There should be more to the Grand Alliances than what we have now

[WoollyMammoth]

When I heard about the alliances, I was very excited. I figured they were re-doing the system so that instead of getting a new model every 5-20 years, you would belong to a faction that gets new stuff every year.

Sadly this is not the case. The Grand Alliances just shoved everything together into 4 boxes. A lot of the stuff just doesn't even go together. It would have made more sense to just split everything into "good guys" and "bad guys".

Order, the "Good Guys" are 75% of all the releases. You would think they would organize it to be 1/4 or maybe 1/2, but its most of the releases. If you play "Order" you can pretty much pick and choose your favorite stuff; Drycha, a Carnasaur, Cannons a Star Drake. This kind of army would make no sense and so very few people do this, further emphasizing my point that the allegiances are just BS. Regardless, we have new stormcast and dwarfs coming that only further exacerbate the issue of order being a "grand supreme" alliance while the others are neglected.

Chaos, the "bad guys" get love as they always have since the dawn of warhammer. Each year is being dedicated to a chaos god now. There were the many bloodbound releases, the Archaon release, the Gorchosen and Silver Tower games and now the Tzeench releases. Chaos is not wanting for new stuff. You have all the mortal and deamon chaos stuff, and 4 different gods but it all just works together. Its not really odd to have a human sorcerer of Tzeentch summon some Nurgle daemons. But throwing Skaven in here really makes no sense. A Grey Seer can summon a bloodthirster now which is annoying from both a narrative and gameplay perspective. No one really does this though, again because the alliances are BS. 

Destruction is just goblins, orcs and ogres. They did a good job so far however with the Ironjaw release and separate Bonesplittaz to give different identities to the orcs, and with the BCR giving more identity to the ogors, Destruction feels more like a proper alliance. This is a good base level alliance that they should use to re-form chaos and order into smaller and more sensible alliances.  

Death is a sad joke. The last time they got a new model was 2014. In making their "grand alliance" they killed off Tomb Kings, cutting the faction in half. Now we have a "grand alliance" of one. Even though it is the smallest "alliance" it has received no new models in the AoS. Instead, there was the FEC which pretty much gutted what was left of death into one faction. Even this one faction is neglected, desperately needing a clampack for the Ghoul King and update to the resin Vargulf. The rest of the "Alliance" is a joke, you could not even make a faction army for most of them event if you wanted to. Death has no business being an alliance, which is my point that the alliances are BS.

The alliances did nothing but put all the models in 4 different boxes, some of them overflowing and getting new stuff all the time, others with almost nothing. They need to re-think this strategy, especially if they want to have more alliance competitions,  continue marketing based on the alliances and release alliance based books. 

I hope it was just a temporary way to keep things neat while they re-do all fantasy.  Hopefully after they sweep through and update all the factions, there will be some sort of new sensible organization. The alternative is to put a full stop on order and chaos and have two years of nothing but death and destruction releases until all 4 alliances have 10 full legitimate faction armies to choose from. 

 

[rokapoke]

Note that this game refers to the Age of Sigmar. He's sort of the god at the heart of the whole thing. Army releases are following the lore, which is currently still largely focused on the "good guys." I'm willing to see where GW goes in the near future before deciding that the system is inherently broken. Hopefully the new Stormcast book and unit cards will usher in a period of zero new Stormcast releases so that other armies get their day in the sun, but we should probably expect an Order release alongside any "bad guy" releases because of the storyline. 

[BlooDeck]

I am looking forward to what they do with Death, but yeah its going to be a long time before we actually find out.

And it'll probably be Undead Stormcasts.

[Mohojoe]

I was pretty sceptical of the whole alliance system. However I assumed this would be fleshed out as the lacking alliances were given a touch of priority. unfortunately this isn't the case. 

I am not here lamenting that my favourite army hasn't got the attention they deserve and I am not complaining about the releases we have got, they have been fantastic. I do however have to agree with you that the alliances don't seem to work fairly for each one. While it allows for interesting army composition, by allowing a player to choose from a grand alliance, I do think I would prefer going back to solid armies with individual motivations and diplomacy within the new AoS world. 

I would like to see a bit more equal start collecting boxes for alliances rather than it being a large selection of chaos forces and then  a few token other ones.

Alliances do have their positives. I love the alliance abilities and as a destruction player everything does seem to fit together well, as you mentioned, they are the one instance of an alliance done very well. I do wonder however if its the case of taking puzzle pieces from an old collection and trying to force them to fit together with the rest of them. It may be me being blinded by knowing armies from the 'Old World' and I would be interested to hear an unbiased view from a player with no interaction with GW until post AoS.

Ultimately I do like the alliances, I don't think they are awful nor do I think they are a negative addition to the game. I do think they need refining and I would love to comment on how but the answer is not obvious. Perhaps a 5th alliance would help, with shifting units about until things afe more even numbers wise. However where would you put everything? And would it be worth the investment from GW to even bother with it?

 

 

[Arkiham]

Funny enough, I wouldn't say stormcast are the good guys.

They'd be more than happy to carry out a "exterminatus " of a city suspected of being corrupted by chaos, just to ensure chaos is gone.

Dark elves aren't exactly good either, seraphon care only about killing chaos, elves care not of humans, sylvaneth couldn't care about mortal humans, 

Kinda running out of "good guys"

The releases are story driven. If you're following the story the releases make sense. 

[Thanatos Ares]

I hate to say this, but, I fundamentally disagree with EVERYTHING you've posted. (Not including models and their release dates)

I love the 4 Grand Alliances

Just because Sylvaneth & Stormcast are in the same alliance means they're always super best friends bro fist party time?? What nonsense.

The releases have been majorly Stormcast...

Well d'uh it's called Age of Sigmar and they're a completely NEW army so will need more than 2 new boxes of shineys...

Chaos has finally been getting some attention and is fascinating in its depth of lists available (for Narritive and Matched Play)

Destruction is awesome

Death despite having no new models and a battletome before allegiance traits et al are still amazing fluff wise for narrative play oh and did you see how death army's were at the masters??

I'm sorry if that came across as a little (or a lot harsh) but I really love AoS and it's direction.

(Also had a very long 8/9 days and almost zero sleep - yay 3 lil children [emoji23])


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[EvDJ]

16 minutes ago, Thanatos Ares said:

 

I love the 4 Grand Alliances

 

Pretty much what you said, having been involved in the hobby for over 20 years this new direction is great.  

I'm loving the freedom of AoS, as a narrative/open/fluff player this gives so many options for cool stories. Currently my stormcast are being lead through the realm of shadow by a mysterious group of dark elves, plus some dark and dangerous slyvaneth, at some point they will be joined by a vampire and his undead thralls in their mission to hunt down and destroy and growing darkness. At the same time my Chaos Dwarfs are slowly and surely enslaving the beastmen of the forests surrounding their fortress, hiring roving bands of chaos marauders, and making deals for slaves and cannon fodder with the untrustworthy skaven as they expand their realm. I've never had this freedom to do what i like before and I'm loving it...long may it continue!

[Kaleb Daark]

@Thanatos Ares I agree.

The alliances even in end times was not about good and evil, it was about law and order and death and testruction and that theme has been carried through.

There's years of writing and evolution left in this game. remember it took aeons for WHFB to get to it's 8th edition,  and so it will be for this game.

Fantasy battle seems an age away Realistically we're one and a half years in on this , and I can't see GW doing anything for at least four years if the decision to replace it was taken given the amount of money they've poured into it.  It's evolving, and growing.  so lets just give it a chance and see where it goes.

[SuperKick]

I'm sorry but what nonsense. 

I get it you're not getting the specific toys you want - get over it, have patience. 

GW is pumping out quality, they can't please everyone - 7 or 8 battletomes last year? Stormcast was only one of these and they're central to the story! I'm sure It'll be the same this year with another 7 or 8. 

The grand alliances is a great idea, throw a load of stuff down and play away. Not everyone is overly concerned with victory. 

What do people want from GW? blood? they're a model making company. 

 

 

 

[Russellbogentoff]

I like the grand alliances as they stand, and it's allowed me to use things I always wanted to but had no reason to take before.

i think in the future they will make more sense to the game as a whole, it seems to me that GW are trying to create 'factions within factions', and the alliances will allow those to be fielded together. As it stands, stormcast are (soon to be) 3 different subfactions within a faction within an alliance, and I expect this will be the case for many races.

That would allow them to do things like bring out single units for entire alliances in the future, which would be great and satisfy a number of players in one swoop!

[Marc Wilson]

Did PETA get to you? 

[chord]

I like the alliances but I do feel that with Allegiance abilities the alliances will matter less.  I almost wish they had more allegiance abilities that made cross faction armies more enticing.  It would I think add more variety to the armies out there.

[Barimbino]

Eh, it's only been a year and a half. I know, right, only a year and a half? Yeah, it's early days on a game that took an entire 180 at the one year mark with the release of the GHB. This changed the entire game and changed the battletomes. So everything that has been released is old news and won't work well with all the new stuff being released. They still have a ways to go and their last release schedule was insane. Just be patient and wait and see what happens.

[Mohojoe]

34 minutes ago, SuperKick said:

I'm sorry but what nonsense. 

I get it you're not getting the specific toys you want - get over it, have patience. 

He plays Stormcast so that particular jab probably wont land. 

 

I feel there is a bit of a backlash towards people who have disputes within AoS because of the amount of ****** we had to endure from people bitter about the old world being destroyed. I would hate to see people not being able to criticise the game without being shouted down for a differing opinion. Criticism is needed to evolve and it should be able to be given in a respectable manner and received in one.

However the title of this thread probably isn't helping your case. 

[MrCharisma]

The Grand Alliances are a wise move for the GW business and for the player. 

There is infinite cross-sell potential for GW as it breaks the mould of what an army looks like. They've made it easy for people to justify buying models. 

Players have a load of benefit too. Under the old Empire it was difficult for me to field Dwarves and/or Elves who found refuge in our mixed cities. 

Now I can include a unit of Stormcast as Sigmar's protectors, Dwarves and Elves under our General, or whatever I really want.

I'm hoping that Death and Destruction get the same love that Order and Chaos have received so far../

[Nico]

It's worth noting that Destruction received a triple whammy of Battletomes in the summer of 2016 after receiving rules for 10-12 Monstrous Arcanum specials before that. This revitalised two older factions and created a brand new one with new and indeed sensational models. They briefly became the strongest Grand Alliance (until the FAQ nerfed various older factions by deleting their Battalions and nerfing a few units). They are still very competitive and fun!

Even Death remain competitive (although plainly the worst GA post the FAQ update), but have been boxed into a handful of repetitive strategies relying upon Ward Save or Settra. 

[bottle]

I love the Grand Allaince idea, and I love collecting mixed Order and being able to expand any which way I want.

I see your main gripe though is you just want some new Death models. I can understand that, but know you are not alone. Sure if you look at it in terms of Grand Alliances, it's only Death who haven't had a new release in AoS, but remember for as many of us who play "Order" armies technically, back in 8th edition WHFB that meant a plethora of different things. Empire, Elves, Lizardmen etc have all lacked any new releases in AoS (excluding Silver Tower heroes, I guess) and in some ways we have it worse because we didn't get anything during the End Times whereas Death (or Vampire Counts) got quite a few cool new kits.

It's all coming, we just have to be patient :-)

Collect one of the other Grand Alliances in the meantime. In 8th edition I had an Empire army, now I have a fledgling force in each of the other Grand Alliances too making any miniature fair game!  

[WoollyMammoth]

I did not say that the factions were not cool, or that there is any issue with the AoS game, I simply pointed out that the factions are completely imbalanced and make little sense. For this reason basing campaigns and marketing on a 4 alliance system is inherently broken.

They could have done everything else exactly the same, but instead of "4 grand alliances" they could have made 8 in order to balance the game more, and it would have made more sense and been just as cool.

@rokapoke @Arkiham
The releases are only kind of based on the story. There have been all kinds of named heroes with no models. The Wardens of the Everqueen featured Sylvaneth long before they got models and Nurgle which hasn't received any new models (especially lacking in regadrs to the wizards and the old ugly  There has been units pointed out that don't exist. There has been much about Nagash, yet no undead releases. In particular, the 4 stories of the Knights of Vengeance followed the new stormcast and Ironjaws and FEC, but it also had a sea of bone where all kinds of awesome skeletal creatures were being risen, but there were no new undead models. 

In reality the story follows the models, not the other way around. They tell the writers what models they are making and the writers make stories accordingly. 

@Mohojoe
I'm not lamenting that I didn't get what I want or complaining that the new releases aren't great. Just pointing out that the alliance system is imbalanced and should be fixed or replaced. The allegiance abilities are great but just another band-aid. You think any Tzeench player is going to take chaos over all the new stuff they got? Right now since death has nothing at all they are essential but they could easily release a book of faction based abilities that makes them useless outside of multi-faction armies.  

@Arkiham
Purging is for the greater good. Obviously dark elves are iffy, they are a 'bad guy' faction lingering from 8th that only has some kind of weird crossover with the end times book that pretty much universally enraged every single dark elf player in the world. There are still about 15 other order factions if you take out the stormcast and dark elves, so you are not lacking for good guys. That's still more legitimate armies than you can make if you combined everything from Destruction and Death.

@Thanatos Ares
Stormcast and sylvaneth are 100% on the same side, and if there is a campaign, their cause is the same. Not sure what your point is. Stormcast and Sylvaneth are two of the most tightly bound factions. I myself have even fielded them together.

Thats a good point about stormcast being main releases. If you remove the stormcast books, you got 3 new order, 4 chaos and 3 destruction. Meanwhile Stormcast are about to get their third book, meaning they have got about as many as the entire other factions. However death is sad with only 1 new faction book. If you simply ignore Stormcast, the problem is mostly just  ignoring death. 

I'm not saying that the individual factions are not awesome, I'm just saying that the Alliances are terribly unbalanced and they are not doing anything to remedy that.

@SuperKick
I have many thousands of points of order, chaos and death so, no I'm not whining that I didn't get any cool new toys. I'm sure there will be a lot of times this year, but they need to start to balance it out if they want to use the alliances for campaigns and marketing. Doesn't have anything to do with winning games or making GW bleed. They made 4 alliances, I simply want them to follow through on that idea and seek balance.

@Russellbogentoff
Already I know you likely play order, maybe chaos. Because if you were deep into death or destruction, its unlikely there was anything you were missing out on before, just a re-organization of stuff you already owned.  Meanwhile order and chaos have tons and tons of cross faction stuff to delve into.  

@Barimbino
It does not appear they are seeking balance, rather more imbalance. Now while there is talk of free peoples and dwarves and elves, a new stromcast book drops. Its starting to be Order vs everything else (or good vs evil as I said). GW gave me hope for balance when they created the  

@Mohojoe
I cant change the title. I guess its more important to say that the fact that their lack of any balance is BS but I only have so many words.

@MrCharisma
Exactly my point, lets spread the love around more

@Nico
Its not really about competition. I don't want the strongest army I just want balanced releases which is what the Alliance idea seemed to infer.

@bottle
My complaint is about balance, Death being completely neglected is the biggest reflection of imbalance. I dont ahve a complaint about destruction only because their releases have been very good but I don't play them. 

I have large armies of Stormcast, Wanderers and Seraphon and some Sylvaneth. I also have a ton of Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh Deamons, and probably more Skaven than anything else. Yet, I am still annoyed at GW lack of balance with the alliances. 

----

Its funny all you Order players defending that everything is fine. 

[Thanatos Ares]

Well said@WoollyMammoth

Sensible and well thought out responses. A credit to yourself and indeed the nature of most folks on this forum. Healthy debate that helps us all see others opinions. All done respectfully.




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[SuperKick]

41 minutes ago, Mohojoe said:

He plays Stormcast so that particular jab probably wont land. 

 

I feel there is a bit of a backlash towards people who have disputes within AoS because of the amount of ****** we had to endure from people bitter about the old world being destroyed. I would hate to see people not being able to criticise the game without being shouted down for a differing opinion. Criticism is needed to evolve and it should be able to be given in a respectable manner and received in one.

However the title of this thread probably isn't helping your case. 

Fair enough I'm not against criticism at all. 

However it becomes tedious reading post after post complaining that something or other isn't getting the support they feel it deserves.

Not that it is the case here but in general it would be nice to read a thread of something you're excited about without it being hijacked by someone jabbering on how this army is undeserving of new stuff for x reason. 

Perhaps my response should have been posted somewhere else, maybe the title did spark something. 

I'd love to see a central wish list location or a criticism and how we could improve section. 

[Mohojoe]

Just now, SuperKick said:

Fair enough I'm not against criticism at all. 

However it becomes tedious reading post after post complaining that something or other isn't getting the support they feel it deserves.

Not that it is the case here but in general it would be nice to read a thread of something you're excited about without it being hijacked by someone jabbering on how this army is undeserving of new stuff for x reason. 

Perhaps this should have been posted somewhere else, maybe the title did spark something. 

I'd love to see a central wish list location or a criticism and how we could improve section. 

I think thats a fantastic idea and would probably make it easier for any visiting employees to actually sift through the goldmine of information on this forum.

[WoollyMammoth]

@SuperKick
I post all kinds of posts. My last thread about how fantasy is growing and its awesome. There is a lot of cool stuff in AoS and I love it, but their lack of alliance balance, compounded with the campaigns highlighting the imbalance, and then all the rumors which seem to point at only more imbalance is really getting to me.

That said I love all the alliances. I got my FEC ready for LVO, then last night I painted some Tzeentch Acolytes and I'll be buying the hell out of the new stormcast stuff. I appreciate all the releases I just wish they were more balanced based on the 4 allegiances. 

[polarbear]

I don't care much about the release schedule, but thematically/narratively I think they missed the boat on the alliances too. They are super generic and boring concepts for a world as supposedly wild as AoS. They make very little sense. They could have done way better and I'd be all for a retcon of the alliances into something more interesting, unique and possibly fluid.

[TerrorPenguin]

Imagine a world where we knew we were going to get bi-monthly battletomes and they went Order; Chaos; Destruction; Death. With new models on each release.

Imagine how excited you'd be to see what was appearing in July for your army, knowing a time that you would be waiting for, to see what GW had in store for us next. Knowing that what you're collecting might not be up to the standards of your friends armies at the moment, but that you knew that you were getting at least one, maybe two battletomes this year that would be shaking up the units that you had.

At the minute I imagine they are not selling much death stuff as people wait and see. 

I don't get GW's approach to releases. Where they could be generating so much excitement (holy ******, if I saw Nagash's face full art in a back page of White Dwarf with May 2017 printed on it I would be cancelling the family holiday) instead they go very short term with little trailing. I mean, they clearly know their market better than me, but as a customer it's pretty frustrating.

[TerrorPenguin]

1 minute ago, polarbear said:

I don't care much about the release schedule, but thematically/narratively I think they missed the boat on the alliances too. They are super generic and boring concepts for a world as supposedly wild as AoS. They make very little sense. They could have done way better and I'd be all for a retcon of the alliances into something more interesting, unique and possibly fluid.

Agreed, it seems like they started with the names and slotted stuff in from there, rather than running with the blank canvas they had