AoS 2 - Har Kuron (Broken Realms: Morathi) Discussion

[Aelfric]

On 12/3/2020 at 3:47 PM, Graywater said:

Nearly every unit available to this city falls into the category of high number of attacks with low rend and 1 damage. Executioners, darkshards, corsairs... they all force a lot of dice, but don't average all that highly.  Its great for lightly armored units, but high save units shrug it off. I think for this reason, a sorceress with vitriolic spray is a must. Cast the spellportal or at least give her a balewind and suddenly those darkshards threaten nearly every unit in the game. But otherwise, you're going to lack for rend without morathi and some snakes of some kind.

I've been considering taking Morathi and giving her Vitriolic Spray.  Keep the Shadow Queen back for a bit and with a Sorceress with the Traitor's Banner next to Her, She'll be at -2 to hit in combat and -3 against missiles (or more with Word of Pain).  A unit of Executioners or Blackguard in front and She can be right up in the enemy without being in much danger.  Anyway, that's the plan - just have to buy and paint Morathi  

[Graywater]

1 hour ago, Aelfric said:

I've been considering taking Morathi and giving her Vitriolic Spray.  Keep the Shadow Queen back for a bit and with a Sorceress with the Traitor's Banner next to Her, She'll be at -2 to hit in combat and -3 against missiles (or more with Word of Pain).  A unit of Executioners or Blackguard in front and She can be right up in the enemy without being in much danger.  Anyway, that's the plan - just have to buy and paint Morathi  

A big part of morathi's value is her indestructibility. You just aren't getting value from her if you arent throwing the shadow queen forward. Morathi-khaine is a useful spellcaster, but you're losing out on a lot of what you paid for if you arent willing to use the big snake as a destructive disruption. People shouldn't be targeting little morathi anyways. She can't die, and she has plenty of debuffs on her warscroll/with lookout sir. I guess what I'm saying is you don't need to invest into her specifically. She does what you need her to on her own.

Also, id look into taking a different spell for her. Her +1 is useful, but vitriolic spray goes off on an 8. Let a sorceress cast it with +2, and morathi can carry sap strength or withering for more reliability. Trying for a 7 is far from reliable. Trust me, I got one mind razor (cast on a 7) out of 10 attempts with morathi at my last tournament. The +1 didn't help enough.

[Aelfric]

1 hour ago, Graywater said:

A big part of morathi's value is her indestructibility. You just aren't getting value from her if you arent throwing the shadow queen forward. Morathi-khaine is a useful spellcaster, but you're losing out on a lot of what you paid for if you arent willing to use the big snake as a destructive disruption. People shouldn't be targeting little morathi anyways. She can't die, and she has plenty of debuffs on her warscroll/with lookout sir. I guess what I'm saying is you don't need to invest into her specifically. She does what you need her to on her own.

Also, id look into taking a different spell for her. Her +1 is useful, but vitriolic spray goes off on an 8. Let a sorceress cast it with +2, and morathi can carry sap strength or withering for more reliability. Trying for a 7 is far from reliable. Trust me, I got one mind razor (cast on a 7) out of 10 attempts with morathi at my last tournament. The +1 didn't help enough.

What you say makes a lot of sense and keeping the Shadowqueen back more than one turn would be wasteful, and probably wasteful even then.  Getting a Sorceress within 6" and alive to cast Vitriolic Spray was a struggle in Anvilguard.  Perhaps with Traitor's Banner and the Shadowqueen as a distraction, a Sorceress may stand a better chance in Har Kuron.  Thank you for the input.  

[Graywater]

Just now, Aelfric said:

What you say makes a lot of sense and keeping the Shadowqueen back more than one turn would be wasteful, and probably wasteful even then.  Getting a Sorceress within 6" and alive to cast Vitriolic Spray was a struggle in Anvilguard.  Perhaps with Traitor's Banner and the Shadowqueen as a distraction, a Sorceress may stand a better chance in Har Kuron.  Thank you for the input.  

Balewind Vortex is your friend. Now you have a 12 inch threat for it. Or better yet, because you're running morathi, you can use one of her 3 casts to cast the spellportal. Now you have a 27 inch threat range (3" from sorceress to 1st mirror, 18" to second, and 6" from there). Nobody is safe from that 

[Aelfric]

2 minutes ago, Graywater said:

Balewind Vortex is your friend. Now you have a 12 inch threat for it. Or better yet, because you're running morathi, you can use one of her 3 casts to cast the spellportal. Now you have a 27 inch threat range (3" from sorceress to 1st mirror, 18" to second, and 6" from there). Nobody is safe from that 

I have the Spell portals built and primed, but I always struggle to fit them in a list, not only because of their points but also having to have two Sorceresses to cast Portals and then Vitriolic Spray plus the sacrificial unit.  It always felt like a big points sink for something requiring two dice rolls to succeed.  At least in Anvilguard, with no two-casting wizard.  I was hoping we might get a 2 cast Sorceress on Black Dragon, but alas no such luck.  I shall paint up the Portals anyway and give them a go in Har Kuron with Morathi. 

I've avoided investing in a Balewind, as I was under the impression that it was on the way out - at least you can't seem to buy one anymore from GW.  Having lots of models still on squares that have no current use in the game has made me slightly reticent when it comes to buying models whose future is uncertain.  Although, I am glad I made the leap of faith to transfer my Dark Elves onto rounds (unlike Greenskins, they were playable in the time of  no points).

[Lord of the Isle]

12 hours ago, stratigo said:

 

I did take it as morathi had the entire non elf population massacred

A bit of enslavement seems more in character / retro Druchii. Let’s see if Soulbound enlightens us

[hurben]

With the idea to use Morathi, I've made a list around her. Let me know what do you guys think about it.

The main goal, is to put pressure on the ennemies with the Lauchon but also with the ability to run & shoot + charge with the Sorceress. I imagine 80% of the time, I'll have turn 1 because the opponent will certainly try to get the double turn on me. With Vitriolic and the Lauchon + the Sorceress CA I can put this pressure on turn 1. I chose Steed of Shadows for the Morathi-Khaine because to my mind, the combo with her spell is a really way to snipe heroes. We have to remember she does 3x 3+/3+/-1/D3 and also 6x 3+/3+/-1/1 which is for me a thing to not denied. I will use the lauchon turn 1 with the 20 shards and do the CA of the Sorceress on the 30 shard with the Har Kuron prayer on them. I have the option to use the launchon with a 20 guards unit also, it will depend on the game.

 

Harkuron-MorathiStyle.pdf

Edited December 7, 2020 by hurben

[Boar]

On 12/6/2020 at 7:44 PM, stratigo said:

 

I did take it as morathi had the entire non elf population massacred

What happens in Anvilgard itself is one thing. New mailed story from Broken Realms shows Indoneth and Khainites slaughtering setlements surrounding Anvilgard to prevent word of betrayal.

[Greed]

Hi! I made two lists for a 1500 points match vs Sylvaneth and vs Stormcast Eternals. 

Which one would be more competitive?

In the list (2) i play 10 Khainite Shadowstalker (couldnt find them in Warscroll Builder)

 

HarKuron1.5k(2).pdf HarKuron1.5k.pdf

[Crashnarf]

The second (2) is nice, I like it.

In fact, I've played almost the same. but with a assasin and 10 shadows warriors instead of your sorceress and Shadowstalkers.

But You should tell us about the artefact and command trait you will choose 😉

The one with Morathi has not enought mobility I think, but she still remain good for me.  The second list look more versatile for me.

[Greed]

On 12/31/2020 at 12:14 PM, Crashnarf said:

The second (2) is nice, I like it.

In fact, I've played almost the same. but with a assasin and 10 shadows warriors instead of your sorceress and Shadowstalkers.

But You should tell us about the artefact and command trait you will choose 😉

The one with Morathi has not enought mobility I think, but she still remain good for me.  The second list look more versatile for me.

In both lists the Sorc is the General. In the Morathi-List  she gets the Prayer trait and the -1 top hit in range attack banner.

In the second list without Morathi, she gets the Dark Adept trait + banner top cast at least 3 Spells (2 from Sorc, 1 from Drusa). The slaughter Queen gets the Mask for CP on 5+

[EJC]

When I look at Har Kuron in general the two strongest benefits is the incitement to murder prayer and the possibility to bring Morathi in a non DoK army.

What the DoK often lacks is proper spellcasting and shooting - the very thing the Dark Elves CoS units are best at. 

My ideal list would be something like this:

The Shadow Queen 

Morathi Khaine - Vitrolic Spray

Hag Queen

Sorceress - General, Withering, Muderous zeal

Dreadlord on Black Dragon - sword and shield 

Assassin - Traitors banner

 

10 Black Guard

10 Black Guard 

10 Dreadspears

20 Darkshards

20 Darkshards

1 Drakespawn Chariot

2000/2000

The main army is the darkshards in the back, black guards in the front to screen, (Two of the best units for the prayer) and a hagqueen/sorc in the middle with 12" prayer.

We have this symmetrical blob x2 and can split up in two directions if the objective calls for it. 

The Dreadspears are again there for screen and sorc fodder and the Chariot can grap a third remote objective. I like it as the Drakespawn version where its a little more sturdy and we should have more than enough shooting. 

Shadow Queen and the dreadlord don't need much support and should be able to charge in and wreak havoc. 

The Assassin is always a bit of a joker. I like that he can pop in with the banner where it is needed, but you can easily take another Chariot instead of him - alternatively you can cut him for another Sorc and replace one black guard unit with executioners so the points fit.

Any thoughts are welcome 🙂

[Stirlz]

Hey all! I am new to the hobby, and am thinking of creating a Har Kuron army. I have a question about the books. To get all of the rules for a Har Kuron army do I need to have 1. the cities of sigmar 2. the daughters of kaine AND 3. the broken realms morathi books? that seems absurd to buy up front. Maybe I start with a Daughters of Kaine army so that I can spend my money on some models and expand my books and range later?

[stratigo]

11 hours ago, Stirlz said:

Hey all! I am new to the hobby, and am thinking of creating a Har Kuron army. I have a question about the books. To get all of the rules for a Har Kuron army do I need to have 1. the cities of sigmar 2. the daughters of kaine AND 3. the broken realms morathi books? that seems absurd to buy up front. Maybe I start with a Daughters of Kaine army so that I can spend my money on some models and expand my books and range later?

 

Yes, and yes it is utterly absurd. GW's approach to books is old fashioned and summed up as "You're gonna buy from us anyways losers"

[Boar]

From DoK you would only need warscrolls I think and those are generally free, speed of updates of those on website nonwithstanding.

And when I think about that from Cities book you also only need warscrolls (those should be updated on site) as Har Kuron is only city that doesn't have basic Cities rules. That would leave Broken Realms book for Har Kuron rules.

I would say this particular city was meant mostly for people that already collected those two armies. It's mix and those will tend to have additional rulebook requirements.

 

[Overread]

1 hour ago, stratigo said:

Yes, and yes it is utterly absurd. GW's approach to books is old fashioned and summed up as "You're gonna buy from us anyways losers"

Eh the only major wargame I can think of that has tried to move away from physical and toward digital rules is Warmachine and, along with other elements, its seen its population take a nosedive and its recruitment take a big dip. Like it or not physical games work great with physical books. Whilst GW has issues* the core idea of a catch-all lore+rules+some painting books has and continues to work well. If they stuck to any one group - eg listening to competitive players and only included rules; or to lore fans and only included lore etc... then it would fail. The power is having publications that new and existing people can take home on the day and which hit all marks. 

 

 

*speed of book updates; fragmentation of some armies and the lack of keeping things like cards in stock

[stratigo]

15 minutes ago, Overread said:

Eh the only major wargame I can think of that has tried to move away from physical and toward digital rules is Warmachine and, along with other elements, its seen its population take a nosedive and its recruitment take a big dip. Like it or not physical games work great with physical books. Whilst GW has issues* the core idea of a catch-all lore+rules+some painting books has and continues to work well. If they stuck to any one group - eg listening to competitive players and only included rules; or to lore fans and only included lore etc... then it would fail. The power is having publications that new and existing people can take home on the day and which hit all marks. 

 

 

*speed of book updates; fragmentation of some armies and the lack of keeping things like cards in stock

XD Infinity.

I'm fairly sure the SW legions base rules are free and they bundle everything else with the model kits

I mean, pretty much every historic is free rules?

A number of these allow you to buy the one rulebook to rule them all if you want to support the company. Not all of them have the resources for publishing and don't. 

And, like, I have been using digital copies of rulebooks for years and, honestly, I prefer it. I think I have hovered around 15 to 25 books to play all the systems I play for GW for years. 
 

Heck GW wants you to buy into their digital infrastructure for 40k, despite their app being trash at best, and trash on fire at worst. I can only imagine this is part of why 40k's rulebooks and other documents have bloated even harder than 40k normally has. I need like 5 books to run custodes, and 4 FAQs. And I might be forgetting something.

I 'only' need 3 to run KO. For now. Heck I need 4 books to play Necromunda, and that's cutting one whole campaign version and the badlands books. I need 3 for the rules I use for MESBG. Or 4 if I want to goof around with the quest for the ring bearer ringwraith legion.

 

It's legit more common to HAVE free rules, or at least free base rules than it is to have for pay rulebooks. And literally not a single miniature wargame company makes you buy... the base rulebook, your army book, a yearly for pay rules adjustment, and about one to two further books from campaigns that you also have to keep up with to play one army. All of this which cycles roughly in roughly 3 years, except the rules updates which cycle yearly. Or if you play space marines, which cycle yearly it feels like and you also need a further supplement cause, ha you whales. All this for just one army.

 

It's nonsense. We all know it's nonsense.

[Overread]

Ahh free rules! Yeah I do get that, I think that one thing I do see though is that many companies that can, will sell rules to you. Infinity even tries to pressure you with limited edition models* for the first months of a new edition release. In general terms free rules are neat and GW has, esp with AoS, come on board with a portion of free access to much of the rules. The thing is many of the firms that only give out free rules tend to be really really small operations. They basically use the free rules as a loss-leader product/draw to get you into the models.

GW doesn't "have" to play that game and doesn't need the loss-leader of the rules to get you into their system.

 

I do agree the online app for 40K that you pay for doesn't sound ideal, but I think honestly a greater part of that is that GW just hasn't got a quality product on offer. I do think its cheeky that they charge monthly ontop of making you buy the codex to unlock the codex rules; though I did recall reading that GW was using a distribution/host platform for their app which comes with a pretty significant monthly running cost for GW. I suspsect in theory it makes it a very reliable service, but GW's app development is just not up to standard. 

 

*because of how they roll releases all the time this could just be a unique pose for a model otherwise commercially sold; or it could be a model that isn't sold outside of that limited format; and because they roll in and out of production this state can change

[stratigo]

Yes, GW doesn't have to play that game and we, the consumers, are all royally screwed by it. 

 

GW rules are just, like, bad products cycled too damn fast. Like I think they overprice most of their kits, but at least their model kits get to stick around for a decade or two or more being valid. You get 3 years at most out of a codex or BT, and in those three years will have to buy 4 or 5 further books to keep your rules valid and up to date. It's bad value, and we all know it. 

 

There's a reason why piracy is so rampant with this stuff and it isn't just greed and dirty mean pirates hurting poor defenseless multi million dollar GW. 

[Doko]

I bougth my first tome that lasted for one year and i only used for two games. After that i learned and i only download it and print the rules for the armys that i play.

With the money that cost the armys the rules must be free,something as every box have a code that you can use to download the rules of that army

[ColsBols]

16 hours ago, Stirlz said:

Hey all! I am new to the hobby, and am thinking of creating a Har Kuron army. I have a question about the books. To get all of the rules for a Har Kuron army do I need to have 1. the cities of sigmar 2. the daughters of kaine AND 3. the broken realms morathi books? that seems absurd to buy up front. Maybe I start with a Daughters of Kaine army so that I can spend my money on some models and expand my books and range later?

You only need the Morathi book, which I would recommend getting anyway because it is a gorgeous book and the story is excellent. All the other warscrolls are available for free on the AZYR app. 

You need to decide tho whether you really want to do HK or DOK, because in HK you can only have one in 4 units be DOK and the rest only Dark Elves, whereas in DOK you can ally in 400pts worth of druchii.

[Stirlz]

2 minutes ago, ColsBols said:

You only need the Morathi book, which I would recommend getting anyway because it is a gorgeous book and the story is excellent. All the other warscrolls are available for free on the AZYR app. 

You need to decide tho whether you really want to do HK or DOK, because in HK you can only have one in 4 units be DOK and the rest only Dark Elves, whereas in DOK you can ally in 400pts worth of druchii.

I didnt realize I could bring in other dark elves into a DoK army! That does seem more like the right move to me. Ill have to read up a bit more, but thanks!

[ColsBols]

4 minutes ago, Stirlz said:

I didnt realize I could bring in other dark elves into a DoK army! That does seem more like the right move to me. Ill have to read up a bit more, but thanks!

also if you want to read a summary of the rules and spells and stuff they have it all on 1d4chan

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Age_of_Sigmar/Tactics/Order/Cities_of_Sigmar#City_Allegiance:_Har_Kuron_.28Aqshy.29

[PunInquisitor]

What is the points cost for the Blackscale Raiders warscroll battalion?

I recently bought the SC Anvilgard box to use for Har Kuron, and was surprised to find the warscroll for this battalion inside. I haven’t found much about this battalion online and GHB20 doesn’t list a points cost. Anyone know if this battalion has been FAQ’d out? If not, what is the points cost and is there any reason it can’t be used with Har Kuron? Thanks in advance.

[MetaphoricDragon]

I'm curious, did the changes in the new Daughter's battle tome change up any ideas for Har Kuron?