AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion

[ibel]

5 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said:

Maybe that trait with the non-winged ignore battleshock aura version as a backfield support piece?

Jes thats a Think i am thinking about.

Take him and set the DP between your 2 Blocks of 20 MdN CW with Banner and u have a realy scary Defence Blob.

But is it better than the Wings... ?!?! i Dont know.

But the model is very nize  

[Tizianolol]

Guys do you think archaon is only playable in host of everchosen? Speaking about competitive scenary!!:)

[ChaosUndivided]

They reall need to erreta the DP scroll so he always gets Talons attack in addition to whatever weapon you pick. Not that it will necessarily help all that much, he will sux just a lil less.

[Mutton]

1 hour ago, ChaosUndivided said:

They reall need to erreta the DP scroll so he always gets Talons attack in addition to whatever weapon you pick. Not that it will necessarily help all that much, he will sux just a lil less.

Oh man, I didn't realize he didn't get the talons in addition. I just assumed because it makes sense. Holy hell the DP sucks.

[Ravinsild]

16 minutes ago, Mutton said:

Oh man, I didn't realize he didn't get the talons in addition. I just assumed because it makes sense. Holy hell the DP sucks.

Yeah you pick one of either the Axe, Hellforged Sword OR Malefic Talons. They did make it so that it was 5 attacks which is 1 less than 3 axe, 3 talons, and brought the talons up to 8 attacks. Same for the Sword. I don’t think Daemon Prince were particularly good in the old book, (they were 215 points then too), and now they’re 195 with good defenses but still seems like I could get more utility from a Warshrine…

[Grimrock]

I don't know, I think there's definitely some tech there. Maybe not top tier, but they obviously have some place in despoilers. A khorne prince that has the monster/+2 wound trait being 14 wounds with monstrous actions and healing while in combat is super tanky. If they let you take the 'hero only' artefacts/traits then conqueror's crown would combo nicely since he's so hard to kill. Follow him around with a Nurgle prince that has the healing trait and you're pretty much invincible. Sure you probably won't kill a ton, but you should win the attrition game 99% of the time. 

Also interestingly people have been fawning over karkadraks and chaos lords on daemonic steeds, but the prince compares pretty well to them. He's 25 points more than a lord on steed but he's faster, has fly, has a better attack (no mount though so probably a wash), has more wounds, has a blanket 6+ ward instead of a 5+ only against mortals, and trades the strike first/chain with knights for a unique hero ability that can be pretty powerful in the right circumstance. Compared to the karkadrak he's definitely worse in combat, but again faster and more resilient for 25 points less. In both cases princes have access to much better command traits and, currently, the same artefacts. 

[Ravinsild]

8 minutes ago, Grimrock said:

I don't know, I think there's definitely some tech there. Maybe not top tier, but they obviously have some place in despoilers. A khorne prince that has the monster/+2 wound trait being 14 wounds with monstrous actions and healing while in combat is super tanky. If they let you take the 'hero only' artefacts/traits then conqueror's crown would combo nicely since he's so hard to kill. Follow him around with a Nurgle prince that has the healing trait and you're pretty much invincible. Sure you probably won't kill a ton, but you should win the attrition game 99% of the time. 

Also interestingly people have been fawning over karkadraks and chaos lords on daemonic steeds, but the prince compares pretty well to them. He's 25 points more than a lord on steed but he's faster, has fly, has a better attack (no mount though so probably a wash), has more wounds, has a blanket 6+ ward instead of a 5+ only against mortals, and trades the strike first/chain with knights for a unique hero ability that can be pretty powerful in the right circumstance. Compared to the karkadrak he's definitely worse in combat, but again faster and more resilient for 25 points less. In both cases princes have access to much better command traits and, currently, the same artefacts. 

I know I would like an excuse to run at least one of the now two I own. (One old model one new model). 

[Mutton]

56 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

Yeah you pick one of either the Axe, Hellforged Sword OR Malefic Talons. They did make it so that it was 5 attacks which is 1 less than 3 axe, 3 talons, and brought the talons up to 8 attacks. Same for the Sword. I don’t think Daemon Prince were particularly good in the old book, (they were 215 points then too), and now they’re 195 with good defenses but still seems like I could get more utility from a Warshrine…

SURELY this new version is a typo. Please let it be an Errata. On average, the current warscroll does 2-3 damage per combat. We can aspire to more than that for supposedly one of the most terrifying entities in the realms.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Mutton

[Ravinsild]

20 minutes ago, Mutton said:

SURELY this new version is a typo. Please let it be an Errata. On average, the current warscroll does 2-3 damage per combat. We can aspire to more than that for supposedly one of the most terrifying entities in the realms.

They came out with a day one FAQ and it didn’t address it. I think it’s working as intended. It’s just garbage for some reason. 

Edited November 11, 2022 by Ravinsild

[The Red King]

It's very odd considering the awesome new model too.

 

Maybe they saw Khorne princes being taken everywhere and decided to nerf him into the ground? I mean nevermind he was only being taken for bloodslick ground.

[ChaosUndivided]

There is already a whole new faq needed as @RocketPropelledGrenade pointed out last page. They can errata prince and bump up tzeentch roll then.

[Grimrock]

The thing is the claws 8 attacks are definitely intended for dual claws, I don't think they're just going to give those to the other profiles because then the 2 claw loadout wouldn't make any sense. If they're going to change anything it'll probably be the heroic actions or command traits/artefacts. 

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

I doubt the Daemon Prince will get dramatic changes. It is unfortunate in lore terms, but most foot heroes are like that, and the Prince is basically a glorified foot hero. It's there to provide battleshock immunity with the trophy rack and maybe the Nurgle heroic action or some heals with a command trait or something.

It's also not bad as an "out" when a fightier hero like a Karkadrak or even Manticore Lord gets really low wounds but gets an Eye of the Gods roll--send your beatsick into an enemy Hero, kill them but get wounded in the process, and hope you roll well enough to get 10 brand new wounds. Not reliable by any means, although a bit closer in Undivided.

I'm still deciding how I'm gonna build mine--with my current list building, I'm leaning towards wings since I don't take many units that care about battleshock (small numbers and high bravery) and I will only ever be using it as an EotG roll on my injured heroes anyways. Sword is the coolest looking weapon, but I think axe is probably better, especially if it turns out my Idolator Lord can keep Curse after ascending (since both proc on 6's to hit, and therefore are mutually exclusive). I will probably go sword anyways, just like I did on my VLoZD for soulblight--sweet modeling options win out for me.

[Rors]

I did play around with a cabalist list with an undivided claws DP with tome (flaming weapon) and the roll on eye of gods spell, and the extra hero action. Add purple sun for rend

Basically, you use the eye roll hero action buff on him while within 3 of another hero using the roll 3 for spells.

You just stack buffs (rend preferably) on the DP. 

Vortex beasts and iron golems hold. By turn three your DP is probably somewhat of a blender...

But the amount of effort it takes seems way too much compared to just taking more efficient units and sometimes it won't even work.

I'll probably try it a few times on TTS to see if I can get any milage out of it though.

[Ravinsild]

How do you all feel about Darkoath Savagers and the Darkoath Heroes? 
 

They’ve always been interesting to me and I think the could be useful for chaff/screens and objectives grabbing and might stick around for a little bit if you manage to get their 5+ ward save. Perhaps backed by a Daemon Prince with Trophy Rack they may stick around even longer. 
 

Ultimately though I find my lists in an Awkward spot. Usually something like 

Chaos Lord on Karkadrak or Daemonic Mount Mark of Khorne

chaos Lord on foot mark of Khorne 

Chaos Sorcerer Lord Mark of Undivided or Tzeentch 

20 chaos warriors mark of Nurgle probably 

10 Chaos Knights marks of Khorne 

10 Chaos Chosen Mark of Khorne

then random points left like 165 or whatever and it’s like.. not enough for a DP, not enough for a Warshrine… maybe another Khorne Hero like Aspiring Deathbringer… but I really am trying to avoid cultists because they don’t match the Aesthetic, they get nothing from Hosts of the Everchosen (and I will not run Ravagers for 200 or so points out of 2000…) and random little lists I configure seem to keep running into the same problem. 
 

As much as I want to run a chaos lord on manticore because I want a big beautiful centerpiece Beatstick hero to match my Ironjawz Megaboss on Maw-Krusha I can’t seem to find any room for him anywhere. I’m trying to make a rock solid aesthetically themed list and about the only other cultists I’m considering are Darkoath because they look like what Marauders probably should look like if they got a new kit. 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Ravinsild

[Rors]

I find that in Australia, $98 dollars for a unit worth 100 points is a hard sell. That said I own 10 (birthday present) and plan on getting 10 more when I find files to print them.

As a unit, they're straight up inferior to serpent fang unless they get the 5+ ward.

Still, they're a screen that can also help against high armor and they're better than fang specifically against 6+ or worse..

I plan on running mine with the sigil as a screen, unless the opponent is rocking something with a 2+ save, then the warriors flip role and become the screen.

As a screen with sigil they just die but then you get to buff a bunch of your units. They also serve as damage dealers when we need mortals and sometimes they can steal an objective, they'll still probably just die though. I've considered making them hunters too as it makes them great against low save troops with damage 3 attacks. Makes it an interesting unit where they really want to hit great armor or terrible armor and suck vs 4+.

In the next season they'll be better than fang when reinforced because they have multiple damage two models in the uni that you can stick in the front. At the moment the weight of attacks from fang with two ranks is better.

Edited November 12, 2022 by Rors

[JackStreicher]

15 hours ago, Grimrock said:

I don't know, I think there's definitely some tech there. Maybe not top tier, but they obviously have some place in despoilers. A khorne prince that has the monster/+2 wound trait being 14 wounds with monstrous actions and healing while in combat is super tanky. If they let you take the 'hero only' artefacts/traits then conqueror's crown would combo nicely since he's so hard to kill. Follow him around with a Nurgle prince that has the healing trait and you're pretty much invincible. Sure you probably won't kill a ton, but you should win the attrition game 99% of the time. 

Also interestingly people have been fawning over karkadraks and chaos lords on daemonic steeds, but the prince compares pretty well to them. He's 25 points more than a lord on steed but he's faster, has fly, has a better attack (no mount though so probably a wash), has more wounds, has a blanket 6+ ward instead of a 5+ only against mortals, and trades the strike first/chain with knights for a unique hero ability that can be pretty powerful in the right circumstance. Compared to the karkadrak he's definitely worse in combat, but again faster and more resilient for 25 points less. In both cases princes have access to much better command traits and, currently, the same artefacts. 

True, but it’s not the point. He is very different to his Lore. This guy should punch twice as hard as a normal chaos Lord while flinging magic and mayhem. The 40K Warscroll is a hundred times more potent than this one.

It feels to me like the DP is suffering from the Vampire Lord syndrome: Should be a powerful being, surpassing any mortal - but that was scrapped in fervor of being a support hero with lackluster melee capabilities.

[Grimrock]

On 11/11/2022 at 4:06 AM, Tizianolol said:

Guys do you think archaon is only playable in host of everchosen? Speaking about competitive scenary!!:)

Hard to say. He got a fair bit more resilient, but he lost a few things around him that pushed him over the top (oracular vision, daemonic power, and the chaos lord fight twice all got nerfed/removed). His turn command ability was also nerfed to once per game and is no longer secret and he lost his eye of sheerian ability for it. Marks also got weaker for him as he was always the general so he always had the full buff. Also lost the bonus command point for some reason. Overall I think it he's definitely gotten weaker, but it remains to be seen if he'll be worth keeping around or not.

Personally I'm not overly excited to try him out. Losing most of his interesting/unique tech just makes him seem... kinda boring honestly. Pretty much every change he got was a nerf other than the wounds/ward. He'll be super hard to kill, but his offensive power will suffer as he's prone to whiffing and not doing enough damage without the re-rolls. If you have a good game where you roll well he'll still feel as good as before, but a couple 1's and you'll really start to wonder why you paid 860 points for him.

 

10 hours ago, Rors said:

I did play around with a cabalist list with an undivided claws DP with tome (flaming weapon) and the roll on eye of gods spell, and the extra hero action. Add purple sun for rend

I like the idea of stacking as much as you can into those 8 attacks, but I don't think the Eye of The Gods parts work on him. The Chaotic Conduit spell requires that the target have the EYE OF THE GODS keyword and the prince doesn't have it. Unfortunately the undivided mark only gives it to mortal and ogroid units. 

 

6 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

True, but it’s not the point. He is very different to his Lore. This guy should punch twice as hard as a normal chaos Lord while flinging magic and mayhem. The 40K Warscroll is a hundred times more potent than this one.

It feels to me like the DP is suffering from the Vampire Lord syndrome: Should be a powerful being, surpassing any mortal - but that was scrapped in fervor of being a support hero with lackluster melee capabilities.

Yeah GW seems to have an aversion to making good combat characters in AoS. I tried a daemons army out the other day and ran a daemon prince not expecting much but he absolutely slapped. If you want the most egregious example I can think of look no further than Be'Lakor. In 40k he's an absolute terror, -1 to wound, -1 damage, no rerolling to hit, buffs for units, excellent spells, and his weapon can be either ap -4 damage d3+3 with no invlunerable saves or make twice as many attacks at ap -3 damage 1. Be'lakor in AoS is just such a disappointment combat wise. Better now than he was at the tail end of 2nd edition due to all out attack, but his overall damage output is really depressing. I would have much rather they nerfed/got rid of The Dark Master and leaned more into giving him a good profile. 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Grimrock

[Ravinsild]

9 hours ago, Rors said:

I find that in Australia, $98 dollars for a unit worth 100 points is a hard sell. That said I own 10 (birthday present) and plan on getting 10 more when I find files to print them.

As a unit, they're straight up inferior to serpent fang unless they get the 5+ ward.

Still, they're a screen that can also help against high armor and they're better than fang specifically against 6+ or worse..

I plan on running mine with the sigil as a screen, unless the opponent is rocking something with a 2+ save, then the warriors flip role and become the screen.

As a screen with sigil they just die but then you get to buff a bunch of your units. They also serve as damage dealers when we need mortals and sometimes they can steal an objective, they'll still probably just die though. I've considered making them hunters too as it makes them great against low save troops with damage 3 attacks. Makes it an interesting unit where they really want to hit great armor or terrible armor and suck vs 4+.

In the next season they'll be better than fang when reinforced because they have multiple damage two models in the uni that you can stick in the front. At the moment the weight of attacks from fang with two ranks is better.

Otoh I think the snake people look stupid therefore I don’t like them and I think the literal Conan looking guy is the best thing since sliced bread so for me visuals are also a heavy consideration. Haha.

[ChaosUndivided]

In the one game i played so far i tried buff stacking undivided (with conduit) varanguard but twice i rolled double ones on that 3 d6 spell cast, first time the manticore ate 4 wounds and the second completely nuked my own foot sorc. My rolls where all pretty horrible so i dunno what to make of that but im not convinced thats the way to go. It did make me consider adding mark of tzeentch to foot wiz so he gets some kinda mortal wound save tho.

Im having a hard time figuring out some kinda cultist list i think there might be some play there with belakore in legions but it strikes me as very strange the splinter fangs attack profile is so much better than all other cultist. I woulda liked to see more variations throughout the cultist stat blocks.

@Ravinsild i think you got a good start to core army but the manticore is a far cry from the mawcrusher.

Edited November 12, 2022 by ChaosUndivided
Clarity.

[SpiritofHokuto]

10 hours ago, Rors said:

I find that in Australia, $98 dollars for a unit worth 100 points is a hard sell. That said I own 10 (birthday present) and plan on getting 10 more when I find files to print them.

As a unit, they're straight up inferior to serpent fang unless they get the 5+ ward.

Still, they're a screen that can also help against high armor and they're better than fang specifically against 6+ or worse..

I plan on running mine with the sigil as a screen, unless the opponent is rocking something with a 2+ save, then the warriors flip role and become the screen.

As a screen with sigil they just die but then you get to buff a bunch of your units. They also serve as damage dealers when we need mortals and sometimes they can steal an objective, they'll still probably just die though. I've considered making them hunters too as it makes them great against low save troops with damage 3 attacks. Makes it an interesting unit where they really want to hit great armor or terrible armor and suck vs 4+.

In the next season they'll be better than fang when reinforced because they have multiple damage two models in the uni that you can stick in the front. At the moment the weight of attacks from fang with two ranks is better.

The thing is that 50% of the Splintered Fang are on 25mm bases. So it won't be massively hard for them to fight in two ranks after the season changes.

[Bayul]

12 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

then random points left like 165 or whatever and it’s like.. not enough for a DP, not enough for a Warshrine… maybe another Khorne Hero like Aspiring Deathbringer… but I really am trying to avoid cultists because they don’t match the Aesthetic, they get nothing from Hosts of the Everchosen (and I will not run Ravagers for 200 or so points out of 2000…) and random little lists I configure seem to keep running into the same problem. 

Replace the generic Chaos Lord on Foot with a Bloodsecrator? He is heavy armored and buffs KHORNE units.

[Ravinsild]

1 hour ago, Bayul said:

Replace the generic Chaos Lord on Foot with a Bloodsecrator? He is heavy armored and buffs KHORNE units.

Well I could take a Bloodsecrator and him because I have 165 points spare, then maybe the Eightfold Point Endless spell. It just interferes with my wizards but I do have a Bloodsecrator on the sprue since I got a brand new SC Bloodbound box in a trade. 

[Ravinsild]

Yooooooo I got my pre-order box I am so hype!!!!

[Rors]

6 hours ago, Grimrock said:

I like the idea of stacking as much as you can into those 8 attacks, but I don't think the Eye of The Gods parts work on him. The Chaotic Conduit spell requires that the target have the EYE OF THE GODS keyword and the prince doesn't have it. Unfortunately the undivided mark only gives it to mortal and ogroid units.

Ohhh, damn, yeah... I missed that bit with undivided key word. I thought giving him the mark would unlock eye of gods