Do stormcast seem...

[Celestantpants]

...a little weak on the table top to anyone else?  Barring a few shoot cast lists, we just don't seem to have the ability to hang with other armies.  For how powerful and important the stormcast are presented as, they kinda get steam rolled unless we they are shooting, which doesn't really match up with fluff.  At all.  So why is that do you think, and do you think it might change in the future?  Just looking at the new chaos warriors and they are flatly superior to liberators, which is fine because slaves to darkness really needed help, but it just really drives home how weak much of our army actually is.

[Nizrah]

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2019/12/warhammer-40k-tau-are-broken.html

Here you go guys. Change TAU with Stormcast eternals. Riptide with Raptors and drones with Aetherwings and voila. Except we dont win any tournament.

Yea, SCE are super weak right now cuz how we are priced and 80% of our warscroll not changed since 1 edition.

[Eevika]

Just regular power creep. Wait for a new tome and thats that 

[Celestantpants]

When are stormcast likely to get a new tome do you think?  I gotta believe it's low on the priority list, due to the tome situations of other armies.

[Silchas_Ruin]

I feel like Stormcast need a new book, without a new chamber. I don't want to see point drops to make them better, all the old stuff new need new warscrolls, 

[Nizrah]

4 minutes ago, Celestantpants said:

When are stormcast likely to get a new tome do you think?  I gotta believe it's low on the priority list, due to the tome situations of other armies.

Well, only like 5 armies lack 2 ed tome.  Nurgle, Seraphone, Khadrons, Tzeentch and DoK i think. So i think we will be next after them.

 

[CommissarRotke]

56 minutes ago, Nizrah said:

Well, only like 5 armies lack 2 ed tome.  Nurgle, Seraphone, Khadrons, Tzeentch and DoK i think. So i think we will be next after them.

 

I thought the DOK tome was 2.0?

Lucky for us, these handful could be paired off / released together and make the wait shorter

[michu]

7 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

I thought the DOK tome was 2.0?

Yes, DoK and Nurgle are officially made with AoS 2.0 in mind.

[Mark Williams]

Except for a handful of combo lists, SCE are mid tier at best. The Tau analogy is a good one.

 I agree at this point that we need new warscrolls, not points adjustments.

[AverageBoss]

I dont consider AoS 1st edition to have started until the first GHB. Things before and after the first GHB were VERY different, just as different as pre/post 2nd edition. Many of the Stormcast warscrolls are relatively unchanged since the launch of the game, during what I call 0 edition (much like D&D had a 0 edition, that was radically different from anything else).

[JackStreicher]

SC have a big base size, short weapons range, 2 wounds each and mostly 1dmg.

the issue here is the pointing - compare a liberator to a ardboy and you‘ll see what I mean.

Most SCE units should receive a +1 dmg buff (in melee) while ranged power should be tuned down. Also, just give them a third wound...(they‘re practically ogres in plate)

it also does not help the army that it‘s big models are rather rubbish (base warscroll). The dragon is way too expensive for it‘s meager output and it only shines if you build towards the mortal wound spam of the shield. The Tauralon is just too niche to be useful (I usually play it but it‘s never worth its points)

 

edit: I agree with the posts before this one but on a more general level: AoS‘ (and 40k‘s) Units are no longer fixable by points, we need a regular rework of outdated and or bad warscrolls with the goal in mind that each Warscroll should be viable on its own. Examples of dearly required reworks: Liberators, Blood Stalkers, Khinerai, Akhelian Allopex, Akhelian Leviadon, Eidolons (fixable by points?), Namartii, Drakespawn Knights, Black Arc Corsairs,  Stardrakes, Nighthaunt (yup pretty much all of them), Tauralon, Lord Exorcist, Executioners, Anvilgard (oops, a whole subfaction), Phoenicium, 3/4 of all warlord traits and 80% of all Allegiance specific relics (who the hell keeps designing those without realizing that each faction would have thrown such relics onto the ne trash pile, those are no relics, those are burdens that cost an artefact slot, srsly design useful items, stop the nonsense).

It doesn‘t even work Lore-wise:

“My Lord we have your Family heirloom with us, carry it to battle for honor!“

“Are you talking about the Pearl That might explode into my face and kill me?“

„Yes but it is only about a 16% chance, Sir. Also it has a 16% chance to not work at all!“

„... I‘d rather take my chances with my good old blade, be so kind and throw this cursed item into the deepest, darkest abyss, will you?“

“Yes Sir, as you command!“ - the servant touches the wrong spot of the pearl by accident, a beautiful siren‘s tune fills the air followed by a loud popping crack as the servant‘s head explodes and scatteres red Mist and fleshy brainmatter across the hallway of the Akhelian Throne room.

“N o t again...WHO COULD EVER DECIDE TO NOT GET RID OF THIS RELIC IN THE FIRST PLACE?“

Edited December 13, 2019 by JackStreicher
Spelling

[CommissarRotke]

while I do understand the balance of wargames, it really makes negative sense for an "artefact" to have a chance to explode. we're not talking about a miscast or misfire here

[XReN]

On 12/12/2019 at 5:11 PM, Celestantpants said:

...a little weak on the table top to anyone else?  Barring a few shoot cast lists, we just don't seem to have the ability to hang with other armies.  For how powerful and important the stormcast are presented as, they kinda get steam rolled unless we they are shooting, which doesn't really match up with fluff.  At all.  So why is that do you think, and do you think it might change in the future?  Just looking at the new chaos warriors and they are flatly superior to liberators, which is fine because slaves to darkness really needed help, but it just really drives home how weak much of our army actually is.

Yup, we need battletome-wide buffs. And probably some baller Space Marine doctrine-like army wide rules that would give each chamber more defined fighting style. Also at least 1 more battle trait that would make sense, still can't wrap my head around the reason why we got only 2 in the last book whille nighthaunt got 5.

Remark about chaos warriors - they have always been better than libs and also cheaper. We need buffs like they recieved for most of our units.

[ledha]

slap +1 wound on every stormcast unit (+2 for heroes) as well as +1 attack on each weapon profile, keep the points as they are and you already made the army less pitiful.

A liberator being worse in melee than a freaking plague monk is ridiculous. Not gonna talk about the freeguild general on foot hitting harder than nearly every stormcast hero as well...

And it's an army that, originally, compensated it lack of deep synergies with a better baseline warscroll strenght

[armisael]

3 hours ago, ledha said:

slap +1 wound on every stormcast unit (+2 for heroes) as well as +1 attack on each weapon profile, keep the points as they are and you already made the army less pitiful.

A liberator being worse in melee than a freaking plague monk is ridiculous. Not gonna talk about the freeguild general on foot hitting harder than nearly every stormcast hero as well...

And it's an army that, originally, compensated it lack of deep synergies with a better baseline warscroll strenght

And Griffon also hit harder than Stardrake lol.