AoS 3 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[The_Dudemeister]

Reikenor 145

Kurdoss 160

Black Coach 200

All got exactly 20pts cheaper

[Leemer]

8 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

He weirdly doesn't seem to get the ward, but I suppose in Nighthaunt he will be the only target for both Mystic Shield and All-Out Defense, so I guess he'll be at a 2+ ignore rend -1, 4+ ward against mortals by default.

Couldn't he also do the Hexwraith bodyguard as a general in Emerald Host?? Potentially 20-30 more wounds before he even brackets

 

EDIT: nevermind, he doesnt benefit from allegiance abilities unfortunately

EDIT2: maybe it's legal, bit unclear

Edited December 21, 2021 by Leemer

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

2 minutes ago, Leemer said:

Couldn't he also do the Hexwraith bodyguard as a general in Emerald Host?? Potentially 20-30 more wounds before he even brackets

He also gets to benefit from all those healing spells in the Nighthaunt lore. Should make him pretty resilient.

[Equinox]

I can now include him in my Nighthaunt army just like any other Nighthaunt unit, correct?  He doesn't go up against the allies limits or anything of the sorts.  

It took GW long enough to make this change, but I am glad to see it finally happen.

[lare2]

16 minutes ago, Equinox said:

I can now include him in my Nighthaunt army just like any other Nighthaunt unit, correct?  He doesn't go up against the allies limits or anything of the sorts.  

It took GW long enough to make this change, but I am glad to see it finally happen.

Yep, just start putting him in. He doesn't count as an ally of anything like that. 

[Sception]

of course, he also doesn't count as a nighthaunt, which limits synergies.  Eg, he can heal himself with the lifestealer spell since he's the caster, but cannot be healed with soul tether because he's not a 'nighthaunt hero'.

[frostfire]

Nagash rerolling hits and wounds would be pretty badass.

[LordPrometheus]

I'm super happy about the change to Nagash. I immediately thought up an Emerald Host list to abuse his model return, but then I realized he gets no allegiance abilities and was sad XD

 

 It was always very strange that Nagash couldn't lead his own ghost army. It made no sense lore wise. Glad they finally made this change so I can brew some NH lists. He's the hammer that we were lacking.

Edited December 21, 2021 by LordPrometheus

[Sception]

Yeah, absolutely, I love that he's available to all death armies, he always should have been.  I do think they over-nerfed him slightly and 955 is a difficult points cost to justify... but whatever, that can always be fixed later.

[EnixLHQ]

He might be the hammer we were missing, but he'll also be the BIGGEST EFFING THING ON THE TABLE and will summarily be selected for hard deletion.

Don't neglect your daggers. I'd argue that by including him, your standard rank-and-file death dealers will be all the more effective with less pressure on them.

[lare2]

Been trying to build some lists with big daddy in them. He is expensive!

[LordPrometheus]

18 minutes ago, EnixLHQ said:

He might be the hammer we were missing, but he'll also be the BIGGEST EFFING THING ON THE TABLE and will summarily be selected for hard deletion.

Don't neglect your daggers. I'd argue that by including him, your standard rank-and-file death dealers will be all the more effective with less pressure on them.

 I agree, but the good news is, you can use Mystic Shield and AoD on him to negate rend, even in Nighthaunt!

[darkdaysdawn]

46 minutes ago, Sception said:

955 is a difficult points cost to justify... 

955?  Did that change?  I believe it's 970.  If it did change, I could sure use those 15 points...

[dmorley21]

3 hours ago, Leemer said:

Couldn't he also do the Hexwraith bodyguard as a general in Emerald Host?? Potentially 20-30 more wounds before he even brackets

 

EDIT: nevermind, he doesnt benefit from allegiance abilities unfortunately

1 hour ago, LordPrometheus said:

I'm super happy about the change to Nagash. I immediately thought up an Emerald Host list to abuse his model return, but then I realized he gets no allegiance abilities and was sad XD

This was my thinking... but it will need an FAQ. A few TOs I've talked with say he does get the bodyguard ability because it's the Hexwraiths that are granted the ability to just bodyguard your "general." He does count as the general. 

I expect that will be cleared up, as giving him Hexwraith bodyguard would be rather powerful. 

30 minutes ago, EnixLHQ said:

He might be the hammer we were missing, but he'll also be the BIGGEST EFFING THING ON THE TABLE and will summarily be selected for hard deletion.

Don't neglect your daggers. I'd argue that by including him, your standard rank-and-file death dealers will be all the more effective with less pressure on them.

I'm not a Nagash guy at all. However, it's insane how much his inclusion changes things for Nighthaunt. He makes every other unit better and opens up some really strong builds. 

[LordPrometheus]

2 minutes ago, dmorley21 said:

This was my thinking... but it will need an FAQ. A few TOs I've talked with say he does get the bodyguard ability because it's the Hexwraiths that are granted the ability to just bodyguard your "general." He does count as the general. 

I expect that will be cleared up, as giving him Hexwraith bodyguard would be rather powerful. 

 

Not gonna lie, this would make me thrilled if it happens. It's almost as good as a new tome!

[darkdaysdawn]

8 minutes ago, dmorley21 said:

This was my thinking... but it will need an FAQ. A few TOs I've talked with say he does get the bodyguard ability because it's the Hexwraiths that are granted the ability to just bodyguard your "general." He does count as the general. 

"you can choose either the EMERALD HOST or REIKENOR’S CONDEMNED Procession keyword. All NIGHTHAUNT units in your army gain that keyword,"

Nagash does not get the EMERALD HOST keyword because he is not a NIGHTHAUNT unit, however...

" In addition, roll a dice before you allocate a wound or mortal wound to your general if they are within 3" of any friendly EMERALD HOST HEXWRAITHS units. On a 2+, you must allocate that wound or mortal wound to one of those units instead."

...Does not refer to an "EMERALD HOST general", just a "general", so Nagash would be able to offload damage to EMERALD HOST hexwraiths.

I'm not sure how this could be read any other way?  What is the basis for arguing that Nagash cannot use Hexwraiths as bodyguards?  Was there any reason given by TOs or other people you've talked to?

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by darkdaysdawn
clarification

[dmorley21]

1 minute ago, darkdaysdawn said:

"you can choose either the EMERALD HOST or REIKENOR’S CONDEMNED Procession keyword. All NIGHTHAUNT units in your army gain that keyword,"

Nagash does not get the EMERALD HOST keyword, however...

" In addition, roll a dice before you allocate a wound or mortal wound to your general if they are within 3" of any friendly EMERALD HOST HEXWRAITHS units. On a 2+, you must allocate that wound or mortal wound to one of those units instead."

...Does not refer to an "EMERALD HOST general", just a "general", so Nagash would be able to offload damage to EMERALD HOST hexwraiths.

I'm not sure how this could be read any other way?  What is the basis for arguing that Nagash cannot use Hexwraiths as bodyguards?  Was there any reason given by TOs or other people you've talked to?

 

The people I've talked with are in agreement with you. 

I was thinking it wouldn't work initially, but seem to have been wrong. 

[darkdaysdawn]

2 minutes ago, dmorley21 said:

The people I've talked with are in agreement with you. 

I was thinking it wouldn't work initially, but seem to have been wrong. 

Ok, cool, thanks for clarifying.  I was worried there'd be a big debate and we'd have to wait for another FAQ, which would be annoying since we're already waiting for a WD update and a book...and some new models would be nice...and still waiting...and waiting. 

[dmorley21]

Allegiance: Nighthaunt - Procession: Emerald Host - Mortal Realm: Ghur - Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery - Triumphs: Bloodthirsty

Leaders

Nagash, Supreme Lord of the Undead (970)*

Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (215)* - General - Lore of the Underworlds: Reaping Scythe

Battleline

5 x Hexwraiths (150)* 5 x Hexwraiths (150)* 5 x Hexwraiths (150)* 5 x Hexwraiths (150)*

Behemoths

Black Coach (220)*

Core Battalions *Battle Regiment Total: 2005 / 2000 Reinforced Units: 0 / 4 Allies: 970 / 400 Wounds: 75 Drops: 1

or

Allegiance: Nighthaunt - Procession: Emerald Host - Mortal Realm: Ghur - Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery - Triumphs: Bloodthirsty

Leaders

Nagash, Supreme Lord of the Undead (970) - Allies

Krulghast Cruciator (120) - General - Command Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts - Artefact: Midnight Tome - Reaping Scythe

Spirit Torment (115) - Artefact: Pendant of the Fell Wind

Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (135) - Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist

Battleline

30 x Grimghast Reapers (465)* - Reinforced x 2

10 x Chainrasp Horde (95)*

10 x Chainrasp Horde (95)*

Core Battalions *Hunters of the Heartlands **Command Entourage - Magnificent Total: 1995 / 2000 Reinforced Units: 2 / 4 Allies: 970 / 400 Wounds: 82 Drops: 7

[darkdaysdawn]

KoSoES (General, Ruler of the Spirit Hosts, Pendent of the Fell Wind)

Nagash

Black Coach

10 Grimghast Reapers (x2)

3 Spirit Hosts (x3)

1995/2000 points

Every battleline unit gets 1 model returned each of your hero phases by Invocation of Nagash, plus RotSH and Coach return d3 models more each.  If Supreme Lord of the Undead applies (the inclusion of DEATH keyword in the description is confusing) then Invocation of Nagash returns 2 models and RotSH/Coach return d3+1.

Use Death Magic Incarnate on KoSoES every turn so he has WARD 5+.

Both heroes are generals, so they can both use Spectra Summons to teleport units as needed.

Doesn't abuse hexwraiths as bodyguards, but seems fairly stout as it is, and should be able to hurt things if you play the charges right.

Edited December 21, 2021 by darkdaysdawn

[Leemer]

Assuming the EH bodyguard works you can do: Lady O, Nagash, 5x5 Hexwraiths, Spell Portal, in a Battle Regiment 1990pts.

Gives you an additional 50 wound pool for the heroes.

 

 

[mojojojo101]

I don't think Nagash fixes Nighthaunt but he gives the army a lot of things they didn't have and also opens up a pretty different way to play than we have been used to. I don't currently own Nagash but will buy him for my birthday in January as he can now go in the 2 death armies I play.

Think I'm going to try something like this;

Nagash // Olynder // Harrow (RotSH, Pendant)

10x Hexwraiths // 5x Hexwraiths // 5x Hexwraiths

2 x 4 Glavewraith Stalkers

All in Battle Regiment.

Is it good? probably not, but it seems fun.

[LordPrometheus]

19 minutes ago, darkdaysdawn said:

"you can choose either the EMERALD HOST or REIKENOR’S CONDEMNED Procession keyword. All NIGHTHAUNT units in your army gain that keyword,"

Nagash does not get the EMERALD HOST keyword because he is not a NIGHTHAUNT unit, however...

" In addition, roll a dice before you allocate a wound or mortal wound to your general if they are within 3" of any friendly EMERALD HOST HEXWRAITHS units. On a 2+, you must allocate that wound or mortal wound to one of those units instead."

...Does not refer to an "EMERALD HOST general", just a "general", so Nagash would be able to offload damage to EMERALD HOST hexwraiths.

I'm not sure how this could be read any other way?  What is the basis for arguing that Nagash cannot use Hexwraiths as bodyguards?  Was there any reason given by TOs or other people you've talked to?

 

Holy ******, you're right! It affects the bodyguard keyword, NOT the general! NICE!

[dmorley21]

2 minutes ago, mojojojo101 said:

I don't think Nagash fixes Nighthaunt but he gives the army a lot of things they didn't have and also opens up a pretty different way to play than we have been used to. I don't currently own Nagash but will buy him for my birthday in January as he can now go in the 2 death armies I play.

Think I'm going to try something like this;

Nagash // Olynder // Harrow (RotSH, Pendant)

10x Hexwraiths // 5x Hexwraiths // 5x Hexwraiths

2 x 4 Glavewraith Stalkers

All in Battle Regiment.

Is it good? probably not, but it seems fun.

It doesn't fix the army. It means the army is the same as before, or has Nagash lists. 

I honestly will not be surprised to see Nagash Nighthaunt lists go 4-1 or 5-0 at two day events, whereas I'm always impressed and surprised to see Nighthaunt lists do that. 

[darkdaysdawn]

Lots of good ideas for Nagash + Hexwraith lists, but man...I just can't bring myself to buy hexwraiths.  They look worse than the Crypt Infernal model with two right arms (which I do have, and it bugs me constantly -- I can't unsee it!)

How about spamming generals and abusing teleportation?

Nagash, Olynder (general), Reikenor in Reikenor's Condemmed -- three generals means three heroes that can Spectral Summon units into 12" bubbles around themselves.  Three 12" bubbles covers a lot of battlefield!

PS:  Currently working on hexwraith conversions with Dreadblade bodies and Grimghast arms, but that's expensive, so I'll probably only build one unit with the spare Reaper parts I already have.

Edited December 21, 2021 by darkdaysdawn
PS