Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[Grimrock]

3 hours ago, LeonBox said:

I'm afraid not, and you'll likely struggle to find one separate, as it only comes with the Masque and is an integral part of her kit. 

I was recently treated to this set of cards for Slaanesh, complete with a Slaanesh-specific cheat sheet, if anyone else is going to find this useful: 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1s6u2wqu1olIn4Xi_ATEfpMW__hsc7GMd/view

The kit does come with two so you can pick which mask is up and which is down though. Anyone that has built the plastic version should have an extra one but I kinda doubt @Sonnenspeer is in my neck of the woods haha. Can't imagine it'd be worth shipping either, probably cheaper to just buy the model.

[Sonnenspeer]

14 hours ago, Grimrock said:

neck of the woods

as I had to google this phrase - probably not

[LeonBox]

18 hours ago, Grimrock said:

The kit does come with two so you can pick which mask is up and which is down though. Anyone that has built the plastic version should have an extra one but I kinda doubt @Sonnenspeer is in my neck of the woods haha. Can't imagine it'd be worth shipping either, probably cheaper to just buy the model.

Oh really? It's been so long since I built her that I clean forgot about that! 

[Grimrock]

3 hours ago, LeonBox said:

Oh really? It's been so long since I built her that I clean forgot about that! 

I probably would have as well but I was digging though my bits box on the weekend to make a Lady of Pain conversion and just happened to notice it. Honestly not sure why GW figured it was important to include that particular option but hey, at least now I have an extremely esoteric bit that can sit in a box forever haha. 

[Adammck66]

Hey,

I have mt first game tomorrow and using Pretenders and bringing Dexcessa. 

If my lord of pain is my general, can Dexcessa do 3 commands per 1 since she is a Warmaster thus counts as a General?

 

 

[KrispyXIV]

19 minutes ago, Adammck66 said:

Hey,

I have mt first game tomorrow and using Pretenders and bringing Dexcessa. 

If my lord of pain is my general, can Dexcessa do 3 commands per 1 since she is a Warmaster thus counts as a General?

 

 

No, the Pretenders benefits apply to the model chosen to be your general.  Not any model who counts as a general.

[Alezya]

I'll share here the comments I made on another forum, cause I'd like to have some feedbacks!

I'll ask you guys to forgive me: I'm a bit diminished because of a damaged wrist (can't even paint right now! and I'm a bit lazy to be honest ), and I used Deepl to translate most of the stuff, so some sentences/wordings may be a bit weird:

So I've played a few games in Slaanesh (only Invaders for the moment, as I find the ability to give -1 save to any unit within 6" of a hero very very strong! With very interesting spells, and a particular artifact that enhances the army: the Icon.
It's worth what it's worth. I've made some mistakes, including some match-up estimates, some bad artifact estimates (Beguiling Gem - the artifact is good in itself, but a bit random, considering that heroes often have high bravery) but I'm not doing too badly overall. 

I've mostly played daemon on tabletop (due to not having the mortal minis yet), and some mortals (taking a bit of everything to see the impact of scrolls) on TTS.

A few global comments, mostly from what I've seen as shared on other places:
1/ The opponent should/would never, ever give depravity pts on Temptation dices! The players who gave me depravity pts, they regretted it directly. It increases exponentially the damage and the tanking of the army. It's just a crazy thing to do. It's a huge mistake. So, yeah, usually the opponent will take 6d3 mws per battle round. 
And not every army can soak it anyway. A Death player, he'll take it without worrying I think. But against some armies, it can go fast. Especially with the Rally nerf, it's getting a bit more tense. Not everyone can afford 6d3 mws per battle round. 

2/ Slickblades are the best thing, in my opinion, for the T1 depravity generation (I specify T1).

Knowing that the most important tier (but not necessarily the hardest) in my opinion is the first one: -1 to hit, that's the first objective to reach for us. Once you have the first one, you tank a bit better, which allows you to manage the glasscanon aspect of the army.
The hardest tier (still in my opinion) is the 2nd one. Once the opponent has understood how the DP work (at some point, the opponent can happen to accept to give depravity if you start damaging a small hero with blissbarbs for example), it becomes a bit more complicated afterwards. 
Personally, going from 12DP to 24DP is what caused me the most trouble.
On the other hand, once you reach 24 DP, you just ramp it up if you weren't tabled before. The 6 explosives, considering the number of attacks you throw, it's great. It goes up quickly afterwards. So 36 DP is not complicated.

Anyway, once that's said, getting into the mindset of going for 12 DP T1:

What will be able to impact T1 and generate DP with Euphoric Killers are 1/ units that have run & charge (no ****** sherlock?), 2/ units that go very fast without run & charge (that should be fine in Slaanesh), and 3/ that will require the minimum of resources (the +1 wound of the epitome might not necessarily be in range, even if 24" is comfortable!) So you're going to look for stuff that hits decently (via high rend/bm/D) by itself.

So, what are our units for such purpose?

-The seekers are great with their 14" move, 2d6 to run, run & charge, but just have zero damage: low A, no rend, D1. It's really not crazy. On the other hand, they are great for redirection, hindering enemy movement, etc... I was very skeptical when I read the warscroll, but now I think I'll just fit in at least a unit every time: 140 pts, which will just run accross the board on T1 and block potentially enemy moves and annoy the opponent (I did it against a STD where I blocked everything: Slaanesh Chosen and Khorne cavalry, it was quite funny. The idoneth ignored it a bit because it flies, but it blocked his 20 thralls for example)

-Demonettes will run at 6" auto, so 13" move, and charge at 8" average (7+1 banner), which is pretty comfortable (especially if you're in Godseeker). Demonettes throw buckets of attacks, so you compensate quality with quantity. Problem? Without +1 wound of the epitome, you wound on 4+, and it is frankly not the best 😕 that will require to crack a triumph (if you took the +1 wound), or a spellportal for example (but you'd likely be casting some other spell like slothful stupor in Godseeker or Pavane in Invaders :D). And then Daemonettes have rend 1. Without Invaders (and thus heros) and without Blissbarb seeker, it can be complicated.

-A bladebringer on Exalted chariot in Godseekers that will charge at 3d6: meh. You're a bit too dependent on the result of the charge (even if you have RRs in Godseekers). The scroll is fantastic: it allows you to deal with stuff that potentially hurts you a lot, like strike first (an idoneth that will strike first - eh Akhelian King? take your mws in your face in the charge phase), or stuff in heavy armor, but a bit counterproductive for me, because the mws are dealt in the charge phase, therefore blowing stuff up + preventing you from selecting a unit at 1" for Euphoric Killers in the combat phase. Then again, spending a hero at 260 pts on a screening unit that may not have a big save, is that really relevant? Meeeeh. I'd rather save the BB for later in the game.

-A Keeper in Godseekers that will charge to 3d6 with flight, or run 20" and pile in at 6". It's solid. You're pretty sure you'll be generating plenty of DP T1. But then again, do you want to spend 400 pts on a screening unit? Meeeeeh.

-Remain the Slickblade Seekers which offer a very good compromise: The seekers' speed (14" move, run at 6" auto & charge with rr if needed), 4A: since you're going to hit screens, you'll benefit from the A bonus in 2+/3+, and especially Rend 2 without any bonuses, the whole unit with a correct tankyness (4HPs, -1 to hit if you manage to get the 12 DP by activating first). For 200 pts. It's the best of all worlds imho.

3/ I haven't done 50 games, but even without playing Slickblade (and thus big T1 impact), I always had 12 DPs (Tier 1) either at the end of T1 (end of the battle round), or at the end of the first player turn of T2. 

Tier 2 is a bit more complicated. On the games where it went well, I got it T2 (end of the first player round or end of battle round), or end of battle round T3. Like I said before, the Tier 3 is pretty quick once you get the 24DP, really.

The summoning: I had to summon in 2 games, maybe 3? One where I burned everything because I had nothing left on the table to summon a Keeper around the Fane of Slaanesh and attempt a charge at 9" to succeed in my BT (which I did!). One where I summoned a viceleader I think because I was tabled, and I had 18 or 20 DP And the other I don't remember. A chariot maybe... But, yeah, summoning didn't convince me so far.

Which makes me think back on my GS: For the moment, I've always used Arch tempter (the one that asks you to give 6 times a temptation on a unit). It works pretty well: you send a weak unit (like seekers) on a weak thing, that will keep busy during the game, that won't get killed. Or you just ignore a unit, let it shoot at you for example, and give it temptation dice (but you risk killing it as it will take the d3 mws). Or you can find a tanky unit that will be able to soak your damage, soak the mws, and all that (like 30 chaos warrior with nurgle banner for example).

The games where I did not succeed this GS were games where I wiped the units I impacted. Which can happen quite often, actually. Or where I got tabled. 
So, considering the relative efficiency of the Slaanesh summoning, I wonder if I'll just take the one that asks not to summon at all. In the end, the DP bonuses are just good enough.

4/The Masque is great: Good assassin, T1 move blocking if the opponent plays first, intense thinking for the player when deploying (by not forgetting to explain to the opponent what the Masque does to avoid the gotcha!), potential DTL, potential trap, etc... And even if you don't tp him, she has run and charge and that's pretty much enough. The possibilities are just magnificent. For a very low cost.

Almost autoinclude. You can play without it, but having it in your list is still great. For now, I try to put it systematically.

5/ A little note on the chariots: it seems to me like a bit of a bad idea to set mws in the charge phase, since it reduces Euphoric Killers impact: you can quickly find yourself like an idiot with nothing at 1" at the beginning of the combat phase... Even if you can pile in and hit because you charged, if there is nothing at 1", there is no unit eligible for Euphoric Killers... but the saturation is correct and allows you to manage things that are boring for us (Strike first, big armor). A thing to keep in mind, imho.

So, according to my tryouts, in unit ranking, I'm leaning on:

*Autoinclude/very strong: Epitome, and then the Masque, because why not, right? Blissbarb archers, Slickblades, Lord of Pain 

*Strong: Keeper of Secrets (400 pts, it's expensive but he kills stuff. There are enough traits/artefacts to give As or improve your stats: Best of the best, Icon of Infinite Excess, pretenders traits, Hunter Supreme, Flaming weapon - apart from my game against a big Waaagh list, he always made his game, even won me the game almost solo. I've always played him with Sinistrous Hand, but I'm going to opt for Aegis from now on), Seekers (it hits zero, but the potential of nuisance is too funny), BB on Exalted chariot + Exalted Chariot (it still delivers a ton of attacks very well despite my note above), Sigvald (same, it allows to manage boring stuff: big armor + ward), Myrmidesh Painbringers by 10 for an anvil/screening (and models are great! ) or Chaos warriors in coalition for cheap screen compared to Myrmidesh. Spellportal: 12" range on very interesting spells, this is a nice bonus. Mesmerising Mirror for DP generation.

*I'm not convinced yet: Symbaresh Twinsouls: I haven't tried them enough for my taste. I find they have nice rules (-1A, ward to 5+ around enemies) that make them nice screens that hit decently, but it requires the galletian veteran battalion (I've always played them by 10), and their scroll seem very predictible to me (well, the opponent sees the thing coming from miles away, so if he has a shot, he just has to kill the thing knowing that it can die pretty fast after all). The minis are great. Demonettes + Viceleader: I put both together, because they go together. Demonettes are not bad in themselves, good mobility, they offer a very nice saturation, and can generate a lot of DP, but it's pure glasscanon, and it requires a bit too many resources to get something out of it (+1 wound per spell, quite a lot of CP: +1 hit if less than 24DP, auto run at 6, etc... So people will tell me that these are things we'll use anyway. Certainly.). The scroll is "well" written, in the sense that it's balanced, but it flies at the slightest breath so it requires playing 30 (and therefore 325 pts and not easy to fit in the viceleader's ww12). Or by 20, but you have to choose your target well... Blissbarb Seekers: Crazy mobility, -1 to save (very useful if you don't play Invaders), but a bit limited range that requires to expose them anyway. I need to test them more. Lord of Hubris: I haven't played him much to be honest, but he's one of the guys who can move up in my rankings after several tests. Playing Pretenders and casting Phantasmagoria for his "You First, I insist" ability; but it seems like a very phoned-in move to me, and therefore predictable... I don't know! Have any players managed to do that? But what I like best about him is his ability to fight upon death. Especially since there is no condition to not have fought before or anything. You hit, you kill stuff. You die afterwards, and you get to hit and kill stuff again (on units who are not too bad at killing stuff actually). It's an ability, so you don't even need to use CP, it's like free of charge, what's not to like?. I have to test it more. But it fits in a precise build with this in mind (Myrmidesh and/or Twinsouls).

*Garbage: Shardspeaker: A strong ability! (-1 save - on a 4+, of course! but the potential is strong! and we need it), a very good spell, a magnificent mini, for a ridiculous cost, but so bad ranges! 9" and 12"... Ah, forget it! how do you want to apply that in a game? Hellstriders: Better to take Seekers. If only their A and D bonus was linked to a successful charge or something... But now, it requires them to have tanked at least one turn... I don't really see the point... The same ones with whips seem nicer to me, but pfff, not very convinced either: better to kill stuff on the objectives 😛 

*Not tested: Glutos. I don't like the mini. From there on, it's settled, duh. Enrapturess. No opinion on it. Synessa/Dexcessa: Beautiful minis, but not very convinced... Synessa, her stick can't snipe GC I think? I'd test Dexcessa more than Synessa: Charge run/charge retreat, cumulative A bonus, -1 native hit, but no ward. Hiiic. Slaangor Fiendblood: Nice minis. Two activations potentially, and a d6" move under certain conditions (which should be able to be met if they assist or are assisted). The chariots other than the exalted and the BB on exalted. But I find them underneath, so I don't plan to test them anyway.

*Need tryouts, because the scroll looks pretty good: Shalaxi. I only read his scroll late, but it looks like it's a pretty good one. He's got some pretty crazy rules. And he's maybe better than a Keeper. Fiends: Not a fan of the minis. But their rules look great!  

One I tested, but can't rank yet, is Syllesske: He hits well, he's mobile, his spell is really great (no redeploy, no unleash hell, no rally, no immune battleshock, nothing... on a 18" unit, popopo). Except that it doesn't have a native ward, and that its Symbiosis ability requires a particular list construction (the range is big, too)... But he's good, that's for sure.

 

The book is really good. Good job GW! I'll definitely continue playing Invaders, but I want to try Godseekers as well. 

My "final" typical list will look like this:

Spoiler

Warlord Battalion with extra spell, Galletian Sharpshooters, Vanguard
The list can work with Godseekers and Invaders

Keeper General, flaming weapon and another spell (3d6 charge or no redeploy in Godseekers, Lash in Invaders), Best of the best + Icon in Invaders or Hunter Supreme + Girdle of the Realm racer in Godseekers
LoP (support)
The Masque (assassination)
Epitome (support)
Sigvald (vs high armor + ward)

10 chaos warriors for screening
2*11 Blissbarb Sharpshooters 
5 Seekers (for last battleline, hindering enemy movement, screening, soaking unleash hell)
5 Slickblades (for T1 DP generation) - Vanguard battalion

Spellportal (to counter the lack of range on many spells).

I'll try a Keeper + Shalaxi list too, but I have hopes for that list.

Edited May 1, 2023 by Alezya

[bonesaww666]

You should try out Hellflayers, their ability is procc'd at the start of the combat phase.

They could be a good Turn 2 DP generator.

I'm considering a unit of 3, with a BB on Hellflayer you could knock out quite a few mortal wounds...

Most screens are 10 model chaff, so blasting through them shouldn't be difficult and the Hellflayers ability will help defend them on the counter charge, combo with an all out defence and they may even get the chance to do it again!

 

Edited May 1, 2023 by bonesaww666

[bonesaww666]

Got me thinking of something like this...

I have been mucking about with all Chariot Lists, but they have difficulties...

This could be entertaining and really help to get two rounds of solid DP.

 

 - Army Faction: Hedonites of Slaanesh

  - Army Type: Godseekers

  - Grand Strategy: Glutton for Depravity

  - Triumph: Inspired

LEADERS

Bladebringer, Herald on Exalted Chariot (260)*

  - Artefacts of Power: Girdle of the Realm-racer

  - Spells: Paths of the Dark Prince

Bladebringer, Herald on Hellflayer (240)*

  - General

  - Command Traits: Speed-chaser

  - Artefacts of Power: Threnody Voicebox

  - Spells: Paths of the Dark Prince

Contorted Epitome (190)*

  - Spells: Slothful Stupor

BATTLELINE

Hellflayer (390)

Hellflayer (130)

Hellflayer (130)*

OTHER

Seeker Chariot (110)

Seeker Chariot (110)

Seeker Chariot (110)

Slickblade Seekers (200)

ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS

1 x Ravenak's Gnashing Jaws (70)

1 x Mesmerising Mirror (60)

CORE BATTALIONS

*Warlord

TOTAL POINTS: 2000/2000

Slickblades hit Turn 1, followed by the Hellflayer unit after the fact.

The Mirror helps with extra DP and Ravenecks is there to combo with Slothful for a decent 1-2 spell combo, which should help me get my Paths spell off on my Exalted Chariot.

Edited May 1, 2023 by bonesaww666

[MothmanDraws]

If im honest i actually think the masques true value is t1 euphoric killers vs good players, while slickblades are good a good player will set themselves up so that slickblades get a poor initial euphoric target lile going into either a true brick wall or a very low wound chaff. Thr masque can just go turn 1 into a backline archer unit and generate enough depravity and have a way easier time getting into good ek targets vs thr seekers

8 hours ago, Alezya said:

The Masque is great: Good assassin, T1 move blocking if the opponent plays first, intense thinking for the player when deploying

  Reveal hidden contents

Warlord Battalion with extra spell, Galletian Sharpshooters, Vanguard
The list can work with Godseekers and Invaders

Keeper General, flaming weapon and another spell (3d6 charge or no redeploy in Godseekers, Lash in Invaders), Best of the best + Icon in Invaders or Hunter Supreme + Girdle of the Realm racer in Godseekers
LoP (support)
The Masque (assassination)
Epitome (support)
Sigvald (vs high armor + ward)

10 chaos warriors for screening
2*11 Blissbarb Sharpshooters 
5 Seekers (for last battleline, hindering enemy movement, screening, soaking unleash hell)
5 Slickblades (for T1 DP generation) - Vanguard battalion

Spellportal (to counter the lack of range on many spells).

[Cambyses]

Hey all, anyone have much experience into the new Seraphon tome? Just had a super rough game into them and was wondering if anyone has managed to unpick the matchup.

 

Not sure exactly what the combination of traits are, but in my game the entire Seraphon army had -1 dmg and +1 hit / +1 wound on the charge passively. This both seriously blunts our alpha strike (archers and slickblades do ok still but most other units bounce off hard), and basically totally bypasses the first tier of Depravity bonuses such that the enemy crack back loses no effectiveness. Their superior ranged and magic presence is expected, but means that I can't afford to sit back and leverage my own ranged presence. Granted I only had 22 archers and 5 mounted archers, but considering their dino guns blow up archer units with ease I'm not sure more archers is the right answer. All in all it seemed like I was trading down for the entire game no matter where I select the engagement.

 

Any suggestions or tips are appreciated!

[Alezya]

Did you see that the Soulfeaster Keeper of Secrets (FW model, appearing in the App) could be summoned for 12 DP?  

Edited May 9, 2023 by Alezya

[KrispyXIV]

So uh, I'm not crazy right?  RIP Invaders?

Not being able to use figureheads more than once or double up on Command Traits - in addition to no unique - what is the point exactly?

Edited May 10, 2023 by KrispyXIV

[Lucentia]

I was worried that would happen, the wording on the Invaders traits was too loose and confusing, so they tightened it up to the point of making it extremely boring.  Mostly it just further cements Pretenders as the only competitive subfaction pick, but I will miss the Invaders cheer squad of insult-throwing backup heroes.

I guess you can still run a fighty general with Hurler, and a sidekick hero who HAs into Hurler so the general can pick up Best of the Best, -2 to saves is still pretty good.  And the Icon remains a solid artefact.  But, yes, a disappointing change to an already middling subfaction, whilst rules like Murderlust went wholly untouched.

But, hey, I've seen worse Slaanesh faqs in my time!

[Alezya]

3 hours ago, KrispyXIV said:

So uh, I'm not crazy right?  RIP Invaders?

Not being able to use figureheads more than once or double up on Command Traits - in addition to no unique - what is the point exactly?

Being a big fan of Invaders, the Unique restriction is not that annoying in itself: Couldn't use it anyway as written here in the early pages of the thread, although we could've argued that it wasn't specified clearly. Now it is. 
Still, myself I played my games with the Unique restrictions already, and it didn't impact me that much.

The limitation to one Hurler debuff is really annoying though. Imho, it was one of the biggest perks of invaders (even though Icon of Excess and Best of the best are cool, this trait really shines when combined with a few heroes). And it has its downsides cause you still had to commit, right?
The changes are understandable, but their consequences and what it will cause: less so. For exemple, the AoS worlds lists are all exclusively playing Pretenders already... Except one Godseeker.

Now, same as @Lucentia said: It makes Pretenders an autopick, because... well it's just silly.
Limiting choices by unnecessary changes is annoying.

I'll still continue playing Invaders though: -1 save is still a useful debuff. +1A boardwide is still a good artefact!

Hellflayers are quite interesting now!

[Jaskier]

I guess good thing I got all that practice in with Pretenders already 😅 Interesting they didn't bother touching Synessa's weapon despite it being the thing most in need of an errata...

[Lucentia]

What needs addressing about Synessa's weapon, am I missing something?  Isn't it just a missile weapon with a non-standard profile, like a terrorgheist scream or bloodwrack medusa stare?

[Poryague]

Invaders should have been fixed in a way to work on unique heroes. Other books with subfactions that offered unique heroic actions didn't stop unique  heroes from using them. If they fixed it to work with uniques while limiting it to one use. It could of still been  a useful subfaction.

[Ladrona]

I'm trying to think of how to get the most out of Phantasmagoria since the FAQ. Obviously, if it's your turn you can use it as before, but it's way worse now on your opponent's turn, right? You can retreat your guys after your opponent attacks if you want to move and charge somewhere else, I suppose, though you may have to forfeit your attacks or prioritize activating a unit you wouldn't otherwise. Good for getting around screens, maybe?

 

[Jaskier]

22 hours ago, Lucentia said:

What needs addressing about Synessa's weapon, am I missing something?  Isn't it just a missile weapon with a non-standard profile, like a terrorgheist scream or bloodwrack medusa stare?

It's helpful you mention those two because they offer the easiest answer as to why Synessa's ability doesn't work as intended. Both the Death Shriek and Bloodwrack Stare refer you to the target unit. Synessa's staff does not, meaning you don't actually have a set target for it. Basically, it breaks the sequencing and allows for Synessa's staff to do things like bypass the Galletian Champion no-shooting rule (which prevents GCs from being chosen as targets) and, worst of all, shoot something up to 18" away using Unleash Hell - as you aren't targeting the unit you would otherwise normally be forced to, rather you are just picking a unit in range and resolving the ability.

Other abilities like it all work properly because they refer you to the target unit so the sequencing still functions properly, including things like Stormdrake Guard and Dracoth breaths, but Synessa's is the odd one out and unfortunately they still have yet to fix it.

To be super technical, and this is the agreed upon interpretation RAW - and thus why it needs an Errata regardless of if anyone will even dare to play it that way; to start the attack sequence at all for any missile weapon, you declare a target then you resolve the attacks or, in such cases like Dracoths, the ability. This is how every shooting attack including the missile-ability ones like the Death Shriek work. The problem herein lies in the fact you don't need to resolve Synessa's ability against that initially chosen target, rather you just pick a unit in range and resolve the effects against them. The technicality here is that though you have picked an initial target, the Staff ability does not require you to resolve the effects against that initial target, just any unit within range. This also rather hilariously means that while it can be used to bypass the GC no shooting rule, it doesn't work on them if a GC is the only unit within range and the Battleline unit that is protecting them is just outside Synessa's range, as the GC can't be chosen as the initial target. 

It's a very literally broken rule. There's a lot of good discussion on the subject in the Hedonite section of the AoS Coach discord if you want some better explanations of it (I'm on my phone or I'd be more elaborate.) 

It should be noted that clearly her ability is likely intended to work the same way others like it do, and the easiest way to fix the rule is to simply replace the second sentence with "Instead, your opponent must roll a dice for the target unit." That's the easiest way to prevent stupidity like resolving an Unleash Hell on some random Wight King chilling 18" away as his friendly Blood Knights charge Synessa somewhere else on the board. Suffice to say, you should not play it this way 😅

Edited May 12, 2023 by Jaskier

[Sonnenspeer]

Short question on Blissbarb Archers, can they ever wound on 2+?

I don't think so as they wound on 4+ and the homunculus only adds +1 to wound and does not change the wound character to 3+.

Correct?

[KrispyXIV]

Just now, Sonnenspeer said:

Short question on Blissbarb Archers, can they ever wound on 2+?

I don't think so as they wound on 4+ and the homunculus only adds +1 to wound and does not change the wound character to 3+.

Correct?

Accurate.  They're essentially a 3+ 3+ shooting unit that is artificially prevented from buffing to better than 2+ 3+.

[5kaven5lave]

Right, I’m building my 6 Slaangors today, and so help me God I’m going to try and make them work and then inevitably give up when I finally accept that they’re terrible. 

[MothmanDraws]

5 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Right, I’m building my 6 Slaangors today, and so help me God I’m going to try and make them work and then inevitably give up when I finally accept that they’re terrible. 

They wont be terrible, I think they get better the bigger the brick and into certain match ups, they benefit from a lord of hubris for when they hit tougher enemies 

[Alezya]

On 5/7/2023 at 10:57 AM, Cambyses said:

Hey all, anyone have much experience into the new Seraphon tome? Just had a super rough game into them and was wondering if anyone has managed to unpick the matchup.

Not sure exactly what the combination of traits are, but in my game the entire Seraphon army had -1 dmg and +1 hit / +1 wound on the charge passively. This both seriously blunts our alpha strike (archers and slickblades do ok still but most other units bounce off hard), and basically totally bypasses the first tier of Depravity bonuses such that the enemy crack back loses no effectiveness. Their superior ranged and magic presence is expected, but means that I can't afford to sit back and leverage my own ranged presence. Granted I only had 22 archers and 5 mounted archers, but considering their dino guns blow up archer units with ease I'm not sure more archers is the right answer. All in all it seemed like I was trading down for the entire game no matter where I select the engagement.

Any suggestions or tips are appreciated!

I played vs them yesterday.
The Seraphon book (or Kroak list) seems just stupid. Period.

We played on Position over Power, and going first + winning all initiative rolls until T5 (I just lost the last roll when I was already tabled: in T5 the idea was to go first and score 1 pt for holding 1 lol) won me the game because I was able to score enough points during the first 3 turns (hold 1-2-more + 1 for GC on flank objective + BT each turn), but otherwise it was a quite tough game...

He wanted to test some stuff, so went with a funky list: Kroak, 2 slanns (general with what gves 2 pts instead of 1 each time he casts some stuff), astrolith bearer, starpriest (or whatever his name is), oracle on troglodon (monster stuff), 2*5 saurus, 10 skinks.
Literally no screens at all, but crazy "firepower" (14 casts a turn or something like this?).

I was playing
Invaders
KoS General, Best of the best, Icon, Flaming Weapon + Lash, Aegis
Shalaxi Lash + Pavane, Aegis
Epitome Frenzy + Pavane
Masque
5 Seekers
2*20 Demonettes
5 Slickblades

Basically the game consisted in me removing my models every time he was casting some stuff (MW around objectives, Celestial deliverance or IDK what's the name of Kroak's spell, aoe MWs around the troglodon,...), denying my ward saves, cancelling my rend, +1 to cast -1 to deny (I still could deny some stuff because he rolled very bad, even though he got zero miscasts) and other stuff. I didn't even try to memorize all the buffs and debuffs he put during the game lol. 
He managed to roll more than my bravery 3 times (2 times on the KoS, 1 time on a pack of demonettes -B10 right?) making me fight last when it mattered the most. Happens.

I managed to kill some stuff (troglodon, all the units), even though I could've dealt more damage and made the game easier for myself if I played better: Basically I managed to bring Shalaxi into cc in T2: He has 5 saurus screening Kroak, and there's a space where I can get the Slann + Starpriest with a good charge roll, thanks to the 3" range of Soulpiercer and Claws.
The starpriest cancels my wards (so I want to target him - it's the only way to tank his mw ouput), and slann was cancelling my rend and some other stuff (wanted to target him too), I went a bit greedy and chose to separate my attacks (something I never do actually). Rolled a good charge roll, went into everyone (but put me outside of the 2nd pile in ability from the KoS), used the Icon, separated my attacks, rolled bad on dmg dice (happens), Slann and starpriest were both alive with 1 HP thanks to saurus's bodyguard rule, but killed them all. Kinda helped cause I managed to get 11 DP out of them both when they hit me back, but still.
I should've impacted the saurus, kill them with my first pile in, and then activate a 2nd time with the Excess of Violence one use only to insta kill Kroak.
Or I should've just overkilled the starpriest, IDK.

In T4, I have 8 demonettes and Epitome on his objective, he has Kroak + Slann + astrolith bearer + other hero, I charged with my demonettes and he rolled 11 on the strike last stuff. I wondered why I charged, it was not making any sense... I lost the objective, and lost 2 VP stupidly.

If my opponent had a single double turn, it would've gone veeery bad for me. The seraphon book is frustrating, tbh.
Now he'll fix his list (not enough bodies/screening) and put more bodies in exchange of 1 slann (was a bit too much to put 2).
The DP mechanic is just useless if he goes full MW. And the time it takes you to go up to 36 you're already dead

I felt like my first many tries against Malenia in ER

 

Edited May 14, 2023 by Alezya