Updates and Fixes for Terrain Rules

[WoollyMammoth]

The terrain rules are excellent. They add variety to the game and create unique opportunities for strategy and tactics. I personally use the terrain dice with every game I play. Unfortunately, I am seeing more and more how certain terrain can not only effect the game, but directly determine its outcome. In addition, it can often be annoying to use, or easy to forget.

Here are some key examples of issues where terrain can determine the outcome of a game.
- A key unit gets befuddled by mystical terrain at a pivotal point....
- A massive archer unit is ensorcelled and can re-roll its wounds for several turns....
- A deathstar melee unit gets +1 to hit with damned terrain (or +2!)....
- A deadly forest in your deployment, or blocking an objective on your side only puts you at a huge disadvantage...
- A wizard with an incredibly powerful spell is between two Arcane Terrain pieces....

With the current terrain rules, terrain can often be annoying, or even flat out ruin your experience . Sometimes it can feel like you lost to random terrain and not your opponent. Personally I feel like terrain should play an important part in the game, but should never feel completely dominating or totally useless - but somewhere in between. Here are some ideas to make that happen:

Arcane Terrain
Works well but could use a check to avoid stacking.

-Update-
Models which are completely on this terrain feature can add 1 to any casting or unbinding roll.

Sinister Terrain
Pretty uneventful and could use a change

-Update-
Units currently within 3" of this terrain feature must add 1 to any battleshock test. Any units which starts the Hero Phase within 3" of this terrain feature are Ominous until your next hero phase. When an Ominous unit uses a bravery based attack, ability or spell, the targeted units bravery is counted as 1 less.

Inspiring terrain
Easily forgotten as well as often uneventful

-Update-
Units which are wholly on this terrain feature may subtract 2 from any battleshock test, and count their bravery as 1 higher in defense against any bravery based attack, ability or spell. 

Deadly Terrain
This is probably the #1 reason why people don't play with terrain rules. Deadly terrain can cause a massive issue, creating a black hole in the map that you cannot afford to deal with. Also, the terrain is totally useless in regards to houses or towers which you are mainly moving around. The primary issue is probably the slowdown you have to deal with while every individual model rolls a D6.

-Update-
Roll a D6 each time a unit runs or charges across, or onto this terrain feature. On a roll of 6+, D6 models in the unit are slain. If models in this unit have 2 or more wounds on their profile, only one model is slain. Heroes and/or Monsters can ignore this rule. 

Mystical Terrain
The chances of being befuddled are very slim, but can be completely game changing if it happens. More often than not, re-rolling wound rolls creates an incredible advantage, especially when dealing with hordes and/or protected archers.

-Update-
In your Hero Phase, roll a D6 for each unit within 3" of this terrain feature. On a 1 or 2, the unit is befuddled and has -1 to wound until your next hero phase. If the roll is 3+ the unit is instead ensorcelled & you can re-roll failed wound rolls of 1 for this unit until the next hero phase.

Damned Terrain
By far the most powerful and influential terrain piece that can be easily abused. Powerful melee units can easily take advantage of this to pile on a +1 to hit on top of other potent abilities. Worse, there is nothing in place to stop a unit from doubling down on two damned terrain pieces. Damned terrain often determines the outcome of a game. 

-Update-
Any unit within 3" of this terrain feature can make a sacrifice in your Hero Phase. If so, the unit suffers D3 mortal wounds, and may re-roll hit rolls of 1 until your next hero phase. 

--

Applying these fixes will make terrain more of a influence that effects the game rather than a determining factor. With more balanced terrain, it may start to be more popular, and accepted even in tournament and competitive settings.

[TerrorPenguin]

7 minutes ago, WoollyMammoth said:

A deadly forest in your deployment puts you at a huge disadvantage.

You might be doing this in the wrong order. You should roll the terrain, then roll to see who chooses a side. Not roll for sides before the terrain.

[WoollyMammoth]

@TerrorPenguin
Thanks for the tip. That is how I play it, but either way, someone is at a serious disadvantage due to the severity of deadly terrain. The main issue is annoyingly have to roll for every model, which is silly and slows down the game.

[Arkiham]

should move it back to more logical things like;

-1 to hit a unit with the majority of its models entirely within in a wood from ranged attacks, -1 to hit to ranged attacks from models within a wood and reintroduce marshes, rivers and hills.

these are rules i plan to use once i finish setting up my battleboard for narrative play and maybe matched with friends 

+1 save near a wall for models within 2" of the wall against attacks from the opposite side of the model, if using spiked barricades, when charging or running over the barricade, mounted non monster units must roll a d6 per model. on 6+ model suffers d3 mortal wounds.

no running through a marsh, and half all movement. monsters/flying ignore this. 

rivers half movement when passing through the river, roll a d6 for non mounted models, on a 5+ the unit is unable to run, charge, or shoot until its next movement phase as it regains its footing and reforms

 

( raging river ) roll a 2d6 when a unit enters the river on a roll of a 12, d6 models have succumb to the waters and drowned, monster units ignore this, heroes suffer d6 mortal wounds and are unable to run/charge or shoot and suffer -1 to hit in combat as they regain their composure 

Hills. -1" to runs/charges going up hill, +1" to ranged attacks for models on the top of the hill, +1" movement when charging/running down hill & +1 to wound rolls for units on the charge. 

models in a building ( garrisoned ) shooting have increased ranged and to wound but decreased accuracy.

models within a Witchfate tor/watchtower/Skullvane manse/deathknell watch/Skullkeep all gain +3" range & +1 to wound and -1 to hit.

Unsure on this one, it seems a lot to keep track of. 

 

but the others seem more logical and should not stem the flow of the game and make using the terrain more of a thing, how it would in a real situation 

[Carnelian]

I like your ideas but i would keep it simpler.

I would change Deadly terrain to d3 wounds full stop.

I would change sinister to -1 bravery if within 3" and keep inspiring to +1 bravery if within 3" (as is) .  I would specify these work for bravery attacks as you have done.

[WoollyMammoth]

@Arkiham
you are more taking about basic terrain rules than mysterious terrain rules. Now all terrain is just +1 to save and that's it. They have terrain rules for special pieces of terrain, what you are taking about would be to replace the +1 save rule with a set of rules for each kind of basic terrain (forest, river, hill, etc). The reason why it is not this way is because (A) they wanted to make it much more simple and (B) they wanted to encourage more fun varied terrain (realmgate, dreadhold, archway, occulum) instead of the played out forest-river-hill scenery. AoS is designed to take place in crazy realms with ruins and realmgates more often than just a field with a forest and river. Basically they could make defualt forest-hill-river rules which could, in addition be mysterious and so be Sinister, Inspiring, etc. But this creates two sets of custom rules which creates a lot you have to know for terrain. So AoS is kept simple with, all terrain is stuff that gives you +1 to save, and might do mysterious stuff. Though since every piece of terrain already does have its own set of rules, you could argue they mine as well give basic terrain some rules too.

@Carnelian  
Simple is good. D3 is kind of played out but that is fine. Sinister and Inspiring being this thing that you carry is kind of silly, everybody forgets. My idea is to make it static which you agree, but then it becomes less useful tactically. That's why it has to be more of an impact; -2 to battle-shock if you can use it to your advantage. In regards to sinister, it can be cool if you catch someone in it, but it cant be +2 because that will be extremely powerful to a unit that will not normally lose key models to battleshock - liberators for example. +1 is good but it also needs to be something you can carry if you need to use it offensively, like say a banshee. Not sure how to simplify that. 

[The Jabber Tzeentch]

I feel like making the changes you suggest wouldn't really affect the game in any meaningful way. It's still terrain you have to deal with. 

I actually very much enjoy the way terrain is a big part of the game, especially the "black hole" deadly terrain. It creates interesting dynamics to deployment and movement throughout the game. 

With mystical terrain it's a gamble, if you're annoyed your unit does nothing then you shouldn't have put your unit in the terrain. Risk vs reward at the end of the day. 

Personally I feel the issue with terrain is that people are not prepared to use it. Many prefer to just use it as cover. I would always rather use the specific warscrolls for the terrain so buildings are garrisonable and walls are useful etc. 

[chord]

You could just not play with terrain rules. Usually our group doesn't.

[Gauche]

Only terrain I have a problem with is Damned because the cost you pay is very small compared to what you get for some Units, typically large Units. The rest all have a place. I used to think Mystical was very unfair but even a 1/6 chance is just too much unless I feel very behind in a game. Some could be buffed, mostly Inspiring and Sinister, but they do more than people think at first blush.

I wouldn't mind seeing an expanded chart, something like 2d6 instead of 1d6 for results. Terrain is pretty important and I think the game was designed with it in mind, I particularly like how Dangerous works right now because of how relaxed the other rules are. Terrain doesn't slow you down, it doesn't block LoS for the most part, so having some pieces which are no go zones is a good thing.

Some expanded Terrain Rules for Matched Play would be welcomed by me in the new GHB but I don't think major changes to the existing ones are necessary, just some more options.

[Terry Pike]

16 hours ago, WoollyMammoth said:

Applying these fixes will make terrain more of a influence that effects the game rather than a determining factor. With more balanced terrain, it may start to be more popular, and accepted even in tournament and competitive settings.

Mysterious terrain is already used in competitive play. I don't think I've ever played a game without it.

[WoollyMammoth]

@The Jabber Tzeentch
The purpose is to not affect the game in an overly meaningful way but to still have effect. I don't mind the "black hole" but having to slow down the game to roll over and over is annoying. You clearly have not had games where your opponent used terrain to crush you - It can feel very annoying. Mainly my concern is the purposed changes to Mystical and Damned which can be abused.

@chord
As i said i like terrain rules. They add important dynamic to the game and should always be used. I just think they need to be cleaned up a bit. If they were changed as I purpose - would you be anymore likely to use them?

@Gauche
That is interesting. If there was twice as many options, that means damned would come up 1/2 as much and probably never twice. Thats a good idea. But a lot of people already enjoy the terrain dice.

@Terry Pike
 I used it at LVO, but I heard reports of organizers saying not to. I think the rule might be, you can use it if you both agree. But with the rules as they are now, I favor using it to prevent abuse. 

[Bimli]

from the games I've played we tend to not use the terrain as anything other than cover. I think in a competitive setting they should be opt out.

In a casual setting Id use the terrain and I think that would be okay cause anything can happen it may be good for you or your opponent who knows.

[wayniac]

Most of my group forget terrain even have rules, and either ignore them completely (which basically means terrain ends up useless) or forget it anyways.  Honestly I like terrain rules, the only exception is nonsense like the Sylvaneth woods.  I do think the Deadly terrain needs the same "Hero/Monster are unaffected" rule like the wyldwood (I don't think they have that, I could be mistaken though!)

[chord]

no I still wouldn't use them . Too many rules

[Gauche]

Really shocked by how many people say Terrain has too many rules. AoS might be the simplest Terrain game....ever. Would be nice to have some non-Magical alternatives though, like Forests being different from a corn field being different from a house. Either that or expand the rules and balance them, either is an upgrade for Tournaments.

[RuneBrush]

I quite enjoy the scenery rules as is.  I generally play Deadly that you move the unit and then roll for all the models that passed through it in one hit, then remove as you wish - though if there's a "special" (champion, musician etc) I'll roll them separately or use a different coloured dice.  Your millage may vary on this though.

Scenery dice help a lot, but also having a small stack of tokens for ensorcelled, befuddled and fear to allocate out really helps too.  Generally we limit the number of ruled pieces to the number of scenery dice we've got (so normally 6 or 12).

Personally I really like having a lot of scenery on the table, including a few large buildings or other solid structures.  Having a "construction" and "natural" scenery table would be great fun but not really necessary   Would rather keep it simple and use one or two of the named scenery pieces.