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Does Vlads resurection cost points?


WillofNagash

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11 hours ago, Arkiham said:

if skarr has to pay to resurrect according to the community, so should everyone. 

Uh? That's just not what the ability requirements are.

“After he has been slain, roll a dice at the start of each battleshock phase if at least 8 models have been slain during the turn. On a roll of 4 or more, the Slaughterborn rises from a swirling pool of blood; set up Skarr Bloodwrath anywhere on the battlefield more than 9" from the enemy.”

  • has to be slain
  • needs 8 models to be slain
  • needs a roll of a 4+ to be alive
  • it's not summoning

Someone just made it up and everyone followed along without questioning, there's 3 factors for Skarr to be back in the game and that roll of a 4+ is not easy, the turn he died maybe only 5 models were slain... adding points into this in my opinion is incorrect.

 

Btw, if that helps (on Skarr matters) at London's Calling it was decided it doesn't require reinforcement points: 

 

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18 minutes ago, davidslv said:

Uh? That's just not what the ability requirements are.

“After he has been slain, roll a dice at the start of each battleshock phase if at least 8 models have been slain during the turn. On a roll of 4 or more, the Slaughterborn rises from a swirling pool of blood; set up Skarr Bloodwrath anywhere on the battlefield more than 9" from the enemy.”

  • has to be slain
  • needs 8 models to be slain
  • needs a roll of a 4+ to be alive
  • it's not summoning

Someone just made it up and everyone followed along without questioning, there's 3 factors for Skarr to be back in the game and that roll of a 4+ is not easy, the turn he died maybe only 5 models were slain... adding points into this in my opinion is incorrect.

 

Btw, if that helps (on Skarr matters) at London's Calling it was decided it doesn't require reinforcement points: 

 

This interests me for the Hammers of Sigmar 6+ Liberator unit resurrection.

Do rolls mean no reinforcement points now?

Phoenixes have rolls too right?

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There is no rule in any of the GW rules that says rolls don't cost reinforcement points. The rules say that if it dies and comes back to life then it costs reinforcement points. 

Some tournaments and clubs house rule for specific things (like skarr) because they aren't overpowering, but these are specific house rules on a per model basis.

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1 hour ago, Sleboda said:

Orrrrrr ... they are playing by the rules of Matched Play.

The official rules also do not take bases into account and measure model to model, but tournaments house rule to measure base to base (which i support for the sake of simplicity and smoother gameplay).

 

However, there are models that probably will never see the competitive scene and suffer even worse by this rules-lawyering, some good examples mentioned in this thread.

 

Don't get me wrong, i am mostly playing casual matches with matched play rules, and in a scenario like this, most people are quite chill and that helps for more unique army lists and models in the table, thus more fun for everyone involved, unless it is obvious to everyone that the game would become unbalanced into one player's favor.

 

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1 hour ago, Infernalslayer said:

The official rules also do not take bases into account and measure model to model, but tournaments house rule to measure base to base (which i support for the sake of simplicity and smoother gameplay).

 

Riiiight, but my point is that many people might play by matched play rules, and calling them names because they do seems to be bad form.

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9 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

Riiiight, but my point is that many people might play by matched play rules, and calling them names because they do seems to be bad form.

I always do play with matched play rules, but in friendly non-tournament games we always put common sense and fun first before taking the rules as written in stone and of course both players will agree on something ambiguous before the game starts :D

It was meant as a light hearted nod to good sportsmanship and friendly players. 

At least, i personally haven't heard the word "Grinch" used to offend or trigger anyone in a bad way before.

 

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It seems I've been wrong all along.

“Spells or abilities that allow you to add models to existing units don’t cost you any reinforcement points” - Since Skarr is dead, there's no existing unit to add him so I have to account for extra 120 points 

Honestly, I'm pissed of, the only reason I bought it was because of that ability, there was nothing in the 4 pages of rules that said I couldn't and I though what was written on the warscrolls was the rule.

My bad being new and not knowing the rules properly.

Screen Shot 2017-05-02 at 13.46.00.png

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31 minutes ago, davidslv said:

It seems I've been wrong all along.

“Spells or abilities that allow you to add models to existing units don’t cost you any reinforcement points” - Since Skarr is dead, there's no existing unit to add him so I have to account for extra 120 points 

Honestly, I'm pissed of, the only reason I bought it was because of that ability, there was nothing in the 4 pages of rules that said I couldn't and I though what was written on the warscrolls was the rule.

My bad being new and not knowing the rules properly.

 

 

I am pretty sure that any club games will allow you to bring him back for free, and you could probably get many tournaments to agree to it too (except the very large ones, and they will probably only say no because they dont want to open the floodgates of "if skarr can, then why cant my vampire lord on zombie dragon"

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2 hours ago, KnightFire said:

 

I am pretty sure that any club games will allow you to bring him back for free, and you could probably get many tournaments to agree to it too (except the very large ones, and they will probably only say no because they dont want to open the floodgates of "if skarr can, then why cant my vampire lord on zombie dragon"

as death players abused it. 

instead of bringing back some dude on foot it had to be the vampire lord on zombie dragon. and that's all you saw. given that the ring is free and that your vampire lord on dragon costs no points to resummon (initially ) you were gaining a massive increase in value, and that normal models who can rebirth themselves have a points value and if you look at their profiles they arent normally a game winning model just some meh hero

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I do not know how they would play that in tournaments, but in friendly games i would always let you use such ability without reinforcement points.

It is essentially the same character being resurrected and as Baldobeardo says, that ability must have been taken into account when his point cost was calculated.

Anyone says otherwise is a grinch, in my opinion ^_^

 

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34 minutes ago, ThatOneMatt1 said:

So I have somewhat of a followup question to the above. If Vlad slays an enemy hero with his spell, does that mean I have to pay the points out of my reserve to replace it with a Wight King?

 

Yes, it costs reinforcement points in Matched Play. Any new unit added to your army costs points.

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39 minutes ago, ThatOneMatt1 said:

So I have somewhat of a followup question to the above. If Vlad slays an enemy hero with his spell, does that mean I have to pay the points out of my reserve to replace it with a Wight King?

 

Don't worry. It'll never work anyway. You have to do the last point of damage, to a hero, successfully cast the spell and beat his bravery. It was a stupid spell even before the reinforcement points nerf.

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56 minutes ago, Arkiham said:

as death players abused it. 

instead of bringing back some dude on foot it had to be the vampire lord on zombie dragon. and that's all you saw. given that the ring is free and that your vampire lord on dragon costs no points to resummon (initially ) you were gaining a massive increase in value, and that normal models who can rebirth themselves have a points value and if you look at their profiles they arent normally a game winning model just some meh hero

It's not not like it comes back with full health. It only comes back with D3. There are plenty of overpowered things in AoS. Death just gets picked on whenever someone comes up with a new idea on how to make them competitive and then they get nerfed.

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If a unit is slain and comes back by any method, you must pay points in Matched Play. The reason this rule doesn't apply to Valten or the Hell Pit Abomination is because it explicitly says in their scroll the they are not slain.

Of course you can do as you please in Open Play.

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4 hours ago, davidslv said:

Honestly, I'm pissed of, the only reason I bought it was because of that ability, there was nothing in the 4 pages of rules that said I couldn't and I though what was written on the warscrolls was the rule.

This is something that bugs me about AoS.

“Only four pages of rules”.

Yeah… and seven pages of FAQs & erratas (that's just for the "core" rules), four pages of "Pitched Battle" rules, another two pages of FAQ's and Erratas for those, and the "Hints & Tips" page and "Warcroll Battalions" page, printed in each battle tome and grand alliance book, both of which have important rules which can affect the game but almost no-one thinks to read them because almost no-one expects them to contain actual rules…

Then there's stuff like the Balewind Vortex. Obscure, broken up over multiple documents, yet a potentially game-breaking model that every competitive player needs to be aware of.

Competitive AoS is not easy to get into.

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3 hours ago, Infernalslayer said:

I do not know how they would play that in tournaments, but in friendly games i would always let you use such ability without reinforcement points.

It is essentially the same character being resurrected and as Baldobeardo says, that ability must have been taken into account when his point cost was calculated.

Anyone says otherwise is a grinch, in my opinion ^_^

 

I agree. The answer is "yes". But it's also: that was a dumb ruling and GW should be ashamed.

Hopefully you play with a group of guys who can just ignore that and let him resurrect without penalty as his fluff always intended. He already had a 1 in 6 chance of having it fail.

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2 hours ago, David Griffin said:

If a unit is slain and comes back by any method, you must pay points in Matched Play. The reason this rule doesn't apply to Valten or the Hell Pit Abomination is because it explicitly says in their scroll the they are not slain.

Of course you can do as you please in Open Play.

This is the correct answer. You can add Tyrion to the list of models that have an ability that works like Valten's. Basically, if the rule states that the unit doesn't die or "is healed instead" or some such you don't pay reinforcement points. If the model dies and then gets set back up again, however, you have to pay points again. 

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