Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[Unit1126PLL]

I have found the assured summoning useful.... that's it though.

[JackOfBlades]

43 minutes ago, azdimy said:

Anybody else find the fane of Slaanesh not useful anymore? No more depravity generation with it and plenty of other means to get +1 to wound that there are no reason to stack mean it s been relegated to a terrain piece to hide small heroes for me. It s a shame really when you compare it with the new khorne skull altar. Reroll prayers, increase invocation range, can summon within 16 and does so even if smashed to rubble

The fane was one of the things i thought they would rewrite for sure, i was very surprised that it's essentially the same.

[KrispyXIV]

I'm not, at this point, overly concerned about the Fane - its not like its actively bad or anything, its got uses, and its not a keystone of our faction abilities or anything.  And our other battle traits seem plenty strong.  

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

I'm going to wax lyrical about Slaaneshi aesthetics for a post, if you'll indulge me.

I've just finished putting the final lick of paint on the Masque. What a fantastic miniature! I love that in a world of big swords and big suits of armour and loadsaskulls, we have daemons cavorting around in elaborate ruffs and suspender'd stockings.  It's this kind of sartorial madness that has kept me an avid Slaanesh devotee for over twenty-five years now (my first ever Games Workshop purchase, incidentally, was a Chaos Sorcerer, who I promptly painted up with lurid pink robes. Nothing's really changed). 

Leafing through the new book has refreshed my fascination with the Dark Prince. The models might now show a little more restraint in their flights of fancy (no more bows...) but they're still, for my money, the most distinctive, extravagant and downright gorgeous miniatures in the Age of Sigmar range. Which is just how Slaanesh himself would want it. I mean, the swagger and arrogance of that Lord of Hubris model... sheer perfection. 

Basically, what I'm saying is: your army might have won, but we're more fabulous than you, biitch. 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Big Kim Woof-Woof

[Magnus The Blue]

Yup, for one am really happy with the book.  Lots of really interesting rules and great characterful play style.  Tempting my opponent with 6s add a bit more fun to opponent's turns.  

Played slaves last night with the pretenders list I posted, went well but Pretenders does feel a bit over the top. 

[Battlebeard]

I have a probably silly question about the Lord of Hubris and Phantasmagoria before my first game tomorrow. 

If I charge a unit under the effects of Phantasmagoria with the Lord of Hubris and another unit, say Painbringers, and use the Lord of Hubris' ability to make the enemy unit target him...

...what happens if the Lord of Hubris retreats when the enemy unit is picked to activate? Can they then target the Painbringers because the Lord of Hubris has run away, or can they not target anything at all?

Sorry if this question has already been asked, I did a quick search but didn't find anything.

[JerekKruger]

3 minutes ago, Battlebeard said:

I have a probably silly question about the Lord of Hubris and Phantasmagoria before my first game tomorrow. 

If I charge a unit under the effects of Phantasmagoria with the Lord of Hubris and another unit, say Painbringers, and use the Lord of Hubris' ability to make the enemy unit target him...

...what happens if the Lord of Hubris retreats when the enemy unit is picked to activate? Can they then target the Painbringers because the Lord of Hubris has run away, or can they not target anything at all?

Sorry if this question has already been asked, I did a quick search but didn't find anything.

I'd say they simply can't attack. The rule states that "... all of that unit's attacks must target this unit". It doesn't include any qualifiers like "if they can" or "all of that unit's attacks that can target this unit must do so", so the fact they are unable to do so is irrelevant.

Of course this may be subject to FAQ change.

[zombiepiratexxx]

While the Fane might not have quite as much synergy as it used to, the fact that it's free means that we get at least a screening piece of terrain, as well as being able to chuck a used artefact into it for a permanent buff still and not have to worry so much about positioning or CPs for at least one hero getting a bonus. 

Very interesting stats on the Keeper. For my Pretenders list, I've put a non-general Keeper in there but will admit that missing SoG does give me pause, the General is so important in that sub-faction I think they'll probably be more easily taken in Invaders. Still, it's a gorgeous model and mine's been sitting in his box since 2019 so it's about time he came out to play! 

Edited March 30, 2023 by zombiepiratexxx

[Unit1126PLL]

2 hours ago, Battlebeard said:

I have a probably silly question about the Lord of Hubris and Phantasmagoria before my first game tomorrow. 

If I charge a unit under the effects of Phantasmagoria with the Lord of Hubris and another unit, say Painbringers, and use the Lord of Hubris' ability to make the enemy unit target him...

...what happens if the Lord of Hubris retreats when the enemy unit is picked to activate? Can they then target the Painbringers because the Lord of Hubris has run away, or can they not target anything at all?

Sorry if this question has already been asked, I did a quick search but didn't find anything.

I have used this exact trick twice, and not only does it work this way but I think it is intended to.

[Magnus The Blue]

Shalaxi actually feels like a solid option now.  Especially invaders with the potential for +2 attacks (Cameo and Best of the Best) for a frankly rude 8 2+/2+ 5 damage attacks. If you have a good enough target (ie. lots of wounds) you could even double attack using a near by regular keeper for an obscene amount of damage that could reasonably get you 40+ EK depravity.  A bit of a cheesy combo but could almost win you the game in one turn.

[Unit1126PLL]

I am having too much fun building lists - agreed on Shalaxi, she has made it in and been cut out so many times.

I guess I am having trouble with the last 400 pts or so, haha. Rest of the list I am pretty sure about. Maybe just slapping in Shalaxi and calling it a day is good. 

[KrispyXIV]

45 minutes ago, Magnus The Blue said:

Shalaxi actually feels like a solid option now.  Especially invaders with the potential for +2 attacks (Cameo and Best of the Best) for a frankly rude 8 2+/2+ 5 damage attacks. If you have a good enough target (ie. lots of wounds) you could even double attack using a near by regular keeper for an obscene amount of damage that could reasonably get you 40+ EK depravity.  A bit of a cheesy combo but could almost win you the game in one turn.

The problem is we really need an FAQ for Best of the Best to work with Uniques, though even without that... Shalaxi at least isn't awful now.  

Theyre combat cability is probably better than a standard keeper if you don't want to mess with the Fight Twice ability, or if you want two Keepers with Shalaxi as the second.  Shalaxi is more durable than a Knife Keeper for a damage dealer. 

[JerekKruger]

48 minutes ago, Magnus The Blue said:

Shalaxi actually feels like a solid option now.  Especially invaders with the potential for +2 attacks (Cameo and Best of the Best)

Can unique characters take Command Traits and Artifacts? 

[KrispyXIV]

7 minutes ago, JerekKruger said:

Can unique characters take Command Traits and Artifacts? 

I think they meant icon of infinite excess, which can be triggered by someone else, instead of Cameo at least. 

[ibel]

7 minutes ago, JerekKruger said:

Can unique characters take Command Traits and Artifacts?

No, but in Invaders u can give Heros Command Traits they didnt have already and i dont see why he cant use this rule (there is no restriction to Non-Uniqu-Heros)

[KrispyXIV]

5 minutes ago, ibel said:

No, but in Invaders u can give Heros Command Traits they didnt have already and i dont see why he cant use this rule (there is no restriction to Non-Uniqu-Heros)

Two restrictions, actually.  

First, the Invaders rule says "eligible" command trait, and as unique heroes can't normally receive command traits its unclear if "eligible" means "command trait the character could receive" or "command trait on this list".

Second, the core rules state that unique characters can't benefit from enhancements they somehow manage to receive. 

Edited March 30, 2023 by KrispyXIV

[Wordy9th]

I struggle with units like painbringers and twin souls. I just want a “block” of something that doesn’t come with a downside or need massive synergy, and there doesn’t seem to be much out there. The closest thing to a damage dealer in this book seems to be slaangors, and they’re a pain to make work. 

[ibel]

15 minutes ago, KrispyXIV said:

Two restrictions, actually.  

oh jes jes thats right, 

[ibel]

14 minutes ago, Wordy9th said:

painbringers

Would be my choice in Unit (in Men of 10)

But a really "all_round" Unit like 20-30 Nurgle Warrior with banner i dont see in the Hedonit Book jes

[Unit1126PLL]

Re

19 minutes ago, Wordy9th said:

I struggle with units like painbringers and twin souls. I just want a “block” of something that doesn’t come with a downside or need massive synergy, and there doesn’t seem to be much out there. The closest thing to a damage dealer in this book seems to be slaangors, and they’re a pain to make work. 

Really? I highly recommend seekers (of any type) and once your buffs are turned on (probably by Seekers) daemonettes blocks can hurt.

This book seems to have a smooth natural curve, escalating from initial strong spellcasting (love the Mesmerizing Mirror) through fast-moving cavalry units that can spook the enemy into a bad redeploy, then ranged poke with Blissbarbs that start to either wrack units (mortal wounds) or commence the depravity chain. Then a final charge with one of the melee Seekers (I use the Daemon ones but Slickblades hit like a bus into certain units). Pick them for your EK, and you can easily break 12 depravity in one turn. I have gotten 24 top of Turn 1 with some bad opponent choices on Temptation Dice and a keeper double-attacking my EK Seekers. 

My damage dealers are Blissbarbs and cavalry early, and heroes and foot troops once the buffs start rolling in.

 

This army *feels* good to play, with smooth phase transitions neatly laid out on a handy table for you, and good tempo control through speed and the ability to turn off enemy units at critical junctures (no matter what Host you choose).

Edited March 30, 2023 by Unit1126PLL

[Magnus The Blue]

Oh yes did mean Icon.  I do hope they rule that invades does let you give command traits to uniques as it will make that a viable alternative to Pretenders for Unique heavy lists.   Even if they don't a double activating +1 attack Shalaxi is one of the best EK units to explode on someone early game. 

[Grimrock]

9 hours ago, Magnus The Blue said:

Yup, for one am really happy with the book.  Lots of really interesting rules and great characterful play style.  Tempting my opponent with 6s add a bit more fun to opponent's turns.  

Played slaves last night with the pretenders list I posted, went well but Pretenders does feel a bit over the top. 

I played a game against slaves last night as well and I felt the same way. The number of command points is just kind of nutty. For example S2D took the first turn to avoid a nasty alpha strike and to clear out The Masque in the backline. I redeployed the Masque and did all out defense in the shooting and melee phases and it didn't even come close to making me feel tight on CP. Afte that the keeper one shot a 14 wound daemon prince that was under finest hour and all out defense. Then she proceeded to face tank a charging varanguard unit even though she lost her ward from a nurgle prince (this was thanks mainly to the -1 to hit). Thanks to the fact that she survived that varanguard charge the Crown just absolutely neutered a unit of 10 chosen, which were subsequently obliterated by 10 myrmidesh under the Lord of Pain buff and a double pile in from the keeper. There was some good luck on dice here and there, but honestly it didn't feel outside of the standard deviation.

The army feels just... so smooth now. Incredibly fast, hard hitting, resilient once you can get some depravity. Incredible shooting units, incredible buffs, excellent options from the book that cover pretty much anything you might need in a list, and all at a really reasonable point cost. Obviously too early to call OP, but I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a couple tweaks. The first thing I expect to see is the Lord of Pain's ability being changed to only affect melee weapons. It's just way too good with blissbarbs right now. 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Grimrock

[KrispyXIV]

1 hour ago, Grimrock said:

The first thing I expect to see is the Lord of Pain's ability being changed to only affect melee weapons. It's just way too good with blissbarbs right now. 

Is it?  +1 to hit for them is pretty cheap (triple so in Pretenders, other sub factions can just Reinforce one big unit to make their single AoA more efficient) and they already have +1 to wound.  

For Seekerbarbs, keeping up and positioning to trigger the buff while keeping them in the area - and in range of their targets as well - is a problem.  

For footbarbs, it's just a minor cost savings on a CA.  It's nice, but I definitely don't see it as great.  How are you benefitting from it significantly more than just CAing the unit?

[Grimrock]

1 hour ago, KrispyXIV said:

Is it?  +1 to hit for them is pretty cheap (triple so in Pretenders, other sub factions can just Reinforce one big unit to make their single AoA more efficient) and they already have +1 to wound.  

For Seekerbarbs, keeping up and positioning to trigger the buff while keeping them in the area - and in range of their targets as well - is a problem.  

For footbarbs, it's just a minor cost savings on a CA.  It's nice, but I definitely don't see it as great.  How are you benefitting from it significantly more than just CAing the unit?

Fair point on pretenders, but there are still some benefits. One would be to allow your general to move around freely without being tied to the blissbarb units. If your general is the Lord of Pain then sure, not a real issue, but if it's a keeper you're free to make full use of the 14" movement without any cost to core efficiency. Another would be easily getting around a -1 to hit by using both buffs. Assuming the galatian champion rules go away this summer people will be relying on look out sir again and 21 shots at a 2+/3+/-1 with no real counterplay and a potential threat range of 30ish inches will be an absolute nightmare. 

Thinking about it more maybe I'm just carrying some baggage over from other armies. For example khorne had some good shooting tech in their 2nd edition army book that was intentional (if you believe the designer that spoke up about it) but GW shut it down immediately. Generally speaking they don't seem to want chaos to be a shooting alliance outside of skaven and tzeentch, so I'm quick to assume they'll remove anything half decent. Maybe this will stick around unaffected but it makes me nervous haha. I should probably just try to enjoy nice things instead of constantly fearing the nerf bat.

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Grimrock

[Unit1126PLL]

There are lots of cases where a unit can shoot but can't receive the AoA command - one of my favorite uses for Blissbarbs is forcing a temptation dice during the enemy charge phase with Unleash Hell, but there are lots of ways to deny AoA (use it elsewhere when not pretenders, have them under a bubble of not receiving commands, etc). Combine with how useful +2 to-hit can be (Slaanesh mirror match hoooo!), I definitely see how +1 to hit would stack.

+1 to wound less so - though it does give the unit a "free" casualty with no loss of firepower if you just yoink the brew man.