Tempest Eye Discussion

[NauticalSoup]

All right so on the left longbeards, on the right ironbreakers. Fully buffed up against a 2+ armor save, the damage is very close. Longbeards are favoured until we add back the drakefire pistol and grenade, which leaves them nearly identical. The longbeards use +1 attack better, the ironbreakers use everything else better. I would consider these both to be mediocre offensive profiles for the amount of resources invested. 

Ironbreakers cost slightly more, although with a better armour save, marginally better damage (unbuffed, because this scenario where we have all our buff pieces alive and a reinforced unit of ironbreakers/longbeards will never happen) and they lack the grumble. So longbeards win only in the utility they provide to other units through grumbling.

But again I'm not relying on either of these to actually fight and don't think they use reinforcement points well - if you bring in irondrakes or hammerers it completely blows these guys out of the water.

 

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by NauticalSoup
img problem

[Lord Krungharr]

I was planning on using my 3x10 old Miners as Longbeards, and then basically as screen units who may or may not actually do anything.  Guess I need to pay attention to the cranky pants distances too now!  

Really wish I could find some well priced hammerers.  Also, they haven't been repackaged for AoS.  Do we think they have a reasonable chance of finding themselves in real future tomes?  Hate to invest too much into them if they will be Legends.

[NauticalSoup]

16 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I was planning on using my 3x10 old Miners as Longbeards, and then basically as screen units who may or may not actually do anything.  Guess I need to pay attention to the cranky pants distances too now!  

Really wish I could find some well priced hammerers.  Also, they haven't been repackaged for AoS.  Do we think they have a reasonable chance of finding themselves in real future tomes?  Hate to invest too much into them if they will be Legends.

Longbeards are fine as screens, they're slightly cheaper and that's the most important thing for screening, I just assumed you were using them in a 30 man block which is unusual and why I asked!

Hammerers and longbeards are the same kit, so if one goes the other goes too. They are relatively speaking on the new end of CoS WHFB era units, so they are about as likely to get squatted as anything else in Cities. I think given the size of the range you are more likely to see the entire Dispossessed army disappear together than you would be to see any single kit bite it.

[Lord Krungharr]

Good point about the Longbeards.  I got the old Miners pretty cheap so I won't be too upset about them.  I'm hoping Cities sticks around even if the Duardin United doesn't happen (though I have a strong hunch it will).  Where will the normal humans go if there are no Cities left?!?!  Maybe instead of the Dispossessed they'll become the Repossessed, so long as they don't become Possessed, which is what some of the Chaos Dwarves might prefer 😛

 

[NauticalSoup]

41 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Where will the normal humans go if there are no Cities left?!?! 

Dawnbringer Crusades. They're still in the rumour phase but they're the offensive counterpart to cities and will likely bring us new Order mortals. Humans for sure, possibly other races.

[Lord Krungharr]

Guess I need to read some current lore.

[Lord Krungharr]

My airforce idea.  Almost have all the models (working on Dwarvish Stormdrakes.)

Gotta do some paint-prep for the Ironclad.  How do people really mount those things on flying stands?  The one it comes with is crazy small.  I like the transparent method as it does sort of look flying (without my glasses).  Plus for transporting the model it's cumbersome to leave it on the flying stand.  Would take a mighty magnet, one that could strip credit cards.

 

[zilberfrid]

1 hour ago, Lord Krungharr said:

My airforce idea.  Almost have all the models (working on Dwarvish Stormdrakes.)

Gotta do some paint-prep for the Ironclad.  How do people really mount those things on flying stands?  The one it comes with is crazy small.  I like the transparent method as it does sort of look flying (without my glasses).  Plus for transporting the model it's cumbersome to leave it on the flying stand.  Would take a mighty magnet, one that could strip credit cards.

 

I love the concept, butba single hero, so few unbinds and no real synergy seems rough.

[readercolin]

2 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Gotta do some paint-prep for the Ironclad.  How do people really mount those things on flying stands?  The one it comes with is crazy small.  I like the transparent method as it does sort of look flying (without my glasses).  Plus for transporting the model it's cumbersome to leave it on the flying stand.  Would take a mighty magnet, one that could strip credit cards.

The flight stand for the ironclad is absolutely ridiculous.  That being said - I did use it for mine.

But I also braced the other side of the ironclad on a small "hill", which I made out of clay.  This gives it support up front and in back, and helps the model stay stable, though you really have to pick mine up by its base and not by the boat.  Failing to support the boat in an additional way like this is going to leave it with wobbly model syndrome, and I had an unsupported gunhauler for a bit that nearly felt like it was going to wobble off its stand just driving it to the local game store.

[Lord Krungharr]

2 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

I love the concept, butba single hero, so few unbinds and no real synergy seems rough.

Good point....the gunhauler I put in there for the ward save on the Ironclad, but perhaps that's unnecessary.  I could trade out that and the Fulminators and the Gyrocopters (because they really kinda suck, especially with a less hordey meta), and take a Celestial Hurricanum and my Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-charger and Emerald Lifeswarm.  Not as airborne but hard to argue with a Hurricanum.

The Griffon Battlemage and Sorceress on Dragon caught my eye, but just not sure they're as worth it as the Hurricanum.  Kinda wanted to make a Dwarf version of that anyways, with whirling hammers around an anvil or something.  

I'll give what I have a try in a practice game vs another of my armies to see how it goes.  

[readercolin]

The griffon battlemage is... bad.  Like, its hard to state just how bad it is.  It is a 13 wound model on a 5+ save, does terrible damage in melee, only has 6 bravery (so can't really rely on heroic recovery), and somehow it is still only a single cast wizard.  If it was a 2 cast wizard, or it had a useful warscroll spell that you couldn't get from a battlemage on foot, it might be worth it, but it doesn't.

The sorceress on dragon is better.  It is still a 14 wound model on a 5+ save that can only really fight in melee, but it comes with a useful command ability that you can't get from the sorceress on foot (inspire hatred), and bladewind is an interesting spell that it can cast, though it works best on squishy units, or after you hit something with vitrolic spray.

However, the Hurricanum is straight up good.  Even if it doesn't cast any spells, it can put out an average of 5 mortal wounds in the shooting phase, as well as buffing other nearby units.  It also buffs itself for casting by +1, and it is 11 wounds on a 4+ base save.  Finally, both of its warscroll spells are actually pretty decent (though against different targets).  Basically, it can actually perform without needing to actually get into melee combat (where none of them want to be) and it is just generally the best at doing its actual job.

[Lord Krungharr]

I'm thinking a Steam Tank will be the starting point for my Duardin Hurricanum.  Seems right and proper to do so.

[Lord Krungharr]

Is this list just garbage?   Kinda seems like it, not sure I even want to spend time proxy battling with it.  But it would LOOK cool.

-Steam Tank Commander (hawkeyed, not sure about relic)

-2 Runelords

-Gotrek

-1x20 Irondrakes

-2 single Gyrocopters

-3 Steamtanks for battleline

[NauticalSoup]

Irondrakes never really seem worth it without access to shenanigans that allow them to doubleshoot turn 1. 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

14 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Is this list just garbage?   Kinda seems like it, not sure I even want to spend time proxy battling with it.  But it would LOOK cool.

-Steam Tank Commander (hawkeyed, not sure about relic)

-2 Runelords

-Gotrek

-1x20 Irondrakes

-2 single Gyrocopters

-3 Steamtanks for battleline

I like Zephyrite Banner (reroll charges), because it helps make the Tank's movement more consistent.

13 hours ago, NauticalSoup said:

Irondrakes never really seem worth it without access to shenanigans that allow them to doubleshoot turn 1. 

You might not be able to get their double shot turn 1, but Tempest's Eye at least allows them to get into position for a normal shot very easily:

4" move + 1d6" run + 1" Hornblower bonus + 1" Tempest's Eye run bonus + 3" Tempest's Eye turn 1 bonus = 10" to 15" move turn 1. At which point you can give them the run-and-shoot command with one of the Runelords. It's no double shoot, but you get to save the points of having to bring a wizard and Soulscream Bridge at least.

[Lord Krungharr]

I was thinking if the enemy is fast and coming at me I'd just keep the Irondrakes still ready for Unleashing Hell, which I think they'd get to shoot twice since they hadn't moved.  But wow didn't realize they could be moving up that quickly turn 1!  That would be useful I think vs a slower or more castled enemy.

[Doko]

7 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I'd just keep the Irondrakes still ready for Unleashing Hell, which I think they'd get to shoot twice since they hadn't moved

Take note that you cant shoot twice if you have enemys at 3" and with nerfed unleash hell being only 6" is imposible shoot with many irondrakes while out of 3"

[Lord Krungharr]

On 4/14/2022 at 8:27 PM, Doko said:

Take note that you cant shoot twice if you have enemys at 3" and with nerfed unleash hell being only 6" is imposible shoot with many irondrakes while out of 3"

That's a tricksy rule for sure; I think I've used it only once.  Guess if the Hurricanum can do it that could be useful too with the MW.

[Geoffreyvt]

So, I wanted to try out a full Dwarven army. Using Dispossessed, KO and Fyreslayers. Temest Eye seems the best fit. The following is what I came up with:

 - Army Faction: Cities of Sigmar
     - Army Type: Tempest’s Eye
     - Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
     - Triumph: Bloodthirsty
LEADERS
Warden King (100)
     - General
     - Command Traits: Aetherguard Captain
Runelord (100)
     - General's Adjutant
     - Prayers: Heal
Auric Runeson (80)
     - Ancestral War-axe
Celestial Hurricanum with Celestial Battlemage (280)
     - Artefacts of Power: Arcane Tome
     - Spells: Aura of Glory
BATTLELINE
Longbeards (105)
     - General's Retinue
     - Ancestral Weapon and Gromril Shield
Longbeards (105)
     - Ancestral Weapon and Gromril Shield
Hammerers (290)
BEHEMOTH
Arkanaut Frigate (250)
     - Heavy Sky Cannon
OTHER
Grundstok Thunderers (270)
Hearthguard Berzerkers (320)
     - Flamestrike Poleaxe
ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS
1 x Emerald Lifeswarm (60)
TOTAL POINTS: 1960/2000

The main question I have: is there another Fyreslayer combination that would work better? Since they are allies and not coallition, they don´t use our +3 move and +1 save. 

Also, I know the KO part is suboptimal and it would be better to use irondrakes. But I really do like a boat and don´t have any irondrakes. 

 

C&C appreciated!

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

37 minutes ago, Geoffreyvt said:

So, I wanted to try out a full Dwarven army. Using Dispossessed, KO and Fyreslayers. Temest Eye seems the best fit. The following is what I came up with:

 - Army Faction: Cities of Sigmar
     - Army Type: Tempest’s Eye
     - Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
     - Triumph: Bloodthirsty
LEADERS
Warden King (100)
     - General
     - Command Traits: Aetherguard Captain
Runelord (100)
     - General's Adjutant
     - Prayers: Heal
Auric Runeson (80)
     - Ancestral War-axe
Celestial Hurricanum with Celestial Battlemage (280)
     - Artefacts of Power: Arcane Tome
     - Spells: Aura of Glory
BATTLELINE
Longbeards (105)
     - General's Retinue
     - Ancestral Weapon and Gromril Shield
Longbeards (105)
     - Ancestral Weapon and Gromril Shield
Hammerers (290)
BEHEMOTH
Arkanaut Frigate (250)
     - Heavy Sky Cannon
OTHER
Grundstok Thunderers (270)
Hearthguard Berzerkers (320)
     - Flamestrike Poleaxe
ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS
1 x Emerald Lifeswarm (60)
TOTAL POINTS: 1960/2000

The main question I have: is there another Fyreslayer combination that would work better? Since they are allies and not coallition, they don´t use our +3 move and +1 save. 

Also, I know the KO part is suboptimal and it would be better to use irondrakes. But I really do like a boat and don´t have any irondrakes. 

 

C&C appreciated!

What's the name of the guy that allows you to rally back troops on a 4+? The Battlesmith?

He's still an option at the moment. His buffed rally still works on any unit, not just FYRESLAYERS. I think there is a high chance that this interaction will be FAQ'd in some way (maybe limited FYRESLAYERS, maybe limited DUARDIN), but I figure it's worth mentioning that the possibility exists.

[Geoffreyvt]

9 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

What's the name of the guy that allows you to rally back troops on a 4+? The Battlesmith?

He's still an option at the moment. His buffed rally still works on any unit, not just FYRESLAYERS. I think there is a high chance that this interaction will be FAQ'd in some way (maybe limited FYRESLAYERS, maybe limited DUARDIN), but I figure it's worth mentioning that the possibility exists.

And how would you use him? He´s 150p so using 10 hearthguard (320p) isn´t possible. 

Would you use him with just 10 normal fyreslayers?

[readercolin]

4 minutes ago, Geoffreyvt said:

And how would you use him? He´s 150p so using 10 hearthguard (320p) isn´t possible. 

Would you use him with just 10 normal fyreslayers?

Honestly, I wouldn't look to run him with other fyreslayers units.  Just bring him on his own, because rally on a 4+ is just that much better than rally on 6's.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

13 hours ago, Geoffreyvt said:

And how would you use him? He´s 150p so using 10 hearthguard (320p) isn´t possible. 

Would you use him with just 10 normal fyreslayers?

Hard to say. I don't really know what the regular Fyreslayer units bring to the table in Cities. It seems to me a lot of their strength comes from allegiance abilities.

The good thing about the 4+ rally guy right now is that his ability doesn't just benefit Fyreslayers, which I think makes him good in Cities. But I don't really know what other Fyreslayer units would go well with him if you want to make the most of your 400 ally points.

[Geoffreyvt]

9 hours ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Hard to say. I don't really know what the regular Fyreslayer units bring to the table in Cities. It seems to me a lot of their strength comes from allegiance abilities.

The good thing about the 4+ rally guy right now is that his ability doesn't just benefit Fyreslayers, which I think makes him good in Cities. But I don't really know what other Fyreslayer units would go well with him if you want to make the most of your 400 ally points.

True on their allegiance abilities. Really wanted to go full on duardin like the good old days with slayers. Maybe there is a hidden gem not yet uncovered... 😊

In your games, do you often use rally? I only use it on my gunline from time to time. Bit in this particular list that wouldn´t be the case. 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

8 hours ago, Geoffreyvt said:

True on their allegiance abilities. Really wanted to go full on duardin like the good old days with slayers. Maybe there is a hidden gem not yet uncovered... 😊

In your games, do you often use rally? I only use it on my gunline from time to time. Bit in this particular list that wouldn´t be the case. 

I don't use rally that much, but that's down to my Cities list which does not have any good targets for it. Also, the regular 6+ rally and the 4+ rally the Battlesmith gets are really different beasts. The latter is pretty reliable even on small units and widely applicable. It's a particularly strong option to use on anvils like Phoenix Guard or expensive stuff like Stormdrakes, but basically any big infantry block will appreciate it.

Wait until the Fyreslayers FAQ is out, though. I think the chance that this ability will continue to work on non-Fyreslayers the way it does right now is slim.