Let's chat Disciples of Tzeentch

[AaronWilson]

Upon re-reading the batallion.. it doesn't say it ignores the rule of one. If so, that's rubbishhhhhhhhhhh

[ledha]

Rule of one don't care of what the warscroll say. Rule of one prevented kroak to use more than one time his spell, as well as the tzaangors shaman to use twice the same spell with his potion

[josh1989]

What are you talking about? with the list i posted you open portal with your first spell spew 11 mortal wound spells through it at your opponent turn 1 then close it with your last spell. They cant do ****** back to you and you keep out of unbind range push your pinks forward and keep your casters back to abuse the portal more in later turns.  Then start spewing out horrors across the board gunking it up and summon a free Lord of change on turn 3. That is very powerful and means you can position out of any turn 1 charges from  the opponent using terrain and distance then keep them back with waves of horrors. 

[AaronWilson]

Josh you can't do what you say, dispelling Endless spells is the first thing done in the hero phase. So no summoning, casting through it then unbinding the portal. 

Do people think the Arcanite Cabal is worth a look at? 180 points is steep but it's a pseudo wizard that can cast 3 spells. 

[AaronWilson]

The current problem I'm having is trying to strike a balance between having enough heroes to spit magic out / generate fate points AND have boots on the ground so we don't just lose on scenario.

[Drib]

As well as dispelling Endlessspells is at the start of the hero phase, hero phase is before the movment phase. So spellportal is only a problem if you get double turned or Endlessspells comming through, As the enemy Wizards won't camp around your spellportal.

[Nevvermore]

1 hour ago, ledha said:

Rule of one don't care of what the warscroll say. Rule of one prevented kroak to use more than one time his spell, as well as the tzaangors shaman to use twice the same spell with his potion



That was in AoS 1 because the rule of one was in the GHB, which took precedent over the warscrolls. In AoS 2 the rule of one is in the Core Rules, and they state clearly that warscrolls take precedent over Core Rules. So now Kroak can indeed cast his spell three times in Matched Play, the new Stormcast Evocators can cast theirs once per unit, etc.

[AaronWilson]

Drib makes a stellar point. 

So with the models own, without going to buy things I'm going to try this at 2000 points. It's not a tournament list but I don't think it's terrible.

Allegiance - Tzeentch.

Lord of change - 380
Gaunt summoner of Tzeentch - 180
Tzaangor Shaman - 180
Herald of Tzeentch - 140

Kairic Acolytes - 80
Kairic Acolytes - 80
Pink Horrors - 200
Pink Horrors - 200

Tzaangor Skyfires - 440

Umbral Spell Portal - 60
Balewind Vortex - 40 

[josh1989]

ok fair enough you cant close it that phase but all the spells are 18" range so you just keep it like 10" away from their army and if they move to far dispel and re summon in a closer place. That should mostly keep them from throwing spells back through. With this build you can get max 42 points on turn 3 with blue scribes you will make most/all casts then you can drop lord of change T3, and 10 Pink Horrors T4 and T5 this combined with Chaos Spawn coming out of Magister and Kiaros, Ogroid  making pinks and splitting making blues and brims you will have an extra 1k in points on the board. While keeping a casting/ spawning hub in one corner of the board with all your wizards casting through the portal sending out waves of horrors across the board. seems like the best way to maximize the new summoning rules. 

[Tasman]

4 minutes ago, josh1989 said:

ok fair enough you cant close it that phase but all the spells are 18" range so you just keep it like 10" away from their army and if they move to far dispel and re summon in a closer place. That should mostly keep them from throwing spells back through. With this build you can get max 42 points on turn 3 with blue scribes you will make most/all casts then you can drop lord of change T3, and 10 Pink Horrors T4 and T5 this combined with Chaos Spawn coming out of Magister and Kiaros, Ogroid  making pinks and splitting making blues and brims you will have an extra 1k in points on the board. While keeping a casting/ spawning hub in one corner of the board with all your wizards casting through the portal sending out waves of horrors across the board. seems like the best way to maximize the new summoning rules. 

This sounds great, but in the last year or so I haven't had a game last longer than T3.......

[josh1989]

1 hour ago, Tasman said:

This sounds great, but in the last year or so I haven't had a game last longer than T3.......

really? all mine go to T5 but i play against alot of seraphon, stormcast, death and splitterz all go long. Also if that is you toasting them by T3 then you could do that with this list too so you dont need the summmons. The point is your casting 13-14 spells a turn and all doing damage so your playing into your strengths anyway and you get free models to close the late game should it get there

[BillyOcean]

What do people think of the idea of using endless spells to do some "controlled culling" of pinks to generate blue chaff walls in the early game? E.g. turn 1 use a pendulum to hack two units of pinks in half, then fold reality on one to replenish it, use a 1 on the fate dice to replenish the other, and generate a couple units of blues from thin air to hold up enemy advance. Because of how the pendulum moves, you can easily move your pinks so they won't be hit again when your opponent moves the pendulum... unless you want them to be hit to pop out more blues!

[Asamu]

5 hours ago, AaronWIlson said:

Upon re-reading the batallion.. it doesn't say it ignores the rule of one. If so, that's rubbishhhhhhhhhhh

It's a warscroll ability that says that every hero in the battalion can attempt to cast an arcane bolt, but each wizard can still only cast it once. The new "rule of one" is trumped by warscroll abilities, as per page 13 the new rules.

Exact wording as follows:

"In addition, HEROES in this warband can attempt to cast the Arcane Bolt spell in their hero phase as if they were a wizard. If the model is already a wizard, it can attempt to cast Arcane Bolt twice in each of its hero phases, once through the power granted by Tzeentch, and once more as one of the spells the model is normally allowed to cast."

So at minimum, one wizardcan cast 2 arcane bolts in the same turn, as that is stated explicitly. Though, as one of the casts is stated as specifically being separate from the spells a wizard is normally allowed to cast (IE: does not follow the normal restrictions for casting), all of the remaining wizards should be able to cast it once in addition to their normal spells. Non-wizards might not be able to cast it at all, as they cast as per a normal wizard, but unless FAQed/or errataed, all wizards that are part of the warband can cast mystic bolt in addition to their normal spells.

[Qaz]

Played a couple of 1k game with tzeentch to throw some dice and get a feel of summoning. Barring big changes to warscrolls and us playing it wrong, I think 10 Pinks are core. Essentially 50+ wounds for 200 points is pretty damn good. 12" within a hero and 9" away  is hard to stop, considering its at the end of movement phase. 

But Nurgle summoning is still stronger. Even if you snipe the heroes, the damn tree can still summon stuff. 

And Ogroid. 

[Drib]

2 hours ago, BillyOcean said:

What do people think of the idea of using endless spells to do some "controlled culling" of pinks to generate blue chaff walls in the early game? E.g. turn 1 use a pendulum to hack two units of pinks in half, then fold reality on one to replenish it, use a 1 on the fate dice to replenish the other, and generate a couple units of blues from thin air to hold up enemy advance. Because of how the pendulum moves, you can easily move your pinks so they won't be hit again when your opponent moves the pendulum... unless you want them to be hit to pop out more blues!

I like to use "Arcane Sacrifice" on my Gaunt Summoner to controle the Horrors in smaller games like 1000 points atm and am looking forward to use it in the new edition in the same manner.

[Gilby]

What about using Soulsnare Shackles? Cheap points wise. Can be placed 6'' in front of enemy lines so that they'd probably get caught twice by it if it stays up. Gives you another spell to cast if you need one. Wastes one of your opponents spells dispelling it (does dispelling an endless spell count as a spell for the Fate points??).

 

Also Geminids of Uhl-Gysh are again cheaper than a portal (but more than the shackles). Give debuffs like -1 to attack characteristic and -1 to hit, along with doing a few mortal wounds. Would help slow down the enemy killing your pinks a bit and let you get the summoned blues and brims in closer before your pinks go down potentially.

[AaronWilson]

So I finalised my list that I'll give a whirl out to this

Allegiance : Tzeentch

Lord of change - 380
Lore of Change - Tzeentch’s Firestorm
Gaunt summoner - 180
Deamonic Power - Aspect of Tzeentch Lore of Change - Bolt of Tzeentch
Tzaangor Shaman - 180
General - Nexus of Fate Lore of Fate - Shield of Fate
Ogroid - 180
Lore of Fate - Arcanum Infusion
Blue Scribes - 140
Lore of Change - Unchecked Mutation

10 Kairic Acolytes - 80
10 Kairic Acolytes - 80
10 Pink Horrors - 200 Lore of Change - Fold into reality
6 Tzaangor Skyfires - 440

Umbral Spell portal - 60
Balewind Vortex - 40

Excited to give it a run out.

Secondly I've seen a few people make the comment now a warscroll trumps the rulebook, do we know if thi is the case or not. If so, Fatesworn Warband will become the best way to play Tzeentch purely for the arcane bolt spam.

 

[Drib]

11 minutes ago, AaronWIlson said:

Secondly I've seen a few people make the comment now a warscroll trumps the rulebook, do we know if thi is the case or not. If so, Fatesworn Warband will become the best way to play Tzeentch purely for the arcane bolt spam.

 

Core Rules page 13 point 3: "Most warscrolls include one or more abilities that can be used by the warscroll’s models during a game of Warhammer Age of Sigmar.  Abilities take precedence over the core rules. "

An on page 15 point 2: " The abilities listed for a warscroll battalion only apply to the units that make it up (even if there are other units of the same type in your army), and they are in addition to the abilities listed on the units’ warscrolls. "

So it abilities become part of the warscroll and warscrolls take precedence.

[Tokyo Nift]

48 minutes ago, AaronWIlson said:

 

Secondly I've seen a few people make the comment now a warscroll trumps the rulebook, do we know if thi is the case or not. If so, Fatesworn Warband will become the best way to play Tzeentch purely for the arcane bolt spam.

 

Arcane Bolt is baseline just 1MW now. Just a thing to consider.

[Drib]

25 minutes ago, Tokyo Nift said:

Arcane Bolt is baseline just 1MW now. Just a thing to consider.

It is for the Fate Points and not the MWs!

[Sieggi858]

2 hours ago, Drib said:

Core Rules page 13 point 3: "Most warscrolls include one or more abilities that can be used by the warscroll’s models during a game of Warhammer Age of Sigmar.  Abilities take precedence over the core rules. "

An on page 15 point 2: " The abilities listed for a warscroll battalion only apply to the units that make it up (even if there are other units of the same type in your army), and they are in addition to the abilities listed on the units’ warscrolls. "

So it abilities become part of the warscroll and warscrolls take precedence.

But do we know if this applies to matched play?

[Waiyuren]

2 hours ago, Sieggi858 said:

But do we know if this applies to matched play?

The rules of one trump warscrolls.

The current one dealing with spells even singles out arcane bolt and states; each spell can only be attempted once per turn, even if an ability on a warscroll would allow a unit to attempt to cast it more than once.

So unless that rule has changed in ghb18, the fatesworn multicast ability is for narritive or open play games only.

[nsc]

4 minutes ago, Waiyuren said:

The rules of one trump warscrolls.

The current one dealing with spells even singles out arcane bolt and states; each spell can only be attempted once per turn, even if an ability on a warscroll would allow a unit to attempt to cast it more than once.

So unless that rule has changed in ghb18, the fatesworn multicast ability is for narritive or open play games only.

The rule of one is in the CORE RULES for AoS2 go download the rules from aos.com man

[Waiyuren]

Comment retracted. 

[Asamu]

1 hour ago, Waiyuren said:

The rules of one trump warscrolls.

The current one dealing with spells even singles out arcane bolt and states; each spell can only be attempted once per turn, even if an ability on a warscroll would allow a unit to attempt to cast it more than once.

 So unless that rule has changed in ghb18, the fatesworn multicast ability is for narritive or open play games only.

The rules of one aren't listed in the GHB18, due to them being folded into the core rules. They flip through all the relevant pages detailing the differences between matched play and open/narrative play in the BoLS overview, and everything on those pages is legible in the video, and there is nothing about spells or the rules of one on those pages.

Unless there is an FAQ released to state otherwise, Fatesworn arcane bolt spam is legal in matched play (Good thing arcane bolt was nerfed and fatesworn went up 60 pts).