movements  

[Bandit-94]

finally, the Saturday tournament report. 9 participants, I placed second.

my decklist: https://www.underworldsdb.com/shared.php?deck=0,59,62,65,243,257,292,N317,L29,L27,N385,N347,73,76,78,83,320,331,332,334,348,362,383,391,403,N426,N499,N527,N546,L38,N340,427,384

1 Sep. guard. (myself)
2 magore
2 cursebreakers
1 orruks
1 nighthaunt
1 fireslayers
1 ???

first pairing: Vs fireslayers - won

they did not give me any kind of problem, maybe it's because I played them for a long time or my opponent was not too experienced. while my champion acted as a deterrent to the progress of his models, at the first end phase supremacy and keep them guessing sealed the victory immediately.

second pairing: nighthaunt - lost

I ruled the whole game. I had 10 glories, he 5. I just had to do a move to keep them guessing and i moved my warden of 1 hex random. if I had moved my prince of dust in its territory I would have won, because in the end phase I gain 2 glories (total 12), he instead supremacy, DENIAL (which nighthaunt plays denial ??), shining example and the extra glory for the slumbering key , for a total of 13 glories. ouch! his unpredictable comeback was a bit depressing for me, but I had to recover quickly for my third opponent!

third pairing: vs magore - won

the Magore's fiends frightened me, I was afraid that their speed and their attack power would tear each model one after another. fortunately it did not happen that way, in fact my opponent has committed a bit of positioning errors that I exploited to the maximum, managing to snatch a comfortable victory.

fourth pairing: Vs magore - draw

hard, hard match against an expert player. I have used all my energy, all the resources and opportunities to bleed less possible glories and at the same time gaining them.
12 glories each, no band totally destroyed and a model each on an objective. perfect draw.

fifth pairing: Vs ??? - won

I swear, I tried to remember with all my strength but I do not remember absolutely NOTHING of this match except that I won ahah XD

sixth and last pairing: Vs Stormsire

he played a defensive list, I played the same way. my deck was better designed to play that strategy and when he tried to reach me to tear me a few points I was able to make the right movements to bring me totally out of his range of charge, thanks also to Illusory fighter played in response to his hidden paths.
 

I reached second place and I can say I'm really satisfied with this result. the only real defeat was inflicted on me by something so unexpected for me that it would have been impossible to foresee it even if I had to think about it for hours in a row, so that's fine! the nighthaunt player also won the tournament, so that strategy has rewarded him and I'm very happy for him!

conclusions on the deck: the decklist is solid and flexible. in my opinion the secret of a good deck is to build an objective deck in which, whatever the 3 cards you will draw, at least 2 can certainly score them together.
about skellies: managing 7 models with their slowness is not easy, but if you can predict a little bit of your opponent's moves and move the models accordingly, most of the problems are solved by themselves.