AoS 2 - Ogor Mawtribe Discussion

[Archibald]

13 hours ago, EasyArmy said:

Looks great - especially like the bloody terrain. What did you use to make that nice snow effect?

Thanks.:)

It is just Aethermatic blue and the blizzard snow stuff on top.

Super easy to do.^^

[Lord Krungharr]

I got 2 games in vs my Beasts of Chaos today (figured might as well play against myself so I could practice with 2 armies).

BoC had 3 Doombulls / 3x3 Greataxe Bullgors / 3x3 Axe&Shield Bullgors / 30 Gors w shields / 20 Bestigors / 2 allied Mindstealer Cats / Brass Despoilers

I had Boulderhead Chamon BCR:

FLoSH (general, Brand of the Svard, Black Clatterhorn)

FLoSH (Metalcruncher, Plate of Perfect Protection)

HoTT (Alvagr Ancient, vulture)

3x SHBR (all vultures)

Mission both games was Shifting Objectives.  I rolled randomly game 1 and just kept it for game 2; seems like a good mission to just see who's the most beatstick since it's all in the middle.  Neither game took very long.....

Game 1 deployment.  BoC kept the little guys in ambush.  Beasts let the Ogors go first in the hopes they could then proceed to charge them, rather than being charged.  The Stonehorns are so fast when they're hungry!  They scored 7 points turn 1 since the SHBR are battleline (extra bonus VP for that mission).  Huskard stayed within 6" of the Mawpot and was still also scoring the center primary objective too.

Here we are at the end of the Beasts' turn 1 movement and charging.  Bestigors made it into that right side with the FLoSH general and his SHBR escort.  Gors also made it into the left side, same deal, while some Bullgors got all jammed up on themselves in there too.  Then combat!.....

You may notice a whole lot less Bullgors on the left side and no Bestigors on the right side.  The left FLoSH took some damage from the Bullor great axes at least.  The Mawpot gave him 1 back turn 2....

The Ogors got turn priority and CRAMMED THE SHIZNIT out of the rest of the Beasts.  My poor cow and goat-men!   No hope to catch up.  How about a rematch, now that the Beasts have learned?......

Beasts having only 3 drops decide to use that advantage and go first this game, and also have their little dudes in front to 'screen' the valuable heavy hitting Bullgors.  They also realize that the cats need to run up close to do their mind-games in their next hero phase.  This proves to be a good idea.....

This is actually the end of the Beasts' turn 2, and the store was closing so I decided to end it there and pack up.  The center cat did end up making the center SHBR strike last so a Doombull and a unit each of greataxe and axe&shield Bullgors could wail on him without fear.  And eventually it died!  Hey look, the Beasts have 7 models in range of that objective....oh wait, MIGHT MAKES RIGHT; D'oh!  And those left side great axe Bullgors and then a Doombull managed to kill the general FLoSH who horribly whiffed after those greataxes struck first and bracketed him down to 4 wounds, leaving again 7 models in range of that objective to the Ogors 1 monster.   The SHs on the right in that pictures would have come over in their turn 2 (no Gors left to tie them up) and cleaned house in the center while the left SH might have actually died that turn but would have taken the last shield Bullgor and Doombull with him (though Bullgors whiff hard most of the time in my experience).  BoC just wouldn't have been able to catch up in points.

Really astounded by the sheer damage these big guys can dish out AND their resilience AND their ability to take and hold objectives.  If the BoC would have had some decent magic that could have changed the tide quite a bit I think, though the stone skeleton is pretty awesome. 

The massed vulture and harpoon attacks, and the frosty breath of the TT, did whittle down the Beasts, though not quite as well as I would have liked.  But Doombulls are 8 wounds each and they still get the Look Out Sir effect.  Hard to get rid of the regular Bullgors too since they have 4 wounds.  Still I think for many little enemy heroes they'd be good for sniping out some support many times.

Huskard is definitely not built for combat, but I did get some prayers off and that was very helpful and he did a few mortal wounds to one of the cats on the charge (those cats are pretty safe to be in combat with).  Not sure if a Butcher and Slaughtermaster would be preferable to the HoTT, perhaps in Bloodgullet it would, but then I'd lose on the extra mount traits, extra wounds for the monsters, extra objective holder.   Though Splatter Cleaver is so truly awesome.  I do like the Slaughermaster's (albeit) random ability, the healing or the +1 to hit is super useful if I can keep him in range.

My next practice game with these guys vs my Beasts will be Khorne Beasts and then Tzeentch Beasts.  I expect much stronger competition with those godly assistances.  Or it might just not matter at all.  Next time I play with my friend he wants to try either his Slaves to Darkness Ruinbringers (knights and chariots) or his variety pack of Gloomspite.  I look forward to both immensely!

[Malakithe]

Anyone got any good Underguts lists they want to share? Theres something satisfying about walking with cannons, blasting, then smashing with said cannons.

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, Malakithe said:

Anyone got any good Underguts lists they want to share? Theres something satisfying about walking with cannons, blasting, then smashing with said cannons.

I’m sadly dropping a cannon every few games. I started with four. Dropped it down to two now. 
I really really like leadbelchers. So I might go to 2 x 10 in the future. 
My current list:

tyrant - mass of scars - gruesome throphy rack - fateseeker

 slaughtermaster - blubbergrub stench 

icebrow hunter - gnoblar blast keg

4 sabres

20 gnoblars

12 gluttons

10 leadbelchers

4 ironguts 

2x cannons 

Goremand battalion

But most of my games are petty friendly. 
a more hard list (I think) would be:

Gut guard battalion

tyrant, 8 ironguts, 2 cannons

frostlord on stonehorn

10 leadbelchers, 6 leadbelchers  

three independent hammers, 6 leadbelchers to screen/hold a backfield objective. 4 cannon shots at 3+ 2+ -2 d6 dmg is enough that your opponent cant really ignore it. At least that’s what I found with my ‘friendly’ list. Most opponents will be able to deal with one of your big threats a turn, so you need to get them in fast though. 
but I’m just a voice on the internet that’s kinda guessing what would be the most competitive. 
maybe no cannons, just leadbelchers would be better though. And with only two cannons I might need to rethink my spell choice I realised  

 

[Malakithe]

Just now, Kramer said:

I’m sadly dropping a cannon every few games. I started with four. Dropped it down to two now. 
I really really like leadbelchers. So I might go to 2 x 10 in the future. 
My current list:

tyrant - mass of scars - gruesome throphy rack - fateseeker

 slaughtermaster - blubbergrub stench 

icebrow hunter - gnoblar blast keg

4 sabres

20 gnoblars

12 gluttons

10 leadbelchers

4 ironguts 

2x cannons 

Goremand battalion

But most of my games are petty friendly. 
a more hard list (I think) would be:

Gut guard battalion

tyrant, 8 ironguts, 2 cannons

frostlord on stonehorn

10 leadbelchers, 6 leadbelchers  

three independent hammers, 6 leadbelchers to screen/hold a backfield objective. 4 cannon shots at 3+ 2+ -2 d6 dmg is enough that your opponent cant really ignore it. At least that’s what I found with my ‘friendly’ list. Most opponents will be able to deal with one of your big threats a turn, so you need to get them in fast though. 
but I’m just a voice on the internet that’s kinda guessing what would be the most competitive. 
maybe no cannons, just leadbelchers would be better though. And with only two cannons I might need to rethink my spell choice I realised  

 

Why only 2 cannons? Easier to use the command ability that way or another reason? I like the idea of tons of Leadbelchers too

[Kramer]

5 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Why only 2 cannons? Easier to use the command ability that way or another reason? I like the idea of tons of Leadbelchers too

Honestly.  They didn’t do enough for me. Some games they did more just by getting a charge of with 2/3 of them buffed by the stench spell. 

its a big investment. 480 points. Plus a tyrant for the trophy rack. Which means a battalion. and then you run into something like KO that’s not all that weak to character sniping. Or a greater deamon, which are less than 3 cannons, which you might not take out In a turn either. Assuming you get all four in buff range and In line of sight. 😅

But I might have been playing them too ‘shooty’. I wasn’t a big leadbelcher fan. But when I made that mental switch that they were combat first, with extra utility second. They clicked. so maybe I just haven’t figured out how to play them like chariots with 2 lucky shots. If they counted as monster on the charge they would be so dope. But relying on that spell seems doomed to fail as a strategy for competitive tournament play. 

I do like the threat of them though. It allows you to do something turn one if your opponent slow plays and forces choices of being in buff range for small heroes. 
 

[Lord Krungharr]

I was just looking at my leadbelchers today and wondering about making an Underguts build.   Can they be a good shooty army or is something like Seraphon or KO or Cities Freeguild better suited for a shooty win?

So far Ogors have been better combat oriented than any other army I’ve ever used.  Even better than Khorne with Tyrants of Blood.  

It’s nice when we can get a couple competitive variety builds within a single army.  Saves money 💰 

[Malakithe]

Just now, Lord Krungharr said:

I was just looking at my leadbelchers today and wondering about making an Underguts build.   Can they be a good shooty army or is something like Seraphon or KO or Cities Freeguild better suited for a shooty win?

So far Ogors have been better combat oriented than any other army I’ve ever used.  Even better than Khorne with Tyrants of Blood.  

It’s nice when we can get a couple competitive variety builds within a single army.  Saves money 💰 

Theres no way you can match the sheer crazy shooting that those other can. As @Kramer said Leadbelchers are still a melee unit that can do stuff as they close the distance. With shooting into combat that when you can really blast some stuff away

[Malakithe]

4 hours ago, Kramer said:

Honestly.  They didn’t do enough for me. Some games they did more just by getting a charge of with 2/3 of them buffed by the stench spell. 

its a big investment. 480 points. Plus a tyrant for the trophy rack. Which means a battalion. and then you run into something like KO that’s not all that weak to character sniping. Or a greater deamon, which are less than 3 cannons, which you might not take out In a turn either. Assuming you get all four in buff range and In line of sight. 😅

But I might have been playing them too ‘shooty’. I wasn’t a big leadbelcher fan. But when I made that mental switch that they were combat first, with extra utility second. They clicked. so maybe I just haven’t figured out how to play them like chariots with 2 lucky shots. If they counted as monster on the charge they would be so dope. But relying on that spell seems doomed to fail as a strategy for competitive tournament play. 

I do like the threat of them though. It allows you to do something turn one if your opponent slow plays and forces choices of being in buff range for small heroes. 
 

Okay I hear you on that...so what if you tried...0 cannons and just loaded up on bodies via a ton of leadbelchers?

[Kramer]

40 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Okay I hear you on that...so what if you tried...0 cannons and just loaded up on bodies via a ton of leadbelchers?

Im afraid I’m going to end up like that 😅

but... i love my cannons. So two is the minimum for me in friendly games. 

44 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I was just looking at my leadbelchers today and wondering about making an Underguts build.   Can they be a good shooty army or is something like Seraphon or KO or Cities Freeguild better suited for a shooty win?

So far Ogors have been better combat oriented than any other army I’ve ever used.  Even better than Khorne with Tyrants of Blood.  

It’s nice when we can get a couple competitive variety builds within a single army.  Saves money 💰 

ueah  @Malakithe has put my thought about this into words nicely. 
That’s why I take leadbelchers in 10 man units. The worst thing that can happen to me is if I charge, and I get stuck and lose a movement phase.  Sometimes it’s unavoidable, but that’s my goal as I usually have less units then my opponents. 
also when I play with ‘pure’ gutbusters: 

I have my gluttons. Great objective holders, damage resistant, and when attacking weight of dice. 
my ironguts, absolute killers. But target #1. 
That leaves my leadbelchers. They can do both. Kinda. With their rend and their extra ranged attacks. So not as good as the others at one thing specific but an utility unit. 
but that means they also need to be able to do those things and that means getting the numbers up for the monster trampling charge. Because they do need that to break through. 
 

and yes, such a good book. So many play styles, that also feel narratively right.  Which to me is very important. 

[Zorki]

Hello, do you think it's a good move to take the warscroll battalion for a bloodgullet list? I mean actually the shooting meta + the 1-2 drops list makes us no choice in the first turn order. So I was thinking to don't go for warscroll battalion.  Ok, we will lose 1 Cp + 1 artefact + 1 (poor) warscroll effect, with 160 pts we can take more units. 

Do you think this idea is bad? 

[Kramer]

15 minutes ago, Zorki said:

Hello, do you think it's a good move to take the warscroll battalion for a bloodgullet list? I mean actually the shooting meta + the 1-2 drops list makes us no choice in the first turn order. So I was thinking to don't go for warscroll battalion.  Ok, we will lose 1 Cp + 1 artefact + 1 (poor) warscroll effect, with 160 pts we can take more units. 

Do you think this idea is bad? 

Depends on the battalion is the effect is poor. if you take a bigger unit of gluttons/leadbelchers/ironguts the +1 to hit from the slaughtermaster is huge. And the goremand does help a lot with that. And doesn’t seem out of place with a bloodgullut list. 
but 120 points is also 6 cats/20 gnoblars screening, 3 more gluttons etc. So it all depends if you get more use out of it. 
I like our artefacts. So I almost always take one. Even at 1,5K which is my preferred size. 
or do you mean the big war glut battalion? 

[Magnus The Blue]

22 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Anyone got any good Underguts lists they want to share? Theres something satisfying about walking with cannons, blasting, then smashing with said cannons.

My Underguts list that is undefeated at 2k after 12+ games:

Tyrant: General + Trophy Rack

Firebelly + Billowing Ash

Frostlord on Stonehorn, Metal Cruncher + Gnoblar Blast Keg.

4 Ironguts

2 * 4 Lead Belchers

2 * 2 Lead Belchers

4 * Iron Blasters

Tyrant's Gutguard.

 

As others have mentioned it's not a pure shooting army, but has enough shooting to force people towards you.  Personally I love the Iron Blasters as they are hard to kill, fast, mildly competent in combat and force people towards you. There presence also forces people to take first turn against you rather than out-dropping you they give you a not very productive first turn before potentially double turning you.

Every unit (except the Ironguts) can do damage in Shooting, charge and combat phase separately which means you don't waste much damage output overkilling things. A massive advantage that's easy to underestimate.

The Ironguts are usually the star players as people tend to focus on the Frost Load and Iron-blasters, so the Guts are relatively free to decimate stuff. 

 

[Malakithe]

Just now, Magnus The Blue said:

My Underguts list that is undefeated at 2k after 12+ games:

Tyrant: General + Trophy Rack

Firebelly + Billowing Ash

Frostlord on Stonehorn, Metal Cruncher + Gnoblar Blast Keg.

4 Ironguts

2 * 4 Lead Belchers

2 * 2 Lead Belchers

4 * Iron Blasters

Tyrant's Gutguard.

 

As others have mentioned it's not a pure shooting army, but has enough shooting to force people towards you.  Personally I love the Iron Blasters as they are hard to kill, fast, mildly competent in combat and force people towards you. There presence also forces people to take first turn against you rather than out-dropping you they give you a not very productive first turn before potentially double turning you.

Every unit (except the Ironguts) can do damage in Shooting, charge and combat phase separately which means you don't waste much damage output overkilling things. A massive advantage that's easy to underestimate.

The Ironguts are usually the star players as people tend to focus on the Frost Load and Iron-blasters, so the Guts are relatively free to decimate stuff. 

 

That seems to be what I was thinking too but I feel something is missing. Something feels off. I might mess around with mass leadbelchers with maybe a different battalion

[Magnus The Blue]

5 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

That seems to be what I was thinking too but I feel something is missing. Something feels off. I might mess around with mass leadbelchers with maybe a different battalion

It's a lot better than it looks on paper. The small units are great as they mean you don't have to worry about Bravery, you can split fire efficiently, 1" range isn't an issue, you maximise champions and opponents waste damage overkilling units. So if you going with mass Leadbelchers I'd use lots of small units every time.  

The Battalion is mainly there to reduce drops and get the artefact but I prefer that one as it means you don't have to over invest in characters (while not being screwed by character focus missions) and you aren't forced into taking gluttons, who just don't fit with the rest of the list.

[Kramer]

25 minutes ago, Magnus The Blue said:

. So if you going with mass Leadbelchers I'd use lots of small units every time.  

Interesting. How do you play them? 
after 5+ games i switched to big units and haven’t looked back since. 
but I do always have different units to screen. 

[Frowny]

The fire belly seems no good. Yes the spell is great. But 150 points for something that goes off on an 8 just feels too unreliable.  Maybe 2x 2 more Leadbelchers for more punch or a gnoblars screen+frost sabres to take an objective or hrogthorn to threaten backfield objectives if they come forward.

[Magnus The Blue]

53 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Interesting. How do you play them? 
after 5+ games i switched to big units and haven’t looked back since. 
but I do always have different units to screen. 

I find the Ogor screens too slow/small/expensive.  Much prefer using multiple small units to protect themselves rather then dedicated screens.  Assuming you have a few hard hitting units that are using your first few combat activations and aren't competing for drops, small units are just more useful: don't have to worry about Bravery, you can split fire efficiently, 1" range isn't an issue, you maximise champions and opponents waste damage overkilling units. 

4 minutes ago, Frowny said:

The fire belly seems no good. Yes the spell is great. But 150 points for something that goes off on an 8 just feels too unreliable.  Maybe 2x 2 more Leadbelchers for more punch or a gnoblars screen+frost sabres to take an objective or hrogthorn to threaten backfield objectives if they come forward.

120 points, so our cheapest hero and a caster to boot.  I found that you really need a 3rd character for missions that need them and having one unbind/dispell can make a bit difference compare to completely abandoning the magic phase.

8+ to cast is unreliable, but lower cast rolls will tend to get easily dispelled anyway (never going to really compete in the  magic phase outside bloodgullet).  Stick near the maw pot and it's casting more than half the time and can be game winning, especially if you get it off before you get double turned.

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, Magnus The Blue said:

I find the Ogor screens too slow/small/expensive.  Much prefer using multiple small units to protect themselves rather then dedicated screens.  Assuming you have a few hard hitting units that are using your first few combat activations and aren't competing for drops, small units are just more useful: don't have to worry about Bravery, you can split fire efficiently, 1" range isn't an issue, you maximise champions and opponents waste damage overkilling units. 

Makes sense. I personally don't find the sabrecats to slow or small. a Unit of four can easily block a charge, or at least hinder it to the point of uselessness. In combination witha hunter it's also excellent for pick up games or tournament settings where you don't know what you'll face.  Can deepstrike both, or one, or just threaten to do so and as a last drop set up the cats as a screen... which is just amazing fun against my mate who I play the most. 😂

Do you play the slaughtermaster often? I just love the goremand battalion in combination with a big units. 
I also feel like I get more value from the charge with 3 big units than 6-8 small units. 

Would be fun to face off against each other. It reads like it's just down to personal preference. 

What armies do you play the most? 
For me it's Stormcast/KO/Cities/Skaven

[Magnus The Blue]

8 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Makes sense. I personally don't find the sabrecats to slow or small. a Unit of four can easily block a charge, or at least hinder it to the point of uselessness. In combination witha hunter it's also excellent for pick up games or tournament settings where you don't know what you'll face.  Can deepstrike both, or one, or just threaten to do so and as a last drop set up the cats as a screen... which is just amazing fun against my mate who I play the most. 😂

Do you play the slaughtermaster often? I just love the goremand battalion in combination with a big units. 
I also feel like I get more value from the charge with 3 big units than 6-8 small units. 

Would be fun to face off against each other. It reads like it's just down to personal preference. 

What armies do you play the most? 
For me it's Stormcast/KO/Cities/Skaven

If you have a hunter too I can see the value in Cats, but I find them lackluster without and need the points for the big guns.

Because Belchers come in units of 2, it's more like 12-15 small units instead of 3 big ones (if your investing that many points) which is a nightmare to deal with and gives much more impact damage and significantly more attacks (because of champions who have 50% more attacks).  Different story with Gluttons who come in min 3 and, so not the same efficiency.  Also different if you playing with single target buffing spells but for this list the small units are great.

Played them against all sorts of opponents  KO, Stormcast, Beast, Nurgle, Khorne, Bonereapers, Slaves, Orruks etc etc.

[Ganigumo]

Does anyone have any experience with yhetees? I'm thinking about picking up a few but I don't know how good they are. Just from reading the warscroll they seem like they can hit pretty hard for their cost, but they're frail and dont have ogor charge or count as 2 models for controlling objectives.

[Frowny]

I'm endlessly disappointed by Yetis. Super cool, fun, neat tricks but ultimately just don't do enough damage to justify themselves. 

3 gluttons will take an objective from an enemy squad of 10 reliably. 3 yetis, even striking first, won't. And their enormous bases and short reach mean you can really only ever use squads of 3 or the extras won't fit, even with their pile in range.

My last game, it was an ogor mirror match. My 3 yetis piled into 12 gluttons that had already fought, killed one. Next turn they activated ahead of the gluttons and killed another. Gluttons fought back and since I got the perfect engage only downed 1 in return. I fought again on my turn and got a 3ed before losing all of them. And that was nearly perfect for them, 3 combats with almost no return attacks due to their sneakiness and they still could barely get their points back. When their best just doesn't do it, it doesn't offset the other games where they just get charged and die.

[Archibald]

Allegiance: Ogor Mawtribes
- Mawtribe: Bloodgullet

Leaders
Slaughtermaster (140)
- General
- Command Trait: Nice Drop of the Red Stuff!  
- Artefact: Wizardflesh Apron  
- Lore of Gutmagic: Blood Feast
- Bloodgullet 2nd Spell: Ribcracker
Butcher (140)
- Cleaver
- Artefact: Splatter-cleaver  
- Lore of Gutmagic: Ribcracker
- Bloodgullet 2nd Spell: Greasy Deluge

Battleline
12 x Ogor Gluttons (400)
- Clubs or Blades with Iron Fists
4 x Leadbelchers (160)
8 x Ironguts (440)

Battalions
Goremand (140)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Balewind Vortex (40)
Malevolent Maelstrom (10)
Ravenak's Gnashing Jaws (30)

Total: 1500 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 110

 

This is my tweaked Bloodgullet list from a few pages back.

It is all about having a bloody time with magic while smashing your opponent in the ground.

The endless spells are just for fun and because i had the points left. And i will love to see these on the table.

Endless magic everywhere while an unstoppable mass of ogors crushes forward.

[Malakithe]

8 hours ago, Magnus The Blue said:

If you have a hunter too I can see the value in Cats, but I find them lackluster without and need the points for the big guns.

Because Belchers come in units of 2, it's more like 12-15 small units instead of 3 big ones (if your investing that many points) which is a nightmare to deal with and gives much more impact damage and significantly more attacks (because of champions who have 50% more attacks).  Different story with Gluttons who come in min 3 and, so not the same efficiency.  Also different if you playing with single target buffing spells but for this list the small units are great.

Played them against all sorts of opponents  KO, Stormcast, Beast, Nurgle, Khorne, Bonereapers, Slaves, Orruks etc etc.

12-15 units? wow lol i need to play with warscroll builder now

[Sartxac]

13 hours ago, Frowny said:

I'm endlessly disappointed by Yetis. Super cool, fun, neat tricks but ultimately just don't do enough damage to justify themselves. 

3 gluttons will take an objective from an enemy squad of 10 reliably. 3 yetis, even striking first, won't. And their enormous bases and short reach mean you can really only ever use squads of 3 or the extras won't fit, even with their pile in range.

My last game, it was an ogor mirror match. My 3 yetis piled into 12 gluttons that had already fought, killed one. Next turn they activated ahead of the gluttons and killed another. Gluttons fought back and since I got the perfect engage only downed 1 in return. I fought again on my turn and got a 3ed before losing all of them. And that was nearly perfect for them, 3 combats with almost no return attacks due to their sneakiness and they still could barely get their points back. When their best just doesn't do it, it doesn't offset the other games where they just get charged and die.

maybe with the ability of pile from 6' you could fight first with two units of 3 yetis in the combat phase.

you could do 6damage to a unit with save +3 or 8damage to a unit with save +4 whitout take wounds. But the difference of damage is important (around 50%), and are worst for take objectives. As a minimum, are more fast and resilient than ogors gluttons:

 

 

Edited September 29, 2020 by Sartxac