Most Competitive Use of Bullgors/Gorebulls?

[zachlane]

I know they're not especially strong, but what is the best possible way to squeeze value out of the big dumb moo-men? Brass despoilers? Depraved drove? What combination of equipment, allegiance, and synergies produces the strongest possible list with minos? Long story short I have some custom mino STLs and i want an excuse to use them in a game after i print them. 

[JackStreicher]

Brass despoiler battallion. That‘s the only one that comes to mind 🤔

[NinthMusketeer]

Best use is to do a bit of conversion work then use them for counts-as rockgut troggoths, which perform well above their point cost and are strong even in a tournament setting. And no, I am not joking.

The reality is if you want a place where you can use your favorite models and not worry about being obliterated by the meta, Matched Play is not the game mode serving that niche. It is simply not designed to accommodate that type of play, there are others ways of playing and other resources to do that with.

[Skreech Verminking]

with the points drop a doombull is probably one of the best 100points characters, when it comes down to damage potential.

for a well let’s say more competitive approach with those bulls in a beasts of chaos army, I think your best bet is taking the brass despoiler battailons, and use the gavespawn Subfaction abilities, which will give you the commandtrait of +1 attack when near a chaos spawn, which can be used multiple times on the same units, and it stacks.

Of your trying to make bulls a viable option in total, baldes of khorne might be your answer.

thanks to the brass despoiler battailon your bulls can be apart of a Khorne army.

although your doombull might not be able to take most artefacts or almost no traits, nor are your bulls a battleline option when the doombull is the general in a khorne army, Khorne has a lot of option for them.

Bulls are probably one of the worst units in the game, because they lack the skills to hit their foes (which is in fact a only 50% chance) nor do they have the attacks to counter that problem.

with khorne, that isn’t much of a problem anymore.

thanks to certain prayers your bulls will be hitting on a +3, and if you play them right with the tome bearer, who’s name I forgot, and certain other units near them, this bulls will be slaughtering through meatshields and tanks alike.

4-5attacks per model hitting on 3s and wounding on 2s with a -2 rend and 3damage Will hurt a lot of units, unless we are talking about morathi, in which case I just would ignore her.

after-all there aren’t too many units out there that can or were able yo oneshot here in a turn.

ps: there has been, chitter-talk with bulls in a hedonites army.

although not a owner of this book nor knowing too much of it’s abilities or traits, I sadly can’t tell you much about it.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Skreech Verminking

[Grimrock]

Definitely think khorne is your best bet. The bull's huge base damage potential meshes well with all the buffs khorne can toss out and they can actually become pretty reliable. You're still probably looking at running one or two units max though because the buffing prayers are limited to one unit at a time. Still, as mentioned you can get a unit of 6 to have +2 attacks each, +1 to hit, reroll 1s, reroll wounds from the battalion.

The doombull can also take some sub faction traits and artifacts, so there are at least some options. One trait gives +2 attacks and another +1 damage. You can still use realm artifacts too, which honestly aren't bad. Ghyrstrike and the +2 attack trait along with aura attack buffs totals 7 attacks, hitting on 2s rerolling 1s, wounding on 2s rerolling. That'll kill most things in the game. 

Edited April 15, 2020 by Grimrock

[Beer & Pretzels Gamer]

7 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Of your trying to make bulls a viable option in total, baldes of khorne might be your answer

One of the first things we’re going to try when our gaming group gets back together is Brass Despoilers plus Gore Pilgrims.  The latter gets you the Bloodsecrator (for the +1 attack) and the Slaughterpriests for the +1 to Hit buff.  At minimum size for both you still have plenty of points left over to either bulk up your Bulls or add other Khorne buffing units to the list.

[Maddpainting]

Khorne all the way for sure, it heavily buffs them. 3-4 Doombulls for sure as well as they are great now for their points.

[Popisdead]

Here is one avenue to play them.  https://thehonestwargamer.com/aos-list-rundowns/brasswalkers/

 

I've played Darkwalker Bulls a few times,.. and they are weaker but I like the army so I play them.  I don't play tournaments but I have played tournament players with the list.  The mistakes and swingy dice punish you terribly.   Luck (as in not hitting with 2 hits out of 6 guys) and a better movement-phase game makes Bullgors that much better   

 

The psychology of ambushing Bulls can be useful.  

 

I would honestly look at still having Ungor bodies and using Bullgors for the second or 3rd wave.   80-140 Ungors is just,.. so good.  You would basically be looking to trade Bestigors for Bullgors as a flavour.

 

It annoys me greatly they took Warherd and took away all the synergy that made them kinda good and made them more bland instead of making them moar better.

[Fazhak]

I want to suggest a way forward that contradicts the conventional wisdom about Warherd being best in Khorne.

While Khorne perhaps allows a higher damage spike potential, given the faction's options for additional attacks and re-rolling ones, I think Tzeentch and Nurgle are actually preferable for Warherd in terms of consistency.

The key here is to consider that many things, if not in fact most, will either break outright or be substantively crippled after a round in combat that goes well for the Warherd. As such, rather than going with Khorne for a feast or famine approach, I find that focusing on getting that single round to go very well is a better, more rewarding play.

Tzeentch easily supports this approach, as Destiny Dice can ensure that the first round of attacks hit. The 4+ to Hit rolls are arguably the main weakness of the Bullgors, so using Destiny Dice there can make a major difference in damage output. Admittedly, Destiny Dice are (usually) a finite resource, but using that resource through your Warherd to obliterate an opponent's primary hammer unit can make all the difference in the game.

Nurgle is an option that I find superior to Khorne; I actually prefer it to Tzeentch. The reason I find Nurgle a more appealing home for Warherd is because of the Feculent Gnarlmaw's buff allowing Warherd to run and charge. Combined with other movement buffs (the Doomsday Bell, as well as the Cycle of Corruption), Warherd regularly have the potential to charge on the first turn. That threat, and the actuality of setting the pace and location of the game's main conflict points, can really hamper opponents' capabilities.

So, while Khorne is an obvious home for Warherd, give Tzeentch and Nurgle a try before committing to the Blood God. Hope the above helps!

For more information and analysis on using Beasts of Chaos in Chaos God allegiances, please feel free to take a look at the following thread:

https://www.tga.community/forums/topic/25020-a-quick-overview-beasts-of-chaos-and-chaos-god-allegiances/

 

[decker_cky]

I think Tzeentch is the best use for a single larger block of bullgors, to take the +1 attack agenda while boosted by a fatemaster. Destiny dice to get them into combat. 

[Kramer]

On 4/14/2020 at 7:08 PM, zachlane said:

I know they're not especially strong, but what is the best possible way to squeeze value out of the big dumb moo-men? Brass despoilers? Depraved drove? What combination of equipment, allegiance, and synergies produces the strongest possible list with minos? Long story short I have some custom mino STLs and i want an excuse to use them in a game after i print them. 

I’ll argue the Slaanesh case. Give me a bit to figure it out. But there must be some arguments there. 

[Kramer]

Okay it's probably not better than Khorne buuuuutt.... Slaanesh allegiance abilities have a few big advantages for them. The two big things that hold them back from the look of it are the 4+ to hit and the 5+ save. 

To hit 
- Getting them two hits for every 6 to hit is brilliant for high damage attacks. It might even work better with dual axes as every one that you re-roll has a chance to explode into two hits. 
- If you go Great Axe's you could also take a Viceleader/The Contorted Epitome for the 1's To Hit re-roll.
- It also gives you the option of including a mortal Slaanesh wizard with the Dark Delusions spell. That's a bit unreliable but give you +1 to hit vs a unit within 18". 

Protection
To protect your Bullgors i'd say get them into the fights you want and strike first. Slaanesh is full of options to get your opponent to strike after your bullgors and the battalion gives you a situational re-roll failed charge roll already. 
You could take the Godseekers subfaction for 1+ to charge rolls and giving your general one automatic 6 to hit every combat. 
Make sure to check out The Contorted Epitome. Great wizard offensively and defensively. Combine it with the mesmerising mirror for added board control. Second benefit is to get her within 6 of a unit that you want to strike last on a 4+. 
Your HERO's benefit from the Locus of Diversion now as well. 
You can also consider the Wildfire Taurus to get the first strike. (and then dispell it again with a re-roll with your Contorted Epitome to protect yourself)

Doombull
Great 100pt hero. Take the Invader sub faction and you can take three all with a command trait. Or one in pretender with two Command traits. Also remember to sacrifice a bad artefact for re-rolls to hit. Keep those sixes coming. 

Happy accident. 
The Keeper of Secrets comes with a distinctly  bovine head option and is a powerhouse on the table... coincidence?  

The big downside during listbuilding is that the Depraved Drove requires 3 non bullgor units. Maybe 2 Ungor units for screening and a bigger unit of Ungor Raiders to threaten backlines?
If it plays well on the table... I don't know. It would be fun to try though. Would be a tricky army to play. But low drops, high speed 

[Beltrajor]

3 hours ago, Kramer said:

Okay it's probably not better than Khorne buuuuutt.... Slaanesh allegiance abilities have a few big advantages for them. The two big things that hold them back from the look of it are the 4+ to hit and the 5+ save. 

To hit 
- Getting them two hits for every 6 to hit is brilliant for high damage attacks. It might even work better with dual axes as every one that you re-roll has a chance to explode into two hits. 
- If you go Great Axe's you could also take a Viceleader/The Contorted Epitome for the 1's To Hit re-roll.
- It also gives you the option of including a mortal Slaanesh wizard with the Dark Delusions spell. That's a bit unreliable but give you +1 to hit vs a unit within 18". 

Protection
To protect your Bullgors i'd say get them into the fights you want and strike first. Slaanesh is full of options to get your opponent to strike after your bullgors and the battalion gives you a situational re-roll failed charge roll already. 
You could take the Godseekers subfaction for 1+ to charge rolls and giving your general one automatic 6 to hit every combat. 
Make sure to check out The Contorted Epitome. Great wizard offensively and defensively. Combine it with the mesmerising mirror for added board control. Second benefit is to get her within 6 of a unit that you want to strike last on a 4+. 
Your HERO's benefit from the Locus of Diversion now as well. 
You can also consider the Wildfire Taurus to get the first strike. (and then dispell it again with a re-roll with your Contorted Epitome to protect yourself)

Doombull
Great 100pt hero. Take the Invader sub faction and you can take three all with a command trait. Or one in pretender with two Command traits. Also remember to sacrifice a bad artefact for re-rolls to hit. Keep those sixes coming. 

Happy accident. 
The Keeper of Secrets comes with a distinctly  bovine head option and is a powerhouse on the table... coincidence?  

The big downside during listbuilding is that the Depraved Drove requires 3 non bullgor units. Maybe 2 Ungor units for screening and a bigger unit of Ungor Raiders to threaten backlines?
If it plays well on the table... I don't know. It would be fun to try though. Would be a tricky army to play. But low drops, high speed 

Very good point on slaanesh bullgors! 

To complete the depraved drove, you can never go wrong with the  30 man bestigor horde! 

[Kramer]

13 minutes ago, Beltrajor said:

Very good point on slaanesh bullgors! 

To complete the depraved drove, you can never go wrong with the  30 man bestigor horde! 

Oh absolutely! Especially if you add in a Shaman. Gives you some bodies to hold objectives. Crazy amount of attacks (6's to hit anyone) but they will probably outshine the Bullgors. Seeing the question of the thread I thought it wise not to talk about what would perform better 🙊Bestigors are bad*ss

 

[Kramer]

Something like this maybe? Could also drop the Slaanesh elements to keep it Beasts. that frees up 510 points. (also noticed I didn't put in a second artefact.)

Or if you don't like Wildfire Taurus you could drop that and get the bestigors up to 30. Change the Great Bray Shaman for 3 more Bullgors.

[zachlane]

Loving the ideas so far. Not really sold on tzeentch or nurgle tbh, but slaanesh and khorne look good so far. And Im not averse to a unit or two of bestigors. I think khorne helps with durability and accuracy, which seem to be the main issues with bullgors. 

[Kramer]

7 hours ago, zachlane said:

Loving the ideas so far. Not really sold on tzeentch or nurgle tbh, but slaanesh and khorne look good so far. And Im not averse to a unit or two of bestigors. I think khorne helps with durability and accuracy, which seem to be the main issues with bullgors. 

Honestly I don’t know enough about Khorne to make the comparison. 
but generally I do think there won’t be a way to make them the killing machines of the mortal realms. 
so it might be a good thing to consider a different playstyle as well. 
so how do you play the objectives with them? You gonna need more bodies I think. 

[Maddpainting]

Khorne Battalion gives them rr1's to hits and once per game re-roll wounds. In Pure khorne you can attack when they die, attack in hero phase, and even move a 2nd time. A unit of 9 in BoC on the Re-roll wound turn attacking twice with +1atk is just insane damage. But its still a BoC unit so its still a glass hammer unit. Or if you think you will be double turned on or just a unit will die then Fight when you die, or Fight in Hero phase, etc... 

You wont be able to use all of their buffs as some say "Mortals" or "Daemons" but there are still some that will work like the Bloodsecrator +1 to atks.

Also you can just stay BoC, they are still great in BoC but will play very differently, more about movements and placement over hard hitting, with Gavespawn tho you can stack a lot of attacks. Or in Darkwalkers you can Ambush, remember they are +1" to charge base, so you need an 8" charge, if you also have CoG's or re-rolls (heck even both) you can Ambush multiple units and have a reliable charge. 

There are lots of options, but what you get out of BoK over BoC is Bloodtithe, Bloodtithe with 15-18 Bullgors is really scary. Sadly, its a easily tactic to play around so it will take some practice if you decide to go that route.