AoS3 - Kruleboyz Discussion

[Arzalyn]

2 hours ago, Sonnenspeer said:

20 points reduction would allow me to have another unit of Hobgrots in my list. Definitely a game changer 😅 

Sorry for my sarcastic reply, but point changes are super unimportant compared to warscroll changes. A 4+/3+ attack profile  would make them so much better - would make you stop just fishing for mortals.

Well the Hakkas have this profile and I never saw someone praise their no-mortal output... 😅

I know the 1" range is more relevant for why we don't use them, but I don't think making a couple more rendless attacks is what they are missing to make they more interesting at the current points. The problem with Gutrippaz is that they represent a tax for any list that don't want to use a couple of Boltboyz units/Big Yellers. Even when you don't see them as a tax and actively try to build around they are expensive and this make hard to build lists around them.  For most lists having some extra points for a extra hobgrotz screen or to change a unit for another one is more interesting them a slight buff to their damage.

 

[NauticalSoup]

6 hours ago, Sonnenspeer said:

20 points reduction would allow me to have another unit of Hobgrots in my list. Definitely a game changer 😅 

Sorry for my sarcastic reply, but point changes are super unimportant compared to warscroll changes. A 4+/3+ attack profile  would make them so much better - would make you stop just fishing for mortals.

Yeah but there's basically zero chance of that, so point reductions are all that's on the table until 4th edition.

And points are literally everything. Rules are only as good as their points, so I would say warscroll design doesn't actually matter in this context since ultimately price always determines the utility of each unit. Any unit can be amazing if you make it cheap enough, and you can kill any warscroll with points increases as we've seen plenty of times in the past. There is a pricing breakpoint where any bad unit starts being good and where any good unit starts being bad, just a matter of finding it.

[Warbossironteef]

Not FAQ related but do we expect any additional releases this year? 100% Kruelboyz are due for a calvary unit right? 

[Arzalyn]

11 minutes ago, Warbossironteef said:

Not FAQ related but do we expect any additional releases this year? 100% Kruelboyz are due for a calvary unit right? 

We have one model (the one with the pet vulture) that hasn't been announced yet, but I would bet it is simple a limited edition hero for some upcoming event. Other than this model we have nothing that would suggest more models. As much as I would love a cavalry unit, I don't expect new releases sooner than a year or two after our tome release.

[Warbossironteef]

3 hours ago, Arzalyn said:

We have one model (the one with the pet vulture) that hasn't been announced yet, but I would bet it is simple a limited edition hero for some upcoming event. Other than this model we have nothing that would suggest more models. As much as I would love a cavalry unit, I don't expect new releases sooner than a year or two after our tome release.

Yeah I'm just wishing for some. Didn't Lumineth get a 2nd release fairly quickly after initial book? 

[Aztok]

38 minutes ago, Warbossironteef said:

Yeah I'm just wishing for some. Didn't Lumineth get a 2nd release fairly quickly after initial book? 

They did, but Lumineth's a special case in that High Elves were the single most popular WHFB army, so they rushed out the army as soon as they had models to ship, and did a second wave once they had another large enough grouping. As much as I love my orcs, we're nowhere as popular as elves.

Edited December 20, 2021 by Aztok

[NauticalSoup]

All the warclans combined have a similar number of warscrolls as lumineth, and half of them are WHFB refugees lol

[Mutton]

19 hours ago, Rachmani said:

40 points seems a lot. I expect 20. But then again, plague bearers are what, 150? I‘d probably put the rippas in the same price range, so 140 is certainly possible and at 140 they get really interesting.

And think about how good Plaguebearers are at 150. Same wound count, 5+ ward, Bravery 10, -1 to hit against missiles without a stupid conditional mini game attached, and they proliferate mortals just by existing. I still say 140, but I'd be okay with 150 for rippas. At least it wouldn't hurt my soul to put them into a list.

[Rachmani]

1 hour ago, Mutton said:

And think about how good Plaguebearers are at 150. Same wound count, 5+ ward, Bravery 10, -1 to hit against missiles without a stupid conditional mini game attached, and they proliferate mortals just by existing. I still say 140, but I'd be okay with 150 for rippas. At least it wouldn't hurt my soul to put them into a list.

Offensively they‘re worse, with less options to buff their output. But with that being said, I‘m not going to argue with you. Rippas are an odd unit with odd point costs. Once they’re in the right spot though, I think they’ll be good and work exactly as intended.

[Sivyre]

FAQ is out and guttrippaz are still guttrippaz for now:( 

Our favourite amulet of destiny is t what it used to be, probably for the best and definitely not auto pick now.

Unleash hell is another big change and I’m not sure how I feel about this. Other armies are for sure feeling this change but KB given the castle play style can still make it work.

Another yucky change is heroic recovery

More interestingly gobsprakk is now 280 points  probably still not worth the inclusion. At least it’s easier to fit into a list of you so wish too.
 

Kragnos got a warscroll change and is more interesting with his new abilities and ward save.

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/

points PDF
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/XTPR7PzBSVcNAAOd.pdf

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by Sivyre

[Arzalyn]

55 minutes ago, Sivyre said:

FAQ is out and guttrippaz are still guttrippaz for now:( 

Our favourite amulet of destiny is t what it used to be, probably for the best and definitely not auto pick now.

Unleash hell is another big change and I’m not sure how I feel about this. Other armies are for sure feeling this change but KB given the castle play style can still make it work.

Another yucky change is heroic recovery

More interestingly gobsprakk is now 280 points  probably still not worth the inclusion. At least it’s easier to fit into a list of you so wish too.
 

Kragnos got a warscroll change and is more interesting with his new abilities and ward save.

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/

points PDF
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/XTPR7PzBSVcNAAOd.pdf

 

No changes to Gutrippaz is really sad... We will have to wait another 6 months and hope they look at them.

Still, we have some interesting changes. The amulet nerf really hit us hard, as our artifacts are pretty bad. Luckly we have Egomaniak to use in place of it, but doing so make us loose the supa sneaky teleport. I wonder if the arcane tome would be a better artifact choice now, it lets the sludgeraker cast mystic shield for the +1 save when it needed and other options form our spell lore/flaming weapons for extra mortal wounds. Does Sneaky Miasma work on the caster itself? If it does it could be something interesting to consider.

Kragons is much more interesting now, I saw some people talking about using him + a pair of breakaboss, which can be interesting with his charge buff. Maybe he can make a more aggressive melee list viable.

I agree that Gobsprakk doens't seen worth yet, but I can see myself considering him more for some lists now that he is just 40 points more than the vulture killaboss. He does bring some utility to the table with all our spell lore + some random mortals to wizards.

[Feii]

A 1 drop army I will be testing! Really super stoked that Kragy didnt go up in the points.

+++ New Roster (Age of Sigmar) [1,970pts] +++

++ **Pitched Battle GHB 2021** 2,000 (Destruction - Orruk Warclans) [1,970pts] ++

+ Core Battalion +

Core Battalion: Battle Regiment

+ Leader [930pts] +

Kragnos, The End of Empires [720pts]

Swampcalla Shaman and Pot-grot [105pts]

Swampcalla Shaman and Pot-grot [105pts]

+ Battleline [960pts] +

Gutrippaz [180pts]: 10 Gutrippaz [180pts], Wicked Stikka

Gutrippaz [180pts]: 10 Gutrippaz [180pts], Wicked Stikka

Man-skewer Boltboyz [360pts]: 3 Man-skewer Boltboyz [120pts], 2x Reinforced [240pts]

Man-skewer Boltboyz [240pts]: 3 Man-skewer Boltboyz [120pts], Reinforced [120pts]

+ Other [80pts] +

Hobgrot Slittaz [80pts]: 10 Hobgrot Slittaz [80pts]

+ Allegiance +

Allegiance
. Allegiance: Orruk Warclans
. . Kruleboyz: Big Yellers

+ Game Options +

Game Type: 2000 Points - Battlehost

Grand Strategy

 

[Mutton]

Kruleboyz only got nerfed in this FAQ. The amulet we needed to keep our squishy heroes alive is much worse now, and our faction artifacts are trash, so there's no good replacement. Shooting gets nerfed with unleash hell, so boltboyz are inherently worse as support. I'm not even disagreeing with these changes in principle, they needed to be done, but Kruleboyz really needed points drops to make up for these losses.

Gutrippas not dropping is a travesty that means we'll see another 6 months of boltboyz gunlines. 

Gobsprak dropping 20 means nothing because he still does nothing.

Kragnos is cool, for sure...but if you don't have him or don't want him, you're out of luck.

Edited December 21, 2021 by Mutton

[W1tchhunter]

Yeah I'm not happy either. Really was hoping for either point drops for gutrippaz or hobgrots to become battleline

[novakai]

On 12/20/2021 at 12:08 PM, Aztok said:

They did, but Lumineth's a special case in that High Elves were the single most popular WHFB army, so they rushed out the army as soon as they had models to ship, and did a second wave once they had another large enough grouping. As much as I love my orcs, we're nowhere as popular as elves.

It not really special case, GSC, sister of battle, and Slaanesh also had second waves soon after the first wave. it just LRL where a shorter window may be due to delays

out a subject but I believe the popularity poll was Chaos, Greenskinz, Empire, Dark elf and then High elf

[Squark]

As far as a second Kruleboyz wave goes... I have mixed feelings. We definitely have holes that need filling, but when I look at the other Warclans it feels like they need new units even more than we do. I wouldn't mind if each of the warclans got a new kit or two, maybe with a Leader option included. Maybe Kruleboyz cavalry with a new Break-Boss or Killaboss option, a Murknobs unit for Elite Badstabbas, some big Bonespliterz in the vein of brutes and the aforementioned Murknobs (Perhaps handing out a desperately needed casting bonus to nearby Bonesplitterz wizards?), and perhaps some sort of siege engine like a giant battering ram for Ironjaws?

Edited December 21, 2021 by Squark

[Sivyre]

2 hours ago, Mutton said:

Kruleboyz only got nerfed in this FAQ. The amulet we needed to keep our squishy heroes alive is much worse now, and our faction artifacts are trash, so there's no good replacement. Shooting gets nerfed with unleash hell, so boltboyz are inherently worse as support. I'm not even disagreeing with these changes in principle, they needed to be done, but Kruleboyz really needed points drops to make up for these losses.

Gutrippas not dropping is a travesty that means we'll see another 6 months of boltboyz gunlines. 

Gobsprak dropping 20 means nothing because he still does nothing.

Kragnos is cool, for sure...but if you don't have him or don't want him, you're out of luck.

That amulet of destiny needed to change, and it’s for the best. Arcanes tome has always been a good choice and still remains so. Morks eye pebble is still a good choice but was always over shadowed by amulet of destiny’s existence.

unleash hell was honestly a good nerf, it was grossly too powerful and wildly unhealthy for many armies. This change however now does have this odd dynamic to it because to be in range may put your boltboyz in range to other shooting but, the same applies for your opponent. Im sure this was by design because it feels some thought was behind the change and we may not see much use of unleashed hell going forward from many armies.

 

[Aztok]

They really did the lightest possible touch. Not really complaining too bad,  but I would have hoped for a few more point reductions to Gutrippaz and... like everythingnin Bonesplitterz. Ah well, the changes aren't major and I don't think they'll disrupt the game too hard. At least Kragnos is actually worth considering now!

[Rachmani]

While I am a bit underwhelmed by the actual results, I do feel pretty good about the changes they made. So it’s probably just a matter of time now. Get the ball rolling, then see another, somewhat bigger wave of changes with the 2022 GHB. Them changing warscrolls is big. Means other warscroll changes are on the table as well.

[wolyhammer]

I can live with the Gutrippas staying at 180, I'm getting more Boltboyz over Christmas so I'll be looking to run a reinforced unit of Gutrippas and two units of 6 Boltboyz as the backbone of my list.

But I think a point reduction wouldn't save us that much, would be more beneficial if Grinning Blades allowed Hobgrotz as Battleline and Skullbugz made a some type of imaginary monster or swamp troggoth that we don't have Battleline.

[W1tchhunter]

11 minutes ago, wolyhammer said:

I can live with the Gutrippas staying at 180, I'm getting more Boltboyz over Christmas so I'll be looking to run a reinforced unit of Gutrippas and two units of 6 Boltboyz as the backbone of my list.

But I think a point reduction wouldn't save us that much, would be more beneficial if Grinning Blades allowed Hobgrotz as Battleline and Skullbugz made a some type of imaginary monster or swamp troggoth that we don't have Battleline.

I agree with the subfactions, big yellers is the only one worth taking by a country mile.

[Fuchur]

17 hours ago, Feii said:

A 1 drop army I will be testing! Really super stoked that Kragy didnt go up in the points.

+++ New Roster (Age of Sigmar) [1,970pts] +++

++ **Pitched Battle GHB 2021** 2,000 (Destruction - Orruk Warclans) [1,970pts] ++

+ Core Battalion +

Core Battalion: Battle Regiment

+ Leader [930pts] +

Kragnos, The End of Empires [720pts]

Swampcalla Shaman and Pot-grot [105pts]

Swampcalla Shaman and Pot-grot [105pts]

+ Battleline [960pts] +

Gutrippaz [180pts]: 10 Gutrippaz [180pts], Wicked Stikka

Gutrippaz [180pts]: 10 Gutrippaz [180pts], Wicked Stikka

Man-skewer Boltboyz [360pts]: 3 Man-skewer Boltboyz [120pts], 2x Reinforced [240pts]

Man-skewer Boltboyz [240pts]: 3 Man-skewer Boltboyz [120pts], Reinforced [120pts]

+ Other [80pts] +

Hobgrot Slittaz [80pts]: 10 Hobgrot Slittaz [80pts]

+ Allegiance +

Allegiance
. Allegiance: Orruk Warclans
. . Kruleboyz: Big Yellers

+ Game Options +

Game Type: 2000 Points - Battlehost

Grand Strategy

 

Hey, I'm just curious (and New to KB), how would this list work on the table? What is the strategy behind it?

[wolyhammer]

1 hour ago, W1tchhunter said:

I agree with the subfactions, big yellers is the only one worth taking by a country mile.

Yeah, I really like the idea of Skullbugz and I can imagine you could make a fun list which has some fellwater Troggoth's and spiders. Maybe as a path to glory list.

[W1tchhunter]

15 minutes ago, wolyhammer said:

Yeah, I really like the idea of Skullbugz and I can imagine you could make a fun list which has some fellwater Troggoth's and spiders. Maybe as a path to glory list.

I have a fun looking list planned out for next year which has a skitterstrand arachnarok in it. But due to the price of gutrippaz I have to take big yellers 😛 Tis a joke

[Arzalyn]

1 hour ago, wolyhammer said:

But I think a point reduction wouldn't save us that much, would be more beneficial if Grinning Blades allowed Hobgrotz as Battleline and Skullbugz made a some type of imaginary monster or swamp troggoth that we don't have Battleline.

I never understood why the gave another battleline option for the one subfaction that have a unconditional effect (not restricted to the 1st round or dependent on a die roll to do something). It makes sense thematically, but the other subfactions needed something extra more than the big yellers. For the skullbugz I would love the Sloggoth to be a battleline option, maybe it would give him a place. What really hurt Skullbugz feasibility for me is the lack of the monster keyword on our troggoths. You really want to have more than 2 monsters there to make use of the allegiance, but its hard to do so when only have two options that aren't cheap + have to account the gutrippaz tax.

Considering the changes history that GW made to AoS they rarely add something as significant as "battleline if" outside of a new battletome, so if they at least dropped the Gutrippaz points it would help the no big yellers lists that have to deal with the Gutrippaz tax. They suggested that we will see more changes more frequently from now on, so let's hope the next update they take a better look at us!