Let's Chat: Free Peoples

[Cedricisme]

On 08/04/2018 at 4:50 PM, MrCharisma said:

Hey Mate

Anthony Magro here, you cracked the clue and found my true identity. I didn’t place as high as 6th at CanCon but I did take Free People to the Australian Masters and did incredibly well. 

I’ve been refining that list for a good 6 months and believe it’s one of the strongest builds currently available. 

Where I struggled at CanCon was dishing out mortal wounds. I got really unlucky with my match ups and even faced a Stormcast army which had a Stardrake on a 2+, re-rolling 1’s, rebounding mortal wounds back to me on something like a 3-4+. I just didn’t have the tools to handle it. 

The Luminark as an ally gives me the 30” range to snipe any character in the backfield causing me grief (i’m looking at your Gaunt Summoner). 

My biggest decision in this army, and i’m still undecided, is do you take the Hurricanum or Luminark as an ally? Do I want mortal wounds or survivability. 

I’ve found my list is strong in all scenarios with the exception of Knife to the Heart. I haven’t been able to pull a Major Victory off with Free People yet, just Minors for days. Maybe the list could be better by swapping the Demigryphs out with Outriders/Pistoliers?!

If I built an alternative list, it would be around the inclusion of a Hurricanum. 

Hehehe

I'm reaaaaally happy to know that someone did incredibly well in a tournament such as the masters with our little faction.  I think its really good enough to get minors victories when you see the others army in this game. I assume you're a good player too because the Free people doesnt forgive if you see what I mean . 

Your list is really nice ! But personally,  I'll stay with the luminark. At 380 points, I think the Hurricanum it's a little bit too pricy for an ally. It's a great unit when you play mix order but when you want to go allegeance Free people, I think the luminark its the best choice.  But, I'm not sure about the writ of dominion, it's a nice combo with the crossbowmen but its a one use ability. Maybe the meteoric armour will be better ? I saw that you use it in the CanCon tournament but as you said, you were unlucky in your matchup. By curiosity, which position did you get in the CanCon ? 

For the Demigryph, I think they're OK. They can move fast, tank a couple of round on something but cannot do great damage and  cannot get most of the scenario's objectives. Maybe outriders is a better fit.. but they're a little bit too squishy. Its sad to say, but they're better in the back supporting the flank in my opinion. Maybe you could use the 30 points discount tho ? At this point, one unit of demigryph and a second general on griffon seems to be the best mobility units in a competitive list. 

For the hurricanum, I have tried a mix order list and did really well in my game against a legion of sacrament. Its not a final product, but it was a playtest and I'm satisfy:

List's name: SpaceX

Leader:

- Lord-Ordinator 100pts
General

- Freeguild general on Griffon 260pts
Greathammer and shield

- Knight-Heraldor 120pts

- Hurricanum 380pts

Battleline:

- 2x 20 Freeguild handgunners 400pts

- 2x 5 Liberators 200pts

Artillery:

- 3x Helstorm rocket battery 540pts

 

Total: 2000 points

I think I can considerably upgrade this list to be better but its a start. The liberators can be remove, I can put only one pack of 30 handgunners, take off the knight-heraldor and use the 420 points left to put a better screening unit like 30x vulkite berserkers and a battlesmith and get a save reroll on the berserkers (4+ save/4+ ward save if they're over 20) that's solid rock.

[MrCharisma]

On 10/04/2018 at 8:08 AM, Graftonianman said:

I see a number of people use multiple large 30+ Units supporting each other. It is a little hard to see actually how many models can see through to enemies. Does anyone use a rule of thumb, instead of eyeballing it?

 

In a competitive landscape, you'll find people follow true line of sight. This usually means ranks of two, stretched out, with a W style set up to ensure everyone has line of sight.

With the amount of models that you're talking about, I think there will be a lot of blockage of that line of sight.

If you want to run it, run it. Don't let someone on the internet ruin your grand plans... I could be VERY wrong.

[MrCharisma]

 

5 hours ago, Cedricisme said:

Your list is really nice ! But personally,  I'll stay with the luminark. At 380 points, I think the Hurricanum it's a little bit too pricy for an ally. It's a great unit when you play mix order but when you want to go allegeance Free people, I think the luminark its the best choice.  But, I'm not sure about the writ of dominion, it's a nice combo with the crossbowmen but its a one use ability. Maybe the meteoric armour will be better ? I saw that you use it in the CanCon tournament but as you said, you were unlucky in your matchup. By curiosity, which position did you get in the CanCon ? 

9

You're right about the Write of Domination. I tried that at the Masters and moved to the Armour of Meteoric Iron at CanCon. The banner was good and did benefit the crossbowmen, but I realised I needed to protect my Griffon and I only had a few options to do it.

I ended up 29th out of 106 at CanCon, and walked away with 3 Major Wins. One of my losses was against an Aetherstrike SCE army in the hands of a very skilled General. I pushed him to the brink but just couldn't handle the sheer output of the large unit of longstrike crossbows and the units jumping around the backboard burning my objectives (Scorched Earth)... and the other against the incredibly buffed Stardrake in Battle For The Pass. The SCE dropped from the sky onto the 3 objectives and the Stardrake with his 1-2+ save, rerolling, bouncing mortal wounds back... I just couldn't respond. I went at him with 2 Griffons and they hurt themselves more than the Drake.

 

6 hours ago, Cedricisme said:

For the Demigryph, I think they're OK. They can move fast, tank a couple of round on something but cannot do great damage and  cannot get most of the scenario's objectives. Maybe outriders is a better fit.. but they're a little bit too squishy. Its sad to say, but they're better in the back supporting the flank in my opinion. Maybe you could use the 30 points discount tho ? At this point, one unit of demigryph and a second general on griffon seems to be the best mobility units in a competitive list. 

For the hurricanum, I have tried a mix order list and did really well in my game against a legion of sacrament. Its not a final product, but it was a playtest and I'm satisfy:

8

I think you might be looking at my Masters list, because I used 2 Griffons at CanCon and definitely found them better for competitive play. They hunt well in packs.

If I took Outriders or Pisoliers, in a mission like Knife to the Heart I think I would just hide them until turn 3 and then while everyone is fighting in the middle... do a mad dash and hope for the best. Maybe it needs a unit of 10.

The Hurricanum is great but it just takes up too many ally points.

In a Mixed Order list you might want to add Skinks as battleline instead of the liberators. They're tough and dirty cheap!

[ParachuteHopper]

Hey all,

A buddy of mine recently gave me an old Empire army that he isn't using anymore. They'll all need to be stripped, repainted and rebased, so I have plenty of time to mull over strategy. I have a couple questions regarding organizing your troops and LOS.

I've got 80 guard with halberds (I'll be giving them shields as well once I order some in.) 
30 handgunners
20 Greatswords

I am considering using a unit of 40 guard to act as a shield for the 30 handgunners. What is considered best practice when organizing your guard troops to ensure your handgunners retain LOS through them? I'm considering two rows leaving gaps between the columns for the handgunners to shoot through.  The 20 greatswords can round out the company while I use 2x20 guards as objective babysitters/reinforcements. I think these troops will act as a pretty great base to build the rest of the army on, and I would love to hear your thoughts. 

[Graftonianman]

@ParachuteHopper It was mentioned on this thread a 2-rank “W” formation. This is a bit fidgety, but I understand the intent. 

At adepticon, it was widely accepted that models, generally, do not block line of sight. The assumption is that “some part” of the back rank cat see at least “some part” of the enemy. There are some exceptions, such as a small character behind many ranks of larger figures. And terrain often blocked los. 

Its a different concept from prior versions of warhammer and most other games. The gamey-ness of shooting is mitigated through other game specifics.

So, your 40 guard shield would be just fine for the 30 gunners. 

[someone2040]

Yeah, in general unless your guys are like base to base 3-4 ranks deep it's pretty likely that a unit behind is going to be able to see through some gaps in the unit.

Also, humans tend to be a little smaller than a lot of the stuff being popular these days. So a lot of the time it doesn't really come up with everything Chaos Warrior sized and above being taller than the Freeguild Guard out the front anyway.

 

That being said, I had some Jezzails in my mixed Chaos army and boy, it can actually be tough to draw line of sight when they're half the height of the Chaos Warriors and the other stuff in the mix. So it can always be good to get down and check if you're not sure.

[Alith]

I am thinking about starting a Freeguild army, however I want to make it with an old Nuln theme (very heavy on gunpowder and canons) and all the artillery are Ironweld. However if I do that I will loose the great companies bonus which is something that rather appeals to me, is it much of a loss losing the great companies bonus? Should I keep pure Freeguild?

[kenshin620]

4 hours ago, Alith said:

I am thinking about starting a Freeguild army, however I want to make it with an old Nuln theme (very heavy on gunpowder and canons) and all the artillery are Ironweld. However if I do that I will loose the great companies bonus which is something that rather appeals to me, is it much of a loss losing the great companies bonus? Should I keep pure Freeguild?

While they may not have the punch of normal cannons, you can comfortably fit in 3 Organ Guns or Helblaster Volley guns as allies in a 2k list.

[Josh]

2 helstorms is plenty 

[someone2040]

8 hours ago, Alith said:

I am thinking about starting a Freeguild army, however I want to make it with an old Nuln theme (very heavy on gunpowder and canons) and all the artillery are Ironweld. However if I do that I will loose the great companies bonus which is something that rather appeals to me, is it much of a loss losing the great companies bonus? Should I keep pure Freeguild?

I think at the end of the day, you should build a list you'll enjoy playing. Regardless as to whether you go Free Peoples or Order, they're both probably going to be pretty mid-tier in terms of competitiveness.

Overall, there's only so much you can do with 400 points of allies. You basically get to pick 2 war machines you want to include, and potentially squeeze in a Gunmaster depending on which ones. So if you want any more than that, you need to look into a general Order list and lose out on the Great Companies.

Which I think is not necessarily the end of the world, but will definitely change how you build your list as you get a lot more freedom in what you can choose. I think it's a this point you have to be cautious though about not turning into a static gunline list, as many scenarios will require you to reach out with units to go claim objectives.

 

Personally I think outside including a stray Helstorm, you're better off looking into Order these days. Especially with the addition of the Lord-Ordinator and the potential to run Greywater Fastness (depending on your areas love/hate of Firestorm) I think you could build some interesting lists based around war machines.

 

That being said, I think you'll find some very lopsided matchups at times. War machines crews can be real liabilities against anything that can reach out at range to kill them off. 

 

Anyway, check out the Lets Chat - Ironweld Arsenal topic for more in depth about going into the War Machines. 

[Alith]

Well, that's good to hear, I think I'll go mixed order then so I can add some other stuff I have from my collection then such as wizards

[Deathawaits101]

Anyone have any luck with a 40 block of shields and sword guards in competitive play? Was thinking with a luminarc behind them.

[someone2040]

10 hours ago, Deathawaits101 said:

Anyone have any luck with a 40 block of shields and sword guards in competitive play? Was thinking with a luminarc behind them.

Pretty sure @MrCharisma uses them in his lists. 

I think if you're going Luminark and Mega-company there's not really much of a reason not to unless you need to shave a few points for elsewhere. At 40 strong I guess they can push out some damage as well due to the bonuses to hit (and potentially to wound from Hold the Line).

 

Personally I think there's probably a case for all sizes of Freeguild Guard. 10 as chaff/cheap halberds, 20 as minimum great company, 30 if you need to shave points, 40 if you don't.

[Congratz]

Can someone help with a competitive 1000 point Free guild army?
I was thinking:

Free Guild General (General)

Free Guild General on Griffon

40 Free guild guard

30 Free guild Crossbowmen

(940) points)

[ParachuteHopper]

5 hours ago, Congratz said:

Can someone help with a competitive 1000 point Free guild army?
I was thinking:

Free Guild General (General)

Free Guild General on Griffon

40 Free guild guard

30 Free guild Crossbowmen

(940) points)

I would break up that unit of 40 guard into two units of 20. That way you can run a company for its bonuses, and you can split them up easier for board control. 

[Broken Netcode]

How are demigryphs in AoS? Ive got some in my greywater list as my objective cappers and they just seem to die after a few rounds. Last game they couldnt even kill 5 hexwraiths! Starting to feel the same about my General on Griffon, couldnt take out 3 spirit hosts at all.

[SilverJelly]

3 hours ago, Broken Netcode said:

How are demigryphs in AoS? Ive got some in my greywater list as my objective cappers and they just seem to die after a few rounds. Last game they couldnt even kill 5 hexwraiths! Starting to feel the same about my General on Griffon, couldnt take out 3 spirit hosts at all.

Demigryph Knights are good for tying up units a couple of turns or scoring objectives. First thing to know about Freeguild is that they are not anaggressive offensive army. I have had more luck holding an army for turns one and two and then counter punching the rest if the game. You would probaby have better luck keeping your general out of combat. Then, use him to clean up any staggling unit that might be left behind. Very fee things can beat getting held by a unit of 40 guard and gettig riddled twice a turn with 120 to 240 shots depending on your Handgunner/ Crossbowmen configuration.

[someone2040]

4 hours ago, Broken Netcode said:

How are demigryphs in AoS? Ive got some in my greywater list as my objective cappers and they just seem to die after a few rounds. Last game they couldnt even kill 5 hexwraiths! Starting to feel the same about my General on Griffon, couldnt take out 3 spirit hosts at all.

In general my thoughts are you're better off finding 100 points to upgrade them to a Griffon General. He'll do everything you want but better.

The Demigryphs I think just suffer from not really being synergistic with any of the Free Peoples synergies and lacking rend. Our best buff in the list is the Hold the Line, yet you can't use that on fast moving units like Demigryphs very easily. You also can't use it on the charge.

This and the fact the allegiance abilities really promote a more static infantry based list means it's hard to squeeze in Demigryphs. They don't really have enough numbers to warrant using them as fast objective cappers, and they don't have reliable enough damage output to clear off objectives either.

So I think it's hard to squeeze them into a truly competitive list.

 

The Griffon General on the other hand I pretty much think 1 is mandatory, 2 is better, 3 hard to fit. They are a bit swingy, since they don't tend to have a lot of attacks. The attacks that do the most you have the fewest of, and the Claws only hit on 4's. But I rate them really highly. At the end of the day, they're fast, they fly, they have a good amount of wounds and a 3+ armour save. And then they're the only thing in our list (outside allies) that has a high rend. So basically they're the only armour busters we can get in our 1600 points.

[Dragobeth]

On 3/5/2018 at 11:26 AM, Alith said:

Well, that's good to hear, I think I'll go mixed order then so I can add some other stuff I have from my collection then such as wizards

You can use some cities from Firestorm to get more of you mixed Order list too (as Someone2040 say, you can check out the Arsenal topic) if you like warmachines Greywaters is for you (totally biased here, my actual main army is Grewaters-like)

[Broken Netcode]

On 5/6/2018 at 4:55 AM, someone2040 said:

In general my thoughts are you're better off finding 100 points to upgrade them to a Griffon General. He'll do everything you want but better.

The Demigryphs I think just suffer from not really being synergistic with any of the Free Peoples synergies and lacking rend. Our best buff in the list is the Hold the Line, yet you can't use that on fast moving units like Demigryphs very easily. You also can't use it on the charge.

This and the fact the allegiance abilities really promote a more static infantry based list means it's hard to squeeze in Demigryphs. They don't really have enough numbers to warrant using them as fast objective cappers, and they don't have reliable enough damage output to clear off objectives either.

So I think it's hard to squeeze them into a truly competitive list.

 

The Griffon General on the other hand I pretty much think 1 is mandatory, 2 is better, 3 hard to fit. They are a bit swingy, since they don't tend to have a lot of attacks. The attacks that do the most you have the fewest of, and the Claws only hit on 4's. But I rate them really highly. At the end of the day, they're fast, they fly, they have a good amount of wounds and a 3+ armour save. And then they're the only thing in our list (outside allies) that has a high rend. So basically they're the only armour busters we can get in our 1600 points.

Id love to drop my demigryphs but I cant drop 100 points anywhere. If I do then I lose out on all synergies I've made. Any suggestions for what they could be swapped for in a Greywater Fastness list?

[offroadfury]

Whats the best way to get knights in an Freeguild army list? I have fondness for the old Empire knights and would be sad to always have to leave at home

[ParachuteHopper]

47 minutes ago, offroadfury said:

Whats the best way to get knights in an Freeguild army list? I have fondness for the old Empire knights and would be sad to always have to leave at home

You can't. Not in a Freeguild list at least. You can go ahead and run a mixed order list if you really want them. 

[offroadfury]

Ah thanks @ParachuteHopper

I bet one could put two knights one of the larger bases to count as demigryph knights. I wonder how GW will address regular humans in the future releases

[ParachuteHopper]

12 hours ago, offroadfury said:

Ah thanks @ParachuteHopper

I bet one could put two knights one of the larger bases to count as demigryph knights. I wonder how GW will address regular humans in the future releases

I had a few that I was given a while ago, if you have any repeated guns you can also consider converting them into outriders!

[Clan's Cynic]

OwO what's dis.