Jaehaerys Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Won't get an answer until next FAQ but you can email them at a specific FAQ email address now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelfric Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 9 hours ago, Baz said: The exact wording is: "This is the unit’s move for that movement phase" We can ask GW for clarification but wont know until the next FAQ which is in July. It's slightly frustrating because at the beginning it says "can leave to travel along hidden pathways instead of making a move", thus managing to contradict themselves in the same passage. The FAQ for set-up is inconclusive, although the word "move" is not used. As you say, we will have to wait for a more definitive official answer, I suppose. Ah well,until then, perhaps now is a good time to invest my time and money adding to the few units of Daughters of Khaine I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WABBIT Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 They are just more wardancer custom bits to me I have too many Wardancers as it is Ill have to ebay down my collection a little so I can squeeze some of those lovely new dark elves into my collection. Not sure snakes fit my wanderer/highborn theme though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 a very valid point, so it can be broken down into 3 parts: 1. Instead of making a move. 2. A setup 3. This is the units move for that movement phase. Pretty confusing rules writing, I will fire off an email to GW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origin Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Really sloppy stuff, such a shame. I'll email them as well. Hopefully if we bombard them with the same questions they'll be swifter in their response Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 email sent, got a thanks email and apparently another faq is due in March. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidings Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 I guess for my next tourny I will msg all this to my TO. If he says yes, Stalker of Hidden Paths can be used to set up in combat, and it replaces my move but is a setup (not an actual move), then I might play Wanderers instead of mixed Order. Cause that allows for actual synergy with our abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledha Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 "count as a move" and sentence of this type don't have any incidence for being able to set-up then act. It's mostly here to preventing people to set-up then move/run. Every teleport ability (sylvaneth hidden path, stormcast redeployment sheaningan) have sentences like this. It doesn't make it a move, mostly because set-up don't follow the rules that moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeled Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 I'm still very confused and I think I will ask the question as well. We definitely need clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awcamawn Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Wait, so does this mean that every time a Waystrider uses the Realm Wanderers ability and the 'set up is complete' does he gets to roll for his Heartseeker Arrow ability if he can see the enemy general? Not something that would suddenly make him 'viable' for competitive players but makes him a bit better if you're already using him from time to time. Heartseeker Arrow: After set-up is complete, roll a dice if the enemy general is visible to at least one Waystrider from your army; on a 5 or more that general suffers a mortal wound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someone2040 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 27 minutes ago, awcamawn said: Wait, so does this mean that every time a Waystrider uses the Realm Wanderers ability and the 'set up is complete' does he gets to roll for his Heartseeker Arrow ability if he can see the enemy general? Not something that would suddenly make him 'viable' for competitive players but makes him a bit better if you're already using him from time to time. Heartseeker Arrow: After set-up is complete, roll a dice if the enemy general is visible to at least one Waystrider from your army; on a 5 or more that general suffers a mortal wound. I think that 'set-up' is meant to imply setting up both armies is complete. Not when the model is placed onto the board. Also supporting that, in Open Play you don't designate your General until you've finished setting up all your models. So at the time that the Waystrider is first placed on the board, in Open play he would't have an eligible target making the rule pretty stupid if it was done any other way than after setting up both armies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WABBIT Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 15 minutes ago, someone2040 said: I think that 'set-up' is meant to imply setting up both armies is complete. Not when the model is placed onto the board. Also supporting that, in Open Play you don't designate your General until you've finished setting up all your models. So at the time that the Waystrider is first placed on the board, in Open play he would't have an eligible target making the rule pretty stupid if it was done any other way than after setting up both armies. Aha! RAW or RAI!? One works at tournaments and the other with friends....well like minded friends at any rate Set up appears to be a type of move now and not just at the beginning of a game - its when units enter or Re-enter the game. Is it foggy in here or is it me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origin Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Well even if the Waystrider did fire off a Heartseeker arrow every time he popped around the board he is still a rubbish Hero. I'd be paying 240 pts for a shot at 1 MW a turn. Woo hoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 I remembered today that the Lord Aquilor's command acuity astral compass rule is very similar to the Realm Wanderers rule. In fact the wording is almost identical. However when you consider the rapid fire rule used by Vanguard Raptors with Hurricane crossbows then it all falls into place. A common tactic is to use the astral compass ability to move the raptors so they can use the rapid fire ability. As the raptors are set up in the movement phase and don't actually move they can use the rapid fire ability. No question about this as I've seen this tactic used at tournaments. The more I think about it the more I am certain that abilities that require units to stand still (quicksilver shot, precise shot and fortress of boughs) can be used with the realm wanderers rule. Its also clear that the sentence regarding it being their move for the movement phase is there to stop people from moving their units once they have been set up, and does not mean that the unit has moved. As mentioned previously I have contacted GW about this, however the more I consider this in light of the Lord Aquilor and compass ability, the more I am certain that we can use the stationery abilities on units when using the Realm Wanderers ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origin Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 I can't believe we all missed it, all this time. And of it wasn't for a little battle report we'd never have picked it up. Cheers Baz.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WABBIT Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 It makes sense but some will still argue over it. It needs clear ruling once and for all. Personally I would allow it as the model does not move in the normal sense. It is a set up and in the case of Wanderers it allows them to use their allegiance ability with their warscroll abilities otherwise what the hell are GW thinking writing rules that contradict each other so badly? That does not make sense. Gone are the dark clouds that had me blind! Gonna ba a Bright Bright sunshiny day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelfric Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 In the new rules FAQ under " What is a set-up, exactly?", it says "or to change the location of a unit on the battlefield without having to make a move". I reckon this makes it clear that a set-up is not a move and this is an official definition from GW. As Realm Wanderers is a set-up then units have not moved, and I would say that Eternal guard can put on Fortress of Boughs before using the trait and Sisters of the Watch can shoot twice after using it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelfric Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Well, just been down to the local games store and the owner there is happy to play that Realm Wanderers is a set-up and not a move and therefore won't affect EG and S of the W, which is great. Also, that Stalker of the Hidden Paths allows set-up within 9" of enemy units but restricted to wholly within 6" of board edge. Have organised a 1500 pt game for Friday evening - facing Cunnin Rukk! My enthusiasm to add to my Wanderers is back on ( well, it really didn't need much ). The only tournaments I have done have been small ones in the store anyway, so if he's happy, I'm happy. All sorts of strategies have started to open up. Not played against Cunnin Rukk before, so that'll be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graftonianman Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 I don’t agree with the Stalker of the Hidden Paths allowing units to deploy within 9” of enemies. There’s no valid argument for this. The absence of clarification in the FAQ is not a ruling the FAQ is not a summary, it’s a place for clarification. The FAQ clarified wording which could be misread: Stalker reads “...6” of any edge...” and could mean not ‘wholly’ within that edge because it contradicts wording in the Realm Wanderers rule, implying exception. (Wending Wand also has confusing language which was clarified in the FAQ.) Stalker says that you are using the Realm Wanderers rule. All restrictions of that rule are in effect except for those that are excempted directly by Stalker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WABBIT Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 So if it's generally accepted that the Lord Aquilors command ability astral compass rule allows you to make use of SCE warscroll abilities that can only be used if you didn't move in the preceding turn why wouldn't Wanderers with Realm wanders/Stalker hidden paths rule also be able to do that? I agree it needs a firm FAQ but until then it's hardly fair to allow it for SCE and not for wanderers and there is the Common sense approach which says why would anyone invent an allegiance ability that runs contrary to all that armies warscroll abilities? GW cant be that stupid or cruel everyone makes mistakes and this just needs an FAQ to clear it up once and for all. This does not just affect Wanderers. Set up "moves" are a fairly global rule that needs greater scrutiny. I don't play Tournaments so I don't know if the its widely accepted that the Lord Aquilors ability allows Raptors to "Set up and machine gun fire" but until it's clear I'd allow it basis of common sense even if it is a little powerful. The Raptors and Lord Aquilor go together in the theme so why create a new general with rules that don't support the new warscrolls to accompany it? Ask yourself, would you use it as is (count as move so no Bough of spears, Shoot twice SotW, etc..)? Because of that many don't but if you could set up and shoot twice with overpriced sisters of the watch then I think GW sales may go up and we may stop complaining about 240pts for 10 archers that cannot shoot twice because they "set up"! We may see even more elves playing again. After 3 years It's really nice to see some elf armies back this year even if it took an OP Frost phoenix to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graftonianman Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 I’m curious how the “counts as move” and teleport thingy will be faqed. It’s a little iffy as it is. Thanks, Baz for that reference. I’m going to use the Realm Wanderers rule as a “setup” not a “move” until I hear otherwise from someone with more authority than little old me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelfric Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 2 hours ago, Graftonianman said: I don’t agree with the Stalker of the Hidden Paths allowing units to deploy within 9” of enemies. There’s no valid argument for this. The absence of clarification in the FAQ is not a ruling the FAQ is not a summary, it’s a place for clarification. The FAQ clarified wording which could be misread: Stalker reads “...6” of any edge...” and could mean not ‘wholly’ within that edge because it contradicts wording in the Realm Wanderers rule, implying exception. (Wending Wand also has confusing language which was clarified in the FAQ.) Stalker says that you are using the Realm Wanderers rule. All restrictions of that rule are in effect except for those that are excempted directly by Stalker. You have a valid point and up to now I have been playing it as being more than 9" away - even being wholly within 6" as well. The alternative interpretation as I understood it was that the Stalker of the Hidden Paths trait gives new criteria for re-entering the board which does not place restriction on distance from the enemy as per the standard battle trait. I heard mention that this interpretation had been accepted at some events. The FAQ amended this from within 6" to wholly within 6", but did not mention distance from enemy units. I suppose it depends on whether you think that Stalker changes, and supersedes, the whole of the returning rules or just some. Having re-read the battle trait (several times), there is a comma between the wholly within part and the 9" distance part and that does imply that they are two distinct rules and not two parts of one rule, which would lend weight to your interpretation. It is all a bit up in the air! I think I will just continue to play it as I have been until there is more clarity, as I don't like to feel I might be abusing the system. But as @Baz has given us the the evidence for set-up over move for the trait in general with the Lord-Aquilor example, which was a great piece of detective work, I'm more than happy just to get that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Aelfric said: You have a valid point and up to now I have been playing it as being more than 9" away - even being wholly within 6" as well. The alternative interpretation as I understood it was that the Stalker of the Hidden Paths trait gives new criteria for re-entering the board which does not place restriction on distance from the enemy as per the standard battle trait. I heard mention that this interpretation had been accepted at some events. The FAQ amended this from within 6" to wholly within 6", but did not mention distance from enemy units. I suppose it depends on whether you think that Stalker changes, and supersedes, the whole of the returning rules or just some. Having re-read the battle trait (several times), there is a comma between the wholly within part and the 9" distance part and that does imply that they are two distinct rules and not two parts of one rule, which would lend weight to your interpretation. It is all a bit up in the air! I think I will just continue to play it as I have been until there is more clarity, as I don't like to feel I might be abusing the system. But as @Baz has given us the the evidence for set-up over move for the trait in general with the Lord-Aquilor example, which was a great piece of detective work, I'm more than happy just to get that. The new faq regarding set up makes it clear: "Models can set up within 3” of the enemy, even if they are set up in the movement phase, unless noted otherwise." So as written you can set up in combat if using Stalker of the Hidden paths. GW dropped the ball by missing out the relevant distances on stalker of the hidden paths and the wending wand. Rectified this on the faq but once gain missed out on clarifying the 9" away from the enemy. Ultimately its up to you how you want to play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graftonianman Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 @Aelfric: Ah, I see your argument. Still, I’m not sold. There are 2 requirements when deploying troops with Realms: wholly within 6” of the table edge and 9” of enemies. Example: Wending Wand says “...anywhere within 18”...” The word ‘anywhere’ could allow you to ignore the 9” from enemy requirement. GW corrected the wording error in the FAQ. This is not the case in Stalker. There is no wording that allows you to ignore the proximity to the enemy in the text of the Stalker rule*. Stalker only gives leniency on which table edge can be chosen for teleport. The FAQ that Baz references is not applicable because it is noted in the Realm Wanderers rule that you can’t setup within 9” of the enemy. *unless you consider both requirements together, like what Aelfric argues, but that is a bit weak; I’m sure I could find an example that contradicts this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graftonianman Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Dangit. Thanks guys. I’m rereading things and am second-guessing myself. Didn’t someone email GW about this? How long is the turn time on that, usually? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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