Aos 2 - Lumineth Realm-Lords Discussion

[Enoby]

Maybe I'm just being dumb, but I wanted to check how the Iliatha abilities worked. Unity of purpose says "after a friendly Iliatha Vanari unit uses a command ability...", and I just wanted to check what Iliatha Vanari units could use command abilities? As far as I know, we don't have Vanari heroes. What am I missing? Can all of the vanari units use command abilities?

[Gecktron]

1 hour ago, Enoby said:

Maybe I'm just being dumb, but I wanted to check how the Iliatha abilities worked. Unity of purpose says "after a friendly Iliatha Vanari unit uses a command ability...", and I just wanted to check what Iliatha Vanari units could use command abilities? As far as I know, we don't have Vanari heroes. What am I missing? Can all of the vanari units use command abilities?

Its when a Command Ability is used ON a Vanari unit. For example, when you use the generic re-roll 1s to hit ability you pick a unit within 12/18" to use it on. 

[whispersofblood]

10 hours ago, Enoby said:

Maybe I'm just being dumb, but I wanted to check how the Iliatha abilities worked. Unity of purpose says "after a friendly Iliatha Vanari unit uses a command ability...", and I just wanted to check what Iliatha Vanari units could use command abilities? As far as I know, we don't have Vanari heroes. What am I missing? Can all of the vanari units use command abilities?

CMD abilities state the method of how they are used. Often its the model with the CMD ability that uses it. But the standard CMD abilites are used by the unit you (the player) want to affect, with requirement that a hero or the general is within X inches.

 

[Tiberius501]

Yeah it’s a bit of a bizarre way to word it imo but once you know it’s all good. 

[woolf]

in the lightning reactions allegiance ability it says nothing about keywords, does that mean this applies also to allies? or is there some general rule that would prevent that?

edit: nvm realized it's in the core rules

thx

Edited August 9, 2020 by woolf

[jartem]

On 8/9/2020 at 8:06 AM, Enoby said:

Maybe I'm just being dumb, but I wanted to check how the Iliatha abilities worked. Unity of purpose says "after a friendly Iliatha Vanari unit uses a command ability...", and I just wanted to check what Iliatha Vanari units could use command abilities? As far as I know, we don't have Vanari heroes. What am I missing? Can all of the vanari units use command abilities?

I believe ANY Iliatha Vanari unit can use the Iliatha Command Ability (Even not needing a Hero within 12/18") to activate the Re-roll ones to hit. My take is the way the rule was written points to this.

*Strike in Unison*
"You can use this command ability in your shooting phase or in the combat phase. If you do so, pick 1 friendly Iliatha Vanari unit with 2 or more models. You can re-roll hit rolls of 1 for that unit until the end of that phase."

Notice: No range requirement for the affected unit either (wholly within 12/18") 

Also if it were the old application of "Volley Fire", you wouldn't need to re-word it as a new Command Ability. Plus don't forget, some Command Abilities are not always used from a Hero, some warscrolls or abilities allow non-hero units to use them.

Do correct me if I am wrong Guys.

Iliatha is underrated early by LRL generals in favour of Syar. But a lot forget that with only one Cathallar (Non-named hero) builds, it's the only way to make Cathallar a Know-2spell, Cast-2spell wizard. (Iliatha has no "Forced" Command Trait to give General)

[LuminethMage]

You are right, there is no specific range limit for the command abilities. You just need a hero on the battle field (condition to use any command abilities at all in the Core Rules). 

 

[jartem]

19 minutes ago, LuminethMage said:

You are right, there is no specific range limit for the command abilities. You just need a hero on the battle field (condition to use any command abilities at all in the Core Rules). 

 

Hey thanks for clarifying.

i been using this CA for 2 blocks Sentinels in Iliatha setup. (1CP use)

Love Iliatha and the lore. The idea of the once-greatness of Clones really called out to me. Which is why my whole army is painted Iliatha colours as per Battletome.

 

[LuminethMage]

Iliatha has a a pretty unique background story. Nice colorful scheme, also with the endless spell in the same way! I really like the art picture of the Iliatha warrior in the book.  Looks like more people are going to play Syar and Zaitrec (my favorite), so facing Iliatha might surprise some people, which is always nice.

[jartem]

35 minutes ago, LuminethMage said:

Iliatha has a a pretty unique background story. Nice colorful scheme, also with the endless spell in the same way! I really like the art picture of the Iliatha warrior in the book.  Looks like more people are going to play Syar and Zaitrec (my favorite), so facing Iliatha might surprise some people, which is always nice.

Thanks! Wanted the dichotomy of White/Black also in my units, represent the Light/Dark of the idea of balance, Clones etc, a remembrance to the "Dark Days" and  glorious past of Iliatha.

not sure if ya noticed I changed Eltharion's Celennari blade too 😆

[Wyliekyote]

On 8/7/2020 at 11:18 PM, Wyliekyote said:

Hey all!  Looking into different storage/transport solutions. Can anyone give me the dimensions, esp height, of the Light of E and the Steed Master/Steed Bennerman? Thx!

Repost/Bump....

Anyone with a built LoE out there measure his height?  And the Dawnrider with Banner and/or Steedmaster?

PS: any idea how big the Mountain Spirits or Teclis will be?

[Pravus_Obsideo]

14 hours ago, Wyliekyote said:

Repost/Bump....

Anyone with a built LoE out there measure his height?  And the Dawnrider with Banner and/or Steedmaster?

PS: any idea how big the Mountain Spirits or Teclis will be?

LoE is just under 8cm with base, and the banner Dawnrider is under 12cm.

 

I suspect Teclis will end up around 26-28cm or so, but that is just estimating based on the photo in the battletome with the Bloodthirsters (pages 42-43), which are 24cm tall according to google.

[Acid_Nine]

So anyone have any experience trying to get models into base to base with the wardens? Cause the spears are nice but I dunno how fun they are to play with in a game!

 

Also, one of the things I want to know is how much brain drain happens to the lumineth when they are outside of hush. I know them spending long periods outside of the realm makes their thoughts a little sluggish, but I would like to hear information on lumineth colonies / bases being set up outside the realm of hysh.

[Tiberius501]

35 minutes ago, Acid_Nine said:

So anyone have any experience trying to get models into base to base with the wardens? Cause the spears are nice but I dunno how fun they are to play with in a game!

 

Also, one of the things I want to know is how much brain drain happens to the lumineth when they are outside of hush. I know them spending long periods outside of the realm makes their thoughts a little sluggish, but I would like to hear information on lumineth colonies / bases being set up outside the realm of hysh.

Yeah me too. Mine will be crusading through the realm of life to join them into my group’s setting, so would be interesting to know how they work outside of Hysh.

[LuminethMage]

8 hours ago, Acid_Nine said:

So anyone have any experience trying to get models into base to base with the wardens? Cause the spears are nice but I dunno how fun they are to play with in a game!

 

Also, one of the things I want to know is how much brain drain happens to the lumineth when they are outside of hush. I know them spending long periods outside of the realm makes their thoughts a little sluggish, but I would like to hear information on lumineth colonies / bases being set up outside the realm of hysh.

Beauty is pain? : )

About the brain drain - these effects of the realms on people is really interesting in AoS, but I don't think there is a real structure to it. It's more how much a narrator needs to make their story interesting. As long as not some Black Library author picks up on that, or it coming up in the Soulbound RPG I don't think we'll hear much about it. 

Things we could imagine is that they might rely even more on Aetherquartz outside of Hysh, which could cause all kind of problems and interesting storylines (from the logistics, to not getting too addicted etc.).

If it's a colony or more permanent base, what I could see is that Teclis or some mage/artisan comes up with smaller versions of the Enlightenment Engines, which Teclis made to recreate Hyshian effects in other Realms. So that at least permanent population centers are not suffering from Hyshian withdrawal effects as long as they stay inside of its range. 

 

[Troll.exe]

Just wondering if anyone has gone with a heated metal scheme for the wardens spears? A blue/purple tip like an overheated gun barrel for example. I’m tossing round the idea in my head. Just about up to the spears on my batch paint.

[Dreadmund]

Played a couple games this week and I'm struggling. I ran:

Zemetrica
Avalenor
Cathaller General
Stonemage
15 x Stoneguard
15 Stoneguard
15 x Stoneguard
20 x Sentinels
Hyshian Twinstones
Sanctum of Amyntok

First game was against Deepkin. I thought the immunity to -2 rend and rerolling saves on stoneguard would help mitigate the damage from Eels a little but they still managed to kill all my heroes and enough stoneguard to make the others run away without any heroes left to use Inspiring Presence. Pretty brutal... Eels made a 13 inch charge to kill my cathaller, and without her around I couldn't stop my Stoneguard from fleeing in battleshock. It was a riptide list and he double turned me, so my first turn was 15 mins long and I failed all my spellcasts and then the next 2 hours and 45 mins were watching eels kill everything in my list without me being allowed to fight back... Not being able to use defensive command abilities on the second turn is heinous. In my sole shooting phase, my 20 sentinels were forced to shoot his general, who had an artefact that made him unable to be targeted to they did absolutely nothing. Avalenor had +2 attacks from command ability and not charging on top of rerolling hits of 1, improved rend by 1... but only 1 attack went through for a total of 5 damage so 1 dead eel. Felt totally hopeless from start to finish, probably the least fun game I've ever played. Feel like I lost that one before we even set up.

Then I played a Coalesced Seraphon Saurus Knight list with Ymetrica again. This was actually close, and it was mostly positioning that caused me to lose. I gave away first turn and won priority on the second turn. I managed to kill lots of Saurus knights because of that but I couldn't withstand the Kroak MW spam which killed the Cathaller, Stonemage and Avalenor (he is terribly flimsy to mortal wounds without protection of Hysh).  Cathaller died before my first hero phase. Thought I was being smart hiding her behind overgrown terrain but didn't realise that kroak just ignores the need for line of sight. If I had known, I would have put her further back so he could only hit her with 1 spell. With the heroes gone my Stoneguard melted to battleshock and Carnasaurs. I also failed lots of charges, and spent 2 command points just to engage the enemy so I was lacking for buffs. Even though not a single unit in my opponent's army would have granted them any extra attacks I wish I had taken some dawnriders instead of the Sentinels. Killing Kroak was out of the question, but if my dawnriders had just stood there threatening to run on to an objective then he would have had to play more conservatively and I think I might have been able to eke out a win. As it was there was nothing stopping him from pushing forward with everything he had and ultimately I couldn't withstand it.

[LuminethMage]

5 hours ago, Troll.exe said:

Just wondering if anyone has gone with a heated metal scheme for the wardens spears? A blue/purple tip like an overheated gun barrel for example. I’m tossing round the idea in my head. Just about up to the spears on my batch paint.

You mean something like the below? This is NOT mine, sadly : ). A bit different of course, but it might give you an idea how something like that could look. I took that from the Lumineth Facebook group (by Cinderfall). A lot of people posting pictures over there, so it's great for inspiration. Same is true for Twitter.

[jartem]

1 hour ago, Dreadmund said:

Played a couple games this week and I'm struggling. I ran:

Zemetrica
Avalenor
Cathaller General
Stonemage
15 x Stoneguard
15 Stoneguard
15 x Stoneguard
20 x Sentinels
Hyshian Twinstones
Sanctum of Amyntok

First game was against Deepkin. I thought the immunity to -2 rend and rerolling saves on stoneguard would help mitigate the damage from Eels a little but they still managed to kill all my heroes and enough stoneguard to make the others run away without any heroes left to use Inspiring Presence. Pretty brutal... Eels made a 13 inch charge to kill my cathaller, and without her around I couldn't stop my Stoneguard from fleeing in battleshock. It was a riptide list and he double turned me, so my first turn was 15 mins long and I failed all my spellcasts and then the next 2 hours and 45 mins were watching eels kill everything in my list without me being allowed to fight back... Not being able to use defensive command abilities on the second turn is heinous. In my sole shooting phase, my 20 sentinels were forced to shoot his general, who had an artefact that made him unable to be targeted to they did absolutely nothing. Avalenor had +2 attacks from command ability and not charging on top of rerolling hits of 1, improved rend by 1... but only 1 attack went through for a total of 5 damage so 1 dead eel. Felt totally hopeless from start to finish, probably the least fun game I've ever played. Feel like I lost that one before we even set up.

Hey bud, you aren't the only one struggling to put LRL TheoryCraft list to wonderful fruition.

Lemme share my experiences of having played around 7-8 2k Games on TTS. And some 1.25k games irl.

1. Don't feel so bad about the loss to IDK. They are truly LRL army's worst nightmare as they lock your army in at back (We slow) by turn 2 and the rest get obj. Not to mention shoot nearest nullify Sentinel to some extent and the straight MW spell that can just delete heroes. That being said, I have faced an Eels list and won too but it's definitely not Ymetrica, was Iliatha list with typical Cathallar, voice of mountain and Darkness of Souls shenanigans. (Watching 6 eels run due to a warden unit almost wiped is gold)

2) Avalenor damage output is swingy. Reason, coz it's -1 rend. Which is why I prefer Spirit of Mountain's extra range to 3" and a -2 rend I believe. But.....I "can't" take him given we have not enough hero selection and new GHB Bplans can reward hero characters for more VP.

3) Ymetrica is great, but MW has always been a problem. Instead of Sentinels, a forward wardens should be the unit to "attempt" Protection of Hysh for 9" MW.  "Attempt" is the right word as theory hammer shows an amazing non-Teclis list with bubble. Irl, 40% of my matchups didn't get spell off consistently and that's devastating for us.

4) I tend to favour Auralan Legion and Wardens / Sentinels lists. They have so far been my most competitive lists (Non-Teclis) Mind you when I joined the bandwagon, the first units I really wanted were stoneguard, but tactically not seeing this combo work well irl. Esp with the many shooty armies. Even Wardens being 1W each, I can mitigate turn 1 shooting Dmg by bring Emerald Lifeswarm and 50% of time (roll-off) select Ghyran to give D6 Wardens coming back. It's a combo that only works with 1W wardens, not Stoneguard. 
 

Just want to say, we haven't seen all LRL faction's units. Hang in there. Play more and you will see our faction is Great vs some and can swing disadvantaged to others badly. But it's still fun and tactical. 
 

If playing the units you liked is impt, just ignore above, and go for it. (E.g. Ymetrica) Hope you will enjoy your next games with them. Maybe try the Wardens being -2 to hit coz a Cow is nearby. 🤪 Or the Cathallar with spell portal making a Mawcrusha at back stuck by "Bravery check" using -2 from StoneMage too, can't move, charge, shoot, fight. Or Cathallar stand 5-6 inch behind Warden and activate CP in Syar, making Hero Deathstar target her but Outta Range. 😂 See we got options.

apologies Long post.

[Troll.exe]

17 minutes ago, LuminethMage said:

You mean something like the below? This is NOT mine, sadly : ). A bit different of course, but it might give you an idea how something like that could look. I took that from the Lumineth Facebook group (by Cinderfall). A lot of people posting pictures over there, so it's great for inspiration. Same is true for Twitter.

Cheers for the pointers, I’ll check it out. That is beautiful 👌

[Wyliekyote]

46 minutes ago, LuminethMage said:

You mean something like the below? This is NOT mine, sadly : ). A bit different of course, but it might give you an idea how something like that could look. I took that from the Lumineth Facebook group (by Cinderfall). A lot of people posting pictures over there, so it's great for inspiration. Same is true for Twitter.

Uhhhhh.  uh uh.... dayum..... thats freaking awesome....

[LuminethMage]

@Dreadmund That actually sounds good, because it would be kind of bad if you just could pick them up and easily win games. From a theory crafting POV alone Idoneth look like a pretty rough match up for Lumineth, and your opponent clearly knew what he was doing. If you like the Alarith and haven't seen it - you might want to have a look at the AOS Coach YouTube channel or podcast. Last weekend he had an episode all about how to best use an Alarith build, with several list on it. Hopefully that gives you some ideas. 

 

[whispersofblood]

9 hours ago, Dreadmund said:

Played a couple games this week and I'm struggling. I ran:

Zemetrica
Avalenor
Cathaller General
Stonemage
15 x Stoneguard
15 Stoneguard
15 x Stoneguard
20 x Sentinels
Hyshian Twinstones
Sanctum of Amyntok

First game was against Deepkin. I thought the immunity to -2 rend and rerolling saves on stoneguard would help mitigate the damage from Eels a little but they still managed to kill all my heroes and enough stoneguard to make the others run away without any heroes left to use Inspiring Presence. Pretty brutal... Eels made a 13 inch charge to kill my cathaller, and without her around I couldn't stop my Stoneguard from fleeing in battleshock. It was a riptide list and he double turned me, so my first turn was 15 mins long and I failed all my spellcasts and then the next 2 hours and 45 mins were watching eels kill everything in my list without me being allowed to fight back... Not being able to use defensive command abilities on the second turn is heinous. In my sole shooting phase, my 20 sentinels were forced to shoot his general, who had an artefact that made him unable to be targeted to they did absolutely nothing. Avalenor had +2 attacks from command ability and not charging on top of rerolling hits of 1, improved rend by 1... but only 1 attack went through for a total of 5 damage so 1 dead eel. Felt totally hopeless from start to finish, probably the least fun game I've ever played. Feel like I lost that one before we even set up.

Then I played a Coalesced Seraphon Saurus Knight list with Ymetrica again. This was actually close, and it was mostly positioning that caused me to lose. I gave away first turn and won priority on the second turn. I managed to kill lots of Saurus knights because of that but I couldn't withstand the Kroak MW spam which killed the Cathaller, Stonemage and Avalenor (he is terribly flimsy to mortal wounds without protection of Hysh).  Cathaller died before my first hero phase. Thought I was being smart hiding her behind overgrown terrain but didn't realise that kroak just ignores the need for line of sight. If I had known, I would have put her further back so he could only hit her with 1 spell. With the heroes gone my Stoneguard melted to battleshock and Carnasaurs. I also failed lots of charges, and spent 2 command points just to engage the enemy so I was lacking for buffs. Even though not a single unit in my opponent's army would have granted them any extra attacks I wish I had taken some dawnriders instead of the Sentinels. Killing Kroak was out of the question, but if my dawnriders had just stood there threatening to run on to an objective then he would have had to play more conservatively and I think I might have been able to eke out a win. As it was there was nothing stopping him from pushing forward with everything he had and ultimately I couldn't withstand it.

You have a very immobile army, against one of the most mobile AoS factions. In a lot of ways it's just a terrible list with no threat, against IDK you need to force them out if the rhythm of the tide. If you can't you are in for a world of pain. 

Dawnriders would be a good start, but you also need to get your drop count down or you'll get run over by a persistent lack of agency.

[Acid_Nine]

@Dreadmund

 

Your insight to all this is appreciated, and sorry to hear that your struggling with it. The deepkin in particular is a harsh match up, and as a deepkin player I think  having the cathaller be 3” away from the front lines  While within a squad of dudes would help, but the mortal wounds the morrsarr guard has would be a problem still, so I have no answer. The cloud of midnight trick is particularly nasty, especially for us.

 

The second game sounds like it was a lot more fun, but I agree with others that you need a battalion to help give your list a little more oomph, especially with the defense buffs it provides. 

 

@jartem Also interesting insight! Do you think the -1 to hit aura is better than the -1 to hit targeting debuff? And do you have any experiences with the majority sentinel / warden list? Cause that’s the one I really wanna try too. I really need to learn how to use TTS...

[Dreadmund]

39 minutes ago, Acid_Nine said:

Your insight to all this is appreciated, and sorry to hear that your struggling with it. The deepkin in particular is a harsh match up, and as a deepkin player I think  having the cathaller be 3” away from the front lines  While within a squad of dudes would help, but the mortal wounds the morrsarr guard has would be a problem still, so I have no answer. The cloud of midnight trick is particularly nasty, especially for us.

 

The second game sounds like it was a lot more fun, but I agree with others that you need a battalion to help give your list a little more oomph, especially with the defense buffs it provides. 

Ah I neglected to put it in my post but my list did have the Alarith Temple battalion. It definitely helped me to hold on a little longer. You're right the second game was way more fun. I think my key mistake was positioning my cathaller in the setup phase, if I had been more familiar with Kroak I would have put her out of range and the utility of her kit could have made a big difference. I think dawnriders would have made a big difference too - even if their damage would have been terrible against his list (no extra attacks on any of his units) their mobility and ability to threaten objectives would have made him play a bit more conservatively I think, instead of marching his whole army across the board in one big line. I think something can be said for them as highly mobile casters of Protection of Hysh too.

I think some people read my post as whining about the army. It's definitely not. Out the the three armies I play (nurgle, tzeentch, LRL) I think this is my favourite. I love the book and the interactions between kits. All the models are brilliant (if you ignore the stoneguard's preposterously top heavy cow-pope hats). But it's an army where you make a lot of decisions and it rewards tactical gameplay over smashing and bashing. I think it's important not to get discouraged by a few losses and with a few more games of practice I'm positive I'll start seeing better results.

Next list I think I'll try will be Iliatha with Dawnriders and wardens. Maybe even Eltharion. It's still early days for me, throwing things at the wall and seeing what sticks.