Introducing AoS to other gamers

[stickybluetoffee]

So I'm struggling in my local group to convince others to give AoS a try. Most are still stuck in the "old world death hate" and unable to see that a system with 4 pages of rules can possibly offer any tactical depth (associating AoS and tactical depth is regarded as a joke round here). Having played only a dozen-or-so games I can already see its depth and love it immensely, but finding the words to convince others of that.

So if all you've got is words, what words would you use?

[Thornshield]

It's only words
And words are all I have
To take your hate away

I wouldn't waste my words on them personally. But you could show them some WHTV streams of the top tables (since it sounds like tactical gameplay is what they want). Demo games would be an easier path, show rather than tell.

If anything, perhaps start by treating it as a simple game that's easy to pick up but as they play it, they'll begin to realise there's a lot under the surface. Saying it's a super deep game despite 4 pages (excluding interactions between warscrolls etc) when they have their current mindset is unlikely to change their thoughts.

[EvDJ]

5 minutes ago, Thornshield said:

I wouldn't waste my words on them personally. But you could show them some WHTV streams of the top tables (since it sounds like tactical gameplay is what they want). Demo games would be an easier path, show rather than tell.
 

I think the first games Dan Heelan commentated with Rob at Adeptacon would be perfect for this, was a really enjoyable watch and had some really great and indepth tactical conversations as well.

[BaldoBeardo]

Yeah, go with the twitch, or get them to watch a game between two players who know what they are doing.
Problem with demo games is they would be, by definition, simple.
Which would probably confirm their view that it's a game for children...

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[Double Misfire]

This battle report video from @Terry Pike and the Facehammer guys is an excellent intro for AoS sceptics and I really wish they'd make more:

 

[Terry Pike]

We are going to be making more videos like this.

They take a large amount of time to produce though so we are looking into different options

[Double Misfire]

53 minutes ago, Terry Pike said:

We are going to be making more videos like this.

They take a large amount of time to produce though so we are looking into different options

Franchise out and hire a post house.  

[stickybluetoffee]

I think the hard thing is that I think some guys do want to give it a go, but the negative press from others is putting them off.

Maybe I need to be a bit cleverer and try to persuade them directly rather than it becoming chat on group forums.

[mmimzie]

If you have two armies or they still have one of thiers try to get them to do a game with you, but you can only push so hard before you become a ******.

You have to understand that they have a rather reasonable, but seemingly irrational, opinion of AoS. People hate change. They spent years learning the fantasy system. I'm sure many of them new it sucked, but they stayed stubborn for thier  game in light of competitors like x-wing and hero clix. As such thier skin has hardened to negativity toward the world of warhammer fantasy. In this light AoS is just another X-wing/Hero clix. To play AoS in, there mind, maybe they feel they'll need to keep up thier defenses. 

[Dez]

I think using XWing as an argument is a great idea. It's a simple set of starter rules, yet each different card/ship adds another layer of tactical nuance. Same could be said for Warscrolls and scenarios from The General's Handbook.

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, stickybluetoffee said:

I think the hard thing is that I think some guys do want to give it a go, but the negative press from others is putting them off.

Maybe I need to be a bit cleverer and try to persuade them directly rather than it becoming chat on group forums.

 

I tend to agree with Auticus - sadly it sounds like your efforts are probably doomed. 

That said, if you're going to try and convert them then I suppose the thing to do is to make it as easy as possible for them to try the game, and make damn sure that their experience is a good one - leave nothing to chance. My suggestions:

Don't expect them to part with any money - if they're already skeptical they're not going to invest in models, books, etc. You'll need to have at least 2 armies assembled and painted that you can just shove under their noses at your regular club night. Perhaps even 3-4 1000pt armies so that as many of your friends as possible can get involved using a 4-player battleplan - make it more of a shared experience rather than trying to convince them one by one.

Yep, that's right, I said painted armies - attractive models will be harder to resist than bare plastic.

Don't get bogged down with too many extra rules in the first game, since it will slow down the action and give them a chance to get bored - so consider dropping Time of War Rules, Allegiance Abilities and maybe even scenery rules.

Make the table you're going to play on look awesome - use as much scenery as you can.

And perhaps most importantly, choose your battleplan carefully. Don't pick anything that might give credence to the misguided idea that AoS games always end up as a scrum in the middle of the table (army and unit selection will also be a factor in this). Choose something dynamic that gives both players plenty to do and interesting decisions to make. If your friends are ultra-competitive types maybe pick a Matched Play battleplan over a Narrative one.

[Dez]

Some great suggestions here, and I have another to add to it. When giving demo games, start with the basics in the first round. Let them start to think for themselves a bit, referencing scrolls and remembering turn order. In round 2, don't give as much guidance in basic game mechanics...most people that are wargamers should have it by then. Now what you want to do is suggest tactical options and why you'd choose them. This will be where they learn the opportunities for strategy/tactics in AoS. Make sure you drop these jewels evenly

I like playing Gift from the Heavens for intro games.

[Vash1313]

I make sure to always use a battleplan when introducing someone to the game, especially a former WFB player. Without a scenario, the game can tend to become a mosh pit in the middle, which will frustrate your attempts to demonstrate the game's tactical nuance.

[stickybluetoffee]

I've actually often used border war as an introductory scenario - one key goal is to show that a "big brawl in the middle" (one of the preconceptions many have) won't win the game.

Of course it's sometimes hard to not smash them in points when they play that way. One of my best introductory games though was when I retreated from combat to score 4 points. That opened my opponent's eyes very wide. He's now a convert.

[Gaz Taylor]

Personally you need to ask yourself why do they want to play. I've spoken with lots of people about this since AOS came through but the common theme that runs through is why they play the game. Many people loved the older versions of Warhammer due to it using units in blocks of rank and file infantry and this is often what I've found is the reason why they aren't that interested in AOS. For others it's the rules and how they see them, as they really enjoy using a game with pages and pages of rules.

I've been doing wargames for *cough* 25 years *cough*, from a young lad to now and I love how the rules are now. I love the fact it's easy to pick up but has enough stuff in the game to make it a challenge to master and it's where I'm hoping 40K will go.

So basically, if they aren't interested, it's not going to work.  

[Dez]

Yeah Border War is a really good scenario to convert veteran players for sure. 

[Popisdead]

5 hours ago, Thornshield said:

I wouldn't waste my words on them personally. 

I agree with this.

 

Remember the changes in the modern game systems aren't to appease the old guard but get new players.  Companies need to adapt to what X-wing has done not keep a bunch of crotchity old-man gamers who are bitching about "the good old days".

[Galas]

The 10-14 years range, here its where you need to look to find the next generations of AoS. I had have 0 problems introducin my little cousins and nephews to Age of Sigmar, Wargames, Tabletop, etc...

The only problem with this is, if they aren't your  family, maybe some people isn't comfortable with the idea of kids playing with a grow old-man that still play with plastic toys  

In my case, they just love that I'm their personal free babysitter ("Free", because I introduce their innocent childrens to the plastic crack! HAHAHAHAH! ) 

[KillagoreFaceslasha]

I by and large look for border war or, if they have units already, introduce them to a campaign book's battleplan that uses their miniatures.

[Veterannoob]

they just need to see a live game where people are having fun. It's great the 40K crowd coming over, even more so with 8th ed happily coming up.

[Dez]

We get lots of 40k and especially Magic players watching our games.