Mwatts25

Definitely some ideas from those images, i take it the undead horse is from alliance death stuff, shouldnt be too hard to find, then a bit of minor edits to front legs to add talons, then i just add a pair of wings(fortunately have some extras From a damaged pegasus knights set) use my dremmel tool t grind out a few “bald” patches in the feathers, use some greenstuff to add a few feathers into the mane a bit. Could be good

I am currently working on a rather large diorama of my Bretonnian army facing off against Mallobaude. And I want to do something I haven’t seen as yet. A zombified hippogryph(i played with skeletal, but i want the hippogryph wings, not fused on bat wings like most flying skeletal mounts) my problem lies in trying to find the best mini to customize in such a way, i know i dont want either of the louen models for it, i want it to be very differently posed, more like a pissed off and ferocious animal thats been beaten into submission( think the hippogryph equivalent of those circus bears 5 minutes before they turn on their handlers. If anyone has suggestions, I’d really appreciate it

Ok, to properly get Bretonnians back into the running as a truly viable army that doesn't need dice rolls from selling your soul to win, the first thing to look at are the things taken away from the Bretonnians via the transition from whfb to aos(blessing of the lady, peasants duty, all the magic items, the vow system, the lance formation, and a few others) now you have to consider ways to reintroduce them that fit with the AoS system(for example, blessing of the lady and peasants duty as endless spells, knight vows as heroic traits, and with some minor tweaking a few of the magic items could come over). However, the biggest hurdle is the lance formation. The inability to form knights into lance formation basically makes the Bretonnian knights the same or less than empire equivalents. So, because lance formation is incompatible with aos game play, the stats would need to be adjusted to compensate for their tactical loss of formation. Even in Lore, Empire knights couldnt compare to Bretonnian ones in terms of pure skill skill, So stat wise they should have higher stats to match their higher cost

Lorewise, the next King would be one of Louen’s grandchildren(his heir, Jasperre Le Beau, was a confirmed end times casualty, but he Likely had several children via his wife, Louen’s daughter Isabeau). The correct Heraldry for whom would be a crowned gold dragon with a quartered field of yellow over white on the < side, and on the > side red over blue(or crowned gold dragon over a split yellow and red field). There is no mention of Jasperre having children, but the possibility of that is a viable story to go into. also, while the first Lilleath did die, she did so after having granted 95% of her power(guessing, i know it was most of her power) to her daughter and naming her the new Lilleath. The current lady of the lake is now running her own realm as part of a trinity of deities(her, Gilles, and Louen). Additionally, there are a lot of lore friendly opportunities for new units in the realm of dreams(Lilleath was the elven goddess of dreams and prophecy, so she was more prepared than most for end times), for example all dead grail knights were resurrected, then all grail knights were made into demigods(sort of like stormcast eternals are kinda like demigods), all questing knights were turned into new, non demideified grail knights. So the current knight rankings would be squire->errant knight->knight of the realm->questing knight->grail knight->Paladins of the lady( Last one is my idea, not a lore thing). you could also bring the lost sons of Bretonnia into this, as either magic cavalry or as a light cav with anti-magic properties

Turns out, Im just missing one important figure to recreate the lot. The questing knight that is used to make Pietre, the one that has a sword with a book wrapped around the blade, and ebay has not been helpful

Thanks, I am currently working on acquiring one of him, just wanted to make sure I had everything he came with. I may swap standard shield for one of the a-typical embossed empire shields(ie no skulls hammers or laurels, maybe the dog or sea serpent ones)

This is true, but lorewise they retconned it a bit, and explained only the city of Languille utilized them, due to their constant raids by pirates and their habit of letting their peasants scavenge the ships.

Did the limited general have a unique embossed shield or did he come with a standard shield?

Playwise, it definitely is sound, lorewise, its an abomination......brets dont do cannons....they aren’t particularly fond of dwarves either for that matter

Tileans and estalians had a huge rivalry with Bretonnian’s over many things, including horse breeding, if you look at the lore of some of the mounted dogs of war heroes, it goes into it a bit. But the biggest thing that ties FEC to Tilea, Estalia, and the border princes is their origin beliefs, specifically about Ushoran “the handsome”(whose unsurprisingly a character from the old world, the first strigoi vampire). His “kingdom” was situated in the Badlands just south of the eastern edge of the border princes and just east of the tilean peninsula.

I get what you are saying, but honestly that still sounds more like Tilean’s and Estalians more than bret’s imo

I would tend to disagree as to how Bretonnian lords behave in regard to the lower classes compared to how the FEC treat their lower classes, lorewise, the FEC see themselves as much more tolerant and accepting of the peasants than 90% of Bretonnian lords, and the few bret lords who did treat their serfs in any positive way were seen as odd, eccentric, or even as criminals and heretics. The Bretonnian lords had it ground into them from birth that a peasant was simply a tool meant to aide his lord in furthering his goals. These tools were to be protected from malignant forces(orcs, skaven, undead, chaos, the wild hunt, etc) but only to prevent the loss of that tool. The FEC are (in their own minds) concerned about their “peasants” in a slightly less teutonic manner. also, the addition of those two rules really should be brought back officially, as without them the power creep for the new armies is ridiculously slanted against brets. They have pricy mages who deserve the lance formation’s protection, the lance formation itself only grants 2 extra attacks for a relatively small unit of cavalry(assuming a unit of 8 knights with a mage in the pocket.) and the blessing comes at sacrifice to first turn in game

You could reinstitute the 2 rules that granted equal footing to the bret’s in wfb, those being lance formation and lady’s blessing rules

Even that isnt quite accurate, Bretonnians are/were elitist snobs who were isolationists and segregationists. the FEC view themselves as glorious magnanimous rulers bringing the delights of their lifestyles to others(but in actuality spreading zombie and ghoul infestation like a plague)

FEC is what remains of Tilea, Estalia, the border princes and some of the VC factions, not Bretonnia(the only exception you could possibly make is a single cities occupants, that being Mousilon, but that is not canon to the lore)

You really can’t use gw’s sales as an indicator for faction popularity. Gw sales on certain factions were low due to the gw dual trend of increasing price and reducing miniature quantities and quality. This led people to buy offbrand minis instead

I understand you saying that that was your final post, and I understand that the topic is about Mannfred, you were the one who brought tomb kings and Bretonnia into the discussion. I was simply expanding on it by emphasising that the games Workshop sales numbers are not an accurate indicator of any factions popularity, especially given gw’s regular trend of simultaneous price point increases and mini quantity reduction. Even the Empire and old chaos units are being phased out(Empire completely due to sigmarines, chaos is phasing out old and integrating new) also, the price point on ebay is partially affected by the oop situation, but that doesn’t explain similar minis from other manufacturers that are still in production having their price point increased, and the producers being temporarily sold out due to demand quite frequently.(again the manufacturers i am referring to are fireforge games, and the miniature solutions or TMS, as well as a few others). As for Mannfred, he has multiple awesome minis throughout the editions, but lore-wise I truly cannot stand him, his actions in resurrecting Nagash split the defences of the old world and hastened the endtimes irreparably, and in the end, he still ended up getting smacked to lackey status by Nagash.

Im not saying the sales weren’t bad, im saying they were bad because of gw’s marketing. With both Tk and brets, they were charging ridiculous prices for their unit boxes. 3 pegasus riders for 50 USD, vs 8 pistoliers on horseback for 40 USD. Tk had boxes of 3 ubshati golem guys similarly priced vs much larger unit counts in vampire counts equivalents too. These price point differences led to go to other vendors for higher quantities of cheaper units. All gw saw was dwindling sales, when in actuality they were losing sales to other companies. If the popularity for the armies wasnt high, the pricepoint on ebay wouldnt be as high as it is now on ebay.

Tbh there is no point anymore, the more new factions they make, the less useful the alliance’s are, my bet is the alliance rules will be dissolved in about a year

You really should get your facts straight. the sales for TK and brets weren’t down because of a lack of interest, they were down because of the ridiculous price point gw was putting on them, which led people to buying alternative minis from other companies, like tms, fireforge, etc. Gw saw this, and in a fit of pique, canned the lines

Honestly, as of now, aos is just so tilted towards trying to get people to play the new armies that there is very little chance of Bretonnia getting equal treatment, by that I mean they won’t be given any assistance via rule updates, decent synergy with ga:o resources, or any real faction bonuses. Gw wants us all to reinvest in their new products rather than allow the old armies to function. From a business standpoint that makes sense, but from a community standpoint it’s absolutely deplorable. Your only hope is having decent buddies that are willing to help you test out some homebrew until you create something decent(neither o.p. nor ineffective) that you can attempt to submit to a gw representative, in the hopes they might add it to the rules in a rulebook addendum or an annual compendium.

Im curious about the rules for these characters, I have the materials in spare minis to remake(possibly) all of them, and would like to attempt to remake a set for use in games(not tournament play, just games with friends) as well as a display set