Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[Jaskier]

Everything I've digested regarding the new Seraphon book is the KroakTrog bomb is well above the curve of what is otherwise a strong but fair faction, so it's fair to say you got a huge helping of the worst (to play against) / best (competitively) Seraphon has to offer now. 

[bonesaww666]

On 5/10/2023 at 11:57 AM, Alezya said:

Hellflayers are quite interesting now!

With Bladbringer on Hellflayer they used to be able to dish out Mortals on 2+ if a unit had 10+ Models, which made them a meat grinder to charge, with their damage being done at the star tof the Combat Phase, still are, just a little less reliable.

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by bonesaww666

[5kaven5lave]

On 5/13/2023 at 5:49 PM, MothmanDraws said:

They wont be terrible, I think they get better the bigger the brick and into certain match ups, they benefit from a lord of hubris for when they hit tougher enemies 

Thanks man. Don’t suppose anyone’s been using them successfully and has any tactics to use them at their best? To be honest I was thinking about hanging back with them to smash face in the mid-late game once I have at least exploding 6s, but move them up more aggressively early if they’re being shot at?

[Alezya]

On 5/14/2023 at 7:29 PM, Alezya said:

I played vs them yesterday.
The Seraphon book (or Kroak list) seems just stupid. Period.

We played on Position over Power, and going first + winning all initiative rolls until T5 (I just lost the last roll when I was already tabled: in T5 the idea was to go first and score 1 pt for holding 1 lol) won me the game because I was able to score enough points during the first 3 turns (hold 1-2-more + 1 for GC on flank objective + BT each turn), but otherwise it was a quite tough game...

He wanted to test some stuff, so went with a funky list: Kroak, 2 slanns (general with what gves 2 pts instead of 1 each time he casts some stuff), astrolith bearer, starpriest (or whatever his name is), oracle on troglodon (monster stuff), 2*5 saurus, 10 skinks.

Saturday was tournament day, and I had the "chance" to go against that same opponent in that same scenario. He was playing the same list.

Position over Power. 
I just made a minor change in my list, as I didn't have the slickblade models yet. I wanted a mortal unit choice (for Depraved Unity), and a GC choice (for the GC BTs) so I went for a shardspeaker (with tunnel master) for its utility on some close combat match-ups with the extra -1 save and -1A. Traded Slickblades for Shardspeaker and mesmerizing mirror. And went for Battle regiment = 3 drops. When I'll have my slickblades, I'll definitely go for 2 drops.

After the first game, we discussed it, and it was obvious that a single double turn from his side would hurt so much. 
The tournament game for the first 2 turns went exactly the same way our first game went. Except I scored one more VP thanks to my 2nd GC. 
But he got the double turn on T2-T3, killed my KoS + Shalaxi in same turn (negating my wards on Shalaxi). I managed to score a few points, but failed my BT in T4, and was tabled in T5, messing with my GS anyways.
If I won the T3 initiative roll, I would've scored much more VP, put some serious VP difference, and maybe I could've negated one of his BT.

"AoE" MWs are just... 

Game 2 vs Ogor list - Prize of Gallet
FLOSH
Butcher
2*4 Ironguts
6 Gluttons
20 gnoblars
2 Ironblasters

Pretty straightforward game.
I chose to go 2nd, as I deployed quite back in the board. I knew I couldn't outrange the Ironblasters, but at least I'd force him to open himself a bit, I activated the objective nearby the FLOSH to force the FLOSH to contest it, he went into the activated objective, then I went there but he rolled a 6" redeploy, therefore put himself out of charge. He was at 11-12" range of Shalaxi, but I forced his Finest Hour.
I won the initiative on T2, and chose to go 2nd to activate my own objective, He got scared a bit, so he continued to play his castle. No big dmg.
I killed his stuff, he killed my stuff, I killed his stuff. He killed my Keeper on an unleash hell (damn you gruesome trophy racks!) but then Shalaxi did the job.
I finish almost tabled (3 seekers left) but won the game as I had control over the objectives for like 3-4 turns? 

Game 3 vs Ogor Meatfist list - Realmstone Cache

Kragnos
5 Tyrants w/ Brawlerguts (the +1 to mw on the charge name)
3*4 leadbelchers

I just farmed Depravity points like crazy on this game: He was shooting every pistol with his tyrants, I was offering a lot of temptation dices, he started by taking the mws, but then he would just die to it, so as he needed the charge mws momentum to get into combat with my important stuff, he started to give me depravity points. It was a farm fest.

I went first, seekers run to block his moves just in front of his deployment zone, and annoy him the most I can.
First screen of demonettes to take the mws. Shalaxi in the center nearby Kragnos's side, KoS on the other side. Scored my BT, scored 1 + more.
Then he goes, he had to go around my unit of seekers, killed them off by shooting/charge. Managed a 17" charge on a leadbelcher unit, impacted my KoS (6 or 7mws in). He activated somewhere else, so I activated my KoS in return: Bim Bam boum killed them leadbelchers right away!!
He won the initiative, took the double turn, he moves in, I redeploy with my first screen of demonettes to put enough distances between the charges + pile in + hitting range, he charges with his tyrants into my demonettes, killed them off, managed to charge with Kragnos on Shalaxi: He rolls 2-1-1 on the charge Rerolls: 6-6-5  and scores 30MWs (6 and 5) on Shalaxi. Last time I played against him, I was playing Archaon and he did 36 mws, so, pretty standard stuff for him! 
Obviously Shalaxi dies. He piles in with Kragnos to kill my KoS but was unsuccessfull at it! Thanks to temptation dices, I was at 12 already. -1 to hit (I can't recall if he had a CP left. He used one for the rr charge for Kragnos, but can't remember what he did with the other one), Finest hour + mystic shield + all out defense + Aegis + good rolls gave me the tankyness needed. The KoS killed Kragnos in return (Icon of Excess was used).
Then we just continued trading units, but I got the upper hand in the end. Temptation dices were super frustrating for him, whereas were useless vs the Seraphon player.
Got hold on the objectives, some summoning allowed me to score more, did my GS, etc...

Finishing third of the tournament with 2W 1L. 
Quite happy about it! The list is finally making sense, and I manage to play it better than before. I do less mistakes than before, specially with my demonettes.
Demonettes are good with 24DPs in. They shine with it. Otherwise not so much. Seekers are very useful tools. 
The Masque is strong, put some pressure on the deployment and is useful for 1st turn DP generation against some armies. But sometimes I feel like I could put something else...
Invaders KoS + Shalaxi solid choices.
Less and less convinced by the Mesmerising Mirror, due to my inability to get 6s

Edited May 22, 2023 by Alezya

[azdimy]

After 10+ game I finally summoned last game and it was relevant. I lost my ward in the process but summoning an enrapturess to finish off a l ironclad full of gc that kept running away was the key to victory. I got lucky that he left glutos on 1 wound after his first round of shooting with mostly rend 3 and rend 4 shots thanks to a +2 rend from a khemist and an admiral combined abilities, +1 to wound army wide against him and no ward save allowed on poor glutos who kept getting targeted by a navigator to see its move halved.. But he survived and had only one wound on him round 5. What a champ! My list was

 - Army Faction: Hedonites of Slaanesh
     - Army Type: Pretenders
     - Grand Strategy: Take What’s Theirs
     - Triumph: Inspired
LEADERS
Glutos Orscollion (480)*
     - Spells: Phantasmagoria
Lord of Pain (135)*
     - General
     - Command Traits: Strength of Godhood
     - Artefacts of Power: The Crown of Dark Secrets
     - Aspects of the Champion:  Fuelled by Ghurish Rage
Contorted Epitome (190)*
     - Spells: Born of Damnation
BATTLELINE
Corvus Cabal (80)
Blissbarb Archers (150)*
Blissbarb Archers (150)*
Blissbarb Archers (150)*
OTHER
Slickblade Seekers (400)*
Blissbarb Seekers (200)*
ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS
1 x Mesmerising Mirror (60)
TERRAIN
1 x Fane of Slaanesh (0)
CORE BATTALIONS
*Battle Regiment
TOTAL POINTS: 1995/2000

My opponent had from memory

2 khemist, 2 admirals, 1 navigator

1 ironclad

2 double re8nforced units of thunderers

10 arkanaut

6 gryphound as allies

Endless spell bridge in a bottle

It was a bloody battle but the hedonites took out the win in the end 25-19

Slickblades were amazing being THE depravity generator and killing the big threats.

Everything performed well and redundancy is definitely needed aga8nst a shooting army that can kill almost any threat in any g8ven turn

The blissbarb seekers are mandatory imo against heavy armor units.( most of his army was on a 3+ save)

Buffed up Blissbarb archers on 2+/3+ rend 2 is crazy good while very fragile. Lost 2 units turn 1 but  just 1 unit did 14 wounds on a 3+ armoured unit in 1 round of shooting in my turn 1

Corvus cabal is any chaos army best ally at 80pts. I expext they ll go up at least 100pts in the next ghb

Mirror is what did the least for me this game but its potential is great. My opponent was shtting its pants when I placed it near it s boat loaded of characters and I know it can do well

My heroes rarely saw combat. It took a while for glutos to heal backup via hero8c rec9very and a single gorge on excess aga8snt the aranaut for 6 wounds back and my gc needing to stay alive to prevent my opponent grand strat have more gc than the opponent by end of game

[Alezya]

48 minutes ago, azdimy said:

Mirror is what did the least for me this game but its potential is great. My opponent was shtting its pants when I placed it near it s boat loaded of characters and I know it can do well

How do you play it vs garrisoned unit? You roll only 6 dices for the Ironclad? or Ironclad + every unit inside it? 

[azdimy]

5 minutes ago, Alezya said:

How do you play it vs garrisoned unit? You roll only 6 dices for the Ironclad? or Ironclad + every unit inside it? 

We played it 6 dice for the ironclad + 6 dice for every unit garrisoned in it. Is it not clear?

[Alezya]

I don't know, I'm just asking how it is played. I never really got the chance to play vs KO, I never had the chance to be paired with our only local KO player. 

And we are not using Garrison terrains.

[Beliman]

5 minutes ago, Alezya said:

I don't know, I'm just asking how it is played. I never really got the chance to play vs KO, I never had the chance to be paired with our only local KO player. 

And we are not using Garrison terrains.

Take in mind that KOs ships are not Garrisons anymore. We still have a bonus of -1 to be hit and +1 to our save rolls if we are embarked, but we are not tagged as being in a Garrison.

What @azdimy is talking about is that the range and LoS is mesured from the skyvessel intead of the unit (btw, the embarked unit is treated as if it's still on the table). In other words, if I have 3 units in an ironclad, and someone throws an AoE mw bomb (all units in range of X"...), all 3 units embarked and the Ironclad itself are going to be affected by that ability.

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

I've had something of a epiphany. Rambling post that has nothing to do with actual "rules" ahead.... 

I'm yet to add either Sigvald or Glutos to my little circus of agony. This is probably because I couldn't decide which character I personally identify with more (yes, this is the sort of fluff-entangled lack-of-real-strategy gaming style that I can't tear myself away from). On one hand, I'm typically a preening, prancing, arrogant, human peacock with a superiority complex and a need to take endless selfies. On the other hand, I'm also prone to being a useless great lump who sits on his backside while the nearest and dearest do all the work, and really, really, wants to order one of everything on the menu at dinner. 

My epiphany? Get both. Let my mood on the day of battle decide which one heads up my blasphemous throng. 

Expect a sequel of sorts when I get around to Dexcessa and Synessa. Well, I've actually already got Dexcessa, but courtesans will have their trinkets... 

[MothmanDraws]

Surely the most excessive option would be to have them all, a true hedonite wouldn't compromise on their consumption 

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

On 6/2/2023 at 6:26 AM, MothmanDraws said:

Surely the most excessive option would be to have them all, a true hedonite wouldn't compromise on their consumption 

Oh, what a delectable thought! 

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

To flirt with actual "rules" for a moment.... I assume I am correct in interpreting that a Slaves to Darkness Sorcerer drafted into a Hedonites force with the coaltion thingy can no longer use the relevant Slaanesh spell lore? 

Hell's teeth. They really are stripping away any value in using the coaltion units, arent they! I have a couple of gorgeous classic Chaos Sorcerer models that I've been routinely using in my army. I was very fond of the Judgement of Excess spell. Oh well... maybe from now on they can "count as" Shardspeakers or something. 

[azdimy]

On 6/3/2023 at 1:57 AM, Big Kim Woof-Woof said:

To flirt with actual "rules" for a moment.... I assume I am correct in interpreting that a Slaves to Darkness Sorcerer drafted into a Hedonites force with the coaltion thingy can no longer use the relevant Slaanesh spell lore? 

Hell's teeth. They really are stripping away any value in using the coaltion units, arent they! I have a couple of gorgeous classic Chaos Sorcerer models that I've been routinely using in my army. I was very fond of the Judgement of Excess spell. Oh well... maybe from now on they can "count as" Shardspeakers or something. 

Correct

You can still give them a universal spell and universal Artefact but that is it. We cannot even use them as conduit to summon anymore

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

19 hours ago, azdimy said:

Correct

You can still give them a universal spell and universal Artefact but that is it. We cannot even use them as conduit to summon anymore

Damn it. 

To be fair, I've got so many coaltion models that I probably could be running a Slaves to Darkness army with some Slaaneshi allies. Might have to investigate that option sometime... 

[Twisted Firaun]

Hey Everyone! I’ve working on this kitbash of Kragnos and the Keeper of Secrets kit and was wondering if you all could spare a thought/critique. I’m thinking of running it as either using the Helbane rules or as a Warstomper Megagargant.

[AronQ_]

Hello everyone! I have some questions about new hedonites book:
1) When I use Figureheads of the Dark Prince, if I have 3-4 heroes do I roll 2+ for all of them or just one?
2) When I have Best of the Best trait, do I get +1 attack for every hero near general? 
3) When I play invaders do I get only one cp or 1 cp for every hero because they treat like generals?

4) When I have Strength of Godhood, if I play pretenders, when I issues a command to units, does the rend and damage stacks? I mean if I issued all three times do I have plus 3 damage and 3 rend or I will have only +1 dmg -1 rend anyway?
5) Can I have any example for Breathtaker trait? I think it is not so useful compare to other traits

 

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

Played a few games this last week or so.

The first was against those goody-goody fancy aelf lordy-types (I can never remember their proper name... and I don't really care), which I inevitably lost with aplomb. The second was against a Seraphon host, which I also lost, but with a little more dignity... ie: I had some models left on the table. I hadn't faced the Seraphon in ages - damn, their magic is fierce nowadays!  The third was against a Slaves to Darkness army in which I ran rings around my opponent's plodding cohorts and snatched a victory at last! 

Notes to self: 

- Pick and choose fights better with heroes. I keep belting into melee with my Lord of Pain and the like, and it seldom pays off. I need to finish painting Sigvald if I'm going to go gung-ho in combat, I think. 

- The Infernal Enrapturess is deliciously fun to use, even if it fails to earn it's points back. Plus the model is fantastic. Persevere with it. 

- Stop using coalition units. 

 

[pixieproxy]

Whats the general opinion on the points changes? Was thinking about maybe picking up one of the twins...

[KrispyXIV]

26 minutes ago, pixieproxy said:

Whats the general opinion on the points changes? Was thinking about maybe picking up one of the twins...

Seems to me that they gave a minor hike to the elements that were common in the very successful lists pushing slaanesh win rates above median, while pushing down most of the other options to make them more appealing.  

Meaning if you want to keep running just the meta stuff, you'll need to either drop a unit or pick SOMETHING to swap for the next best thing.

My off meta lists I've been running for fun with tons of daemonettes and Shalaxi and such made out well, and can essentially fit another unit

Altogether, it all seems pretty reasonable to me. 

Edited July 6, 2023 by KrispyXIV

[Jaskier]

Synessa down 30, Syll'Esske down 15 pretty much cancels out the increases Blisseys and Slicks copped, Sigvald even got rounded down to 200. Synessa looks like the big winner, she can't be a Locus but benefits from the new look out sir (works on unique heroes!) and the other two aforementioned named heroes also benefit too but got smaller price cuts. Sigvald looks so good now that he can't be targeted outside of 12". 

[ibel]

Hello,

did anyone have experience with the new Generals and Points ?!

I played a game yesterday with

Belakor, CoEp, LoP, Shardspeaker and 22 BA, 2x5 Painb and 5 SSeeker, 5 BlissbSeeker and Mirror, Geminis and Burning Head.

against Skaven (2x6 Stormfiends, 2x20 Clanrats, 1 WarpblitzK and Heros) and...

1. Giminis are Awesome

2. Casting is easyer but banned is more more easyer

3. Belakor is always good... (he go down in points also)

4. Sickblades are super.... so what else can i say ?!?!

 

What do u think what we gone Play ?!

[5kaven5lave]

Slaangor meta incoming guys*. Points drops and being able to run 6s makes them way better. 
 

*may or may not be joking. 

Edited July 8, 2023 by 5kaven5lave

[azdimy]

I don t see enough changes for Hedonites in this battlescroll to matter what will be played.  HoS win rate should drop slightly as more powerful armies have been released: Seraphon, Soulblight, OBR.

We have no good caster to play this edition that emphasize on wizards. Contorded Epitome rerolls  doesn t synergize with primal dice.

The recent faq made the enrapturess a lot less appealing since opponent can use primal dice after rerolls

This means more point drops for us in  the next round I hope

[5kaven5lave]

16 hours ago, azdimy said:

The recent faq made the enrapturess a lot less appealing since opponent can use primal dice after rerolls

Ah, damn. So, the way I’m reading it is that even if you make them re-roll, they can still add a primal dice to it, and if that primal dice is a 6 or makes a double, it doesn’t matter? So the unit is basically pointless now? That’s my fancy jank up in smoke 😅

EDIT: maybe that’s a bit hasty, if there isn’t always Primal dice around it still has a niche?

Edited July 8, 2023 by 5kaven5lave