Jamopower

Does the Hold the line prevent the units from piling in? I somehow remember that it used to be so that "pile in move" and "move" were different things, but apparently it's not like that any more as the rules specify "move" to be any kind of move and "normal move" to be the one you do on your movement phase. Don't get me wrong, it's much clearer this way, but it does make the command ability a bit worse.

I got my first game in with Living city in AoS2. The multiple combat abilities worked just as I thought. I had pretty mishmash army as I haven't got time to paint more freeguild due other games, but it still worked fine: Freeguild general on griffon Freeguild general on horse, general with Inspiring Warden king Runelord 30 Dwarf warriors with 2h axes and shields 30 Halberdiers 10 Archers 3 Kurnoth hunters with scythes in ambush 5 tree revenants and extra command point to round it to 1500 I played against Tzeentch a scenario from the Tzeentch book, where the Tzeentch player has a table to roll objectives while the enemy tries just to kill everything. He had equally soft list with Ogroid thaumaturg, a Daemon prince, a Chaos sorcerer, Herald on disc, 3x5 chaos warriors, 3x3 flamers and 3 screamers. Got my griffon and dwarfs in on turn two and they pinned the army on place until the Kurnoths came to help. The runelord kept the magic at bay and without bonuses to casting it was pretty ineffectual in any case. It was very nice to be able to use the griffon lord's ability and hold to line, whichever was more needed and on critical turns both of them. The warden king also used his ability once, but it didn't matter much. The warriors with the runelord giving rend -2 were a great unit, while my halberdiers were all shot by the flamers

I'm just happy that it's quite unlikely I'll ever see Kroak on a table. I played today against a Tzeentch army with three units of flamers, ehich is quite a good example of the general power level at our tables

I would say that even 20 mw reliably from a single unit on a single phase is too much, as one wound is on average about 20 points.

106 mortals is actually the average if you get to roll three times d6 wounds against ten units. Not that likely, but not that unlikely either. The biggest problem is that the targets are destroyed before the full salvo. I would believe that getting more than 50 MW against chaos should be very common with the range buffs.

Don't know if the army is completely broken, but getting a lot of good stuff on top of an already very good army for free will surely matter. I think it's quite good indication that something is wrong when there is a tweet from a Seraphon player after the first major tournament wishing for a nerf for his own army...

I can imagine that the fun starts to disappear for the Kroak user as well after a while. Especially so if the available opponents start to disappear It's amazing how they have not done anything for the points of Seraphon in the new book when everyone sees straight away that they became much better. Maybe they didn't focus for the old factions too much.

I'm 100% sure the Seraphon won't make it 'til next GHB without some errata to tone them down. Good example of their current brokoness is the six nations tournament, where Kroak had done 106 mortal wounds in a single hero phase. Doesn't sound fun for anyone.

I guess it will change with the new Edition...

At least in the 6 Nations lists there were a lot of Engines (and ripperdactyls) and almost all teams had Seraphons. So I guess that's somewhat telling of the initial perceived power of the army and its units. 220 points sure is a bargain for the Engine. At least one of them should be found in every Lizzie-list. I have been looking at something along the lines of this for my autumn painting project. I have all of the models needed (all saurus are old metal) and a lot of painted skinks with squares waiting for motivation to do something for them: Slann Scar Veteran on Carnosaur Engine of Gods 40 Saurus with spears 2x5 or 1x10 Saurus guard 10 Skinks 3 Kroxigor Total: 1500 points Should be fun to play and able to handle everything, but at the same time won't be too powerful to keep the game fun for both players. The idea is to summon the skinks, salamanders and such and have the heavier stuff on the table from the beginning. Previously I have wanted to have bit more punch when I have been playing with seraphon and the saurus should give plenty of that.

Now that I think it, ability to first harrass the enemy with seekers and then later in the game to replace them with summoned daemonettes feels pretty nice. I wish the seekers were a battleline unit though

You need to get bit lucky to win in the trade-off if you're using 240 points of troops for tying up enemies. That list also looks like it will have hard time keeping any objectives for longer than one turn. Which is the main problem for me when I play with Slaanesh. Many of the scenarios are such that you need to take the objectives early and keep them to be able to win. All of the games I had on Sunday ended up on turn three to a situation where the other player couldn't anymore win because of the early lead in victory points. I also don't think that getting to combat on turn one is not so useful as it sounds, as most often you're only able to charge some screening units and the chargers die on counter charge. You might get some depravity on the go, but the big guys are so important for the longer game, that you don't want to lose them on turn one. Getting most of your stuff on the objecties and using small seeker units to block the enemy movement, should be nice, and should be easy to achieve, as even without any bonuses they have 14+4d6" (+2 if within 12" of daemon hero) range for charging, and the new scenarios have shorter distance between the armies (some have even just 9" from the opponent). Thus I don't see the cogs have much of a use for Slaanesh. The movement is nice for the summoned units, but you start to see them around turn three and the ability to cast two spells is worthless for Slaanesh as we don't have any good spells to cast. Especially if you have to babysit the cogs somewhere in the corner to be out of the unbind range. The geminids look much nicer, but they are still pretty hard to cast on 7+ as you'll also be inside the unbind range for sure when doing that. If the opponent has any bonuses to unbind, it might be tricky to get them on the table at all. I would prefer to use those points on extra command points as the Slaanesh command abilities are so good. Also comparing 9" charge for summoned unit with +2" from cogs to re-roll from command point, there is only 10% difference in the probability. Both are close to 50/50. Of course with both it's even better.

I'm inclined to modify my Living city / Mixed order force in such way with the new command abilities, that I have subgroups for which I can use the command abilities on. Feels thematically cool and should be good enough on the battlefield as well. So I could have warden king leading the Duardin contingent, Freeguild general (on Griffon) for the Human part and then a Wanderer or Sylvaneth Contingent. Though the Sylvaneth abilities are maybe not so useful. Also the treelord ancient summoning forests, that are now free combined to Branchwraith summoning dryads there sounds like it has some amount of synergy with the outflanking. It could look something like this: Freeguild General On Griffon (260) - Lance Treelord Ancient (300) Branchwraith (80) Runelord (100) Warden King (120) UNITS 40 x Freeguild Guard (280) -Halberds and Shields 3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200) -Scythes 30 x Warriors (240) -Double-handed Duardin Axes & Shields - Runic Icon 10 x Liberators (200) -Warblades (the flanking unit) 5 x Judicators (160) -Skybolt Bows TOTAL: 1940/2000 Feels nice and balanced. not too tough, but should be good enough to have a proper fight against most of the stuff. Maybe bit of additional shooting wouldn't be bad, but I don't have Kurnoths with bows. In 1500, which i mostly play, I could drop the Warden king and the kurnoths and downgrade the general to horse mounted version.

It's the same for generic death and the new nighthaunt. Probably will change for the LoN as well at some point.

Additionally, played three games yesterday with my Slaanesh in a small release tournament in our FLGS. We played 1500 point games without endless spells. I had Pretenders with: Keeper with supremely vain and the -1 to hit Lord on steed with breathtaker (that I wasn't able to use a single time) Sorcerer lord on horse 2x20 daemonettes 2x5 seekers 5 chaos warriors 5 knights and a single extra command point. Two of my games were against complete beginners with Kharadrons and Tomb kings, so there was nothing much to say about those. Lost against Ironjawz in the shifting objectives. Destroyed most of the opponent's army and had quite strong position with the summoned troops, but as the main objective stayed whole game at the same place where most of the orcs were, I lost it. Fun game though. Some notes: Seekers are nice for running after the travelling objectives, but very dependent on the amount of available room on board. They are bit expensive to use just for harrasment and baiting. Depravity points are very easy to get, in the first game against KO got 29 in four turns, in the second against Ironjawz 40 in four turns and in the last against TK about 30 in two turns, even when I was quite light on heroes. In the second game I managed to summon a unit of 20 daemonettes that managed to charge and destroy a big unit of ardboyz. Extra command point was very useful. In the first game the combat erupted only at the third turn, so I was able to use the double pile-in command ability on four different units, which was as devastating as it sounds. Essentially I had four extra units on combat for a turn. Magic was pretty worthless. The few times I got the spell through from the Sorcerer lord it was nice, but overall effect on both sides was very minor. In the ironjawz game we got in total of maybe 3-4 spells through with 3 wizards on table. It's fun how the Oracular visions is essentially a mystic shield that you don't have to cast. However with the bad saves on Slaanesh troops, it's not very useful. My mortal part was just a speed bump. The list would have been a lot better if I just had more daemonettes and a second keeper instead of them. If I had the models, I probably would run something like this in 1500 points: 2 Keepers of secrets Daemon prince 2x30 daemonettes 10 daemonettes 5 hellstriders extra command point.

Good luck getting the cogs off on the first turn. Even with supremely vain, the chance is pretty low. Even if you can cast it so that the opponent is not in dispel range, it's just bit over 2/3 chance with the supremely vain and about 50/50 without. On dispel range it's half of that if the opponent doesn't have a bonus to unbind, and bit over half if you have the +1. And even if you get it off, the opponent can just deploy bit further away from you.

Ah, I see, but I thought it was so obvious that a model is friendly if it's your own that didn't even think there would be anything strange.

It's same as many others and answered somewhere in the faq, that within includes also the one where it is measured from. There are plenty of similar rules in the game.

Well there is little logic to many of the costs as the costs are mostly based on what the units used to do in the AoS1 during the last "season". It's exactly the same thing as with e.g. the Engine of the gods. Points remained the same, but it sprouts a new unit of ~120-150 points every second turn on average. Rippers don't actually change so much as they dish out amazing amount of damage even without the infinite attacks when you hit stuff during your turn close to the bloat toad. Apart from that, they die very easily and the single beak attack doesn't cause that much damage even with "inifinite" multiplying attacks. Without the shadowstrike warhost it can be hard to get them to the desired target intact so that the bloat toad is also there so the points are not necessarily so far off. The faq answer for the spells is because there was uncertainity if spells are classed as abilities. In my eyes it's clear that rippers do extra attacks as it is written in the warscroll, but the clarification that the new attacks don't generate new attacks is for units such as Daemonettes where is only written that on a hit roll of 6+ they generate a new attack and no mention about what happens the attacks generated by this way. That said, it's very possible that they'll do an errata for the warscroll at some point. Fun thing by the way in the errata and faq.In the faq it was said that the newest version of the warscroll is always used, but in errata for the grand alliance books, there is said that the scrolls for Seraphon etc. are superceded by the ones on battletomes. Now I'm sure that there are no differences between those, but the Grand alliance books are newer than the first battletomes

Just use the command ability several times. (What comes to amount of attacks, no one beats 40 skeletons with few uses of +1 attack command abilities topped with Vanhel's...)

No he's still shrouded in mystery.

I don't believe getting heroes just for their ability to generate depravity points (i. e. Die) is very valid strategy as it's like in a casino. The house always wins. You'll lose more points than you're able to summon. Daemon princes on the other hand look good as do kippers. I wish I had a second of them.

Are the allegiance abilities and traits more or less the same as before? I'm thinking about taking part in a release tournament next sunday and would probably buy the ghb from there. Still, general idea of the abilities would be nice while making the list. My initial list I had in mind for 1500 is: Keeper Sorcerer lord Slaanesh lord on steed 2x20 daemonettes 2x5 seekers 5 knights 5 warriors Extra command point.

Nevermind

Sounds great, but just as long as they do this after they fleshen out the Slaanesh mortals selection... Blood warriors and blightkings are after all more or less marked chaos warriors, so it would make sense that the general stuff would be the undivided masses. They should hire the guy who made the models for the Adrian Smith Studio McVey game Hate though...