Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors

[Colonic]

Personally if I was doing that I'd be a bit "Meta be damned" and just take a variety of sculpts, starting with the ones I like most. I'd hate to buy 12 Dracothian guard and them all be identical, winning or not. 

[Acid_Nine]

1 hour ago, Colonic said:

Personally if I was doing that I'd be a bit "Meta be damned" and just take a variety of sculpts, starting with the ones I like most. I'd hate to buy 12 Dracothian guard and them all be identical, winning or not. 

well, I do plan on having them all be magnetized or at least pinned, so I could change out the arms where I can.

Here is a sample list that is subject to change! AlsoI need a good way to copy and paste lists
 

Spoiler

Choose a Grand Alliance
Choose Allegiance & Mortal Realm
 
 
Choose Grand Strategy
Add Units
Leaders: 3/6
Battlelines: 3/3
Reinforced Units: 1/4
Additional Enhancements: 0/1

Leaders
Krondys, Son of Dracothion-warlord
Lord-Celestant on Dracoth-warlord
Knight-Azyros-warlord



Units
Dracothian Guard Fulminators x2-Hunters
Dracothian Guard Concussors-Hunters
Dracothian Guard Desolators-Hunters

Stormstrike Chariot- warlord
 

Battalion:
warlord:

Hunters of the Heartlands

 

[Thugmullet]

On 3/18/2022 at 7:37 AM, Acid_Nine said:

In all honesty, I just want to run an army of dragons or close to dragons. I was very dissapointed by the lumineth in this regaurd, so I am thinking of just doing storm casts. Meta chasing will always be a thing, And I am more looking at lists surrounding the two true dragons than anything else (while still remaining a threat)

100% personnel aesthetic opinion only here.

From what iv seen a unit of 2 or 4 dragons as part of a bigger army look fantastic on the table. I run a Cities list with a unit of 2 (for cities there a great combo of wounds/save/mobility _good harrassers) and they look awsome. I can't quit put my finger on it, but when iv seen a full army of dragons on table I think they look awful. Just this pile wings and ****** popping out everywhere.

And again, never played against or with a full dragon list but oh wow, it looks like more work getting stuff done than a table full of Sylvaneth trees.

Nothing to do with how they play. Just an opinion on how they look.

[Thugmullet]

On 3/18/2022 at 7:37 AM, Acid_Nine said:

In all honesty, I just want to run an army of dragons or close to dragons. I was very dissapointed by the lumineth in this regaurd, so I am thinking of just doing storm casts. Meta chasing will always be a thing, And I am more looking at lists surrounding the two true dragons than anything else (while still remaining a threat)

Sorry. Double post.

Would a mod mind removing.

Edited March 19, 2022 by Thugmullet

[Mattrulesok]

23 hours ago, Colonic said:

Personally if I was doing that I'd be a bit "Meta be damned" and just take a variety of sculpts, starting with the ones I like most. I'd hate to buy 12 Dracothian guard and them all be identical, winning or not. 

I'm building a 10 dracothian guard list ATM and I love the look but I also like how stilted and uniform they look, I personally like my stormcast to have a uniform, unthinking and unfeeling look to them, it's why I'm less interested in vanguard SCE

Edited March 19, 2022 by Mattrulesok

[Acid_Nine]

10 hours ago, Thugmullet said:

100% personnel aesthetic opinion only here.

From what iv seen a unit of 2 or 4 dragons as part of a bigger army look fantastic on the table. I run a Cities list with a unit of 2 (for cities there a great combo of wounds/save/mobility _good harrassers) and they look awsome. I can't quit put my finger on it, but when iv seen a full army of dragons on table I think they look awful. Just this pile wings and ****** popping out everywhere.

And again, never played against or with a full dragon list but oh wow, it looks like more work getting stuff done than a table full of Sylvaneth trees.

Nothing to do with how they play. Just an opinion on how they look.

I mean I get it, but after having an army of 20 eels I am used to the uniform look. they get put together only one way essentially. Still, I get your point...

but come on, where else can I get a full army of dragons?!

Edited March 19, 2022 by Acid_Nine

[Fuxxx]

Need a short opinion on Praetors - If I only got one Praetor with 1 wound left and my enemy hits my Hero for let's say 5 damage. Do I a) count the wounds (5), allocate them to my Hero and then do 5 Praetor rolls, since they are a Ward save of sorts and if let's say I roll 5 3-4 they would just be wasted on the Praetor

or

b) roll all wound rolls one after another until the praetor is dead and then just allocate the remainder of the wounds to the hero.?

[Mattrulesok]

6 hours ago, Fuxxx said:

Need a short opinion on Praetors - If I only got one Praetor with 1 wound left and my enemy hits my Hero for let's say 5 damage. Do I a) count the wounds (5), allocate them to my Hero and then do 5 Praetor rolls, since they are a Ward save of sorts and if let's say I roll 5 3-4 they would just be wasted on the Praetor

or

b) roll all wound rolls one after another until the praetor is dead and then just allocate the remainder of the wounds to the hero.?

B, wounds are allocated one at a time

[Fuxxx]

58 minutes ago, Mattrulesok said:

B, wounds are allocated one at a time

Thanks mate. Sounds like a pain in some instances I'm glad I just had one mortal wound coming my way that did exactly kill the Praetor so we didn't really have to dabble in that question yesterday. Just so I can more confidently look that up next time, where is this procedure mentioned? 

Btw I actually won for a time. Bonereapers where a nice opponent, elite as well, so the mortal wounds really stuck and not having killed all good units by shooting before the end of round 2 was a nice change for once...

[Mattrulesok]

Section 14 - wounds.

Yiu can still combine rolls for expedience sake you just don't want to be rolling so many that the unit is being wiped because then the order in which you rolled the different results matters.

 

Good job on the win though, share your list with us.

 

 

[Fuxxx]

34 minutes ago, Mattrulesok said:

Section 14 - wounds.

Yiu can still combine rolls for expedience sake you just don't want to be rolling so many that the unit is being wiped because then the order in which you rolled the different results matters.

 

Good job on the win though, share your list with us.

 

 

Ah I somehow read that differently. I still need a lot of routine, still forgetting a lot of stuff and getting stuff wrong 🙄And how is it with starting the game? My opponent said that because the priority for the first player to finish is just behind the article on what happens on a draw, you only get the advantage if you roll a draw first round. Since everyone on the internet is always all over the one-drop stuff, I was wondering if that was correct. Otherwise there wouldn't be much use in those batallions...

1645 Points (it's what my opponent had painted)

Celestial Warbringers (I always forget their rule...)

Lord Arcanum on Dracoline with Drakescale Armour, Starfall (sadly rolled bad, always only affected heroes...), Scintilating Trail

Lord-Imperatant with Arcane Tome, Shock and Awe (wow forgot that the whole game too!)

Lord-Castellant

5 Liberators

5 Liberators

3 Annihilators with big hammers (killed a monster and a hero on the charge, were put down fast but I just love them)

3 Annihilators 

3 Praetors (for the Imperatant)

3 Evocators on Dracolines

Holy Command: Call for Aid

 

My Opponent had

2x10 Morteks

Volkmortian

Guy on a bone Chair

Boneshaper

Liege-Cavalos (yeah we realized about the 4 heroes later), with -3 Sword as general

2 Morgast (the faster ones. I found them quite menacing)

5 Cavalry guys

3 Necropolis Stalkers

1 Big Monster

think that was it. I was quite impressed with the Morteks, think they were prettty good at their job with their 2 Attacks, small bases and -1. 

No substantial pictures but the last two fights. The Castellant charged the morteks so they wouldn't come to me and my objective.

The cavalos charged the annihilators. Better to do mortals on the charge than to receive them my Evocators in the back would charge the turn after and just manage to kill the Cavalos with their lightning Arcs.

Edited March 20, 2022 by Fuxxx

[Mattrulesok]

So for deciding who starts core rules have a roll off but the generals handbook 2021 gives priority to the person who drops first. You don't have to follow the GHB but it's the standard for matched play/tournaments.

Looks like a fun list, don't feel too bad about forgetting shock and awe, it was a standard army rule in the last book and we all forgot it constantly. AoS reminders is good to use when you're first playing a team or simply make your own cheat sheet. It all locks in your brain eventually though just keep at it.

 

[Fuxxx]

27 minutes ago, Mattrulesok said:

So for deciding who starts core rules have a roll off but the generals handbook 2021 gives priority to the person who drops first. You don't have to follow the GHB but it's the standard for matched play/tournaments.

Looks like a fun list, don't feel too bad about forgetting shock and awe, it was a standard army rule in the last book and we all forgot it constantly. AoS reminders is good to use when you're first playing a team or simply make your own cheat sheet. It all locks in your brain eventually though just keep at it.

 

Ah, we were searching in the core rules part of the ghb makes sense, thanks

Yeah the last edition keeps creeping in my head fairly often regarding the core rules. My opponent had his second game this edition and mine was like the 6th... Shock and awe would only have kicked in twice either way. The celestial warbeingers I remembered turn 4 which helped.

it was a fun game. An honest scrap for once, being shot by big yellers and overlords before I could reach them. Big yellers were infuriating. - to charge almost always, a rogue Idol in hiding and the big bird with "move in the herophase once" meant two monsters in my face turn one, killing almost 800 Points of stuff turn one, then came my annihilators without much support. Was a funny list but not fun to play against

[Mikelomba]

hello brothers i realy would like to know what ideas of very competitive list we can make without using stormdrake guards.

i have fulminators x6 and anihilators.

i was thinkin something like:

knight draconis 

relictor 

liberator 

liberator 

6x vanguard snipers 

2 fulmis 

2 fulmis 

2 fulmis 

or list 2:

imperitant 

relictor 

vindicators 

vindicators 

3 anihilators meteoric 

3 anihilators meteoric 

6 vanguard sniper 

2 fulmis 

2fulmis.

thx for help.

Edited March 20, 2022 by Mikelomba
bad writing

[The World Tree]

Using fulminators and longstrikes is obviously competitive.

It is also deeply boring.

[feadair]

Speaking of Fulminators and Longstrikes, this list came third (4-1) in a 20 player tournament in NZ yesterday:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hallowed Knights (Stormkeep)
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Inspired
LEADERS
Gardus Steel Soul (150)*
Lord-Relictor (145)*
- General
- Command Trait: High Priest
- Artefact: Mirrorshield
- Prayer: Translocation
Knight-Incantor (125)*
- Spell: Celestial Blades
UNITS
6 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (480)**
2 x Dracothian Guard Fulminators (230)**
2 x Dracothian Guard Fulminators (230)**
5 x Vindictors (130)*
5 x Vindictors (130)*
5 x Vindictors (130)*
5 x Vindictors (130)*
3 x Aetherwings (65)*
CORE BATTALIONS
*Battle Regiment
**Hunters of the Heartlands

TOTAL: 1945/2000 

Edited March 21, 2022 by feadair

[Trickflo]

I've been playing cities of Sigmar for a few years now and I've built up a fairly large stormcast collection. Decided to actually make a few stormcast lists and I was just wondering which units are bad, I'm not trying to make tournament lists or anything but I'd rather avoid buying bad units.

[Mikelomba]

how superior would you say are 6 vanguards with longs vs 15 judicators.. 120 more points judis, but are battleline 18 more wounds and 9 more bodies on objectives.

[Fuxxx]

3 hours ago, Trickflo said:

I've been playing cities of Sigmar for a few years now and I've built up a fairly large stormcast collection. Decided to actually make a few stormcast lists and I was just wondering which units are bad, I'm not trying to make tournament lists or anything but I'd rather avoid buying bad units.

Reaaally bad I don't know about. I think about 1/3 of our heroes don't really serve a purpose. Other than that... Sequitors are even ok I deem but others do their job better. Haven't played prosecutors yet but some people seem to like them. I think the castigators are actually not that trash. If you take six you get 12 wounds opposed to 10 for Judicators. They're not core and have 6 inches less range. The attacks makes them swingy but comes out at pretty much the same. No special bow, but let's be honest everyone has theirs on the prime because that was better last edition. Deadly wounds opposed to +1 hit or -2 rend in total. Might be worth it in some cases. They're objectively worse but I'd argue even they aren't utter trash.

[Trickflo]

Ty, follow up question are there any sort of must haves rn my battleline options are pretty sparse I've got 10 vindictors 5 libs and 5 sequitors just glancing at the warscrolls vindictors seem easily better then the other 2 but I've only played one game as stormcast so far so not sure if I'm missing some synergy with the other options.

Edited March 22, 2022 by Trickflo
Typo

[lare2]

1 hour ago, Trickflo said:

Ty, follow up question are there any sort of must haves rn my battleline options are pretty sparse I've got 10 vindictors 5 libs and 5 sequitors just glancing at the warscrolls vindictors seem easily better then the other 2 but I've only played one game as stormcast so far so not sure if I'm missing some synergy with the other options.

If you're running them as 5, go libs. If you're running a block of 10 or above, go vindictors. If you wanna be super cool, then run sequitors at any amount. 

Edited March 22, 2022 by lare2

[Dogmantra]

2 hours ago, Trickflo said:

Ty, follow up question are there any sort of must haves rn my battleline options are pretty sparse I've got 10 vindictors 5 libs and 5 sequitors just glancing at the warscrolls vindictors seem easily better then the other 2 but I've only played one game as stormcast so far so not sure if I'm missing some synergy with the other options.

If you're running Sequitors, imo a block of 10 is the way to go. That gets you 5 grandhammers which you put in the frontline and then 5 rubbish ones, and they actually hit fairly hard with a 5+ ward. Liberators or Vindictors is mostly down to personal preference, although mostly I'd agree with lare2 that Liberators work best in 5s and Vindictors in 10s or even 15s. With your current collection I'd go 10 vindictors in a block, 5 libs, and 5 sequitors as your battleline. The Sequitors won't be the best but they'll still be decent, and a 5+ ward during the combat phase is nothing to sniff at.

In terms of "must haves" I don't think there's any unit that's completely mandatory, as in it'll add such a huge swing to your chance of winning. There are definitely units that I think are very good and well worth looking at which aren't necessarily part of a single strategy:

• Lord-Relictor, not only does he get you access to a prayer from the prayer scripture with +1 to the roll (usually translocation which gives you some great mobility, but the other two are solid prayers also), but his two warscroll prayers are great too.
• Knight-Incantor, probably the best foot wizard in SCE, and for some reason the cheapest? An auto-unbind once a game can ruin the day of high-magic opponents.

The downside of these two above is that they're both a bit tricky to find the models for in isolation because they were never sold just as a single box. The upside is that no one who doesn't play Stormcast can keep track of all the heroes so you can totally use a Knight-Arcanum as a Knight-Incantor, and a Knight-Relictor as a Lord-Relictor and most people won't even know the difference (and those who do will usually be fine with it)

 

[CommissarRotke]

2 minutes ago, Dogmantra said:

The downside of these two above is that they're both a bit tricky to find the models for in isolation because they were never sold just as a single box. The upside is that no one who doesn't play Stormcast can keep track of all the heroes so you can totally use a Knight-Arcanum as a Knight-Incantor, and a Knight-Relictor as a Lord-Relictor and most people won't even know the difference (and those who do will usually be fine with it)

 

if you can still find it, the OLD "start AOS" magazine comes with a Knight Incantor for 8 bucks. Otherwise ebay is still flush with singles of KI from Soul Wars. 

I do think we came to a consensus in this thread itself that Knight Relictor is the easiest proxy for Lord

[readercolin]

4 hours ago, Mikelomba said:

how superior would you say are 6 vanguards with longs vs 15 judicators.. 120 more points judis, but are battleline 18 more wounds and 9 more bodies on objectives.

So there are several things worth noting in the longstrikes vs judicators discussion.

First, damage.  Damage wise, 15 judicators does slightly more than 6 raptors to a 4+ save, and slightly less to a 2+ or 3+.  How much is the difference?  15 judicators do 16.67 damage to a 6+ save, and 8.22 to a 2+, while 6 longstrikes do 14 to a 6+ save and 9 to a 2+.  There are some plusses and minuses to each, with rend -2 vs rend -1, and damage 2 vs damage 1.  Go up against gotrek, or against thunder lizards, or etherial units, and judicators are better.  Against chaff units, judicators are better.  Against bricks like Archaeon or Maw Krusha's, longstrikes are likely better.

Next up, range.  30" range is a lot farther than 24" range.  30" is going to outrange most other ranged units (with the exception of sentinels), and 30" range is also enough to shoot something deployed on the line turn 1 with a screen in front of them, while 24" requires the judicators to be on the line (this is due to deployment distance being 22" on many battleplans).  This makes it easier for longstrikes to use thunderbolt volley turn 1, or to sit outside range of shorter range shooters and still kill them.

Third, footprint.  6 longstrikes are a lot easier to place on the board than 15 judicators.  Whether this is coming down from scions, or a translocate, it is easier to put the longstrikes down and screen them than it is judicators.  Going with this, if you screen it is easier to unleash hell with all 6 longstrikes than with 15 judicators due to it requiring the model to be within 6", not the unit.

Fourth, wounds and bodies.  Judicators are 30 wounds on a 4+ save vs 12 wounds on a 4+ save.  This makes judicators a lot more resilient to opposing shooting, and if bodies are removed then judicators lose a lot less output than raptors do.  Also relevant here, you can rally back judicators a lot easier (because there are more there) than longstrikes, which continues to make them more resilient.

Fifth, price.  2 boxes of raptors gets you the full squad, and that is $84.  Judicators come in boxes of 10, and are $65 per box, which means that you are shelling out $130 to get a squad of 15, and then you have 5 judicators left.  Yes, you can get them second hand as well, but between the cost of the models and the fact that you have to paint 6 raptors vs 15 judicators, it is easier for most people to drop the raptors down than the judicators.

Overall, for me the reason to go longstrikes was reasons 2 and 3.  You can relatively easily use longstrikes even without a priest in your list, though obviously translocate makes things better.  You can more easily protect longstrikes vs melee threats, though judicators are better vs other shooting threats.  However, with the current meta being more shooting focused, and raptors now giving up VP's if your opponent can get to them, I would lean a little bit more towards the judicators now, but only if you are looking for a squad to buy, or you already have both units.  If you already own 1 unit but not the other, I'm not seeing a particularly compelling reason to go out and drop a ton more cash to get the unit you are missing.

[Mattrulesok]

5 hours ago, Fuxxx said:

Reaaally bad I don't know about. I think about 1/3 of our heroes don't really serve a purpose. Other than that... Sequitors are even ok I deem but others do their job better. Haven't played prosecutors yet but some people seem to like them. I think the castigators are actually not that trash. If you take six you get 12 wounds opposed to 10 for Judicators. They're not core and have 6 inches less range. The attacks makes them swingy but comes out at pretty much the same. No special bow, but let's be honest everyone has theirs on the prime because that was better last edition. Deadly wounds opposed to +1 hit or -2 rend in total. Might be worth it in some cases. They're objectively worse but I'd argue even they aren't utter trash.

Castigators are definitely still pretty good and have a place as a solid screening/shooting objective grabber. I ran them at a tournament recently and they definitely earned their spot