Sethiris Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 49 minutes ago, Furythrow2 said: @Sethiris if you're planning to use the freeguild guard just for board control I don't know if upgrading them to bleakswords would be worth it. As for taking the crossbow on the dreadlord, I think the only way it's better than the shield is if you're using it with the command ability to get the easy charge from outflanking. I know, they're pretty much the same (+1 move and bravery) but what else can I do with 30 points? 😅 Yeah, but then it'll be out of range of the Phoenix aura, which would be unfortunate. So I think I'll play it safe with a shield instead. But that's what play testing is for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furythrow2 Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 3 minutes ago, Sethiris said: I know, they're pretty much the same (+1 move and bravery) but what else can I do with 30 points? 😅 Yeah, but then it'll be out of range of the Phoenix aura, which would be unfortunate. So I think I'll play it safe with a shield instead. But that's what play testing is for! Honestly if you have the extra points then yeah why not use a better unit, unless you're missing other synergies. You're right though, play test and tell us how it goes! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sethiris Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 4 hours ago, Furythrow2 said: Honestly if you have the extra points then yeah why not use a better unit, unless you're missing other synergies. You're right though, play test and tell us how it goes! Will do! Trying it tonight! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelfric Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 7 hours ago, Sethiris said: Another would be to drop the Stardrake, but getting something with 2+ save and a shooting attack is rare. So I won't really have anything to move, save for the Sisters and the Hurricanum. I have considered taking a Drakesworn Templar and a unit of Concussors (who also have a shooting attack) and deepstriking both together for a 3" inch charge. The shooting attack of the Templar gives the Concussors +1 to hit the target unit if it hits. I've even considered a unit of 4, which would be 940 points for the 2 units, but would pack a pretty good punch and be fairly durable. The sad fact, though, is that I do not have any of these models and it would be a long-term project to get them on the table. I may start with 2 Concussors and try them with my Dreadlord on Black Dragon with crossbow, which I already have. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sethiris Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 So I tried it yesterday. Met one of the most competitive players at the club. He played a Hallowheart list which utterly destroyed me 😅 Conclusion: Mortal wounds are really dangerous to a monster list. And then of course the elemental cyclone meant one of my units was at least halved per turn. I couldn't stop any spells as he had +7 on casting rolls and the spell portal was the real killer. I have a feeling that they didn't really consider the endless spells and malign sorcery artefacts when they balanced Cities. Looking at several meta lists today (hallowheart, legions of nagash, legion of grief, slaanesh, khorne, ossiarch bonereapers and tzeentch to name a few), they all have one thing in common. Key characters that hide behind large screens and need to be sniped. And magic tends not to suffice as many of them ignore spells or mortal wounds. The answer? Probably just Longstrike Crossbows or something similar to be honest. Shadow Warriors should do a good job at sniping characters with a 2+ to hit in cover as well. Sisters of the Watch are really solid shooters but are extremely fragile and struggle with mobility. Therefore they need a delivery system to get in range (deep strike or Soulscream Bridge) I do think that Scourgerunner Chariots would work well here, but they are extremely costly money-wise as a 150 pt unit will set you back about 80 quid. Fielding 5-6 units of these would cost you an arm and a leg. And I don't even want to think about transporting 15-18 120x92mm bases. 😵 Another unit we might want to consider including to counter those really impactful spells would be the Knight-Incantor. Shutting down a portal could save you up to 20 models or a key monster. That is hundreds of points. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furythrow2 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 @Sethiris Honestly if it was a really stompy battle I'd give it some time before you make any dramatic changes to the list. If you get the chance to try it a few more times you might spot units that are consistently weak or whether they just had a bad match up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sethiris Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 45 minutes ago, Furythrow2 said: @Sethiris Honestly if it was a really stompy battle I'd give it some time before you make any dramatic changes to the list. If you get the chance to try it a few more times you might spot units that are consistently weak or whether they just had a bad match up You're right. I probably need to get used to playing it before dumping the idea But I did notice that I had a limited amount of offensive power. Perhaps the Hurricanum is just too much of a points sink. I'm thinking just 1 caster and either phoenix or stardrake, not both. Or just a Black Dragon with Crossbow. Then a(nother) dragon (black with crossbow) and more shooting or mobile units. and of course a second command point. I have been contemplating the Penumbral Engine, but it might just be too much points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furythrow2 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 34 minutes ago, Sethiris said: You're right. I probably need to get used to playing it before dumping the idea But I did notice that I had a limited amount of offensive power. Perhaps the Hurricanum is just too much of a points sink. I'm thinking just 1 caster and either phoenix or stardrake, not both. Or just a Black Dragon with Crossbow. Then a(nother) dragon (black with crossbow) and more shooting or mobile units. and of course a second command point. I have been contemplating the Penumbral Engine, but it might just be too much points. Maybe you could shuffle the big monsters around/ try some others and see what gives the most punch. I think the hurricanum is probably a big force multiplier so I'd be wary of dropping it. Maybe you could run the version without the character wizard? I'm not sure if the penumbral engine is the answer to lacking punch though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, Sethiris said: So I tried it yesterday. Met one of the most competitive players at the club. He played a Hallowheart list which utterly destroyed me 😅 Conclusion: Mortal wounds are really dangerous to a monster list. And then of course the elemental cyclone meant one of my units was at least halved per turn. I couldn't stop any spells as he had +7 on casting rolls and the spell portal was the real killer. I have a feeling that they didn't really consider the endless spells and malign sorcery artefacts when they balanced Cities. Looking at several meta lists today (hallowheart, legions of nagash, legion of grief, slaanesh, khorne, ossiarch bonereapers and tzeentch to name a few), they all have one thing in common. Key characters that hide behind large screens and need to be sniped. And magic tends not to suffice as many of them ignore spells or mortal wounds. The answer? Probably just Longstrike Crossbows or something similar to be honest. Shadow Warriors should do a good job at sniping characters with a 2+ to hit in cover as well. Sisters of the Watch are really solid shooters but are extremely fragile and struggle with mobility. Therefore they need a delivery system to get in range (deep strike or Soulscream Bridge) I do think that Scourgerunner Chariots would work well here, but they are extremely costly money-wise as a 150 pt unit will set you back about 80 quid. Fielding 5-6 units of these would cost you an arm and a leg. And I don't even want to think about transporting 15-18 120x92mm bases. 😵 Another unit we might want to consider including to counter those really impactful spells would be the Knight-Incantor. Shutting down a portal could save you up to 20 models or a key monster. That is hundreds of points. Sorry for bugging. As I know you said you just got destroyed by a Hallowheart list - but can you share what his list was roughly made out of? EDIT: In regards to the Spell Portal, you can only cast 1 spell per turn through it. Was it really that destructive with only one spell going through it? Edited October 30, 2019 by Rune 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sethiris Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 14 hours ago, Rune said: Sorry for bugging. As I know you said you just got destroyed by a Hallowheart list - but can you share what his list was roughly made out of? EDIT: In regards to the Spell Portal, you can only cast 1 spell per turn through it. Was it really that destructive with only one spell going through it? Sure, It was 5 casters (3 battlemages, one with ignax scales and then 2 sorceresses) A fleetmaster general 40+20+20 corsairs and 30 phoenix guard The thing that kills is elemental cyclone. Rolls as many dice as there are models in a unit, on a 4+ it does a mortal wound. That effectively halves a unit per turn. In this game, it killed a whole unit per turn because he got lucky with the dice rolls and I didn't have any battleshock immunity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namelessone81 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Thoughts ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GM_Monkey Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 hour ago, Sethiris said: The thing that kills is elemental cyclone. Rolls as many dice as there are models in a unit, on a 4+ it does a mortal wound. That effectively halves a unit per turn. In this game, it killed a whole unit per turn because he got lucky with the dice rolls and I didn't have any battleshock immunity. It's within 12" though, put I guess with 5 caster it difficult to guess which one is going to cast it? Or was he casting it though a spell portal or balewind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sethiris Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, Furythrow2 said: Maybe you could shuffle the big monsters around/ try some others and see what gives the most punch. I think the hurricanum is probably a big force multiplier so I'd be wary of dropping it. Maybe you could run the version without the character wizard? I'm not sure if the penumbral engine is the answer to lacking punch though. You're right. The engine would just be a points sink. That is more if we really need the cp. But hopefully, one extra will suffice. Another option is of course to go for a general on foot and have a 50% chance of an extra. If you're running two dragons, that cp can be used to give them +1 on wound rolls. They need the hit modifier more, but it's still something. Something like this then maybe? Spoiler Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar- City: Living CityDreadlord on Black Dragon (300)- Lance of Spite & Repeater Crossbow- Artefact: Spear of the HuntDreadlord on Black Dragon (300)- Lance of Spite & Repeater CrossbowCelestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (280)- Spell: Lore of Leaves - Cage of Thorns (Living City Wizard)Nomad Prince (120)- General- Trait: Druid of the Everspring - Ironoak SkinKnight-Incantor (140)- Spell: Lore of Leaves - Lifesurge (Living City Wizard)- City Role: General's Adjutant (Must be 6 wounds or less)20 x Sisters of the Watch (320)10 x Sisters of the Watch (160)10 x Sisters of the Watch (160)- City Role: Honoured Retinue (Must be 5-20 models)3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (170)Extra Command Point (50)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 95 Edited October 31, 2019 by Sethiris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sethiris Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 40 minutes ago, GM_Monkey said: It's within 12" though, put I guess with 5 caster it difficult to guess which one is going to cast it? Or was he casting it though a spell portal or balewind? Portal. That's why the spell portal was the issue. Without it I could just stay far enough away to avoid the brunt of the spells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsoly Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 So I might have picked up a sisters of twilight forest which I’ll run as a dreadlord with exile sword and repeater bow. Any experiences with this unit yet? Of course excited to come in off the board and try to get the 3” charge. The rest I’m torn between anointed and PG or assassin with SW and DR. Probably ought to pickup this army book... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sennyo Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 Hi later today I have a 1000 point game, not sure if it's meeting engagement yet but I've decided to go for a living city army. Hoping for some tips and possible changes. List : Fleet master - general Sorcerer - adjucent Drycha 1x scourgerunner 1x scourgerunner 20x Black guard - bodyguard 5x sister of the thorn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GM_Monkey Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Sennyo said: Hi later today I have a 1000 point game, not sure if it's meeting engagement yet but I've decided to go for a living city army. Hoping for some tips and possible changes. List : Fleet master - general Sorcerer - adjucent Drycha 1x scourgerunner 1x scourgerunner 20x Black guard - bodyguard 5x sister of the thorn Sister of the Thorn are nice, but what the point without a Wanderers unit to cast the spell onto? Do you just want a fast moving caster? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sennyo Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 3 hours ago, GM_Monkey said: Sister of the Thorn are nice, but what the point without a Wanderers unit to cast the spell onto? Do you just want a fast moving caster? I originally had dark riders instead, I wanted a fast unit that if need could charge into combat and back Drycha, I realised for 20 point more sister did the same job and were a wizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambot1231 Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 What would be some of the weaknesses of this list? Do you think that the the artifact/ commander Durthu and fulminators would be worth their weight for the pop up alpha strike? Also would something else be better than sisters of the thorn or are they okay just sitting backfield in a support role? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Sun Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 Has anyone tried or thought about going all in on a SotW build? Seems like it could be fairly devastating with the sheer amount of shots and mortal wound potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adreal Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 I'm running two units of 20, should make a nice no go zone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landohammer Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 9 hours ago, Rogue Sun said: Has anyone tried or thought about going all in on a SotW build? Seems like it could be fairly devastating with the sheer amount of shots and mortal wound potential. The more I think about it, the more I like a Sisters army. The investment would be huge but three units of 30 with a Nomad prince would be terrifying. That could be up to 25 mortals a turn + regular damage. Combined with the deepstrike and double move, this could really be hard to counter My one hold up would be the occasional use of realm rules in tournaments. There are a few realms that absolutely shut down shooting (realm of shadow most notably). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Sun Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, Landohammer said: The more I think about it, the more I like a Sisters army. The investment would be huge but three units of 30 with a Nomad prince would be terrifying. That could be up to 25 mortals a turn + regular damage. Combined with the deepstrike and double move, this could really be hard to counter My one hold up would be the occasional use of realm rules in tournaments. There are a few realms that absolutely shut down shooting (realm of shadow most notably). I'm not sure I'd go full all in on SotW. Hard to fit that many all within 12" of the Nomad prince. But something like this could likely have merit (I think): Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar- City: Living CityMortal Realm: GhyranNomad Prince (120)- GeneralNomad Prince (120)Sorceress (90)- City Role: General's Adjutant (Must be 6 wounds or less)30 x Sisters of the Watch (480)30 x Sisters of the Watch (480)30 x Eternal Guard (330)5 x Sisters of the Thorn (130)1 x Scourgerunner Chariots (60)1 x Scourgerunner Chariots (60)1 x Scourgerunner Chariots (60)1 x Scourgerunner Chariots (60)Total: 1990 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 139 One Nomad Prince and SotW deepstrike along with 2 Scourge Runners to annoy/run interference. The rest of the army advances behind the EG who get buffed up by the SotT. The non-deepstruck Scourge Runners stay at the flanks providing some sniping and harrassment. Edited November 4, 2019 by Rogue Sun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GM_Monkey Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 On 11/3/2019 at 5:02 AM, Rogue Sun said: Has anyone tried or thought about going all in on a SotW build? Seems like it could be fairly devastating with the sheer amount of shots and mortal wound potential. This is what I run 1 unit of 30 and a unit of 20. But the biggest issue is placement, you really have to be careful with your initial placement, not to close but not too far away. You've also got to place them with a hero close by to use the after shooting movement, so that they always have a big target within range next round. It's a tough challenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zilberfrid Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 5 hours ago, Rogue Sun said: I'm not sure I'd go full all in on SotW. Hard to fit that many all within 12" of the Nomad prince. But something like this could likely have merit (I think): Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar- City: Living CityMortal Realm: GhyranNomad Prince (120)- GeneralNomad Prince (120)Sorceress (90)- City Role: General's Adjutant (Must be 6 wounds or less)30 x Sisters of the Watch (480)30 x Sisters of the Watch (480)30 x Eternal Guard (330)5 x Sisters of the Thorn (130)1 x Scourgerunner Chariots (60)1 x Scourgerunner Chariots (60)1 x Scourgerunner Chariots (60)1 x Scourgerunner Chariots (60)Total: 1990 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 139 One Nomad Prince and SotW deepstrike along with 2 Scourge Runners to annoy/run interference. The rest of the army advances behind the EG who get buffed up by the SotT. The non-deepstruck Scourge Runners stay at the flanks providing some sniping and harrassment. Maybe you want a Retinue, which is an option if you split either one Sisters or one Eternal Guard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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