WillofNagash Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 Does Vlad cost points to resurrect? As Valten apparently doesnt... can anyone give me a good interpretation of this rule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightFire Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 31 minutes ago, davidslv said: It seems I've been wrong all along. “Spells or abilities that allow you to add models to existing units don’t cost you any reinforcement points” - Since Skarr is dead, there's no existing unit to add him so I have to account for extra 120 points Honestly, I'm pissed of, the only reason I bought it was because of that ability, there was nothing in the 4 pages of rules that said I couldn't and I though what was written on the warscrolls was the rule. My bad being new and not knowing the rules properly. I am pretty sure that any club games will allow you to bring him back for free, and you could probably get many tournaments to agree to it too (except the very large ones, and they will probably only say no because they dont want to open the floodgates of "if skarr can, then why cant my vampire lord on zombie dragon" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oppenheimer Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 39 minutes ago, ThatOneMatt1 said: So I have somewhat of a followup question to the above. If Vlad slays an enemy hero with his spell, does that mean I have to pay the points out of my reserve to replace it with a Wight King? Don't worry. It'll never work anyway. You have to do the last point of damage, to a hero, successfully cast the spell and beat his bravery. It was a stupid spell even before the reinforcement points nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Griffin Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 34 minutes ago, ThatOneMatt1 said: So I have somewhat of a followup question to the above. If Vlad slays an enemy hero with his spell, does that mean I have to pay the points out of my reserve to replace it with a Wight King? Yes, it costs reinforcement points in Matched Play. Any new unit added to your army costs points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOneMatt1 Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 So I have somewhat of a followup question to the above. If Vlad slays an enemy hero with his spell, does that mean I have to pay the points out of my reserve to replace it with a Wight King? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernalslayer Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 9 minutes ago, Sleboda said: Riiiight, but my point is that many people might play by matched play rules, and calling them names because they do seems to be bad form. I always do play with matched play rules, but in friendly non-tournament games we always put common sense and fun first before taking the rules as written in stone and of course both players will agree on something ambiguous before the game starts It was meant as a light hearted nod to good sportsmanship and friendly players. At least, i personally haven't heard the word "Grinch" used to offend or trigger anyone in a bad way before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Infernalslayer said: The official rules also do not take bases into account and measure model to model, but tournaments house rule to measure base to base (which i support for the sake of simplicity and smoother gameplay). Riiiight, but my point is that many people might play by matched play rules, and calling them names because they do seems to be bad form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernalslayer Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Sleboda said: Orrrrrr ... they are playing by the rules of Matched Play. The official rules also do not take bases into account and measure model to model, but tournaments house rule to measure base to base (which i support for the sake of simplicity and smoother gameplay). However, there are models that probably will never see the competitive scene and suffer even worse by this rules-lawyering, some good examples mentioned in this thread. Don't get me wrong, i am mostly playing casual matches with matched play rules, and in a scenario like this, most people are quite chill and that helps for more unique army lists and models in the table, thus more fun for everyone involved, unless it is obvious to everyone that the game would become unbalanced into one player's favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleboda Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 On 5/1/2017 at 2:20 PM, Infernalslayer said: Anyone says otherwise is a grinch, in my opinion Orrrrrr ... they are playing by the rules of Matched Play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelmaster Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 4 hours ago, davidslv said: Honestly, I'm pissed of, the only reason I bought it was because of that ability, there was nothing in the 4 pages of rules that said I couldn't and I though what was written on the warscrolls was the rule. This is something that bugs me about AoS. “Only four pages of rules”. Yeah… and seven pages of FAQs & erratas (that's just for the "core" rules), four pages of "Pitched Battle" rules, another two pages of FAQ's and Erratas for those, and the "Hints & Tips" page and "Warcroll Battalions" page, printed in each battle tome and grand alliance book, both of which have important rules which can affect the game but almost no-one thinks to read them because almost no-one expects them to contain actual rules… Then there's stuff like the Balewind Vortex. Obscure, broken up over multiple documents, yet a potentially game-breaking model that every competitive player needs to be aware of. Competitive AoS is not easy to get into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FRoper Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 in all honestly i would rather character with reserection abilities have increased points and it being free. rather tahn taking it out of reinforsement points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oppenheimer Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 56 minutes ago, Arkiham said: as death players abused it. instead of bringing back some dude on foot it had to be the vampire lord on zombie dragon. and that's all you saw. given that the ring is free and that your vampire lord on dragon costs no points to resummon (initially ) you were gaining a massive increase in value, and that normal models who can rebirth themselves have a points value and if you look at their profiles they arent normally a game winning model just some meh hero It's not not like it comes back with full health. It only comes back with D3. There are plenty of overpowered things in AoS. Death just gets picked on whenever someone comes up with a new idea on how to make them competitive and then they get nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 2 hours ago, KnightFire said: I am pretty sure that any club games will allow you to bring him back for free, and you could probably get many tournaments to agree to it too (except the very large ones, and they will probably only say no because they dont want to open the floodgates of "if skarr can, then why cant my vampire lord on zombie dragon" as death players abused it. instead of bringing back some dude on foot it had to be the vampire lord on zombie dragon. and that's all you saw. given that the ring is free and that your vampire lord on dragon costs no points to resummon (initially ) you were gaining a massive increase in value, and that normal models who can rebirth themselves have a points value and if you look at their profiles they arent normally a game winning model just some meh hero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidslv Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 It seems I've been wrong all along. “Spells or abilities that allow you to add models to existing units don’t cost you any reinforcement points” - Since Skarr is dead, there's no existing unit to add him so I have to account for extra 120 points Honestly, I'm pissed of, the only reason I bought it was because of that ability, there was nothing in the 4 pages of rules that said I couldn't and I though what was written on the warscrolls was the rule. My bad being new and not knowing the rules properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightFire Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 There is no rule in any of the GW rules that says rolls don't cost reinforcement points. The rules say that if it dies and comes back to life then it costs reinforcement points. Some tournaments and clubs house rule for specific things (like skarr) because they aren't overpowering, but these are specific house rules on a per model basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 18 minutes ago, davidslv said: Uh? That's just not what the ability requirements are. “After he has been slain, roll a dice at the start of each battleshock phase if at least 8 models have been slain during the turn. On a roll of 4 or more, the Slaughterborn rises from a swirling pool of blood; set up Skarr Bloodwrath anywhere on the battlefield more than 9" from the enemy.” has to be slain needs 8 models to be slain needs a roll of a 4+ to be alive it's not summoning Someone just made it up and everyone followed along without questioning, there's 3 factors for Skarr to be back in the game and that roll of a 4+ is not easy, the turn he died maybe only 5 models were slain... adding points into this in my opinion is incorrect. Btw, if that helps (on Skarr matters) at London's Calling it was decided it doesn't require reinforcement points: This interests me for the Hammers of Sigmar 6+ Liberator unit resurrection. Do rolls mean no reinforcement points now? Phoenixes have rolls too right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidslv Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 11 hours ago, Arkiham said: if skarr has to pay to resurrect according to the community, so should everyone. Uh? That's just not what the ability requirements are. “After he has been slain, roll a dice at the start of each battleshock phase if at least 8 models have been slain during the turn. On a roll of 4 or more, the Slaughterborn rises from a swirling pool of blood; set up Skarr Bloodwrath anywhere on the battlefield more than 9" from the enemy.” has to be slain needs 8 models to be slain needs a roll of a 4+ to be alive it's not summoning Someone just made it up and everyone followed along without questioning, there's 3 factors for Skarr to be back in the game and that roll of a 4+ is not easy, the turn he died maybe only 5 models were slain... adding points into this in my opinion is incorrect. Btw, if that helps (on Skarr matters) at London's Calling it was decided it doesn't require reinforcement points: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarmofseals Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 2 hours ago, David Griffin said: If a unit is slain and comes back by any method, you must pay points in Matched Play. The reason this rule doesn't apply to Valten or the Hell Pit Abomination is because it explicitly says in their scroll the they are not slain. Of course you can do as you please in Open Play. This is the correct answer. You can add Tyrion to the list of models that have an ability that works like Valten's. Basically, if the rule states that the unit doesn't die or "is healed instead" or some such you don't pay reinforcement points. If the model dies and then gets set back up again, however, you have to pay points again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oppenheimer Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 3 hours ago, Infernalslayer said: I do not know how they would play that in tournaments, but in friendly games i would always let you use such ability without reinforcement points. It is essentially the same character being resurrected and as Baldobeardo says, that ability must have been taken into account when his point cost was calculated. Anyone says otherwise is a grinch, in my opinion I agree. The answer is "yes". But it's also: that was a dumb ruling and GW should be ashamed. Hopefully you play with a group of guys who can just ignore that and let him resurrect without penalty as his fluff always intended. He already had a 1 in 6 chance of having it fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Griffin Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 If a unit is slain and comes back by any method, you must pay points in Matched Play. The reason this rule doesn't apply to Valten or the Hell Pit Abomination is because it explicitly says in their scroll the they are not slain. Of course you can do as you please in Open Play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 if skarr has to pay to resurrect according to the community, so should everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernalslayer Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 I do not know how they would play that in tournaments, but in friendly games i would always let you use such ability without reinforcement points. It is essentially the same character being resurrected and as Baldobeardo says, that ability must have been taken into account when his point cost was calculated. Anyone says otherwise is a grinch, in my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaldoBeardo Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 It's virtually identical wording, so it's the same logic.For me personally, it's a one-shot ability that is on his warscroll - so as far as I'm concerned it's already been costed into his points.Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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WillofNagash
Does Vlad cost points to resurrect? As Valten apparently doesnt... can anyone give me a good interpretation of this rule?
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