Let's chat : Blades of Khorne!

[Aspirant Snaeper]

13 hours ago, Urbanus said:

Great news everybody! With just ONE point from the blood tithe we can activate another deathbringer giving us yet another way to gain extra attacks >:D 6 attacks bloodreavers here I come...

It makes the Mighty Lord of Khorne completely play-able. Now you can use his command ability without necessarily making him General. This can help reduce heat on him so he can run around and hit things with his axe. 

[RuneBrush]

8 hours ago, Killax said:

Wrathmongers thake some thought but are very rewarding when applied on the right place, though this is most certainly a skill tester for both players. I like them but as a single unit, not really feeling like using them as Skullreapers, who do their job beter.

What makes them quite practicle aswell is that it allows you to have an responce against units being charged in front of them, such as Bloodreavers

Over the games I've played I actually prefer Wrathmongers over a Behemoth.  With careful placing you can minimise the number of +1 attacks you provide your opponent.  Their "make opponent attack something else" is also really powerful and I can see it being very useful when tied into the new Blood Tithe system.

[Kaleb Daark]

Now that's clever, if not even thought about their negative potential.

now if only the models were not so offensive to mine eyes!

[Killax]

1 hour ago, RuneBrush said:

Over the games I've played I actually prefer Wrathmongers over a Behemoth.  With careful placing you can minimise the number of +1 attacks you provide your opponent.  Their "make opponent attack something else" is also really powerful and I can see it being very useful when tied into the new Blood Tithe system.

Certainly. It's the typical discovery of the second wave that can make them really interesting to work with. What I like about them in addition to buffing others is that they most certainly are a unit that can be kept close to your characters, which in turn makes oppossing character hunting fully possible but at a cost if they attempt to do this by going in melee and hacking the model apart.

I think Wrathmongers and Behemoths are roughly on the same level, I also even feel this way about Skullreapers. As mentioned their task is supportive and much less aggressive, while they can do the latter they ideally do this in a responsive way where they first could boost (for example) the block of Bloodletters or Bloodreavers in front of them and react if this unit is assaulted.

Long story short I certainly like them, I also like the Blood Tithe system but I will also say that Wrathmongers are the type of unit that you need to think about, not every army needs them but armies with larger swarms will certainly like one near them so that can maximize those attacks whilst we have the option to respond with Wrathmongers

44 minutes ago, Kaleb Daark said:

Now that's clever, if not even thought about their negative potential.

now if only the models were not so offensive to mine eyes!

I'll have a converted unit up in roughly 8 hours. I think the models can be worked with but they need a little bit more as where they come with. A simple armoured shoulderplate gets you a long way! Spiked torso's (friendly and foe) as decoration is the job for today!

[Xasz]

My problem with them is, that they are just another support unit (and an expensive one at that) that has to compete with several other good choices for its slot. 

The fact that the Bloodsecrator and Shrine are going to be even stronger is not boding well for them, on top of being generally easier to play.

 

[Killax]

16 minutes ago, Xasz said:

My problem with them is, that they are just another support unit (and an expensive one at that) that has to compete with several other good choices for its slot. 

The fact that the Bloodsecrator and Shrine are going to be even stronger is not boding well for them, on top of being generally easier to play.

 

I get that, though the Wrathmongers are still cheaper alone and their defensive properties are better (smaller and multiple bases).

Its also again a matter of army build. I like to use Bloodletters and Wrathmongers combined. Bloodreavers and Warshrine are great aswell. The differences in this combination both have different pros and cons.

[Kaleb Daark]

Actually reading their bloodfury and all the comments above makes me think they'll be a sleeper unit hidden in plain sight.

When dealing with behemoths and other gribble these will be excellent in respect that you want one of them to die to it - then it can attack itself, sure if opponent has got any sense he will pull back after the first round but hopefully by then he's weakened himself enough to be worried.

I'm starting to get them now in an altenative way.

[Killax]

2 hours ago, Kaleb Daark said:

Actually reading their bloodfury and all the comments above makes me think they'll be a sleeper unit hidden in plain sight.

When dealing with behemoths and other gribble these will be excellent in respect that you want one of them to die to it - then it can attack itself, sure if opponent has got any sense he will pull back after the first round but hopefully by then he's weakened himself enough to be worried.

I'm starting to get them now in an altenative way.

Very happy you see that, I can only comment on my own experience and say I very much like them.

What makes the Wrathmongers so unique within Khorne (and likely the reason why I gravitated to them) is that they are one of the very few units who are actually suprisingly good defensively. The strategy they open to some of your builds (again not all, infantry based armies benifit more from them as say Brass Stampede) allows us to throw another punch or in other words it's an alternative to migate your own losses by setting a 'trap' for your opponent.

Wrathmongers are most certainly very good in killing Behemoth's but even certain Characters arn't save. Their downside is a mediocre save (but hey still a save right?) and suggested double edged blade because your opponent can profit from them aswell. While when played correctly that opposing profit isn't that easily archived and in general Wrathmongers perform better as long as you can keep them for that secondary wave.

Skullreapers, Skullcrushers and other faster and hard hitting models are very good on their own and do not really require a unit of Wrathmongers, by large thanks to their manouvreability or survivability. However infantry heavy armies in my opinion do most certainly benifit from them.

Up to 2K I wouldn't bother with more as 1 of these units unless you want to go for a particular Battalion but without Battalion they are certainly a suprising good deal. 

[Nico]

Quote

What makes the Wrathmongers so unique within Khorne (and likely the reason why I gravitated to them) is that they are one of the very few units who are actually suprisingly good defensively. The strategy they open to some of your builds (again not all, infantry based armies benifit more from them as say Brass Stampede) allows us to throw another punch or in other words it's an alternative to migate your own losses by setting a 'trap' for your opponent.

They are great, but surely you're neglecting Blood Warriors which do a weaker version of the same thing - attacking on their death in the Combat Phase. Also an outstanding unit!

[Killax]

15 minutes ago, Nico said:

They are great, but surely you're neglecting Blood Warriors which do a weaker version of the same thing - attacking on their death in the Combat Phase. Also an outstanding unit!

Possibly but I feel that they are a bit overcosted in GH1, I hoped to see a cost reduction for them in BoK but it doesn't seem to be the case.

I guess my only issue with them now is that their cost is the same as that of Bloodletters but you get twice as much Bloodletters for that cost. While Warriors certainly have 2 wounds and a better armour save a lot of the Khorne synergy provided by the faction now is either looking for:
- Multiwound with a good movent, wounds and save (Rock) or
- Massed numbers with slow movement, tons of attacks (Paper)
From my perspective for a competative design the Blood Warriors fit somewhere in between but don't have the same type of synergy support that we have for multiwound and massed numbers. If Blood Warriors (per 5) where say 80 or 90 I'd totally reconsider that opinion for for now I feel they are just exactly what I'm looking for.

One of the reasons as to why there still can be a Warshrine and Warmongers debate for me is also because their is a good difference in cost between the two. For with BoK the Warshrine is most certainly a bit better with Bloodreavers but for others the Wrathmongers are most certainly a nice discount variant who doesn't look very very specific synergies

[RuneBrush]

I think one of the nice things about Khorne is that there are a lot of different ways to play and there's really no excuse for two armies to be identical. I'm a big fan of my Blood Warriors and normally get really good value for points out of them, especially when run in units of ten.  I can't see them dropping in points as this is roughly where "elite infantry" runs at.

I do think Bloodletters are great (I do need to add some more at some point), but find them very glass cannon in comparison to other units.  If you can deliver them, they'll make a mess of most things, but if my opponent focuses on them, they'll remove them fairly quickly (and easily) from the board.

[Nico]

Quote

I can't see them dropping in points as this is roughly where "elite infantry" runs at.

I agree with your post, but would just clarify that Blood Warriors are the same cost per wound as Liberators (10 points per wound), which I use as a Baseline for other comparisons. Liberators and Blood Warriors are above average Battleline troops - I just wouldn't call them elite infantry (as otherwise you'll be underwhelmed by them). Ardboyz are in the same category (slightly cheaper as well). Dryads are 12 points per wound. 

Elite Infantry are typically double the cost, e.g. Phoenix Guard are 20 points per wound, as are Saurus Guard. Chaos Chosen are 16 points per wound.

[Killax]

Thing remains, that by compairing them to Stormcast you'd compair in a vacume of two very different armies. Now if Khorne had the same type of ranged support as Stormcast have you could say the comparison is very valid and correct, the thing is that outside of the Skullcannon it's very unlikely that Khorne will furthermore recieve ranged attacks like found in Stormcasts or in general in the Order alliance.

Blood Warriors arn't bad but in a faction full of good melee bodies and many of those have much more synergy chains available to them as Blood Warriors have. Bloodletters and Bloodreavers are certainly more easily removed from the board but also make up for it by quantity in body. The prime difference is that the bigger unit allows you to blunt the assault of heavy hitters much more easily. Warriors do have the advantage into ranged but not in the same way as Skullcrushers can provide to us, that speed, armour and durability is where you want it if ranged is giving you issues.

I'll never say you shouldn't run them! However for competative games I will say that they are a tad too expensive for my taste. The new cost on the Bloodreavers is also a true consideration but I still see them as being very effective pieces for Bloodsecrators, Bloodpriests, Warshrines and Blood Tithe so I understand the cost cange.

 

[Bowlzee]

Bloodwarriors are one of the best battleline units in the game! I would take 3 units if I had them painted!

[Iradekhorne]

5 hours ago, Bowlzee said:

Bloodwarriors are one of the best battleline units in the game! I would take 3 units if I had them painted!

Uff right now i like more the chaos warriors with 2 hand weapons.

The lack of rend make the bloodwarriors so useles in certain cases, and is more easy buff to hit than to wound.

But with that book we will see what can they do :D. The khorne mortal army lack is low count of mortal wounds and rend (mortal, no daemon xD).

with the new book maybye it changue, after all we use a lot of battlelines we dont have problems to put any unit, like other armyes like death ^^

[Arkiham]

[Arkiham]

Well.

 

Nice bloodsecrators buff,

Nice item for bloodbound, the Mark of the destroyer combined with exalted deathbribger, do you double the attacks then buff, or buff then double? 

Skullcrushers still suffering for their 8th edition reputation, nerfed in my view as no longer mortal khorne but bloodbound.

Skullthrone/skullcannon also garbage. Don't even bother looking at that box unless you like the model.

Mounted khorne lords, nerfed in general compared to on foot, due to traits/items only affecting riders, unlike disciples of Tzeentch. 

 

 

All in all, i feel rather underwhelmed tbh, expecting disciples of Tzeentch quality and It doesn't look like they've delivered 

[Fr0]

Nice, found those and a few more today. Can't wait to be be holding the book in my hands.. As much as I love seeing the stuff early, should we be posting unreleased pics?

I like the Gore Pilgrim battalion a lot. 'secrator, 2-3 priests, 1-2 BW and 1-2 Bloodreavers. Re-roll prayers and blessings and beef the range by 6" for each priest near the Bloodsecrator when be opens the portal! That's going to be loads of fun, plus I have the models.

Too bad we can't give the Warshrine the totems, but it will still work out well. Thinking I'll be slapping a Gorecleaver on the Skullgrinder, and Mark of the Destroyer on an Exalted Deathbringer, bahaha.. oh man. Either the spelltank with 14A, (not a fan of the gouger myself) or my personal favourite the hero slaying Deathviking with 12A and forever wounds. Add 2 more attacks if the portal is open, and another if your Aspiring shouts. *this is assuming they are operating near your general, which mine general are for maximum benefit*

 

3 hours ago, Iradekhorne said:

Uff right now i like more the chaos warriors with 2 hand weapons.

This is often my issue as of late. I painted up some cool looking dual wielding Warriors of Khorne, but unless I'm really trying to shave points for some reason, I tell myself I can spend another 20 points on the 10 man squad of BW and ensure they always get to attack. Makes me sad, but the coolness factor is always weighted.

 

 

[TrexPushups]

Well.
 
Nice bloodsecrators buff,
Nice item for bloodbound, the Mark of the destroyer combined with exalted deathbribger, do you double the attacks then buff, or buff then double? 
Skullcrushers still suffering for their 8th edition reputation, nerfed in my view as no longer mortal khorne but bloodbound.
Skullthrone/skullcannon also garbage. Don't even bother looking at that box unless you like the model.
Mounted khorne lords, nerfed in general compared to on foot, due to traits/items only affecting riders, unlike disciples of Tzeentch. 
 
 
All in all, i feel rather underwhelmed tbh, expecting disciples of Tzeentch quality and It doesn't look like they've delivered 

Skullcrushers will still have he mortal tag.

This is a buff as now you can include Khorgoraths without losing access to battleline status

The rend increasing item is freaking awesome for the juggernaught lord.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Fr0]

2 hours ago, Arkiham said:

Nice item for bloodbound, the Mark of the destroyer combined with exalted deathbribger, do you double the attacks then buff, or buff then double? 

My view is that the Bloodsecrator adds one to your weapon's attack profile; MotD doubles the attacks of your weapons profile making your Bloodsecrator 100% more effective. 

[Greetings from the Warp]

Hi all loving this thread.. am relatively new to Khorne but have a ton of Khorne Daemons and the recent Bloodbound starter box contents..

Am a little obsessed on building a Skullcrusher heavy army.. is now a good time to order a load of boxes (Brass Stampede!?!)?!

[Arkiham]

3 hours ago, TrexPushups said:

Skullcrushers will still have he mortal tag

Yeah but they can't be run as battle line in a slaves to darkness line up 

[wanderingrogue1]

Ill be playing with some of the movement buffs etc but this doesnt seem anywhere near as good as the tzeentch one. Despite podcasts to the contrary i dont see it blowing any meta wide open. Mixed chaos still seem better

 

Juggers and skull cannons are still god awfull.  I dont see how you can think 180 for a skull cannon is a reasonable pts tag when compared to almost any other cheaper shooting unit.

 

Literally all this ( so far...i will be playtesting) has done is use up the last 20 pts in my 1980 list and make my games vs my casual mates a little more interesting. So a win i suppose on that. But its not changed my opinion at all that mixed chaos or pure tzeentch are the way to go for the competitive minded chaos player (which isnt everyone i know). 

 

Im sure pano will get something to work though

 

[RuneBrush]

15 hours ago, Nico said:

I agree with your post, but would just clarify that Blood Warriors are the same cost per wound as Liberators (10 points per wound), which I use as a Baseline for other comparisons. Liberators and Blood Warriors are above average Battleline troops - I just wouldn't call them elite infantry (as otherwise you'll be underwhelmed by them). Ardboyz are in the same category (slightly cheaper as well). Dryads are 12 points per wound. 

Elite Infantry are typically double the cost, e.g. Phoenix Guard are 20 points per wound, as are Saurus Guard. Chaos Chosen are 16 points per wound.

Sorry, elite was probably too strong (which is why I put it in quotes).  They're not an elite unit in the sense that Wrathmongers are, but are more a bog standard infantry plus one.

[Gilby]

I'm not liking the 3-7 other battalions thing going on on all our big battalions. It makes many of them either too expensive to play in matched play or only playable if you take the cheapest battalions possible and then you're running with 9 units of 10 bloodletters or bloodreavers and throwing your back out leaning over the table and having to end games in turn 3 with the amount of time you spend trying to move all those models.

 

Here's a question though. For the mortal ones there's the 'must take' stuff at the top and then the 3 'may take' bullet points. Ignore the top 2 as being impossible to fit into a 2k point list. The third one says I can take any number of models or battallions. Does that mean I can ignore the 3-7 battallion limit and just take 1? The way I'm reading it it seems to suggest that I 'may' do that if I want.