Agent of Chaos Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 (edited) On 3/8/2021 at 2:10 AM, Archion89 said: Any thoughts on making the best out of this list? I don’t plan on purchasing anything else to control the pile so I know it could use a Warshrine but that’ll be later. I think the list is looking pretty good but some things you might consider are: -the bloodsecrator will make your sorcerer reroll casts. If extra attacks are really important you could look at an Aspiring Deathbringer (needs CP though) or a unit of Wrathmongers (will need to find some extra points ). -a good alternative ally would be a bloodstoker. Great to use on chariots as it's +6" when they run and charge and +3" to their charge roll for greater chance of mortal wounds. The reroll wounds is a nice bonus and goes well on knights too. -As you are always looking for the charge, consider running at least one unit of knights with glaives. - you might consider running this as an Idolators legion as you can upgrade one of the chariots in the battalion to an Idolator Lord for an extra khorne aura and easy 2+ prayer for a unit to reroll hits (great on knights with glaives). That also means you can spend your CP on giving +1 to hit/reroll charges to knights and chariots. Edited March 8, 2021 by Agent of Chaos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rors Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 Belakor will definitely get a new warscroll and points with his new model. What would people like to see? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charleston Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 9 minutes ago, Rors said: Belakor will definitely get a new warscroll and points with his new model. What would people like to see? Dmg3 -2 Rend Profile would be the juiciest StD Weapon Profile I guess Some sort of "Sacrifice a Model, to X" rule to make the base less weird More Wounds Maybe some more bravery affecting rules? Would fit thematically. Best imaginable would be "Positive Bravery modifiers as well as rules that allow units to automatically pass bravery checks don´t apply within 12/18" of Belakor" whioh would make bravery bombs finally valid. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rors Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 I really like all of those. I really hope he keeps the trap a unit rule he has too. 2 hours ago, Charleston said: Maybe some more bravery affecting rules? Would fit thematically. Best imaginable would be "Positive Bravery modifiers as well as rules that allow units to automatically pass bravery checks don´t apply within 12/18" of Belakor" whioh would make bravery bombs finally valid. It would be great to see ld based tactics become valid. Combine that with his heals from models fleeing and maybe something like "for every unit from which an enemy model flees within 12 of Belakor, add 1 to casting rolls until end of next hero phase" would be sweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldarain Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 (edited) I really like the idea of bravery bomb builds working but I'd rather it be a core rules change over GW's propensity to bolt on exceptions and overruling abilities. Edited March 9, 2021 by Eldarain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charleston Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Eldarain said: I really like the idea of bravery bomb builds working but I'd rather it be a core rules change over GW's propensity to bolt on exceptions and overruling abilities. This would be neat for 3.0, that's right Edited March 9, 2021 by Charleston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dankboss Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 I think his Blade of Shadows should actually be the Blade of Shadows, like 40k's version. 6 attacks 3s 3s -3/-4 3 damage 12 wounds with a 4+ ethereal and a 5++ ward. His disruption ability should be reworked due to NPE to something like once per turn pick an enemy unit, on a 2+ its movement is halved. With the same unit not being chosen twice. That would spread its impact across the game and not be an auto-win vs certain armies that rely on a big model. I'd reckon it'd actually be more powerful than before overall. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archion89 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 On 3/8/2021 at 6:06 PM, Agent of Chaos said: I think the list is looking pretty good but some things you might consider are: -the bloodsecrator will make your sorcerer reroll casts. If extra attacks are really important you could look at an Aspiring Deathbringer (needs CP though) or a unit of Wrathmongers (will need to find some extra points ). -a good alternative ally would be a bloodstoker. Great to use on chariots as it's +6" when they run and charge and +3" to their charge roll for greater chance of mortal wounds. The reroll wounds is a nice bonus and goes well on knights too. -As you are always looking for the charge, consider running at least one unit of knights with glaives. - you might consider running this as an Idolators legion as you can upgrade one of the chariots in the battalion to an Idolator Lord for an extra khorne aura and easy 2+ prayer for a unit to reroll hits (great on knights with glaives). That also means you can spend your CP on giving +1 to hit/reroll charges to knights and chariots. Thanks, I've been thinking on this and I've drawn up a new list which had me thinking on how to best fill up all the points using all what I have. Here it is: Idolators, Ulgu Realm Leaders Khorne Idolator Lord on Chaos Chariot General: Smite the Unbeliever Artefact: Tricksters’ Foil Khorne Chaos Lord on Karkadrak Khorne Chaos Lord on Demonic Mount Khorne Chaos Lord Aspiring Deathbringer Tzeentch Chaos Sorcerer Lord Spell: Mask of Darkness Battleline 5 Khorne Chaos Knights with ensorcelled weapons 5 Khorne Chaos Knights with ensorcelled weapons 1 Khorne Chaos Chariot with Greatblade 1 Khorne Chaos Chariot with Greatblade 15 Khorne Chaos Warriors with shields 20 Khorne Marauders with axes and shields Battalion: Ruinbringer Warband Other: Extra Command Point 135 Wounds 2000/2000 points I wasn't sure on giving up the bloodsecrator for one sorcerer but moving to Idolators does free up a lot of the CP needed to make it all work. My knights already are built so I don't have any with the glaives/lances to slot in just yet. I do wish there was another realm artefact or anything to select to fill it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent of Chaos Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 @Archion89 looks great! It does hurt taking a battalion and not being able to grab another artifact however Ive used that trait/artifact combo on my khorne Idolator Lord and he can put in some work. Between all the Lords and Deathbringer you will still be CP hungry so will be about using them at the right time. Would be very interested to hear how you go with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrethegreat Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 (edited) I'm a new STD player and I wanted to know what units or spells I should take when playing against Flesh eater courts units? Edited March 10, 2021 by Andrethegreat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dankboss Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Andrethegreat said: I'm a new STD player and I wanted to know what units or spells I should take when playing against Flesh eater courts units? I would take Heroes who have ward saves, to mitigate the likes of Terrorgheists a bit. Chaos Warriors may be useful since they have one too, although if you're new I'd aim for a more well rounded all-comers list, not just tailoring to one specific army. I would say Be'lakor would be a great choice to turn off Terrorgheists, but he's due for a new model and an update so best to hold off for now. Instead, a Khorne Daemon Prince would be good to reduce the chances of them getting into combat with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 2 hours ago, Andrethegreat said: I'm a new STD player and I wanted to know what units or spells I should take when playing against Flesh eater courts units? Chaos Warriors, Chaos Knights and everything that can ignore mortal wounds. S2D are actually pretty good vs FeC since FeC lack high armour. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graywater Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 2 hours ago, Andrethegreat said: I'm a new STD player and I wanted to know what units or spells I should take when playing against Flesh eater courts units? My shout is to the khorne daemon prince to stop them from running or charging as effectively. id suggest not tailoring to a certain build/list though. What may be good against FEC may not hold up in a typical build/against typical opponents and vice versa. Be'lakor is always super useful, through he is certainly getting new rules shortly with his new model. Warshrines are great for their prayers and DPR bubble, sorcerers for the reroll saves ability and spell to reroll hit and wounds. Combine sorcerors with the marauders and the mask of darkness spell for a tactical insertion force. You dont need to tailor specifically against a particular opponent to have a list that will do well against them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archion89 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 16 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said: @Archion89 looks great! It does hurt taking a battalion and not being able to grab another artifact however Ive used that trait/artifact combo on my khorne Idolator Lord and he can put in some work. Between all the Lords and Deathbringer you will still be CP hungry so will be about using them at the right time. Would be very interested to hear how you go with it. Thanks! I feel the CL on DM maybe redundant so he may be first up for replacement. I could drop him and the CP to fund a Khorne Daemon Prince if I pick one up. Alternatively, I could slow in a second sorcerer and have 110 pts to fit something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrethegreat Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Graywater said: My shout is to the khorne daemon prince to stop them from running or charging as effectively. id suggest not tailoring to a certain build/list though. What may be good against FEC may not hold up in a typical build/against typical opponents and vice versa. Be'lakor is always super useful, through he is certainly getting new rules shortly with his new model. Warshrines are great for their prayers and DPR bubble, sorcerers for the reroll saves ability and spell to reroll hit and wounds. Combine sorcerors with the marauders and the mask of darkness spell for a tactical insertion force. You dont need to tailor specifically against a particular opponent to have a list that will do well against them. 2 hours ago, JackStreicher said: Chaos Warriors, Chaos Knights and everything that can ignore mortal wounds. S2D are actually pretty good vs FeC since FeC lack high armour. 2 hours ago, JackStreicher said: Chaos Warriors, Chaos Knights and everything that can ignore mortal wounds. S2D are actually pretty good vs FeC since FeC lack high armour. 3 hours ago, Dankboss said: I would take Heroes who have ward saves, to mitigate the likes of Terrorgheists a bit. Chaos Warriors may be useful since they have one too, although if you're new I'd aim for a more well rounded all-comers list, not just tailoring to one specific army. I would say Be'lakor would be a great choice to turn off Terrorgheists, but he's due for a new model and an update so best to hold off for now. Instead, a Khorne Daemon Prince would be good to reduce the chances of them getting into combat with you. Thanks for every ones feedback, Here is 2 lists that I would like to try out, I don't have a Daemon prince, would be nice, but I have to fight with the army that I have. list #1 Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness- Damned Legion: RavagersLeadersChaos Lord on Karkadrak (230)- General- Command Trait: Bolstered by Hate- Artefact: Mark of the High-favoured- Mark of Chaos: Undivided- Ravagers Command Trait: Bolstered by HateChaos Sorcerer Lord (110)- Artefact: Hellfire Sword- Mark of Chaos: Undivided- Spell: Binding Damnation- Ravagers Command Trait: Master of DeceptionDarkoath Warqueen (90)- Ravagers Command Trait: Eternal VendettaTheddra Skull-Scryer (70)- Spell: Whispers of Chaos- Ravagers Command Trait: Unquestioned ResolveBattleline10 x Chaos Warriors (180)- Hand Weapon & Shield- Mark of Chaos: Undivided10 x Chaos Warriors (180)- Hand Weapon & Shield- Mark of Chaos: Undivided5 x Chaos Knights (160)- Cursed Lance- Mark of Chaos: Undivided10 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (220)- Javelin & Shield- Mark of Chaos: UndividedUnits4 x Khagra's Ravagers (125)- Spell: Mask of Darkness18 x Untamed Beasts (140)5 x Godsworn Hunt (60)6 x Furies (100)6 x Raptoryx (90)BattalionsGodsworn Champions of Ruin (180)Endless Spells / Terrain / CPsExtra Command Point (50)Total: 1985 / 2000Extra Command Points: 2Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 154 list #2 Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness- Damned Legion: RavagersLeadersChaos Lord on Karkadrak (230)- General- Command Trait: Bolstered by Hate- Artefact: Mark of the High-favoured- Mark of Chaos: Undivided- Ravagers Command Trait: Bolstered by HateChaos Sorcerer Lord (110)- Artefact: Hellfire Sword- Mark of Chaos: Undivided- Spell: Binding Damnation- Ravagers Command Trait: Master of DeceptionDarkoath Warqueen (90)- Ravagers Command Trait: Eternal VendettaTheddra Skull-Scryer (70)- Spell: Whispers of Chaos- Ravagers Command Trait: Unquestioned ResolveBattleline10 x Chaos Warriors (180)- Hand Weapon & Shield- Mark of Chaos: Undivided10 x Chaos Warriors (180)- Hand Weapon & Shield- Mark of Chaos: Undivided5 x Chaos Knights (160)- Cursed Lance- Mark of Chaos: Undivided10 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (220)- Javelin & Shield- Mark of Chaos: UndividedUnits4 x Khagra's Ravagers (125)- Spell: Mask of Darkness18 x Untamed Beasts (140)5 x Godsworn Hunt (60)6 x Furies (100)1 x Mindstealer Sphiranx (100)BattalionsGodsworn Champions of Ruin (180)Endless Spells / Terrain / CPsExtra Command Point (50)Total: 1995 / 2000Extra Command Points: 2Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 152 Edited March 10, 2021 by Andrethegreat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sesom Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 I am building up a 40 man block of marauders and am trying to decide what weapon load out to give them. I am thinking axes and shields as the extra attack seems to balance out the extra range and the extra +1 to hit seems like it could be padded out with spell buffs. Any argument for flails? Thanks for the input! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graywater Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 2 hours ago, Sesom said: I am building up a 40 man block of marauders and am trying to decide what weapon load out to give them. I am thinking axes and shields as the extra attack seems to balance out the extra range and the extra +1 to hit seems like it could be padded out with spell buffs. Any argument for flails? Thanks for the input! Axes and Shields every time. +1 attack doubles the output of each model in the unit, which leads to you having more total attacks than the extra inch of range gets you, and the flails wounding on 3s is only a 16% increase in output. Not to mention the shields giving the +1 save. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graywater Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 17 hours ago, Andrethegreat said: Thanks for every ones feedback, Here is 2 lists that I would like to try out, I don't have a Daemon prince, would be nice, but I have to fight with the army that I have. list #1 Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness- Damned Legion: RavagersLeadersChaos Lord on Karkadrak (230)- General- Command Trait: Bolstered by Hate- Artefact: Mark of the High-favoured- Mark of Chaos: Undivided- Ravagers Command Trait: Bolstered by HateChaos Sorcerer Lord (110)- Artefact: Hellfire Sword- Mark of Chaos: Undivided- Spell: Binding Damnation- Ravagers Command Trait: Master of DeceptionDarkoath Warqueen (90)- Ravagers Command Trait: Eternal VendettaTheddra Skull-Scryer (70)- Spell: Whispers of Chaos- Ravagers Command Trait: Unquestioned ResolveBattleline10 x Chaos Warriors (180)- Hand Weapon & Shield- Mark of Chaos: Undivided10 x Chaos Warriors (180)- Hand Weapon & Shield- Mark of Chaos: Undivided5 x Chaos Knights (160)- Cursed Lance- Mark of Chaos: Undivided10 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (220)- Javelin & Shield- Mark of Chaos: UndividedUnits4 x Khagra's Ravagers (125)- Spell: Mask of Darkness18 x Untamed Beasts (140)5 x Godsworn Hunt (60)6 x Furies (100)6 x Raptoryx (90)BattalionsGodsworn Champions of Ruin (180)Endless Spells / Terrain / CPsExtra Command Point (50)Total: 1985 / 2000Extra Command Points: 2Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 154 list #2 Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness- Damned Legion: RavagersLeadersChaos Lord on Karkadrak (230)- General- Command Trait: Bolstered by Hate- Artefact: Mark of the High-favoured- Mark of Chaos: Undivided- Ravagers Command Trait: Bolstered by HateChaos Sorcerer Lord (110)- Artefact: Hellfire Sword- Mark of Chaos: Undivided- Spell: Binding Damnation- Ravagers Command Trait: Master of DeceptionDarkoath Warqueen (90)- Ravagers Command Trait: Eternal VendettaTheddra Skull-Scryer (70)- Spell: Whispers of Chaos- Ravagers Command Trait: Unquestioned ResolveBattleline10 x Chaos Warriors (180)- Hand Weapon & Shield- Mark of Chaos: Undivided10 x Chaos Warriors (180)- Hand Weapon & Shield- Mark of Chaos: Undivided5 x Chaos Knights (160)- Cursed Lance- Mark of Chaos: Undivided10 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (220)- Javelin & Shield- Mark of Chaos: UndividedUnits4 x Khagra's Ravagers (125)- Spell: Mask of Darkness18 x Untamed Beasts (140)5 x Godsworn Hunt (60)6 x Furies (100)1 x Mindstealer Sphiranx (100)BattalionsGodsworn Champions of Ruin (180)Endless Spells / Terrain / CPsExtra Command Point (50)Total: 1995 / 2000Extra Command Points: 2Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 152 Are these all the models that you own, or are there substitutions that can be made? I like the second list better. the sphiranx is significantly better than the raptoryx. Suggestions: your warqueen has nothing to support. Id drop her. Untamed beasts are great, but splitting them into 2 units gives more flexibility. They have the same output, but can be separated if you need. Youre not low enough drops to bother to try to outdrop your opponent. Chaos warriors generally tend to want to be in either units of 5 for battleline requirements, or 15+ to make sure you keep the armor save reroll for as long as possible. Id either go with a unit of 5 and a unit of 15, or more likely, combine it to one big unit of 20, because you already have a few small units as backlinr objective babysitters. This is the only real meat including your army, so you need to maximize it's survivability. I'd also split the marauder horsemen into units of 5 for the same reason as the untamed beasts. You have a decent wound pool with some of it having a pretty good save. I worry you lack any real offensive threat, but I think you can play this army effectively as a sort of skirmish hit and run force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrethegreat Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 1 hour ago, Graywater said: Are these all the models that you own, or are there substitutions that can be made? I like the second list better. the sphiranx is significantly better than the raptoryx. Suggestions: your warqueen has nothing to support. Id drop her. Untamed beasts are great, but splitting them into 2 units gives more flexibility. They have the same output, but can be separated if you need. Youre not low enough drops to bother to try to outdrop your opponent. Chaos warriors generally tend to want to be in either units of 5 for battleline requirements, or 15+ to make sure you keep the armor save reroll for as long as possible. Id either go with a unit of 5 and a unit of 15, or more likely, combine it to one big unit of 20, because you already have a few small units as backlinr objective babysitters. This is the only real meat including your army, so you need to maximize it's survivability. I'd also split the marauder horsemen into units of 5 for the same reason as the untamed beasts. You have a decent wound pool with some of it having a pretty good save. I worry you lack any real offensive threat, but I think you can play this army effectively as a sort of skirmish hit and run force. This is the models I own, and Thank you for your feedback, I do have some questions, 1) What type of units can the Darkoath queen support and 2) what would the raptoryx unit be good for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boar Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 4 minutes ago, Andrethegreat said: 2) what would the raptoryx unit be good for? Screen, since they have 6 models on cavalry base they are quite good for it. Also zoning out your backfield vs teleports. In a pinch when they charge it's still 18 atk 3+/3+, so they could sometimes clear some screen of enemy. You could in first turn f.ex send them to capture objective as you won't miss them much when they die. Essentially they are quite mobile (10") utility unit, they achieve goals by being in place rather then killing stuff. F.ex. you have knights with lances, since they have same movement they would be good for screening them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrethegreat Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 22 minutes ago, Boar said: Screen, since they have 6 models on cavalry base they are quite good for it. Also zoning out your backfield vs teleports. In a pinch when they charge it's still 18 atk 3+/3+, so they could sometimes clear some screen of enemy. You could in first turn f.ex send them to capture objective as you won't miss them much when they die. Essentially they are quite mobile (10") utility unit, they achieve goals by being in place rather then killing stuff. F.ex. you have knights with lances, since they have same movement they would be good for screening them. Thank you, that's how I was using them, but was not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graywater Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 29 minutes ago, Andrethegreat said: This is the models I own, and Thank you for your feedback, I do have some questions, 1) What type of units can the Darkoath queen support and 2) what would the raptoryx unit be good for? Warqueen supports marauders and cultists, but its a little more complex than that. Her CA grants +3 to charge, but she has to be wholly within 12 of your unit to use it. Furthermore, marauders have one of the most reliable charge mechanics in the game, so they don't typically need it. I do like it in concept for cultist units, but cultists don't typically do any sort of damage. So you need the cultists to perform a different role. Your untamed beasts are speedbumps, but will likely die to anything you charge them into. I like a beefy unit of iron golems. They can go somewhere and pin units in fairly reliably since they're pretty tanky. Raptoryx screen and can hold backfield objectives, but thats about it. Not an awful tool to have, but you already perform those roles with other units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth criminal Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 On 3/9/2021 at 2:16 AM, Rors said: Belakor will definitely get a new warscroll and points with his new model. What would people like to see? Not being a 600+ points monstrosity like Archaon. I was just fine with the old one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosa Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 Yep, the actual Warscroll is pretty excellent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rors Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 9 hours ago, Smooth criminal said: Not being a 600+ points monstrosity like Archaon. I was just fine with the old one. I agree. While I'm pumped for the new model and rules, it's also a change to the best unit in the book and one of the best warscrolls in the game. Odds are the new version will be bigger and better, but less value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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