HCMistborn Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 I don't have anything constructive to add, I just need to say that these Dwarf models are all amazing. They have had such a strong and incredible range for such a long time and so much of it still looks great. Even the stuff in AOS that might vanish, the Dispossessed or seems to be moving to TOW are still so great looking. Then I see something like the new models like the Kings and the new White Dwarf, and I am starting to wonder if they are just that good, or do I love Dwarfs and I haven't accepted it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 (edited) So, I have a tournament on june 2: 1500p, 3 units max repeated. Legends/Armies of infamy allowed. Anyone has a good list for fun? I'm a big fan of armies of infamy, but not sure if I can paint 80-120 slayers without going insane (already tired after painting 16 quarrellers and 12 thunderers, and it's so boring). Edited April 23 by Beliman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Misfire Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 5 hours ago, Beliman said: So, I have a tournament on june 2: 1500p, 3 units max repeated. Legends/armies of infamy allowed. Anyone has a good list for fun? I'm a big fan of armies of infamy, but not sure if I can paint 80-120 slayers without going insane (already tires after paiting 16 quarrellers and 12 thunderers and it's so boring). I've not re-rebased my models or played a single game of TOW yet because I'm snowed under with work lazy, but Gyrocopters are a solid bet, not just for the obvious firepower, but also because dwarfs really struggle to pursue and catch things, which is kind of important if the tournament's scoring on victory points. Units of five Irondrakes with a Trollhammer Torpedo in each also give you way more bang for your buck and durability than warmachines, which makes me sad, because I have a lot of painted warmachines, and can't find any Irondrake models that fit in with my old metal army. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarouan Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 IMHO (well, for now, mostly as a vile greenskin player who play against the bearded shortstacks ), rangers, Ironbreakers, Hammerers, Gyrocopters (3 because can't take more thanks to tournament restrictions ) and a good melee character on shieldbearers with runic two-handed weapon and the rune canceling killing blow are solid bases. Irondrakes used as detachment of a solid unit of ironbreakers can be a nasty surprise too for your opponents. Gyros are the key to keep dwarves mobile and go after some threats your heavy infantry has difficulties to reach (duh !) Rangers in skirmisher formations can fire their crossbows on technical 2 ranks without the need to be on a hill (and they can be deployed where they're the most helpful too), adding to the fact they are much more useful to protect your flanks than classic dwarf shooters (they can shoot / charge 360° as skirmishers, after all !). Ironbreakers are simply the toughest anvil you'll ever see, while hammerers hit very hard. I'm not convinced at using an anvil of doom at this format : it's really expensive and the rest of your core army will need also a lot of points to be efficient. It's also an easy target that can be completely useless if you deploy it wrong (since you can't move it at all afterwards). In fact, at this format, I'll be tempted to play without a runesmith and use some gyro to "shut down" enemy wizards by charging them / their unit if they are a bit too annoying... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerekKruger Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 (edited) I think Irondrakes stand out as a very good unit, generally taken in 5s with a Champion with a Trollhammer Torpedo. Cannons are much finished from older editions of WHFB, but a BS 5 mini cannon for 36 points is pretty good (and it's not like his four mates with Drakeguns are bad). Irondrakes are also nasty enough in combat that a lot of skirmishers, fast cav and other traditional weak target hunters might not be able to reliable near them. Cinderblast Bombs on the Champ help here, since they can be used to Stand and Shoot and D6+1 Strength 5 AP -1 attacks (plus the 4 Drakeguns Attacks) will likely put a fair dent of Combat Res into the event before the fighting Even really begins). Gyrocopters seem almost necessary as the only fast thing Dwarfs get. Don't be afraid to charge line wizards with them D3 Impact Hits, 2 Strength 4 attacks and Toughness 5 with a 4+ Save makes you pretty likely to win combat against most mages (be careful of Chaos Sorcerers, Bray Shamans etc., who are no joke on combat). At the very least you'll tie up their ability to cast and dispel to some extent. Edited April 24 by JerekKruger 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarouan Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 (edited) Yeah, gyrocopters are surprisingly tough in close combat (well of course you don't send them against, say, a chaos lord). One time I "charged" one with 2 surviving squig hoppers and didn't manage to kill it (he wiped them out in ripost, lol). For its cost, it's performing a lot of key roles in the army very well. Trollhammer torpedo looks indeed good on the paper, but a unit of 5 irondrakes doesn't work like a war machine : it doesn't pivot for free on its axis for line of sight. Plus 24'' range only works if the enemy is effectively coming at you - you'll be in trouble fighting other armies that stay out of range and use their own war machines to force you to go forward while they pummel your 18/24'' range infantry shooting units from a safe distance (be warned, even greenskins can be nastily good at this game ). It's also a bit harder to shoot flying big monsters who are delighted putting themselves on your unit's flanks or back and force you to reorient / reform. I'm not really sure they effectively replace a cannon on that matter...or even a couple of ballista, to be honest. Edited April 24 by Sarouan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 Thanks a lot for the inputs @Sarouan I don't have any ranger, but I already have primed 2 units of 5 irondrakes. Still need a lot of core units (mainly dwarf warriors), king on shieldbearers and at least 2 gyros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarouan Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 No problem ! You can take one unit of rangers as core, I highly recommand to do so since it's freeing space in the rare spot. I saw some equiped with crossbows and two handed weapons for versatility - they can thus shoot but also do a salvation charge against some really annoying units on your flanks / support your main infantry. I guess you could take a big unit of rangers to fill your core minimum, but it will be a very big unit that will be tempting for the enemy to focus on. I'm not saying it won't work, mind you...actually, maybe it will ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 If any of my slayers die in a glorious battle, can the impact of the Deathblow be affected by Slayer-type rules? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonhel Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 I would say yes. Is this mentioned in the FAQ? If not, I see no reason why it wouldn't be allowed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerekKruger Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 I would hope the answer is yes, because otherwise the rule is kinda meh. That said, I could see an interpretation where "the model" isn't making that To Wound roll, since the Deathblow role doesn't say "the model makes a Strength 3 hit with AP -1 that automatically hits". As an aside, I really wish this rule scaled. For basic Troll Slayers it's okay, but why aren't Giant Slayers hitting at Strength 4, and why don't Dragon and Daemon Slayers hit more than once. I'd have preferred a Fight on Death rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordeus Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 Hopefully slayers are getting something interesting in the arcane journal. They really aren't good right now but more importantly they aren't fun to play. I don't mind level of strength if the unit is fun. For the advice all the stuff mentioned is good stuff. Ironbreakers are really tough as nails. I would also give drilled a chance now that it's been cleared up. Can lead to some surprising tactics that your opponent might not expect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 27 minutes ago, Mordeus said: Hopefully slayers are getting something interesting in the arcane journal. I hope so! Btw, anyone knows anything about the second army of renown and special characters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerekKruger Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 Things I'd like the see with Slayers in their Arcane Journal: Some sort of Talismatic Tattoo style rule. Perhaps something like the Blessing of the Lady, where it gives a better Ward vs. higher strength attacks, or maybe monsters. Swiftstride access for Slayers somehow. Ideally Daemon and Dragon Slayers should get the Monster Slaying rule which, to be honest, they always should have had. Youngrim should be brilliant! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarouan Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 2 hours ago, Beliman said: If any of my slayers die in a glorious battle, can the impact of the Deathblow be affected by Slayer-type rules? Question is about what/who causes the S3 PA-1 hit, basically. I'd say yes, because I tend to say it's the killed model that causes it and it's technically him who causes the automatic hit before being removed - so I'd say it's still him who "makes a roll to wound". I'd use this argument if my opponent argues against it in a tournament, but it could be interpreted in another way TBH : it's not answered in the FAQ specifically, so I guess it could be nice to ask GW about it. Slayers will definitely be in the arcane journal, and I expect to see a return of the famous "Look Snorri, Trolls !" special rule. Well, maybe with a different effect. Maybe they'll get an invulnerable save ? Like having so many slayers on the battlefield make them wanting to live just enough to have the biggest kill than their brothers or something like that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordeus Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 They definitely need some sort of protection. Right now anything sneezes on them and they go... A ward or a regen, technically they want to die with honor not to the first arrow shot by some bretonnian peasant with barely a tooth to his name Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerekKruger Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 Yeah I think whatever protection they get, it needs to be done carefully. You can't really have Slayers being too tanky, as that kinda goes against their entire concept. At the same time, if you have an entire army of them you need something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 I'm curious about Goblin Hewers. If I'm not wrong, the storm of chaos ones was a special unit (mainly Malakai), but maybe this new one is generic (Total Warhammer aproves this message). I'm still a bit sad that Long Drong's are not returning... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarouan Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 Regeneration would help them survive a bit more but wounds still count in the result of the fight (of course, slayers will never flee but it can help an enemy unit to break free from a fight to the death they don't want to commit). Just without the flammable rule that would make them like Tomb King mummies or Trolls. TBH, giving them a "save" of any kind is a bit against their theme (they really want to die, after all). Just having the possibility of taking a few units as core / having some way to engage faster their favorite enemies could be already good enough. That and - rumbling sound - SLAYER SKILLS ! (yes they totally had them in the past and they rocked, baby !) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarouan Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 3 minutes ago, Beliman said: I'm curious about Goblin Hewers. If I'm not wrong, the storm of chaos ones was a special unit (mainly Malakai), but maybe this new one is generic (Total Warhammer aproves this message). I'm still a bit sad that Long Drong's are not returning... I wonder too...especially if Malakai Makaisson is with it (he's a dwarf, I guess he could be living quite long like Ungrim, in the end). Regiments of Renown tend to be mercenary units, but we know the Dragon Company will be in the arcane journal too and they are totally a mercenary unit for sure. We'll see. Though I'm not sure it will really matter, since having a shooting unit in a Slayer army tends to leave it alone while the rest runs forward. It's like free food for light cavalry / flying units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 (edited) 9 hours ago, Sarouan said: I wonder too...especially if Malakai Makaisson is with it (he's a dwarf, I guess he could be living quite long like Ungrim, in the end). Regiments of Renown tend to be mercenary units, but we know the Dragon Company will be in the arcane journal too and they are totally a mercenary unit for sure. We'll see. The weird thing is that Malakai was not seen around the Goblin Hewer in any of the Dwarf promotion pics... suspicious. Edited April 29 by Beliman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarouan Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 That's true...and since it's a metal kit, it's not hard to produce the Goblin Hewer without Malakai if they don't want him to show up. Either way, I don't mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jator Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 6 hours ago, Sarouan said: TBH, giving them a "save" of any kind is a bit against their theme (they really want to die, after all). To die...in combat! I think some save against ranged attacks won't be that out of place. Just Grimnir lending them a hand to find a proper death instead of an ignominious one. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerekKruger Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 2 hours ago, Jator said: To die...in combat! I think some save against ranged attacks won't be that out of place. Just Grimnir lending them a hand to find a proper death instead of an ignominious one. Also combat against a worthy for, so a save of some sort against weak enemies (maybe anything with a strength less than or equal to the Slayer's toughness) wouldn't go amiss. It would be a huge shame for Slayers to die to goblins when there are Trolls, Giants, Dragons or Daemons waiting just round the corner eh. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 (edited) Make slayers fast to get on target (fast, for a dwarf) charging with swiftstride for example (but +D3 instead of D6) Edited April 29 by JackStreicher 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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