AoS 3.0 Seraphon Discussion

[Christopher Rowe]

I got away from gaming and missed out on second edition pretty much entirely (though I did buy and read the battle tome). I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on how our faction looks in the new edition, and I have one specific question--what happened to bound endless spells? Not that I ever played with endless spells, bound or otherwise, but the leaked General's Handbook 2021 points values I've seen for Seraphon don't include any endless spells at all. What, if anything, does that mean?

But don't let my specific question put you off from a free spirited and polite conversation about the faction in general in this brave new world of beasts!

[stratigo]

Seraphon still very good

[Kamose]

As of right now I don't think anyone knows what the deal is with bound endless spells. I expect we'll find out in the day 1 FAQ.

I use endless spells pretty regularly so I'm keen to know. My wild speculation is that we'll be able to control endless spells any where on the board not only to 30". Maybe even the Slann can control any endless spell (friendly or enemy) whether or not he cast it at any distance.

Masters of magic and all that! 🐸

[AaronWilson]

Looking at the points we came of reallyyyyyyy good, a basic Slann only going up by 5 points is fantastic, he's a still a 3 casting wizard, +1 to cast/unbind/dispel, board wide, supplies command points, some armies pay half that for 1 cast wizard so I think that's a big win. Engine of the gods only going up by 5 point and being a hero and a monster is a huge win, heroic action + monstrous rampage per turn for only 5 points extra! 

We got some small increase elsewhere to keep up with the "inflation". Honestly Seraphon are going to be still sitting really high in the meta after the changes, still in a really good spot. 

Edited June 22, 2021 by AaronWilson

[Kitsumy]

??? I see the opossite. Everything was hit double than others. Skinks, saurus etc are useless now.

 

Only cheap carno, bastiladon, cold riders, salamanders and bow estegadon remain playable ( and good).

Also lost 1 passive, of controlling endless. Since it was given to everyone. With nothing to compensate it. And kroak was nerfed really hard in kragnos.

 

So im totally sure seraphon wont remain in tier1, when karadrons wasnt nerfed at all. Archaon tzench not so much etc.

 

Maybe we can be in tier2, not bad but pretty worse than before

[Stegageddon]

Does anyone know if stegs remain battleline in 3rd? My 2nd list was built around the thunderquake battalion so am hoping its still viable.

[mrteige]

it says in the 3.0 points updates that Stegadons are battleline in a thunder lizard army

[Nart]

17 hours ago, Kitsumy said:

??? I see the opossite. Everything was hit double than others. Skinks, saurus etc are useless now.

Excuse me, did you have an actual game to make such statements? Because after 4 games my impression is that we are as good as we were. Just have to adapt to some of the nerfs, but we also gained quite a lot of new tricks to compensate. 

[stratigo]

Seraphon winrate isn't going south of 60 anytime soon, don't worry

[mrteige]

Im going to make a Thunder Lizard army. I want it to be fun to play but have some play competitively. This is my starting point, but how would you tweek it to be as good as it can get.?

 

Allegiance: Seraphon
- Constellation: Thunder Lizard

Leaders
Stegadon with Skink Chief (305) (Linebreaker)
- General
- Command Trait: Prime Warbeast
- Artefact: Cloak of Feathers
- Weapon: Skystreak Bow
Engine of the Gods (265) (Warlord)
- Artefact: Fusil of Conflaguration
Lord Kroak (430) (Warlord)
- Spell: Stellar Tempest
Skink Starpriest (130) (Warlord)
- Spell: Hand of Glory
Skink Priest (80) (Warlord)

Battleline
5 x Saurus Guard (115) (Warlord)
10 x Skinks (75) (Warlord)
- Meteoric Javelins Celestite Daggers & Star Bucklers
Stegadon (265) (Linebreaker)
Stegadon (265) (Linebreaker)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Umbral Spellportal (70)
 

Battalions

Warlord

Linebreaker

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 77
 

Edited July 5, 2021 by mrteige

[AaronWilson]

Having my first 3.0 game tonight, taking a softer list (No Gotrek as there 0 reason not to take him as he's current points) and excited to try my first game of 3.0 out. Will let you guys know how it all goes. 

 

 

[Christopher Rowe]

14 minutes ago, AaronWilson said:

Having my first 3.0 game tonight, taking a softer list (No Gotrek as there 0 reason not to take him as he's current points) and excited to try my first game of 3.0 out. Will let you guys know how it all goes. 

 

 

 

Is that...thirteen drops? I guess it's true what people have been saying about number of drops not being important anymore!

[AaronWilson]

Just now, Christopher Rowe said:

Is that...thirteen drops? I guess it's true what people have been saying about number of drops not being important anymore!

Well I mean prior to AoS 3 we were always out dropped anyway, so that makes 0 difference to us.

I just built a list and then put it into batallions, to make it more cutthroat you'd just take gotrek and fit the rest into a battle regiment (or as much as you can) 

[AaronWilson]

On 6/27/2021 at 4:25 PM, Kitsumy said:

??? I see the opossite. Everything was hit double than others. Skinks, saurus etc are useless now.

 

Only cheap carno, bastiladon, cold riders, salamanders and bow estegadon remain playable ( and good).

Also lost 1 passive, of controlling endless. Since it was given to everyone. With nothing to compensate it. And kroak was nerfed really hard in kragnos.

 

So im totally sure seraphon wont remain in tier1, when karadrons wasnt nerfed at all. Archaon tzench not so much etc.

 

Maybe we can be in tier2, not bad but pretty worse than before

These are the hot takes I need to here. Skinks are useless! 

[AaronWilson]

I had my first game of AoS 3 last night, I took Slann, Starpriest, Astrolith, Oldblood on Carno, 4 x 10 skinks, 1 x 30 skinks, 2 razordons, 2 salamanders, 2 x 5 chamos, opponent had Blades of Khorne with 5 heroes, 1 a bloodthirster, 10 bloodreavers, 10 blood warriors, 6 skull crushers, 2 x 5 flesh hounds, 10 wrath mongers. 

He gave me first turn, I picked battle tactic to kill blood reavers, did that with razordons + magic, buffed 30 skinks teleported them with a skink screen that ran front of them and they killed 4 blood warriors, right flank just hold objective (skull crushers were on the right)

Buddies turn one he moved up, I used re deploy on 30 skinks and rolled 4, kept them safe from any threats / double charge to clear the screen. 6 blood warriors charged skink screen in the centre, I spiked horrendously on unleash hell from 30 skinks and killed the unit, 10 wrathmongers + blood thirster charged and killed the skink screen in the centre. Buddy was a bit triggered from unleash hell, he only read it as the unit charged can shoot not a unit just within 9" of the charging unit.

I won priority, Carnosaur used finest hour, he got hand of glory, he got serpent staff, he got the great drake, comets call killed two heroes over two turns, in shooting I killed 5 flesh hounds + the blood thirster, in melee with carno I killed the wrath mongers as they had taken chip damage throughout the turn. 

Buddy called it there, with him having like 4 units left and me not lost a model + 11 summoning points in the bank

Not the first game I wanted, I couldn't see a good way for him to play around unleash hell and redeploy is really strong to extend those charges + keep units behind a screen safe from melee ranges / a double charge etc. Unleash hell certainly seems another hurdle for melee lists to jump over. Redeploy another thing to keep in your head at all times as well.

Champions being able to issue commands to their own unit is great, big +. 

[Nart]

On 7/7/2021 at 9:53 AM, AaronWilson said:

I had my first game of AoS 3 last night, I took Slann, Starpriest, Astrolith, Oldblood on Carno, 4 x 10 skinks, 1 x 30 skinks, 2 razordons, 2 salamanders, 2 x 5 chamos, opponent had Blades of Khorne with 5 heroes, 1 a bloodthirster, 10 bloodreavers, 10 blood warriors, 6 skull crushers, 2 x 5 flesh hounds, 10 wrath mongers. 

 

Why oldblood over scar vet? You save 50 points on that, which is exactly enough to take second unit of sallies instead of razors.

[AaronWilson]

17 hours ago, Nart said:

 

Why oldblood over scar vet? You save 50 points on that, which is exactly enough to take second unit of sallies instead of razors.

I just wanted to play something full painted and my scar vet on carno isn't yet painted is all.  That said I like razordons for that extra range, and a little bit extra punch in melee.  

Edited July 12, 2021 by AaronWilson

[Orchid89]

How is this for a Thunder Lizaard monster mash list?

Lord Kroak (430)
Engine of the Gods (265)
Stegadon with Skink Chief (305)
Stegadon (265)
Stegadon (265)
Stegadon (265)
Bastiladon with Ark of Sotek (185)
Total: 1980 / 2000

I wanted to stick a Skink Oracle on Troglodon for looks but not sure itl fit
 

EDIT:

I actually don't own Kroak yet  (But do own 3 boxes of the broken Realms box) so maybe this for now.

Stegadon with Skink Chief (305)
Engine of the Gods (265)
Engine of the Gods (265)
Skink Starpriest (130)
Stegadon (265)
Stegadon (265)
Stegadon (265)
Bastiladon with Solar Engine (235)
Total: 1995 / 2000

 

 

Edited July 16, 2021 by Orchid89
no kroak

[PJetski]

Thunder Lizard

Warlord Battalion

• Stegadon with Skink Chief
  • General: Prime Warbeast
  • Artefact: Amulet of Destiny
• Saurus Astrolith Bearer'
  • Artefact: Fusil of Conflagration
• Skink Priest
  • Prayer: Curse
• 10x Skinks

Warlord Battalion

• Engine of the Gods
  • Artefact: Arcane Tome (Hand of Glory)
• Skink Starpriest
  • Spell: Hand of Glory
• Skink Starseer
  • Spell: Tide of Serpents
• 10x Skinks

Hunters of the Heartlands

• 5x Saurus Knights
• 2x Salamander Hunting Pack

Misc.

• Bastiladon (Solar Engine)
• Emerald Lifeswarm
• Soulsnare Shackles
• Chronomantic Cogs
• Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery (Keep a WIZARD alive)
• Triumph: Bloodthirsty (+1 to wound rolls)

1980/2000

Notes:

Stegadon Chief does an absurd amount of damage with all the buffs you can give him in this list. Running three MONSTER units (with the ability to make another with Metamorphosis) is really useful for Battle Tactics.

Astrolith Bearer adds 6" to casting range, including endless spells. Shackles have a huge setup range!

Emerald Lifeswarm heals D3 on setup and after it moves, so you can get a lot of healing done. This is really useful since Coalesced units have very low bravery, which makes it difficult to heal through Heroic Recovery. I like reviving the Skink Handlers

No room for Slanns but I don't think I need them with two extra command points from double Warlord and the Starseer/Starpriest. Considering running Guidance instead of Curse since this army is not high volume fire.

Other options I'm considering:

• Pendulum instead of Cogs. With increased cast range the Pendulum can get some great positions to deal a lot of damage
• Geminids to shut down Redeployment, All Out Defense (shooting), Unleash Hell, etc.
• Swap Grand Strategy to Beast Master (keep a MONSTER alive)
• Swap the Arcane Tome for another artefact (Cloak of Feathers?)
• Swap Hand of Glory on the Engine for another spell (Flaming Weapon?)

Edited July 16, 2021 by PJetski

[Barbarian Borelord]

I haven't played a Seraphon or AoS III game yet: do I understand it correctly that Skinks are never going to have a better save than 5+ now?

[Boar]

1 hour ago, Barbarian Borelord said:

I haven't played a Seraphon or AoS III game yet: do I understand it correctly that Skinks are never going to have a better save than 5+ now?

Generally speaking yes (vs rend 0), but stacking of save bonus will offset rend.

[Barbarian Borelord]

4 minutes ago, Boar said:

Generally speaking yes (vs rend 0), but stacking of save bonus will offset rend.

I'm not sure I follow... From what I was told nothing can be stacked anymore, be it 'to hit', 'to wound', 'to rend' or  'to save'. 

[Boar]

1 minute ago, Barbarian Borelord said:

I'm not sure I follow... From what I was told nothing can be stacked anymore, be it 'to hit', 'to wound', 'to rend' or  'to save'. 

You add up all modifiers first, and only than you apply caps. So you can modify original to hit or to wound roll by maximum +1 or -1, and save by +1 (no negative cap).

So  Skinks have base 6+ save:

and shield +1, and priest ability +1, so it is +2 in total. So end result due to cap will be +1, so 5+ save.

But if in this example your Skinks are attacked by rend -1 attacks, it will be +1+1-1 for total of +1.  So you will ignore one level of rend that way, and still need to roll 5+ to save.

And if you stacked say Mystic Shield on them, that would allow you to get 5+ save against -2 rend. Tough it wouldn't get you anything more than 5+ against  both 0 and -1 rend.

[Barbarian Borelord]

Golly gosh, leave it to Games Workshop to make these things overly complicated.... Okay I got it now, thank you.

[Boar]

4 minutes ago, Barbarian Borelord said:

Golly gosh, leave it to Games Workshop to make these things overly complicated.... Okay I got it now, thank you.

I mean on surface it's quite simple. Add all modifiers, than apply cap. From this interaction however arises possibility of negating rend, especially nasty when used on already decent save unit (4+ and more).