Why the hate on alternate game systems?

[DeadlySarcasm]

6 minutes ago, Lord marcus said:

Hate is a strong word. My apologies for using it. Pushback and bitterness, instead?

There's none of that either. This place is extremely positive, and full of healthy discussion about a game we all love playing, we don't have discussions about other games on this forum.

 

Mod mode now.

 

I'm going to leave this thread open, but as soon as it starts getting heated then I'll be closing it. Please remember this is a happy place, we all need to be respectful of everyone else.

Thanks

[Lord marcus]

Just now, Ollie Grimwood said:

I fail to see what this post has to do with AoS. 

A general discussion about the bitterness between AoS players and kings/T9A players

Just now, DeadlySarcasm said:

There's none of that either. This place is extremely positive, and full of healthy discussion about a game we all love playing, we don't have discussions about other games on this forum.

 

Mod mode now.

 

I'm going to leave this thread open, but as soon as it starts getting heated then I'll be closing it. Please remember this is a happy place, we all need to be respectful of everyone else.

Thanks

Of course.

 

I also realize that this is an AoS centric forum, but surely other systems/Miniatures get mentioned occasionally?

 

Being isolationist about other games is perfectly fine, however, if this is true. I am trying to understand what lies between the players of various systems so I can formulate an approach to trying to broaden my games groups scope.

[daedalus81]

Just now, Lord marcus said:

Being isolationist about other games is perfectly fine, however, if this is true. I am trying to understand what lies between the players of various systems so I can formulate an approach to trying to broaden my games groups scope.

I don't think we're isolationist as a whole.  There is just so much to pre-occupy ourselves with that it doesn't come up.

If you want to broaden your community you'd have to drive at what they like about the system they play and what they think their hangup about AoS might be.  

AoS isn't rank and file, but it scratches tactical play in many different ways that requires discovery.  So the only post that might aggravate me is a claim about AoS from a position of ignorance.  

[hobgoblinclub]

1 hour ago, Carnelian said:

Maybe I've just not paid attenion but I've not really seen any kings of war hate on tga myself. but I don't read every thread! 

I've not seen any hate either. I think the TGA prides itself on stating away from such things. 

 

1 hour ago, Ratatatata said:

Got to ask though; "hate" on alternate game systems? I did a search and in the name of science another one regarding your subject and came up with... nada. Zero. The most "hateful" discussion I could find was a post about Mantic models being lousy. 

Which kind of gets me wondering about the real intention behind a thread like this. 

I'm wondering about this too. The subject matter (or at least the approach to it) is tired and old. Warseer etc shut down because they were full of endless 'my system is better than your system'. This forum is for discussing AoS.

While it would be perfectly OK to open a thread discussing the mechanics of this great game in comparison to those of other systems (and such a thing might prove very interesting) this thread feels solely like a KoW player out to bemoan AoS. I know this is a difficult distinction to make, but the thread already seems to be going round in circles. There isn't the hate on TGA that's been mentioned and I can't see any way for the thread to go other than down the 'They bashed AoS and they were wrong' route. 

Genuinely the first thread I've ever thought about closing on TGA. But I won't, because I don't like to. 

24 minutes ago, Lord marcus said:

Hate is a strong word. My apologies for using it. Pushback and bitterness, instead?

It's really not happening. I feel you're pushing a point with no substance. If you mean to ask why AoS is great, however, you're asking the right people. 

[Lord marcus]

2 minutes ago, hobgoblinclub said:

I've not seen any hate either. I think the TGA prides itself on stating away from such things. 

 

I'm wondering about this too. The subject matter (or at least the approach to it) is tired and old. Warseer etc shut down because they were full of endless 'my system is better than your system'. This forum is for discussing AoS.

While it would be perfectly OK to open a thread discussing the mechanics of this great game in comparison to those of other systems (and such a thing might prove very interesting) this thread feels solely like a KoW player out to bemoan AoS. I know this is a difficult distinction to make, but the thread already seems to be going round in circles. There isn't the hate on TGA that's been mentioned and I can't see any way for the thread to go other than down the 'They bashed AoS and they were wrong' route. 

Genuinely the first thread I've ever thought about closing on TGA. But I won't, because I don't like to. 

It's really not happening. I feel you're pushing a point with no substance. If you mean to ask why AoS is great, however, you're asking the right people. 

I'll open a new thread. Again, my sincere apologies. This is not what I intended.

[Kramer]

42 minutes ago, Lord marcus said:

I am trying to understand what lies between the players of various systems so I can formulate an approach to trying to broaden my games groups scope.

Isn't this the core of your question? You ran into a wall convincing others. Couldn't formulate the arguments then and there and are now looking for inspiration?

Because if so rephrase it to (something like): what makes AoS Unique? 

Because Thats a question everybody wants to answer  

[HobbyHammer]

Can't really see the point in this thread. AoS is a great game, has been a great game from the beginning. (IMO)

Kings of War looks like a great game, but isn't AoS and therefore is it needed to be talked about on an AoS forum comparing fans of the systems and pointing out that elsewhere there is people hating on the games and their followers? Probably not..

Lets return to talking about AoS and leave this post at this point before it does turn into a hate argument. 

@Lord marcus - Looking forward to seeing your painting progress on your AoS miniatures. 

[TerrorPenguin]

I don't play or know any other systems really, I played a bit of malifaux but that's a whole other kettle of fish.

I have to say one of the best things about AOS is this forum (and maybe it's reflection of the community more widely). I recently bought bloodbowl and joined a few groups, really looking for somewhere like here - welcoming; friendly and not quick to put people down for it understanding as much of the game as they did. I didn't find it.

If there was a TGA for Bloodbowl, 40K or maybe even KOW I might get more into it; but currently I'm really enjoying AOS so will stick to that (and a bit of bloodbowl - didn't put me off too much)

[Lord Veshnakar]

Other games just don't need to be discussed here. This is a dedicated forum.  Take that to a General Tabletop or Wargames forum. This site is about AOS and generally does a great job keeping at bay the slanderous toxic crowd, which is still very much alive and well and does everything they can to drive people away from GW and AOS because in their mind GW "destroyed" WHFB.

Just check out the comments section for this video to get an idea of what I mean, and why many of this forum might be a tad standoffish when it comes to discussing other game systems here.  

 

 

[BaldoBeardo]

AoS pulled me back into the universe. All the elements of AoS that garnered the vitriol initially (no points, smaller units, simpler) fixed issues with WFB I didn't realise I had. (If anyone's bored enough, you might have picked up I'm not the greatest fan of the GHB..)

To give an example of the issues the 'day 1' crowd got, my permanent ban from Warseer came in a thread requesting they separate off AoS and WFB forums because of the abuse AoS players were getting and the automatic offensive-defense it caused...
As for other systems; T9A is a continuation and refinement of the things I'd fallen out of love with about WFB. There is also (my perception) the mild snobbery around it being a 'proper' game because it's complicated in comparison. It's also effectively a child of a messy divorce.
KoW/Mantic. Mmmmpf. I just cannot get behind Mantic, for two reasons; 1) the quality of their miniature output is stupidly variable, with the average being sub-par in terms of rendering/technical quality. 2) Can't blame them for it - it's a financial niche - but I wish they wouldn't make it so bloody obvious they're lapping up the scraps from GW's table. Or a company that uses kickstarter as a pre-orders service.

That said, people like what they like. This is an obsessive, subjective hobby. Do what you like, enjoy. I'm not a fan of online echo chambers, but TGA is notable for the lack of vitriol compared to others. There's still disagreements.
I'm glad Blood Bowl is back for example, because I had a Guildball hankering that I was spectacularly failing to pass on to my group.


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[Lucio]

Generally speaking, people who aren't secure in their choice seek to reduce or destroy dissenting opinions to reinforce their own, weak belief. When it comes to game systems, that then gets further reinforced by the sheer coste (time, money etc.) so there's more pressure to be right.

 

At the end of the day, I enjoy AoS, and have opponents to play. I don't know anyone with other, non-GW game systems (at least not for tabletop wargames), do don't play anything else. Would I try other systems? Sure because being open to new ideas is how you avoid insecurity.

[Chris Tomlin]

Absolutely pointless thread. Get it locked up, no good will come of this and it is detrimental to the forum as a whole. I don't want to see this type of nonsense start popping up here all the time. Put a stop to it before it starts.

I've honestly never seen a mention of KoW or T9A on here...do you know why? Because this is an AoS forum and we talk AoS! These other games do not occupy our thoughts as we are too busy enjoying our game.

There is unequivocally no hate here and I would strongly suggest you are looking for something that just isn't here.

It seems to me that it's the other communities that like to mention AoS a lot more and "how it's doing" etc.

[RossMHoward]

Just to echo previous statements, AOS was the recipient of a huge tide of criticism in it's first year. Especially pre generals handbook. 

Most of the criticism at our local club came from former 8th ed players. During 8th, there were 4 8th ed players who played on a regular basis, and a few others who claimed to play it but were more preoccupied with 40k or Bloodbowl. 

Yet when 8th ed was canned they were the loudest opponents. It was slightly ironic, people who'd made no purchases or played little to none of it over the two years I was a member not making the connection between lack of sales and support and the end of a line of products. 

The regulars amongst us stuck with AoS through various comp systems and had a really good time together. The only dampener on that was the constant need to justify the game to an audience of critics who we'd never want to game with anyway. New players came in, taking our regular numbers from 4 to over 20. And throughout this process, some of the new players began to tire of the sideways comments from the other game systems in attendance. One in fact told another club member to ****** off as he was fed up of justifying his hobby. The argument itself was based on the assumption that he was playing AoS as he was brand new. When in fact he'd been in the hobby since childhood. The mood from some people was that AoS was a game for kids or at least greenhorn hobbyists. It was abhorrent to the old grumblers that people could have played various game systems over the years and then chosen AoS as their superior. 

Throughout this period, Kings of War started to take off to a lesser extent. We've got a good mix at the club now, and aside from one particularly grumpy KoW player, there's a lot of positivity for both systems between players. We also have a couple of crossover players and the KoW crowd are constantly offering people demo games to introduce people to the hobby, the same way we do with AoS. They're great ambassadors for their hobby. 

Going back to the sideways comments. A lot of that came from a few of the veteran KoW players. That's now changed to be genuine interest in the mechanics of the game and models. We're all ultimately fantasy gamers and love the setting. It's the rules that divide us. 

Let's save the scorn for the labyrinthine rule systems of 40k instead. 

[WSDdeloach]

Shut err down


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[Soulsmith]

12 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said:

Absolutely pointless thread. Get it locked up, no good will come of this and it is detrimental to the forum as a whole. I don't want to see this type of nonsense start popping up here all the time. Put a stop to it before it starts.

I've honestly never seen a mention of KoW or T9A on here...do you know why? Because this is an AoS forum and we talk AoS! These other games do not occupy our thoughts as we are too busy enjoying our game.

There is unequivocally no hate here and I would strongly suggest you are looking for something that just isn't here.

It seems to me that it's the other communities that like to mention AoS a lot more and "how it's doing" etc.

Da Megaboss az spoken ladz!

[CoffeeGrunt]

I gotta concur with the rest of the people here and note that you don't really seem to have a point, I'm afraid. This is an Age of Sigmar forum, we discuss Age of Sigmar here. There isn't even an Off-Topic section, and while that's often nice I quite like the focused nature of this group.

Wanting to keep it that way is in no way, "isolationist." As I imagine many other people here do, I play plenty of other games. I've got Dropfleet and Dropzone Commander forces, Flames of War, Warhammer 40K, etc. When I want to discuss them, I go to the dedicated forums for them. I mean, if you think this forum is focused, you haven't visited Bolter and Chainsword or Advanced Tau Tactica. They're sites that solely and exclusively have discussion on 40K Imperial and 40K Tau forces respectively, and the fact that they're so focused makes them excellent for specific advice from other players of those forces, rather than getting general advice likely from people who have no experience playing those armies.

Also everyone here is so polite that I don't really understand where your assertions of hatefulness are coming from. Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of Mantic, but nor was I really a fan of WHFB. There's discussion on Mantic models which pretty much goes like, "yeah the Undead are cool, but everything else is woeful for the most part."

If you wanna see hateful vitriol, sign up to Facebook, join 40K For Grown-Ups and post that you're really looking forward to 40K being AoS-ified. Heck, I dare you just to praise AoS or note that it has good ideas 40K could take without any true vitriol spewing over you.

[BasetheRuin]

Absolutely pointless thread. Get it locked up, no good will come of this and it is detrimental to the forum as a whole. I don't want to see this type of nonsense start popping up here all the time. Put a stop to it before it starts.
I've honestly never seen a mention of KoW or T9A on here...do you know why? Because this is an AoS forum and we talk AoS! These other games do not occupy our thoughts as we are too busy enjoying our game.
There is unequivocally no hate here and I would strongly suggest you are looking for something that just isn't here.
It seems to me that it's the other communities that like to mention AoS a lot more and "how it's doing" etc.

Totally agree. The less is said about this 'matter', the more I enjoy my hobby, of which Age of Sigmar is a big part.

[HobbyHammer]

@Darth Alec, your a moderator.. Do you have the power to shut this post down? 

[CoffeeGrunt]

There's no need to? The discussion is already petering-out, just let it die.

[DeadlySarcasm]

It's quite clear this thread is getting a lot of negative attention. This is not productive or appropriate for this forum, therefore I am making the decision to lock the thread.