Sethiris

That is exactly the reason. Needing to get 15 models in base-to-base is easier said than done, especially if fighting a more elite unit or monster. The 2 inch range means that the black guard only need 10 models in base contact to have full reach. That's 2/3 of the space needed for the same number of models (slighly less considering that it also increases sideways reach) If they had a 2 inch range, I would definitely consider using my 60 Executioners who spend their days gathering dust on my shelf. Now they simply fall a bit short.. For MW, you're often better off using Greatswords or Hammerers. Hammerers are just one more point per model and have -1 rend. Sure, they do MW on wound rolls rather than hit rolls, but Executioners have been nerfed quite a lot. I used to run them with a Hurricanum, causing 2 MW on a 5+. A unit of 30 did a total of 50 MW in one attack for me once, average would be about 40MW if all 30 got in. Now the average is about 10MW if all 30 get in. The non-rend attacks hardly do much unless fighting stuff with very low saves. I suppose they work for a more casual setting, but in competitive play, they just aren't worth their points. Just giving them rend or atleast 2" range would go a long way towards making them viable. But, just because you took the time to make this post, I will give them a go next time I play.

I think they are supposed to be Wardancers. Not sure what miniatures they are based on ( would love to know!) , but they would work great as Evocators (ruleswise)

Actually, it states that there cannot be another unit within 3", as the ability triggers after the charge move is completed. In other words, would there be restrictions to shooting with one unit first, then the second if the first volley doesn't kill the charging unit?

Something that survives 30 shots from Sisters of the Watch isn't really chaff, is it? 😜 Then again, is there really a precedent stating that they have to activate their abilities at the exact same time? As long as it's still finishing its charge move, it should be able to shoot at the first unit, right? Sequencing isn't really a detailed part of the rules. 🙄

Interesting idea. It'll be very mobile and have a great threat range. And the shooting should be pretty decent. The problem is that you have to get £412.5 (GW price) in just chariots, so this will be a really expensive army to build. 😅

When using Sisters or Handgunners, I'm starting to think that we probably do not need any screens if using the bridge. What I'll do is play 2x30 sisters and weave them together so that all 60 can stand and shoot whenever charged. The cool part about it is that you don't have to shoot both at the same time if they hit you with chaff first (not that a lot of chaff will survive the salvo ) Then just go for a mobile strike unit or two. Example list:

Portal. That's why the spell portal was the issue. Without it I could just stay far enough away to avoid the brunt of the spells.

You're right. The engine would just be a points sink. That is more if we really need the cp. But hopefully, one extra will suffice. Another option is of course to go for a general on foot and have a 50% chance of an extra. If you're running two dragons, that cp can be used to give them +1 on wound rolls. They need the hit modifier more, but it's still something. Something like this then maybe?

Sure, It was 5 casters (3 battlemages, one with ignax scales and then 2 sorceresses) A fleetmaster general 40+20+20 corsairs and 30 phoenix guard The thing that kills is elemental cyclone. Rolls as many dice as there are models in a unit, on a 4+ it does a mortal wound. That effectively halves a unit per turn. In this game, it killed a whole unit per turn because he got lucky with the dice rolls and I didn't have any battleshock immunity.

You're right. I probably need to get used to playing it before dumping the idea But I did notice that I had a limited amount of offensive power. Perhaps the Hurricanum is just too much of a points sink. I'm thinking just 1 caster and either phoenix or stardrake, not both. Or just a Black Dragon with Crossbow. Then a(nother) dragon (black with crossbow) and more shooting or mobile units. and of course a second command point. I have been contemplating the Penumbral Engine, but it might just be too much points.

So I tried it yesterday. Met one of the most competitive players at the club. He played a Hallowheart list which utterly destroyed me 😅 Conclusion: Mortal wounds are really dangerous to a monster list. And then of course the elemental cyclone meant one of my units was at least halved per turn. I couldn't stop any spells as he had +7 on casting rolls and the spell portal was the real killer. I have a feeling that they didn't really consider the endless spells and malign sorcery artefacts when they balanced Cities. Looking at several meta lists today (hallowheart, legions of nagash, legion of grief, slaanesh, khorne, ossiarch bonereapers and tzeentch to name a few), they all have one thing in common. Key characters that hide behind large screens and need to be sniped. And magic tends not to suffice as many of them ignore spells or mortal wounds. The answer? Probably just Longstrike Crossbows or something similar to be honest. Shadow Warriors should do a good job at sniping characters with a 2+ to hit in cover as well. Sisters of the Watch are really solid shooters but are extremely fragile and struggle with mobility. Therefore they need a delivery system to get in range (deep strike or Soulscream Bridge) I do think that Scourgerunner Chariots would work well here, but they are extremely costly money-wise as a 150 pt unit will set you back about 80 quid. Fielding 5-6 units of these would cost you an arm and a leg. And I don't even want to think about transporting 15-18 120x92mm bases. 😵 Another unit we might want to consider including to counter those really impactful spells would be the Knight-Incantor. Shutting down a portal could save you up to 20 models or a key monster. That is hundreds of points.

Will do! Trying it tonight!

I know, they're pretty much the same (+1 move and bravery) but what else can I do with 30 points? 😅 Yeah, but then it'll be out of range of the Phoenix aura, which would be unfortunate. So I think I'll play it safe with a shield instead. But that's what play testing is for!

Thanks for the input. You definitely have a point with the CP thing. I was thinking that this list might not be quite as dependant on it, but one option could be to swap out the Branchwych for a CP and upgrade the Freeguild guard to Bleakswords. Another would be to drop the Stardrake, but getting something with 2+ save and a shooting attack is rare. So I won't really have anything to move, save for the Sisters and the Hurricanum. I have considered a crossbow on the Black Dragon, but it feels so wasted to lose one save over it. And in this list, it's paired with the Phoenix which doesn't have any ranged attack anyway, so I might as well keep them as protected as possible. (-2 to wound on the Dragon should help, right?) I do realize that this list is vulnerable to mortal wounds, but then again, the only things Cities have that aren't are the Phoenixes and Phoenix Guard. Hopefully, striking first on the charge helps mitigate some of that, specifically versus Slaanesh and Khorne. FEC are still a hassle.

So, I've been brainstorming a bit after playing Tempest's Eye at a tournament last weekend (bridge list, went 3-2) and already getting fed up with the whole model Tetris playstyle I decided that a mobile army is more my thing, and I do love dragons.. So, here's a first version of the list I had in mind: The plan is to have the sisters deep strike together with the Branchwych and Drakesworn Templar. The sisters will clear screens, the Stardrake will act as a massive distraction Carnifex/tarpit and the other 3 behemoths; Phoenix, Black Dragon and Hurricanum will be the strike team with decent mobility, clearing the board, starting on one end. The battleline units will just be there for board control. I might swap out the spells a bit as cage of thorns would be nice on the Branchwych, but casting on a 7 could be unreliable Thoughts?

Ah, my bad. I didn't read the whole thing! But yeah. The 5+ save in particular has always irked me when it comes to WWR. Any attacks on them and they just fall apart. (And they upped the cost in the book, which seems really odd considering how rarely they were used before.) Maybe if they were like 110?

Yeah, that's a lot of tax for +1 charge. I agree that the same battalion with NP + 3xWR would definitely have been a different story. That's why I said 8+

The NP aura is for shooting only. If you want a Wanderers Battleline, go for Sisters for offense and Eternal Guard for defense. The thing that all those Battleline you listed have in common is: They are all tougher than Wildwood rangers. And cheaper per wound. I can see them filling the glass cannon role, but will they really outperform Sisters of the Watch? I highly doubt it, even when considering the points difference. And they both have the same situational Battleline.

The thing is, these monsters have a massive threat range (Bloodthirsters go up to like 46"?). You're only getting the charge on them if you deep-strike and roll an 8+ on an unprotected monster. Nagash will definitely have a screen, so will any Mortarch. They might seem appealing in theory, but they never live to hit things back, unlike Phoenix Guard.

Actually, the Nomad Prince is 20 points more than the Anointed. So for a NP and 20 WWR you're paying 380. For an Anointed and 20 PG you're paying 420. And the NP doesn't actually do anything for the WWR. The Anointed gives battleshock immunity and has a command ability giving them re-roll wound rolls. WWR are just rubbish.

Yeah. Wildwood Rangers are horrid. Both they and Executioners aren't worth their points, especially when we have much better options in Black Guard /Greatswords (offensive) and Phoenix Guard (defensive). The battalion is by far the worst one in Cities and shouldn't even be looked at in a competitive environment.

Actually, we have one wizard with 2 casts that can receive the trait: Lord Arcanum on Tauralon! 🤯

The only multi-cast wizard we have access to is Alarielle. And she can't take that trait. The only casters that have any bonuses are Sorceresses (+2 with sacrifice) and Battlemages (+1 with realm/Hurricanum or +2 with both) So we aren't really spoiled for powerful casters. We simply have a lot of basic ones (Hallowheart makes them twice as efficient).

That's about as optimal you can get the whole bridge-setup. You could go for a Wanderer/Aelf version of this with Sisters of the Watch, or go with Kharadron Arkanauts/Thunderers or Freeguild Crossbows/Handgunners or even Stormcast Ballistae/Raptors. The end result is about the same. I'm running a similar list with a bit of Stormcast mixed in (sub-optimal as I was limited by which miniatures I had available) for a tournament this weekend. The one thing I worry about with a list like this is the objective game. How do we cap multiple objectives? Might Shadow Warriors be the solution?

Yeah, I think you have a point. Durthu might not be optimal. I have tried him with a blade of Hammerhal Ghyra or the Kurdroth Warhorn, Ironoak Artisan and Hurricanum for 4 attacks with 2+/2+ which was fun. But then he just stood there for the rest of the game, so I see what you mean. I'm thinking a dragon instead? The thing about Sisters of the Thorn being battleline is only if your general is a Nomad Prince, and then you don't get the Ironoak Artisan CT. So I guess I could go with Phoenix, Drycha, 2x30 Sisters, Nomad Prince and some support. With the Nomad Prince as General I suppose I free up points from the battleline for other units. Is it worth giving up Ironoak Artisan on the Phoenix? List example: