Let's chat : Blades of Khorne!

[Karol]

3 hours ago, Riavan said:

Lol you sound pretty ungrateful for that. The good news is that since the spire ot Dawn is sold out. You can easily eBay that stuff for more than it cost. It's like the only way to get some skaven plastic models.

I don't know what you mean by ungratful. The dude died and the parents didn't pick up the models, so I took them. If you mean my parents, then they were suppose to give me a birtday gift, it also happens to be on the same time as my confirmation  so am already - gift less. They bought shade spire with the money I got from my grandparents, uncles and god parents. I can't really use the game for anything, other then using the khorn models as proxies, and from what I have been told by the few people that play the game around here, the starter set is unplayable in normal games. And considering that that makes up both my summer hobby stuff, and eats my next 4-5 months of money, it is natural to be a bit jaded.

As ebay goes, I would like to use. We have a polish version of it and there is olx here too, but the number of people playing shade spire in Poland is very small, and all those that do already have the starter set. If people are looking for anything it is single cards, or stuff from the expansion sets. As it not being sold there is a whole wall of it at my store. 2 of the starter sets and 2-3 of each expansion, so I don't see how it could be hard to get.

[NemoVonUtopia]

Since you initially said spire starter set he assumed you ment the Spire of Dawn box which was a starter set that has high elves and skaven. 

[Ungface]

5 hours ago, TheAdequateWargamer said:

I read it as shooting out of combat.

Which is a real blow if you have skull cannons and want to play for the second shot by causing wounds with the gnashing maw.

Obviously if thats the case they will alter it somehow, they already stated in that video that a couple of warscrolls will get tweaked.

[Riavan]

3 hours ago, Karol said:

I don't know what you mean by ungratful. The dude died and the parents didn't pick up the models, so I took them. If you mean my parents, then they were suppose to give me a birtday gift, it also happens to be on the same time as my confirmation  so am already - gift less. They bought shade spire with the money I got from my grandparents, uncles and god parents. I can't really use the game for anything, other then using the khorn models as proxies, and from what I have been told by the few people that play the game around here, the starter set is unplayable in normal games. And considering that that makes up both my summer hobby stuff, and eats my next 4-5 months of money, it is natural to be a bit jaded.

As ebay goes, I would like to use. We have a polish version of it and there is olx here too, but the number of people playing shade spire in Poland is very small, and all those that do already have the starter set. If people are looking for anything it is single cards, or stuff from the expansion sets. As it not being sold there is a whole wall of it at my store. 2 of the starter sets and 2-3 of each expansion, so I don't see how it could be hard to get.

The khorne guys in shadespire are a special unit in aos called garreks reavers.

But yeah you said spire starter so I thought you meant the actual starter set, spire of Dawn.

[JonnyTheKing]

I can see a section in the new book (If there is a book?)  having updated war scrolls, as soon on the official Facebook page they're doing overviews for each faction in the new edition showing an indication that some kind of change is coming for everyone. 

My prediction is they finally give our Skullcrushers the daemon keyword and possibly a couple minor tweaks to units like Blood Warriors to make them a more solid choice overall.

[Roark]

5 hours ago, JonnyTheKing said:

a couple minor tweaks to units like Blood Warriors to make them a more solid choice overall

What is wrong or lacking with Blood Warriors in your view? 20 wounds at 4+ for 200pts (along with their unique rules) has always seemed very reasonable to me...

[Agent of Chaos]

If magic is going to be a big deal in 2.0 and Khorne is getting a solution, I'm betting we get a wider range of prayers and/or more/stronger ways to unbind.

Can't imagine them changing the warscrolls too much given they have said that we can continue using old battletomes. Am a bit worried for the future of the letterbomb and the gore pilgrims battalion but as always the meta will shift, new combinations will be found and skulls will continue to be harvested.

[Killax]

Even stronger!? Well I've found Khorne to be able to deal with Magic very well, it even has lead to some games where because of the expectations the additional value of a simple single unit of Fleshhounds was very much highlighted to me.

Other than that I agree with the speculation that we will not see a complete overhaul of Warscrolls. I also don't think they will put a massive 'Age of Sigmar the 2nd edition' clause below the logo. Instead as speculated before the new logo acts (probably) as a reminder that stuff with it is designed with the new rules in mind.

In addition, I also feel that additional Core rules and clarifications is actually all the game really needed. Added lore and maps are awesome. What I hope GW will succeed in this time and I feel they had trouble with in GH2018 is to make a logical display of options and effects for army construction.

For example, they shouldn't shy to explain what a Grand Allegiance is vs a regular Allegiances, have some army lists as reference to show what's possible and what isn't. In addition I think the current Ally rules leave a lot to be desired. I think that a system that goes both ways would feel way more logical to everyone. E.g. Blades of Khorne can Ally with Monsters of Chaos and Monsters of Chaos can ally with Blades of Khorne etc.

Lastly the no shooting out of combat note makes me happy. It feels more logical and also should adress the issues true LoS bring to the game in a propper manner. As GWs idea is to not have bases matter and/or model convertions, this should be reflected in the game. What I also hope is that we will see Battalion rules being mentioned and ideally removing that one-drop-rule...

8 hours ago, JonnyTheKing said:

I can see a section in the new book (If there is a book?)  having updated war scrolls, as soon on the official Facebook page they're doing overviews for each faction in the new edition showing an indication that some kind of change is coming for everyone. 

My prediction is they finally give our Skullcrushers the daemon keyword and possibly a couple minor tweaks to units like Blood Warriors to make them a more solid choice overall.

I expect the book to be an incorporation of 'GH2019' aswell.

But if they leave out the Mighty Lord of Khorne with Fleshhound as a Mortal Daemon unit AGAIN I'll mail them AGAIN  

[TheAdequateWargamer]

On 5/13/2018 at 9:44 AM, kozokus said:

He really is on this big round base, different from other Bloodthirsters.

Thanks

Guessing it may be a reflection of his ruined wings.

When you look at the bases side by side the oval looks way bigger, when you lay them on top of each other, not so much.

[kozokus]

There is little differences between them. I even prefer the Bloodthirster one as it is easier to insert between ennemy models when flying/charging over chaff. As Skarbrand doesn't fly, this doesn't matter. I am also not terribly in love with Skarbrand. Sure he can reroll everything the first time he hits you, but if you ignore him, he transforms into a monster with 4 attacks that hit on 4+ for 400 points.

[JonnyTheKing]

5 hours ago, Roark said:

What is wrong or lacking with Blood Warriors in your view? 20 wounds at 4+ for 200pts (along with their unique rules) has always seemed very reasonable to me...

They're not a bad unit don't get me wrong, I just feel like compared to others troop options available they don't really stand out as something you'd typically take. When compared to other factions equivalent unit like Blightkings or Tzaangors they just kinda underperform. I feel they could do with a slight tweak, maybe just give them an extra +1 to hit on their weapons or an ability like on a roll of a 6 to hit the damage does -2 to armour which would encourage more synergy towards them wth stuff like slaughterpriests 

[kozokus]

9 hours ago, Roark said:

What is wrong or lacking with Blood Warriors in your view? 20 wounds at 4+ for 200pts (along with their unique rules) has always seemed very reasonable to me...

Bwarriors are a very nice unit but they have to compete with other battleline units, for some reaons, they lack the awesome musician everybody else have.

The comparison with Blightkings is a bit harsh, both are extremely similar in terms of wounds, armor and dammage output, but you get -1 movement and -40 points on the unit on one side, quite a bargain when you watch all sthe synergies you can put around both units.  when bloodwarriors enjoy +1/2 attacks-+X to charge, reroll1 to hit/wound and immunity to panick, blightkings gets +2/+5 to movement, musician, can run and charge, -1/-2/-3 rend equivalent!!!, mortal wound output on 6 to hit, +1 to wound, a 5++, +1Attack and are immensely resilient to panick due to base bravery 8 and beeing 4 wounds models.

If you compare them with bloodletters, another Khorne battleline, you can find a lot of similarities, they cost 20 and 22 points (for 2 letters) for 2 wounds and 2 attacks at 4+/3+ but you trade 1 armor for -1 rend and Mortals on 6' between them .  When it comes to combat, as a Khorne player, you generaly want to xterminate the ennemy rather than endure his attacks.

When it comes to synergies, bloodletters are bannanas,

• they get a natual +1 to hit, enjoy the mortalwound on 5+,
• gets more attacks from the bloodsecrator,
• gets more movement from the bloodstocker if you play a WOKBT because you can run'n'charge and enjoy the bonus twice
• gets more from +1 to hit from the priests because they start from 4+ to hit and have the Mortals on 4+ or 3+,
• also RR1 to hit and wound
• enjoy a nice bravery 10.
• Compared to the Warriors they lose the acess to the bonuses offered by both lords (while nice, only works if you charge and are offset by the bonus they have obtain), and the grinder (which is situational at best).

If tanking is your thing, the humble chaos warrior is even better,

• they are 10/40 points cheaper
• enjoy a nice 5++ against mortal wounds
• have acess to the same buffs by beeing mortals and Khorne
• They can fight efficently in pack of 30 with the range 2 weapon (traded with a -1 to hit)  and till keep the shield
• Can rerolls 1' in saves in big numbers
• have acess to a rend 1 weapon that have better synergy with +1 to hits if you abandon the shield.

Whar bloodwarriors have that others don't have is :

• the fist weapon, which is horribly written when you have acess to +1 to save
• the ability to strike at full buff when dying in close combat which is actually pretty powerful.
• they are part of most popular Bloodbound bataillons (but they offers almost nothing to them, like the Gorepilgrim)

The reason why you see them is mostly due to the very last point to be honest, you have to have 1-2 unit in some configurations and you have either to pay the minimum tax, make them cost 100, throw them on guard duty which they performs almost as well as a chaos warrior Or you can make them 20-30, stacks all the buffs you can and throw them at the ennemy where they will performs less than a non-tax unit but can still do a good work.

Just taking 10 bloodwarriors and having no perticular plan for them is a bad tactic. You have to plan your buffs and what they will do.

[TheAdequateWargamer]

Agreed with the above. Bloodwarriors just seem to get short changed in stats/abilities.

I find the difference in the move stat and not getting +1 to move from a banner/musician is actually quite noticable esp if your intention is to use them to grab a mid board objective in the first battleround. 

Would your thoughts change if they had 1 goreglaive per 5 instead of 1 per 10? (A bit more like tzaangors access to greatblades)

 

 

[TheAdequateWargamer]

5 hours ago, kozokus said:

There is little differences between them. I even prefer the Bloodthirster one as it is easier to insert between ennemy models when flying/charging over chaff. As Skarbrand doesn't fly, this doesn't matter. I am also not terribly in love with Skarbrand. Sure he can reroll everything the first time he hits you, but if you ignore him, he transforms into a monster with 4 attacks that hit on 4+ for 400 points.

400 point for 14 wounds on a 4+ gets me worried. Never played with him, only against. Fancy giving him a go and will no doubt learn things the hard way.

[kozokus]

28 minutes ago, TheAdequateWargamer said:

400 point for 14 wounds on a 4+ gets me worried. Never played with him, only against. Fancy giving him a go and will no doubt learn things the hard way.

My two cents about the use of Skarbrand :

• Try to stack as many buffs as possible on him, most notably, +1 to hit from priests, +3 to charge/run from Stocker and +1 attack from the Secrator and command from WOKBT.
• Concentrate your rage on Rerolls to charge, then hit, then wounds, only roar on things under specific cases.
• Try to avoid large useless units and favorise targets like though heroes and monsters, two successful attacks from Carnage can kill Nagash/Stardrake outright without any possible response (2X8)
• Resist the idea to dammage Skarbrand by yourself with Slaughterpriests : false good idea.

[Roark]

40 minutes ago, kozokus said:

Just taking 10 bloodwarriors and having no perticular plan for them is a bad tactic. You have to plan your buffs and what they will do.

Not gonna quote your whole post for obvious reasons! ;-)

Look, I don't actively buff every unit on the field in every battle. Not even close. I often pack some throwaways, like Skullcrushers, just to hold up the enemy or influence the battlefield in other ways for the benefit of my star assault units who DO get buffed.

I also hear what you're saying about roles, for sure, and Chaos Warriors are indeed a little tankier than Blood Warriors. But they're also total pillowfists. I've had lots of joy from No Respite and even the gorefists. I don't think one needs to go to the furthest extreme for each role, and I like to adapt their use sometimes. 

On that note, yeah, Bloodletters excel at doing mortal wounds. But I'll never paint or field 3 Letterbombs as my Battleline. I'd rather eat glass. So that leaves Blood Warriors, Chaos Warriors, Reavers and Marauders to fill one or more Battleline slots. I use all of them at various times, due to their differing qualities.

[chord]

if AOS 2.0 doesn't let units shoot from combat, then fast units (like chaos warhounds) can be used to get up the field and engage those shooting units as early as possible

[Killax]

11 minutes ago, chord said:

if AOS 2.0 doesn't let units shoot from combat, then fast units (like chaos warhounds) can be used to get up the field and engage those shooting units as early as possible

Oh absolutely, I know Order players dont want to admit or see it really but having more rules attached to shooting like is the case with combat actually opens up more unit useage as it removes. Cavalry is but a part of it. In addition things like Skyrfires can continue to exist and most importantly, like 40k, screening your units now becomes worth something. Either for this purpose or to have shooting blobs not being engaged.

[kozokus]

37 minutes ago, Roark said:

I also hear what you're saying about roles, for sure, and Chaos Warriors are indeed a little tankier than Blood Warriors. But they're also total pillowfists.

I do not agree on this part, Chaos warriors with Great blades hits pretty hard. 10 of them costs as much as 5 Wrathmongers/Skullreapers, offers 5 more wounds total, similar armor and similar combat stats.

But yeah ? No Respite is hilarious and totally fluff.

[chord]

51 minutes ago, Killax said:

Oh absolutely, I know Order players dont want to admit or see it really but having more rules attached to shooting like is the case with combat actually opens up more unit useage as it removes. Cavalry is but a part of it. In addition things like Skyrfires can continue to exist and most importantly, like 40k, screening your units now becomes worth something. Either for this purpose or to have shooting blobs not being engaged.

as a play of both I both look forward to and fear the shooting changes  

[Roark]

13 hours ago, kozokus said:

I do not agree on this part, Chaos warriors with Great blades hits pretty hard.

I don't know a single person who has even 10 of these modelled-up though, let alone 30 where they will maintain the Legions of Chaos rule. Sword and board all the way down...

[Killax]

13 hours ago, chord said:

as a play of both I both look forward to and fear the shooting changes  

If you don't max out on shooting I think the difference isn't that noticable. But what it allows for and I really hope it will is that support Heroes being killed turn 1 and 2 being more restricted to 1 turn. So that this way not having shooting isn't a massive hinderance.

I think the noticable difference will be that shooting is a support factor for AoS and I think it also always should be that way. 

10 minutes ago, Roark said:

I don't know a single person who has even 10 of these modelled-up though, let alone 30 where they will maintain the Legions of Chaos rule. Sword and board all the way down...

I have them but only because of WFB. I have not used them simply because on paper I'm no fan of it. For sure something could be said to experiment and not judge things on stats. But the honest truth for me and AoS is that things can be judged on stats. So unless they have an ability that can synergize with others really well, it doesn't thake a lot of thought or testing to actually construct what you want to.

For me the locals also usually pick something that is slightly competitive and in addition to that I'm just not so much a fan of the Chaos Warrior sculpts anymore. I'm sure new ones will eventually come that look like the chosen, are more dynamic and are what they more or less should look like based on even older WFB art.

[Roark]

I meant that I've never seen physical miniatures of Chaos Warriors with great weapons mate. Back in 8th, we used to use either Khorne halberds or Tzeentch sword-and-board. Never seen anyone actually assemble a unit of great weapon Warriors, let alone field a unit of 30 in a tournament. 

[Karol]

Guys I won a speed painting competion at our store, now I have the option to get a single box of infantry for free. my options are chaos warriors, bloodletters or chaos marauders , I don't know which would be better for my army.

[Arkiham]

18 minutes ago, Karol said:

Guys I won a speed painting competion at our store, now I have the option to get a single box of infantry for free. my options are chaos warriors, bloodletters or chaos marauders , I don't know which would be better for my army.

i suspect marauders are going to be redone. so i advise against buying them