Death Allies

[Malakithe]

With new info like allegiance abilities for at a minimum Nighthaunt and Soulbight and allies I think we will see the return of many mixed death lists. 

I've always had this vision of a Deathlord leading a mixed army and soon I'll have Arkhan and a VLoZD leading mindless undead!

[lare2]

I was pleasantly surprised to see soulblight... had a sneaking suspicion they would be phased out.

[Sception]

I have mixed feelings.  Death content remains extremely thin on the ground, getting the least attention and support out of any of the 'big four' factions.  The lack of faction abilities for Deathrattle makes me think their battle tome will be coming shortly after the new general's book, but with nothing previewed for them, I'm not expecting any new units apart from maybe calling skeletons with spears and skeletons with swords two different units, which will leave it very thin.  No subfaction rules for deathwalkers or deathlords is disheartening, though.  And with only two pages per subfaction, including for the overarching 'Death' faction, I kind of doubt we'll be getting new spell lores, which could have been a game changer for us.  Or, at least, could have been a game changer for me, as I like to run Arkhan.

The new allies rules are nice for us, as they'll let us include necromancers in our deathrattle and flesheater armies, which pretty significantly improves the playability of those subfactions.  And Deathlord armies using morghasts as troops will be able to include some utility casters to expand on Arkhan or Nagash's spellcasting options, so that's cool, too.

But yeah, overall support for Death continues to look extremely skeletal, if you'll pardon the pun.  I wasn't expecting much, but I will say I was expecting more than we're getting.  Again, while I take the absence of Deathrattle as a sign they're getting their own battletome soon, I have none of the same confidence about the other missing Death subfactions.

At least we'll be getting a closer preview tomorrow.  Hopefully there will be something to look forward to in it, and not just, as I personally expect, a nerfing of our deathless minions faction rule.

[Malakithe]

I'm thinking all Soulblight and all Nighthanut lists with a Deathlords and summoning will look good

[deynon]

I always played mixed Death so no problem at all, but I'm eager to try new alliances, I only hope the base trait and "the ruler of night" will not disappear

[Sception]

I expect the base trait to stay and ruler to disappear, but we'll see.  Possibly as soon as tomorrow.  I'm trying not to hang my hopes on it one way or another, but two years without a meaningful release makes it kind of hard for me to care in general.

[deynon]

1 hour ago, Sception said:

I expect the base trait to stay and ruler to disappear, but we'll see.  Possibly as soon as tomorrow.  I'm trying not to hang my hopes on it one way or another, but two years without a meaningful release makes it kind of hard for me to care in general.

i instead care moreovercauseit (and for the Seraphon)

[shinros]

The thing is people keep saying Deathrattle when more than that is missing from the list. Deathlords, Deadwalkers and Death mages are also missing. Something is up when especially the big daddys of death are not even on the list. Nagash, mannfred, neferata and Arkhan etc. 

[Sception]

Not much of a faction, tho.  i think you're more supposed to use allies points to include then in other factions.

[someone2040]

1 hour ago, shinros said:

The thing is people keep saying Deathrattle when more than that is missing from the list. Deathlords, Deadwalkers and Death mages are also missing. Something is up when especially the big daddys of death are not even on the list. Nagash, mannfred, neferata and Arkhan etc. 

They keep saying Deathrattle because out of the ones you mentioned, they're the only ones that really make sense to have their own allegiance abilities in the game as current.

You need to be able to make a legal list purely from a single faction to be able to take allegiance abilities, so that immediately rules out Deadwalkers and Death Mages.

Deathlords it makes more sense to use GA: Death allegiance anyway. I think it'd be better if more spells were baked into their warscrolls (like additional spells, or you know, knowing the spells of other wizards nearby) than needing their own spell lore.

[shinros]

19 minutes ago, someone2040 said:

They keep saying Deathrattle because out of the ones you mentioned, they're the only ones that really make sense to have their own allegiance abilities in the game as current.

You need to be able to make a legal list purely from a single faction to be able to take allegiance abilities, so that immediately rules out Deadwalkers and Death Mages.

Deathlords it makes more sense to use GA: Death allegiance anyway. I think it'd be better if more spells were baked into their warscrolls (like additional spells, or you know, knowing the spells of other wizards nearby) than needing their own spell lore.

Or perhaps all of them will fold into a new book? Since in a novel deathlords can be from human necromancers, vampires, wight kings, liche's etc. As GW said they rule over all the dead and I don't see nagash points value fitting into allies. Majority of the followers of nagash hope to be deathlords.

edit:Since if they release a deathrattle only book how the hell would you be able to run arkhan, neferata, mannfred and nagash etc? More allies I guess? Plus mannfred and neferata are like 400+ points and nagash is 900. 

[AverageBoss]

I am hoping at least some of my VC collection is reconsolidated into less, larger factions. They were never intended to be split up that way, and all the micro synergies are obnoxious. Now I just feel like I have tiny collections of 7 different armies that want nothing to do with each other outside of very few instances.

[Veillotron]

7 hours ago, Sception said:

The lack of faction abilities for Deathrattle makes me think their battle tome will be coming shortly after the new general's book

 

1 hour ago, shinros said:

The thing is people keep saying Deathrattle when more than that is missing from the list. Deathlords, Deadwalkers and Death mages are also missing. Something is up when especially the big daddys of death are not even on the list. Nagash, mannfred, neferata and Arkhan etc. 

 

I wonder if they would consider combining all of these into one battletome, one faction. Basically all the leaders with the mindless hordes of skellies and zombies. It would make more sense then try to do a full Deathrattle battletome, unless GW releases a bunch of new models to support the faction.

 

 

[shinros]

14 minutes ago, Veillotron said:

 

 

I wonder if they would consider combining all of these into one battletome, one faction. Basically all the leaders with the mindless hordes of skellies and zombies. It would make more sense then try to do a full Deathrattle battletome, unless GW releases a bunch of new models to support the faction.

 

 

That's what I personally believe a "hordes of nagash" style book that disciples/blades have got. With some new models(most likely a new vampire and liche hero I hope). Since deathlords as I said are human necromancers, vampires, wight kings etc because all the skeletons have been rebased but the zombies have been left alone? Plus people on facebook have been begging GW for ages for new zombies and the last response we got "that they will see if nagash can conjure something up" They have also rebased the necromancer awhile back also. 

The necromancer can pretty much buff all the line troops of death. 

Plus a start collecting box has skeletons and a mortarch with it. If I was GW I would want people to buy the big kits making a deathrattle only tome won't do that. 

I don't see GW not including all the factions simply down to "allies" since the deathlords save arkhan don't really fit into it. I find it quite surprising that scourge privateers are not on the list also and nurgle is not there either. 

[Veillotron]

16 minutes ago, shinros said:

That's what I personally believe a "hordes of nagash" style book that disciples/blades have got. With some new models(most likely a new vampire and liche hero I hope). Since deathlords as I said are human necromancers, vampires, wight kings etc because all the skeletons have been rebased but the zombies have been left alone? Plus people on facebook have been begging GW for ages for new zombies and the last response we got "that they will see if nagash can conjure something up" They have also rebased the necromancer awhile back also. 

The necromancer can pretty much buff all the line troops of death. 

Plus a start collecting box has skeletons and a mortarch with it. If I was GW I would want people to buy the big kits making a deathrattle only tome won't do that. 

I don't see GW not including all the factions simply down to "allies" since the deathlords save arkhan don't really fit into it. I find it quite surprising that scourge privateers are not on the list also and nurgle is not there either. 

What you just wrote makes a lot of sense... let's keep our fingers crossed...

[shinros]

1 hour ago, Veillotron said:

What you just wrote makes a lot of sense... let's keep our fingers crossed...

Pretty much since the mortarch's will break the deathrattle alignment(even at 1000 points) and arkhan is far more than 200 points and neferata and mannfred are 400+ so they can't even be used in 2000 point games. When the three of them are part of the start collecting box. Nagash is pretty much a no go hence I believe we are going to get a chaos like tome using those factions. Well that's what it seems like to me. You would even be hard pressed to fit Morghast in. 

Doing a deathrattle only book would not make people pick up the big kits or the start collecting box. As you say fingers crossed I could be wrong. 

 

[Oppenheimer]

According to the new chart unless you decrease their cost you'd only be able to use Neferata or Mannfred as an ally in a 2500 point army and no one really plays that high a point value.

If you played soulblight I guess you could fill out the battleline with zombies with your ally points since 3 units of blood knights is a pretty crazy ask.

I expect deathrattle to get its own book is the reason it's not included.

[someone2040]

So I guess all I'll say is, you've still got the option of Grand Alliance armies. It's not going away, it might even be better than it is now.

 

It's possible that in future they'll update the various Deathlords to have dual-faction keywords. The question is whether or not it makes sense.

Does Arkhan purely deal with Deathrattle barrow legions? Or does he summon anything he can get his hands on. Neferata and Manfredd are both VAMPIRES, but don't necessarily belong exclusively to the SOULBLIGHT faction. Neferata has never really struck me as one that associates with Bats or Vargheists, even if she does associate with Vampires and Coven Thrones. She has close ties to Deathrattle as well, being remnants of long lost Lamia.

 

The factions are more than just the race, they embody a particular identity. One which the Deathlords themself, while being of the same race, may not necessarily share.

 

So that's just some food for thought. It's possible that in future, they will be updated to have closer alignments with particular factions, while still being a Deathlord.

For example, if we ever saw a Carrion King/Ushoran miniature as one of Nagash's Mortarchs, then I have little doubt that he'd have both the DEATHLORD and FLESH-EATER COURTS keywords. But as it stands, you can still run Grand Alliance Death as your allegiance. But it's not necessarily so clear cut when each Death faction has it's own identity and themes.

 

That being said, who knows. Maybe the Deathlords Allegiance ability whenever it comes around will be that you have unlimited ally points.

[Malakithe]

I'm predicting a big mixed book like Tzeentch. Depending on the general you take you get x, x, x

But yeah I'm going to roll either full Soulblight or full Nighthant. At 2k you get 400pts of happy friends. Arkhan is 340pts then 60pts for small stuff. Assuming points values don't shift.

[Ragequit]

11 hours ago, someone2040 said:

They keep saying Deathrattle because out of the ones you mentioned, they're the only ones that really make sense to have their own allegiance abilities in the game as current.

You need to be able to make a legal list purely from a single faction to be able to take allegiance abilities, so that immediately rules out Deadwalkers and Death Mages.

Deathlords it makes more sense to use GA: Death allegiance anyway. I think it'd be better if more spells were baked into their warscrolls (like additional spells, or you know, knowing the spells of other wizards nearby) than needing their own spell lore.

That is exactly why I am surprised why Deathrattle is missing from the group

Soulblight and Nighthaunt have the Leaders and Battleline requirements to make an army so why not Deathrattle unless they plan to have a new Battletome within the next 6 months (I am being generous)

Deadwalkers and Death Mages are 2 separate sub factions thus would not be able to create a Allegiance without changing Keywords

Deathlords cannot even use an Allegiance table because they are all named characters...

11 hours ago, shinros said:

Or perhaps all of them will fold into a new book? Since in a novel deathlords can be from human necromancers, vampires, wight kings, liche's etc. As GW said they rule over all the dead and I don't see nagash points value fitting into allies. Majority of the followers of nagash hope to be deathlords.

edit:Since if they release a deathrattle only book how the hell would you be able to run arkhan, neferata, mannfred and nagash etc? More allies I guess? Plus mannfred and neferata are like 400+ points and nagash is 900. 

Umm Skeleton and Zombies are still Battleline.. You have GA Death instead of Deathrattle/Deathlord Allegiance

11 hours ago, Veillotron said:

 

 

I wonder if they would consider combining all of these into one battletome, one faction. Basically all the leaders with the mindless hordes of skellies and zombies. It would make more sense then try to do a full Deathrattle battletome, unless GW releases a bunch of new models to support the faction.

 

 

Grand Alliance Death springs to mind

[Kramer]

12 minutes ago, Ragequit said:

Soulblight and Nighthaunt have the Leaders and Battleline requirements to make an army so why not Deathrattle unless they plan to have a new Battletome within the next 6 months (I am being generous)

 

Sounds generous indeed. If the GHB is a yearly release that would  mean rules and abilities could become obsolete with every release. So all factions that are left out now with the promise of a new tome... must be before christmas before people will already start to wait for the new GHB before investing. 

[AverageBoss]

Grand Alliance Death will get you by unless you want spells and other things that come from limiting yourself down to 2-3 kits. Pretty dull either way imo. Also, would be really annoying to lug around 7 hardbacks for the full updated rules of the models in some peoples armies.

[shinros]

2 hours ago, Ragequit said:

That is exactly why I am surprised why Deathrattle is missing from the group

Soulblight and Nighthaunt have the Leaders and Battleline requirements to make an army so why not Deathrattle unless they plan to have a new Battletome within the next 6 months (I am being generous)

Deadwalkers and Death Mages are 2 separate sub factions thus would not be able to create a Allegiance without changing Keywords

Deathlords cannot even use an Allegiance table because they are all named characters...

Umm Skeleton and Zombies are still Battleline.. You have GA Death instead of Deathrattle/Deathlord Allegiance

Grand Alliance Death springs to mind

This will not solve the problems death is facing it will make it worse no one will run the mortarch's or nagash if they keep it how it is now. Hence I am a firm believer that a chaos like tome would suit us better than a only deathrattle tome. 

Plus if they release a deathrattle only tome it breaks the start collecting box outright as I said before. If things remain how they are(If GW has not changed GA death traits etc) people are simply going to only run grand alliance death over the deathrattle only tome so they better hope their abilities and artifacts are good enough. 

This is just me but I have zero interest in a deathrattle only tome. Archaon can be ran in any chaos tome and benefit from the alligance abilities of said tome yet a similar model/ god of the faction the same thing cannot be done? I am quite sure GW wants us to buy the mortarch's and nagash kits but they are not giving us a good reason to do so. 

You wanna ran nagash in the deathrattle tome? The great pope of the dead? Granddaddy of all necromancy!? Well sucks to be you the supreme lord of the dead and those who rule over the dead(mortarch's) cannot use the spells in said tome and you are stuck with the generic grand alliance death traits have fun. 

In my mind if those abilities aren't good or the GA death is still the better option we will still be at square one again. 

[Ragequit]

1 hour ago, Kramer said:

Sounds generous indeed. If the GHB is a yearly release that would  mean rules and abilities could become obsolete with every release. So all factions that are left out now with the promise of a new tome... must be before christmas before people will already start to wait for the new GHB before investing. 

Sorry the word was escaping me.. Optimistic is what I meant

[wayniac]

I will probably stay almost pure Flesh-Eater Courts as I like their fluff.  Allies will give me the option to run a Court Wizard (i.e. Necromancer) or Winged Angels (i.e. Morghast) I guess, but that's basically it.  I'm more curious what the allegiance abilities will be...