25mm < 1" = 2 ranks?

[pforson]

Hi,

I was at a tournament yesterday and I took Skaven Clanrats on 25mm round bases with Rusty Blades (1" reach)

In my first game we played it that the second rank could attack because 25mm is less than 1 inch (barely).

However, in my second game my opponent insisted that 1 inch meant only the first rank and 2 inches would include the second. It was only a small friendly tournament, so we played it his way, but which is correct?

25mm rounds, 1" reach = 1 rank or 2?

Thanks,

Pete

[The Jabber Tzeentch]

There's nothing we do that involves weighing people and sugar together though. [emoji6] I agree that we're on our way to bigger bases all round. Can't see much coming out on 25mm. Are ghouls on 25mm? Maybe removes will but new stuff seems to be on 32mm. Even the fyreslayers are on the bigger size. I've rebased all my old metal dwarves on 32s. Gonna wait until the steamhead duardin come out to find out I definitely should change the basing again.

Ghouls, skinks and Skaven Pestilens troops have been reboxed with 25mm

[Hvy]

I did misread what you said- my apologies. 

 

 

[thediceabide]

1 hour ago, Hvy said:

Actually, 50mm is less than 2". About .4mm less. 

You may have misread because that's what I said, haha. 50mm is 0.8mm short of 2", just like 25mm is 0.4mm short of an inch. That's why 1" reach models can swing over a 25mm base and 2" reach models can swing over a 50mm base.

[Hvy]

5 hours ago, thediceabide said:

Well, you're only even exactly 25mm away from the enemy, when you're directly behind the other model in a perfectly straight line with the enemy, if your models are in B2B and in any position other than precisely behind, you're getting closer and closer.

The question is, if that 4/10 of a mm doesn't matter, when is it big enough to matter? Are you only in range when you're within 24mm? How about 25mm? No? 24.5mm? How about a 2" reach models on 50mm bases, now we're talking about 8/10 mm, almost a full MM within range, and basically the same concept.

All of the models in this diagram are within 1" of the enemy. A is directly behind a friendly model. B is fitting snugly between two models getting as close as possible. C is slightly offset, and obviously closer than A... If 25.4mm is too close to call, when does it stop?

Actually, 50mm is less than 2". About .4mm less. 

Don't get me wrong- I am totally impressed with the diagram and appreciate the thought process.

[thediceabide]

On 9/20/2016 at 6:49 PM, Hvy said:

LOL sorry I forgot the 4/10 of a mm. I didn't realize we were looking to be that accurate 

Well, you're only even exactly 25mm away from the enemy, when you're directly behind the other model in a perfectly straight line with the enemy, if your models are in B2B and in any position other than precisely behind, you're getting closer and closer.

The question is, if that 4/10 of a mm doesn't matter, when is it big enough to matter? Are you only in range when you're within 24mm? How about 25mm? No? 24.5mm? How about a 2" reach models on 50mm bases, now we're talking about 8/10 mm, almost a full MM within range, and basically the same concept.

All of the models in this diagram are within 1" of the enemy. A is directly behind a friendly model. B is fitting snugly between two models getting as close as possible. C is slightly offset, and obviously closer than A... If 25.4mm is too close to call, when does it stop?

[Hvy]

LOL sorry I forgot the 4/10 of a mm. I didn't realize we were looking to be that accurate 

[The Jabber Tzeentch]

Just broke out the tape measure- 25mm and 1" are the same and the base measures out to 25mm/1"

It's a bit hard to see on a tape measure

But even if it was exactly 25mm, all you have to do is place your models staggered so they're in the dip between two bases. You can even do this with 32mm fairly easily to get within the 1" range.

[Andreas]

1 hour ago, Hvy said:

Just broke out the tape measure- 25mm and 1" are the same and the base measures out to 25mm/1"

You might need to look for a new tape measure. ?

[Hvy]

13 hours ago, RuneBrush said:

Just had a curious thought - has anybody actually measured a 25mm base to confirm it's 25mm and not 1 inch?

Just broke out the tape measure- 25mm and 1" are the same and the base measures out to 25mm/1"

[RuneBrush]

Just had a curious thought - has anybody actually measured a 25mm base to confirm it's 25mm and not 1 inch?

[hobgoblinclub]

Yes it is odd that they mingle Imperial and Metric, but then again we do that all the time in our normal lives. Measuring weights of people in stone and weights of sugar in grams.

 

 

There's nothing we do that involves weighing people and sugar together though. [emoji6] I agree that we're on our way to bigger bases all round. Can't see much coming out on 25mm. Are ghouls on 25mm? Maybe removes will but new stuff seems to be on 32mm. Even the fyreslayers are on the bigger size. I've rebased all my old metal dwarves on 32s. Gonna wait until the steamhead duardin come out to find out I definitely should change the basing again.

[rokapoke]

2 hours ago, Nico said:

Measuring weights of people in stone and weights of sugar in grams.

 

 

I have never understood the use of "stone" as a unit. We don't use it here in the US, so I'm sure that's a huge part of it. I get feet, but somehow 14 of something being special doesn't work. Stupid Imperial units! 

Be that as it may, I think it's better that they use metric for base sizes because otherwise we'll be talking about things like 1 17/32" or something. Millimeters get much better precision for stuff like that. 

[Nico]

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Realisticly, the intention is probably that 1" range attacks are meant to be single rank when the models in the front rank don't allow gaps. 

 

This is not going to fly as a general rule (devastating nerf to Goblins and Skaven). They have moved towards larger models and bases so this will be the case for Liberators and so on as a result of measurements.

Yes it is odd that they mingle Imperial and Metric, but then again we do that all the time in our normal lives. Measuring weights of people in stone and weights of sugar in grams.

 

 

[hobgoblinclub]

As people have said it'd depend if the models are pushed up tight together or slightly spread out to allow the second rank to shuffle in. To be sure you'd have to measure ever model's range in every combat. Realisticly, the intention is probably that 1" range attacks are meant to be single rank when the models in the front rank don't allow gaps. 

It seems that they should have taken the opportunity of a relaunch to standardise the base sizes with the measuring. Seems wierd that we're still using a mix of metric and imperial measurements. What about in other countries? Do your short range attacks reach 2.5cm? 

[thediceabide]

Interestingly, a 32mm model fighting over two more 32mm models that are in perfect base contact, can at least reach a 60mm base, and if they're spread out even a tiny bit, the back row could reach a 80mm base.

Blue is model in question, green represents two more friendly models, pink is a 1" long line.

[mmimzie]

It's geometry and the same as measuring. Infact is better than hovering a ruler over models heads.

[daedalus81]

32mm separated by .5 inch with models in the crevasses can get 2 ranks

[Andreas]

And to make it even more confusing for your previous opponent. You do not place you second rank directly behind your first rank so if you leave a few mm between your models even 32mm bases fight in two ranks. So I would even say that this is correct in most cases:

32mm rounds, 1" reach = 2 ranks.

[BaldoBeardo]

1 inch is 25.4 mm. If you're playing base-to-base contact, then if you're in contact with a 25mm base that is in contact with an enemy model's base, you're within 1", at least in this Euclidean universe.

However, that's only as "official" as using bases to measure.

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