AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion

[JackOfBlades]

10 hours ago, Holy_Diver said:

I how the rules pretty well, but the doubt rise up when a warscroll say "this model knows all the spell from...etc", without specifying if it must be part of a DoT army for this. So We need a FAQ for this, because RAW it works.

ps: and abilities always overwrite general rules.

I checked the new warscroll and saw that they now know all the spells; my bad. I was looking at the old warscroll.

In light of this i agree with you - RAW it works since it's a warscroll ability, and so the blue scribes do know those spells when taken as an ally, but could use a FAQ.

Edited October 20, 2022 by JackOfBlades

[JackStreicher]

Is there any army building tool on the web that has already been updated with the leaked points?

[Frowny]

@idn0971 @Lord Krungharr i don't think you should move on chaff or lists or purchases- there is an absolute ton of stuff we haven't seen yet, almost all the chaff, most of the monsters, possibly prayers. Many of the warcry warbands might get new or updated scrolls. Something like the start collecting seems like a good safe investment to have something to assemble but beyond that I'd wait for the actual battletome 

[ChaosUndivided]

@idn0971 Chosen with their 5 inch move and no ward of any kind will be dead or close to it by the time they reach intended target. I wouldn't call that "very consistent." There is a lot of bad match ups there, anything with mortal wound output at range basically creating a rock, paper, scissor scenario where your toast if the opponent has the rock to your scissors. 

Varanguard with a 4+ mortal save, not 5 or 6, and 10 inch move are way more versatile and can get the job done. Never do i take spears always ensorcelled weapons. The fact they can all make it to target alive and do a full powered double attack will chew thru monster profiles by sheer weight of dice. This isnt theory crafting its what they tend to do more often than not.

[JackStreicher]

If I had to make a prediction I‘d guess most chaos units will eventually become cheaper, I feel line they might be a little too costly at the moment

[Frowny]

I think the biggest winners are the knights. While not as sturdy as warriors, they are still pretty sturdy, and while not as killy as chosen, they are still pretty killy. A nice balance in the middle, without over investing in one direction. Couple with a good move value, the option to take a banner if desired, and the ability to fight in 2 Ranks (unlike varanguard) for a bigger unit i think will make them versatile staples.

They also carry buffs really well, be it the khorne mark (since they are likely to be charging), the slaanesh mark (since with run+ charge and their move they are very likely to get turn 1 charges) or the Nurgle banner +mystic shield, to stuff the opponent in their deployment zone with 30 wound 2+ save ignoring rend 1 and mw resistant brick wall from the start of the game.

By extension, knights of the empty throne may be solid, since then you don't need slaanesh mark to get the T1 charge reliably.

[idn0971]

@ChaosUndivided While I agree that chosen are slower, they can still get a 6+ ward from multiple sources in the book and especially important can get run and charge and +1 to run and charge from being slaanesh marked. This allows them to be much more mobile then their profile initially suggests. They also can be rallied to bring back models on a 4+ if they are being killed from mortal wounds shooting as long as they do not completely die which is tough to do with just shooting in hosts of the everchosen.

Edited October 20, 2022 by idn0971

[Causalis]

Had a friendly match against KO today and got to test the new rules. 

My List:

Spoiler

Lord on Kakadrak, Khorne, General (Death Dealer), Oppressor Helmet
Chaos Sorcerer. Undivided, Arcane Tome
Centaurion Marshal, Undivided
Chaos Lord, Khorne

10x Warriors, Nurgle + Banner
10x Warriors, Nurgle
10x Knights, Khorne + Banner
5x Chosen, Khorne (Retinue)
3x Theridons, Khorne
1x Chariot, Slaanesh
10x Darkoath Savagers, Undivided

He had first turn and killed half of my Knights, which is actually quite "underwhelming" for him, since he shot at them with the Ironclad, 2 Gunhaulers and 10 Thunderers. They were also the Grudge-target AND in range of the Purple Sun (Spell in a bottle). 

My turn I only rallied one Knight even though I played HotE. I knew he would unleash hell with his Ironclad so I sacrificed my Kakadrak who ate his overwatch + Last Word usage. My Knights got their charge of and my Chosen charged a Gunhauler. Knights hammered the Ironclad with 14 successful wound-rolls and he failed a good amount, leaving it with only 4 wounds left. My Chosen killed the Gunhauler and used their strike-twice ability to finish off the Ironclad. 

At that point the game was already over. I had the rest of my units on all 3 objectives and his biggest threat was neutralized. 

I might have to experiment with different marks on the Chosen. Tzeentch's 4+ ward against shooting would be extremely potent on them since they are so slow and have no ward inately. Or Slaanesh might be a good choice to get them into combat faster.

[JackStreicher]

1 hour ago, Causalis said:

Had a friendly match against KO today and got to test the new rules. 

My List:

  Hide contents

Lord on Kakadrak, Khorne, General (Death Dealer), Oppressor Helmet
Chaos Sorcerer. Undivided, Arcane Tome
Centaurion Marshal, Undivided
Chaos Lord, Khorne

10x Warriors, Nurgle + Banner
10x Warriors, Nurgle
10x Knights, Khorne + Banner
5x Chosen, Khorne (Retinue)
3x Theridons, Khorne
1x Chariot, Slaanesh
10x Darkoath Savagers, Undivided

He had first turn and killed half of my Knights, which is actually quite "underwhelming" for him, since he shot at them with the Ironclad, 2 Gunhaulers and 10 Thunderers. They were also the Grudge-target AND in range of the Purple Sun (Spell in a bottle). 

My turn I only rallied one Knight even though I played HotE. I knew he would unleash hell with his Ironclad so I sacrificed my Kakadrak who ate his overwatch + Last Word usage. My Knights got their charge of and my Chosen charged a Gunhauler. Knights hammered the Ironclad with 14 successful wound-rolls and he failed a good amount, leaving it with only 4 wounds left. My Chosen killed the Gunhauler and used their strike-twice ability to finish off the Ironclad. 

At that point the game was already over. I had the rest of my units on all 3 objectives and his biggest threat was neutralized. 

I might have to experiment with different marks on the Chosen. Tzeentch's 4+ ward against shooting would be extremely potent on them since they are so slow and have no ward inately. Or Slaanesh might be a good choice to get them into combat faster.

Great, now I want to play mine as well though I don't play AoS anymore X_x

[ChaosUndivided]

Varanguard have access to all the same move shenanigans tho. The 6+ ward is horrible odds and is easy to just strait flub the roll. If i was gonna give anyone a banner its going to reinforced knights first, warriors next.

I love the new Chosen models, i want to get some, and will definitely use them, but im not gonna invest in more than 1 unit. Their shiney new hotness will wear off when people figure out what targets to prioritize.

Without grasping plate i dont see running reinforced Varanguard. The whole rally and 4+ does benefit them the most tho and if my wizard can pluck them out of a losing fight to get a rally in im gonna try it.

[Rors]

There's multiple ways to get more room out of chosen though. I'm not entirely sold on them as they are expensive foot sloggers but you could have one unit run 6 and charge and another teleport 9 up before it moves. In legion you can swap around buffs to get what you need.

I think there's other units I'd rather do that with but one of the strengths in this book is that you the synergies are so customizable

[ChaosUndivided]

There is more threats now and the freedom to mix up buffs definitely helps. No aura of chaos is a huge relief. I wont feel like im shooting myself in the foot if i only take 3 heroes.

Im gonna miss ravagers tho, that was fun to play and empty throne feels gutted. They dont get to pick a command trait? Can someone else get it? Run + charge on all mounts does sound good tho.

Give someone priest trait and they get to toss curses and heals around? Yes please.

[Rors]

5 hours ago, ChaosUndivided said:

There is more threats now and the freedom to mix up buffs definitely helps. No aura of chaos is a huge relief. I wont feel like im shooting myself in the foot if i only take 3 heroes.

Im gonna miss ravagers tho, that was fun to play and empty throne feels gutted. They dont get to pick a command trait? Can someone else get it? Run + charge on all mounts does sound good tho.

Give someone priest trait and they get to toss curses and heals around? Yes please.

Run and charge is great but I'd always take a regular hero for my general in empty throne for the artifact and command trait. Given the mounted heros buff knights and not varangaurd as well, I'm not even sure I'd go heavy on varangaurd in empty throne.

[Beliman]

KOs (with Gotrek) vs Knights of the Empty Throne (6+3 varaguard) using the new book (I wasn't playing, just looking and talking).
The game was about doing edgy plays to see what the new profiles could do. Some highlights:

• Varanguard charged Gotrek, he survived and then removed the entire Varanguard (unit of 6) from the table.
• Knights were awesome, they removed some backfield units, took some objectives and could won the game. 
• The crown artefact that don't let enemies contest objectives is really, really powerful. With a retinue of dudes, a lord of chaos could take and maintain an objectives for about 5 turns (ironclad+20arkanauts shooting nonestop). Dice were a bit tricky, but it is what it is...
• Daemonic power is so swingy, if you play vs an army without unbinds, the whole army feels REALLY powerful. Vs armies that have just a few bonus vs unbinds, the army will feel completely diferent.
• Lord of Chaos with -4 rend??? 
• Even after losing 580 on the second turn, the game was not decided until turn 4, initiative roll. The army looks really, really fun to play.

There are some things that I don't like btw:

• They need an ability to disable wards, and that's why I think that a Daemon prince of nurgle will be an auto-take. That ability should be a spell, and not just for one warscroll.
• Warp Reality is really powerful but it has some restrictions (tzeentch mage and tzeentch unit) that I really don't like. I prefer something easier to accomplish but not as strong (movement after TP).
• Better artifacts for blender-heroes. I think that this army has so much utility on their heroes that they lost a bit their identity. Units are really good but...
• ...EXPENSIVE!!!

Edited October 21, 2022 by Beliman

[Causalis]

@Beliman How does the Chaos Lord get -4 Rend??? 😮

And how did he hold an objective that long against shooting? He's only 6 wounds and a 3+ Save without any ward save. Haven't the KO shot him? 

[Boar]

2 hours ago, Causalis said:

@Beliman How does the Chaos Lord get -4 Rend??? 😮

And how did he hold an objective that long against shooting? He's only 6 wounds and a 3+ Save without any ward save. Haven't the KO shot him? 

I would assume that rend was aquired from Eye of the Gods, as for surviving he can pass wounds onto his retinue on 3+

[Beliman]

Just now, Boar said:

I would assume that rend was aquired from Eye of the Gods, as for surviving he can pass wounds onto his retinue on 3+

This, and his retinue had an AoE that worsen the rend of all attacks near him (12" I believe).

Without being a deathstar, it was enough to take all the shooting from an Ironclad, 20 arkanauts and 1 gunhauler AND still survive AND still take the points.

[ChaosUndivided]

Yeah helm of oppressor on the lord on foot with 10 or 20 man warrior retinue who carries the nurgle banner. Seems like a solid choice. I imagine they cast chaotic conduit once or twice and maybe used the new hero action.

[Causalis]

But the Nurgle banner only worsens the Rend of melee weapons... And to get -4 Rend he would have to get the #8 result twice on the EotG table. Quite lucky I would say! 

[Beliman]

56 minutes ago, Causalis said:

But the Nurgle banner only worsens the Rend of melee weapons... And to get -4 Rend he would have to get the #8 result twice on the EotG table. Quite lucky I would say! 

Oooopss! For whatever reason, it seems that we don't know how to read the rules. It wouldn't change the outcome of that side of the table but pretty sure that a few warriors would have been death (ships only count as 2 for whatever reason and everything else can't contest the objective unless the Lord is killed, something that was impossible to do).

About the Eye of the Gods, yep, that was in the first 3 turns!!

Take in mind that the first 3 turns, both players tried to win the other side of the table in a big brawl with vanguards (3+6), gotrek, knights, mage lord, figatte, 1 gunhauler and an Ironclad and Purle sun (early turns). After using all once per battle abilities/artifacts, and Gotrek took at least one point and knights the other and the ironclad moved to the other side of the table, everything else was death.

[Boar]

If someone is interested, Miscast chance while Drawing on Power is roughly 7,4% (normal one is 2,8%).

For succesive cast attempts in same turn chances to not miscast are as follows:

 

Also Varanguard can have mixed weapons actually, if you are ****** that likes to roll different profiles that is.

This site can be useful if you are admant on knowing damage of mixed units -> https://aos-statshammer.herokuapp.com/

[Ratling]

Painted up a tzeenchian manticore

[Rors]

Just want to point out that StD Tzentch players can warp reality through a spell portal for 18+9+movement.

[Agent of Chaos]

How great is this! Chaos Warriors and Knights is what got me into Warhammer 25 years ago and finally in Age of Sigmar they are reclaiming much of their former power. Lists that jump out at you are knight/warrior heavy host of the everchosen or empty throne and will definitely be giving those a run. However with the models I have (daemon princes and manticores) Im also wondering if a Despoilers list has merit, at least for more casual games.

All Daemon Princes get a command trait however it doesnt say your general has to be a DP so one of the manticores can be the general and get a trait as well. If Im being picky its a shame that slaves still dont appear to get mount traits however Im very happy manticores no longer have damage tables so its all good. I'm steering clear of the "ruinous overlords" traits for the DP's as I expect those to be FAQ'ed to be mortal (and maybe Ogroid) heroes only as that appears to be the intent. Originally I was trying to work 4 daemon princes (one of each god) into the list but I just dont see the 4th one doing much, so below is where I landed and would love to hear people's thoughts;

Daemon Prince (Nurgle), wings, axe - Trait: Bolstered by Chaos 195 (this 14 wound literal monster is harder to kill thanks to nurgle which suits him given he wants to be amongst the action to turn off wards)

Daemon Prince (Tzeentch), trophy rack, axe - Trait: Not to be Denied 195 (this guy will always be able to use his heroic action and give me another spell cast option in my turn, and offers utility in my opponent's turn. With his battleshock immunity aura he will act as support in the backfield)

Daemon Prince (Slaanesh), wings, axe - Trait: Radiance of Dark Glory 195 (a healing beacon never hurts. tossed up between slaanesh/khorne marks for this guy but I landed on the extra speed having more utility. 

Sorcerer on Manticore (tzeentch), General - Trait: Arch Sorcerer, Artefact: Arcane Tome 265 (a real utility sorcerer who will make good use of Draw on Power heroic action. I went with tzeentch for the extra spell option and he and the tzeentch DP can slingshot each other if needed.)

Lord on Manticore (khorne) - Artefact: Helm of the Oppressor 270 (havnt seen the warscroll for this guy but his points are the same so hes at least decent, and he gets the bonus 2 wounds from despoilers. The artefact is amazing so hoping his warscroll has improved)

Lord on Daemonic Mount (khorne) - Artefact: Conquerors Crown 170 (artefact is amazing and he pairs well with the knights)

10 x Chaos Warriors (nurgle) - Eroding Icon banner 220

8 x Iron Golems (undivided) 100

5 x chaos knights (khorne) 230

Furies 90

Spawn 70

Total = 2000 points

3 x DP plus Furies are in a warlord battalion, the other heroes and spawn are in a second warlord battalion (hence 3 artefacts) and the warriors, golems and knights are in expert conquerors.

I reckon this list could be a lot of fun without being oppressive for my opponents 🙂

[Boar]

8 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said:

3 x DP plus Furies are in a warlord battalion

DP have 10 wounds so they go in Commander battalion slot, so this unfortunately does not work