AoS 2 - Living City Discussion

[Raffonerd]

On 12/3/2019 at 11:04 AM, Raffonerd said:

Yeah, but all of this is not worth a 2x in point cost. Anyway we cannot do anything about that

I'm going to try this:

Wanderers - > Rules

Waywatcher    120 - Genral Stalker
SpellWeaver    100
Strider    80 - Forget me not
Prince    120 ethereal amulet
Wayfinder    80
    
Sisters of Thorn    130
Wild Riders    130
Eternal Guards    260
Glade Guards    240
Sisters of Watch    320
Glade Guards    240
 
Waystone    160
    
Total    1980
 

Living city is not for wanderers!

Guys, I've test a similar list agains Ossiarch. The result was bad in terms of Massacre Points, average in terms of objectives. Not a huge loss, but really hard to kill them. Petrifex makes also their heroes hard to kill.

What I see is that only Sisters of Watch can deal against them. So I thought a list that brings Wanderers to their world's end: 

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- Mortal Realm: Aqshy
- City: Hallowheart
LEADERS
Battlemage (90)
- Spell : Lore of Whitefire - Elemental Cyclone (Hallowheart Wizard)
- Hallowheart 2nd Spell : Warding Brand
- Mortal Realm : Ghur
Battlemage (90)
- Artefact : Whitefire Tome - All Spells
- Mortal Realm : Hysh
Nomad Prince (120)
- General
- Command Trait : Warden of the Flame
Lord-Arcanum (160)
- Artefact : Ignax's Scales
- Spell : Lore of Whitefire - Sear Wounds (Hallowheart Wizard)
- City Role : General's Adjutant (Must be 6 wounds or less)
- Hallowheart 2nd Spell : Ignite Weapons
UNITS
5 x Sisters of the Thorn (130)
- Spell : Lore of Whitefire - Ignite Weapons (Hallowheart Wizard)
- Hallowheart 2nd Spell : Roaming Wildfire
- City Role : Honoured Retinue (Must be 5-20 models)
30 x Sisters of the Watch (480)
30 x Eternal Guard (330)
10 x Shadow Warriors (110)
10 x Shadow Warriors (110)
BATTALIONS
Whitefire Retinue (140)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Umbral Spellportal (70)
Soulscream Bridge (80)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)
TOTAL: 1970/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1 WOUNDS: 111
LEADERS: 4/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 0/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4
ARTEFACTS: 2/2 ALLIES: 0/400

Palisade can be added tho. Let's see. 

Anyway tactic is vary basic: Bridge, spell buff sisters with (pha, ignite weapons, brand, shield of thorn, mystic shield), clean with spellportal cyclone combo 1 unit, set up sisters + plus prince, double cp buff for +1 hit + reroll hit 1: 40 wounds to everything. Then clean the rest in 1/2 turns in CaC/shoting phase.

The real deal for Aelfs. More an High Elf army, but as I sayd, it's their world's end.

 

Edited December 12, 2019 by Raffonerd

[Rune]

1 hour ago, Raffonerd said:

Guys, I've test a similar list agains Ossiarch. The result was bad in terms of Massacre Points, average in terms of objectives. Not a huge loss, but really hard to kill them. Petrifex makes also their heroes hard to kill.

What I see is that only Sisters of Watch can deal against them. So I thought a list that brings Wanderers to their world's end: 

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- Mortal Realm: Aqshy
- City: Hallowheart
LEADERS
Battlemage (90)
- Spell : Lore of Whitefire - Elemental Cyclone (Hallowheart Wizard)
- Hallowheart 2nd Spell : Warding Brand
- Mortal Realm : Ghur
Battlemage (90)
- Artefact : Whitefire Tome - All Spells
- Mortal Realm : Hysh
Nomad Prince (120)
- General
- Command Trait : Warden of the Flame
Lord-Arcanum (160)
- Artefact : Ignax's Scales
- Spell : Lore of Whitefire - Sear Wounds (Hallowheart Wizard)
- City Role : General's Adjutant (Must be 6 wounds or less)
- Hallowheart 2nd Spell : Ignite Weapons
UNITS
5 x Sisters of the Thorn (130)
- Spell : Lore of Whitefire - Ignite Weapons (Hallowheart Wizard)
- Hallowheart 2nd Spell : Roaming Wildfire
- City Role : Honoured Retinue (Must be 5-20 models)
30 x Sisters of the Watch (480)
30 x Eternal Guard (330)
10 x Shadow Warriors (110)
10 x Shadow Warriors (110)
BATTALIONS
Whitefire Retinue (140)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Umbral Spellportal (70)
Soulscream Bridge (80)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)
TOTAL: 1970/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1 WOUNDS: 111
LEADERS: 4/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 0/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4
ARTEFACTS: 2/2 ALLIES: 0/400

Palisade can be added tho. Let's see. 

Anyway tactic is vary basic: Bridge, spell buff sisters with (pha, ignite weapons, brand, shield of thorn, mystic shield), clean with spellportal cyclone combo 1 unit, set up sisters + plus prince, double cp buff for +1 hit + reroll hit 1: 40 wounds to everything. Then clean the rest in 1/2 turns in CaC/shoting phase.

The real deal for Aelfs. More an High Elf army, but as I sayd, it's their world's end.

 

You're in the wrong topic if you want to discuss Hallowheart. But..

 

Are you making a list specifically only for OBR?

 

I think your list will be quite good against OBR. I personally use Handgunners and Crossbowmen as that is what I got, but also as they deal more damage per point cost (only really Crossbowmen does, at the loss of the overwatch). If I had sisters I would love to try a list with those.

 

Using sisters you need a nomad prince to get the battlelines or get the battlelines elsewhere which means you'll have more drops. For instance your list here has 7 drops and the one I'm running has just 5. I don't know how important that as as I'm a newer player, but I guess it's sort of meaningful.

 

Consider using the artifact Agloraxi Prism to defend one Battlemage from the crawlers. Also curious as to why you have ignite weapons on essentially 3 mages?

 

Your game plan is to bridge only the sisters and Prince and walk up the board with everything else? Why not bridge everything?

 

Hope you don't mind me asking!

Edited December 12, 2019 by Rune

[Tidings]

@RaffonerdI would consider replacing Eternal Guard with Phoenix Guard. I've played a few matches against OBR and Phoenix Guard worked better. Petrifex get's up to -2 rend, so your EG will die pretty easily without the 4+ shrug that PG have. 

For stronger shooting lists, just go TE. It's way better than Living city for a shooty army, and you have bonus protection from the catapults in the first turn too, since they struggle against armor.  Plus you get access to Arkanaut Company which wrecks anything it shoots at, especially OBR heroes. OBR really needs their heroes too, so killing them or forcing them to stay away from the units they need to buff is great.

Other than that, just generally try to avoid melee with OBR. They are better at it in every regard. 

EDIT: Forgot to say that Frostheart Phoenixes are the best counter to Mortek damage. OBR has so many ways to modify and reroll hits, but the Mortek Guard are stuck at wounding on 4+. Bumping that to 5+ drastically lowers their damage output. 

Edited December 12, 2019 by Tidings

[amsoly]

Just wanted to share progress on my living city army so far!  Still have a few bits that need paint. Not shown is 3 kurnoth hunters ready to roll too. 
 

Considering in 2k having Drycha and a dreadlord with repeater crossbow and lance for a nice little dual turn one charge (purchased command point). 
 

Overkill? Cheesy?

[Raffonerd]

16 hours ago, Rune said:

Consider using the artifact Agloraxi Prism to defend one Battlemage from the crawlers. Also curious as to why you have ignite weapons on essentially 3 mages?

Your game plan is to bridge only the sisters and Prince and walk up the board with everything else? Why not bridge everything?

Hope you don't mind me asking!

I see the point of drops. But i prefer to have shadow warriors then having less drop, cause of lack of mobility.

About point cost damage, I don't think so. Because with SoW I go for miss chance to hit 1/36 + mortals on wounds, which is better then crossbow rend - 1. (and I don't have them either way, I would like to use wanderers). 

On the artifact I'm still thinking. I will give a try to the Tome and then let see. Agloraxi Prism can be an option.

Tactically I think to spread into 2 points, so sisters and price with the bridge and mages with eternals on the other side (in order to forse the opponent in chosing one of the blocks). Shadow warr around. 

14 hours ago, Tidings said:

@RaffonerdI would consider replacing Eternal Guard with Phoenix Guard. I've played a few matches against OBR and Phoenix Guard worked better. Petrifex get's up to -2 rend, so your EG will die pretty easily without the 4+ shrug that PG have. 

For stronger shooting lists, just go TE. It's way better than Living city for a shooty army, and you have bonus protection from the catapults in the first turn too, since they struggle against armor.  Plus you get access to Arkanaut Company which wrecks anything it shoots at, especially OBR heroes. OBR really needs their heroes too, so killing them or forcing them to stay away from the units they need to buff is great.

Other than that, just generally try to avoid melee with OBR. They are better at it in every regard. 

EDIT: Forgot to say that Frostheart Phoenixes are the best counter to Mortek damage. OBR has so many ways to modify and reroll hits, but the Mortek Guard are stuck at wounding on 4+. Bumping that to 5+ drastically lowers their damage output. 

TE is not an option for wanderers. PG are better but they cost a lot and the remove me 1 bline choice. Either way this list has a great damage output against everyone. 

[Rune]

58 minutes ago, Raffonerd said:

I see the point of drops. But i prefer to have shadow warriors then having less drop, cause of lack of mobility.

About point cost damage, I don't think so. Because with SoW I go for miss chance to hit 1/36 + mortals on wounds, which is better then crossbow rend - 1. (and I don't have them either way, I would like to use wanderers). 

On the artifact I'm still thinking. I will give a try to the Tome and then let see. Agloraxi Prism can be an option.

Man I forgot the mortals on the wound roll. Gosh. Well, that changes it and you are absolutely right. The sisters deal a lot more damage. 

Only benefit of going with freeguild is the number of drops. If you don't go first a crawler can take out 1/3 of your sisters, but even then, the damage against save 3 is only 3 damage less than the freeguild package. And if a crawler takes out your sisters, that means you don't have to worry about your mages as much.

So it might be brilliant that you only have the sisters to use!

Edit: I could see you starve for command points. There is a 50% chance you only have 2 command points first turn, so you can't use Arcane Channeling, Volley & your nomad prince command ability. If you have to choose between re-roll 1s and +1 hit I suggest you go with +1 hit.. 

Edited December 13, 2019 by Rune

[Raffonerd]

1 hour ago, Rune said:

Man I forgot the mortals on the wound roll. Gosh. Well, that changes it and you are absolutely right. The sisters deal a lot more damage. 

Only benefit of going with freeguild is the number of drops. If you don't go first a crawler can take out 1/3 of your sisters, but even then, the damage against save 3 is only 3 damage less than the freeguild package. And if a crawler takes out your sisters, that means you don't have to worry about your mages as much.

So it might be brilliant that you only have the sisters to use!

Edit: I could see you starve for command points. There is a 50% chance you only have 2 command points first turn, so you can't use Arcane Channeling, Volley & your nomad prince command ability. If you have to choose between re-roll 1s and +1 hit I suggest you go with +1 hit.. 

I have 100% chance 2 have 2 cp first turn  Battalion + Basic one. Plus 75% in having 3 of them.  (General + Warden of Flames)

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by Raffonerd

[Tidings]

10 hours ago, Raffonerd said:

TE is not an option for wanderers. PG are better but they cost a lot and the remove me 1 bline choice. Either way this list has a great damage output against everyone. 

Well, it's actually a great option for Wanderers, but if you don't want to go that route then that's fine. Wanderers work great in Living City and Hallowheart as well. 

[a74xhx]

Got Sylvaneth, and some mages, want tanks. First pass of a list ended up with this. Like the idea of trying it, but doubt I'm going to hold any objectives with 21 models. I'd probably Deepstrike two groups of Kurnoth + tank. Going to try a total rethink....

 

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Living City
Steam Tank with Commander (250)
- General
Battlemage (90)
Steam Tank (200)
Steam Tank (200)
Steam Tank (200)
9 x Kurnoth Hunters (600)
- Scythes
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (200)
- Greatswords
3 x Gyrocopters (180)
1 x Gyrobombers (80)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Wounds: 130

 

[Raffonerd]

On 12/13/2019 at 9:22 PM, Tidings said:

Well, it's actually a great option for Wanderers, but if you don't want to go that route then that's fine. Wanderers work great in Living City and Hallowheart as well. 

Why do you think that TE is a good option? I don't see that... 

[Tidings]

2 hours ago, Raffonerd said:

Why do you think that TE is a good option? I don't see that... 

• Hawk-Eyed General gives a +1 to wound aura for missile weapons, great for Sister's shooting.
• Command ability lets you shoot after running - also great for Sisters, especially if you aren't using the bridge. You want to spend as few turns moving as possible so anything that helps you get into the right position to stay put and shoot is great, and this lets you shoot while doing it. I find this to be much better than Living City's CA for Sisters because they have relatively short range. You don't often need to move after shooting, but you DO often need a few extra inches of range to hit a priority target. 
• Alert and Forewarned helps Wanderers where they are weak. We are not as fast as many current armies who have crazy bonuses to move. We don't have good armor. This lets you aggressively move onto objectives and survive their first turn of all-out damage. This is especially good for Eternal Guard who, just like Sisters, really want to get in position ASAP and then stay still during all the fighting. Moving an extra 4" on the first turn is really good for that. 
  Yes this buff is only on the first turn, but most of the damage in AoS happens on turns 1 and 2. Since we don't usually get to choose if we are going first or not, it's very good to have such a strong turn 1 bonus to protect from alpha strikes (which are usually very rough on Wanderers), and the movement makes opponents consider going first because you CAN turn 1 charge them or alpha-bunker with tons of EG. 
• The spell lore is solid, having a 30" MW spell is really useful and Aura of Glory is amazing on EG who are pretty savage in combat, despite not having rend. You can also put it on Wild Riders that are about to charge. 
• Last little bonus, if you like using the old Glade Riders, they can be used (or converted, if you are picky) as Outriders which are battleline in Tempest's Eye. Outriders are cheap, have decent shooting, are fast and can always shoot after retreating or running. Those rules are more Wanderers than most Wanderer warscrolls lol. Great battleline option. 

 

I don't think any other city makes as much sense for Wanderers, sadly. Living city heals multi-wound models, which we don't really have. The ambushing mechanic doesn't help Wanderers a whole lot because we don't have units that can individually move aggressively on their own and survive, and you can't realistically ambush your entire army behind the target you want. Besides, if you want to ambush/deepstrike, Shadow Warriors already do that better and are dirt cheap for what they do. Sure you can do that with Sylvaneth units, but that has nothing to do with Wanderers.

Hallowheart is awesome but we don't even have casters as Wanderers, so Hallowheart isn't helping us there. I guess the the massive battleshock immunity bubble is great cause with Wanderers in Hallowheart you'll need it lol.

The rest don't warrant discussion imo. 

[Raffonerd]

 

42 minutes ago, Tidings said:

• Hawk-Eyed General gives a +1 to wound aura for missile weapons, great for Sister's shooting.
• Command ability lets you shoot after running - also great for Sisters, especially if you aren't using the bridge. You want to spend as few turns moving as possible so anything that helps you get into the right position to stay put and shoot is great, and this lets you shoot while doing it. I find this to be much better than Living City's CA for Sisters because they have relatively short range. You don't often need to move after shooting, but you DO often need a few extra inches of range to hit a priority target. 
• Alert and Forewarned helps Wanderers where they are weak. We are not as fast as many current armies who have crazy bonuses to move. We don't have good armor. This lets you aggressively move onto objectives and survive their first turn of all-out damage. This is especially good for Eternal Guard who, just like Sisters, really want to get in position ASAP and then stay still during all the fighting. Moving an extra 4" on the first turn is really good for that. 
  Yes this buff is only on the first turn, but most of the damage in AoS happens on turns 1 and 2. Since we don't usually get to choose if we are going first or not, it's very good to have such a strong turn 1 bonus to protect from alpha strikes (which are usually very rough on Wanderers), and the movement makes opponents consider going first because you CAN turn 1 charge them or alpha-bunker with tons of EG. 
• The spell lore is solid, having a 30" MW spell is really useful and Aura of Glory is amazing on EG who are pretty savage in combat, despite not having rend. You can also put it on Wild Riders that are about to charge. 
• Last little bonus, if you like using the old Glade Riders, they can be used (or converted, if you are picky) as Outriders which are battleline in Tempest's Eye. Outriders are cheap, have decent shooting, are fast and can always shoot after retreating or running. Those rules are more Wanderers than most Wanderer warscrolls lol. Great battleline option. 

I don't think any other city makes as much sense for Wanderers, sadly. Living city heals multi-wound models, which we don't really have. The ambushing mechanic doesn't help Wanderers a whole lot because we don't have units that can individually move aggressively on their own and survive, and you can't realistically ambush your entire army behind the target you want. Besides, if you want to ambush/deepstrike, Shadow Warriors already do that better and are dirt cheap for what they do. Sure you can do that with Sylvaneth units, but that has nothing to do with Wanderers.

Hallowheart is awesome but we don't even have casters as Wanderers, so Hallowheart isn't helping us there. I guess the the massive battleshock immunity bubble is great cause with Wanderers in Hallowheart you'll need it lol.

The rest don't warrant discussion imo. 

Ya, but it don't think that TE would be better than Hallowheart for wanderers. I'll sit on my list, which is the above one.  

[swarmofseals]

On 12/13/2019 at 2:17 AM, Rune said:

Only benefit of going with freeguild is the number of drops.

I may have missed the thread a bit if you are commenting on a very specific list, but I think you are overstating your case a bit. If you are looking to optimize your damage, crossbows are better than handgunners. You can also buff the Freeguild stuff so that both units are on 2+/2+ even without ignite weapons. I think that often times SotW will be better than Freeguild offensively on paper, but in practice it's less clear cut. Crossbows have the advantage of range but lose out on the stand and shoot, while Handgunners suffer much less of a penalty from moving and also have a stronger stand and shoot relative to their baseline (they will only lose 1 to hit for the enemy will be within 3", while SotW will lose 1 attack since the enemy is within 3").

Also, I think you might have made an error in your table. SotW have a max unit size of 20, so the ignite weapons will only affect 20 models and not all 30. 

Of course, there is one other important factor that your analysis is ignoring: defensive efficiency. SotW are very fragile. 50 wounds will take quite a bit more to kill than 30 wounds will. This is particularly relevant in ranged vs. ranged combat.

 

______________________________________________

In other news, Alarielle dropping by 60 and Durthu dropping by 40 is pretty interesting for Living City. TLA dropping by 40 might be relevant too. 

[amsoly]

Possibly 180 for a treelord too!  Very interesting.  Feels like a pretty good deal. 

[swarmofseals]

I'm less excited about that one. At 180 the Treelord's damage efficiency is still pretty low. Defensive efficiency is OK but nothing special. The stomp is interesting as a support ability, but given that only 1 in 4 units can be Sylvaneth I think you're going to want to take something more impactful.

[amsoly]

True true - I just enjoy the basic treelord model and 180 isn’t so bad. I wouldn’t feel intentionally being bad playing it. 
 

Also - the AOS app is showing wild riders as battle line when the nomad prince is your general..  hoping this is true!

[Aelfric]

4 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

SotW have a max unit size of 20, so the ignite weapons will only affect 20 models and not all 30. 

SotW have a max unit size of 30.  It is SotT that have a max unit size of 20.  

[swarmofseals]

oops, my bad! don't know I got that crossed up.

[Aelfric]

Now that the Drakesworn Templar is down 40 to 420 points, I'm even more tempted to get one to ambush with ( possibly combined  with a unit of Concussors). The Lord Celestant on Stardrake is now 500 points (down 60), but probably better in Tempest's Eye.

[swarmofseals]

19 hours ago, Aelfric said:

Now that the Drakesworn Templar is down 40 to 420 points, I'm even more tempted to get one to ambush with ( possibly combined  with a unit of Concussors). The Lord Celestant on Stardrake is now 500 points (down 60), but probably better in Tempest's Eye.

it's an interesting option, for sure. It does need to beat Dracothian Guard though (I'd probably go with Desolators or Fulminators depending on the size of the unit). 

The average damage output of a Drakesworn Templar's melee profile is pretty meh. The average damage with the arc hammer setup is a pitiful 6.89 rend 1 damage. Cavernous Jaws is a bit hard to conceptualize, but basically 3 bites break down like this:

• vs 1 wound target: 2.5 mw
• vs 2 wound target: 4 mw
• vs 3 wound target: 4.5 mw
• vs 4 wound target: 4 mw
• vs 5 wound target: 2.5 mw

With the added bonus of being able to target specific models. The Starfall attack is another 3.5 mw on average with the advantage of hitting anywhere on the board. The tail attack is also hard to conceptualize, but it'll probably add another 2-4 mw on average. 

So overall you are likely looking at something on the order of 8-12 mw and 6.89 rend 1 damage total for 420 points.

4 Fulminators will average 4 mw of shooting and then 24.67 rend 1 damage for 400 points (with a total of 4 more wounds, rerolls of 1 to save, and built in +1 save vs shooting). You do have less movement and lack of flying though, which could be awkward. 

 

[amsoly]

4 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

it's an interesting option, for sure. It does need to beat Dracothian Guard though (I'd probably go with Desolators or Fulminators depending on the size of the unit). 

The average damage output of a Drakesworn Templar's melee profile is pretty meh. The average damage with the arc hammer setup is a pitiful 6.89 rend 1 damage. Cavernous Jaws is a bit hard to conceptualize, but basically 3 bites break down like this:

• vs 1 wound target: 2.5 mw
• vs 2 wound target: 4 mw
• vs 3 wound target: 4.5 mw
• vs 4 wound target: 4 mw
• vs 5 wound target: 2.5 mw

With the added bonus of being able to target specific models. The Starfall attack is another 3.5 mw on average with the advantage of hitting anywhere on the board. The tail attack is also hard to conceptualize, but it'll probably add another 2-4 mw on average. 

So overall you are likely looking at something on the order of 8-12 mw and 6.89 rend 1 damage total for 420 points.

4 Fulminators will average 4 mw of shooting and then 24.67 rend 1 damage for 400 points (with a total of 4 more wounds, rerolls of 1 to save, and built in +1 save vs shooting). You do have less movement and lack of flying though, which could be awkward. 

 

But it’s a freakin dragon.

 

No but for real appreciate the math.  I think for living cities the flying can make for some more adventurous deployments and subsequent escapes.  
 

Speaking for only my local meta monsters tend to draw a lot of fire (sometimes more than they deserve) so depending on the plan the Stardrake can make a fantastic distraction. Now granted I’m sure 4 dracoth riders will likely have the same impact anyway...

 

I think what is exciting for me with the point changes is seeing what new fun builds you can Tetris together.  Next 1k I’m planning to try will be:

Nomad prince general, Druid trait, spear of the hunt, iron oak spell

battlemage, cage of thorns, adjutant

2x10 sisters of the watch 

5 wildriders 

10 Phoenix guard (retinue)

1 treelord

Strategy is so unexpected and new.

Nomad Prince and battlemage roll with the Phoenix guard - potentially with one unit of sisters nearby (they may deploy through hidden cities sometimes mission depending) 

Treelord is there to look sweet and support a unit of sisters deploying from hidden paths. 
 

I’ve been running the wild riders deployed on field since they have a 12” move and are handy to grab an early objective. 
 

Once our group starts to expand into 2k games options will really open up and I’ll bring Drycha back - freshly painted to appease the paint gods for blessed dice. 

[Nasrod]

Stupid question, but Alarielle's point cost decrease had me looking at her again. I have never been able to convince myself to invest in Sylvaneth due to the steep price investment; Spites, Wildwoods, and limited availability Arch-Revenant all scare me away.

It was only today that I learned she can be taken in CoS...free from the baggage I see within Sylvaneth.

Is there any list that would be at least casually competitive that utilizes Alarielle + at least one unit of Kurnoth hunters + at least one unit of Sisters of the Thorn? I love each of these sculpts. 

Not looking for anyone to build a list for me, just more of a yes/no, and if yes, some general ideas of supplementary units that could form the core of the army. 

[The Red King]

My list uses everything you want but I can't speak to it's competitiveness. 

 

Do remember Alarielle can summon 3 kurnoth hunters for free so every list with alarielle is a list with hunters. As for SotT they really shine if you have a block of 20 Eternal Guard to buff to a 2+ save (when standing still).

[swarmofseals]

On 12/19/2019 at 4:33 AM, Nasrod said:

Is there any list that would be at least casually competitive that utilizes Alarielle + at least one unit of Kurnoth hunters + at least one unit of Sisters of the Thorn? I love each of these sculpts. 

I've been thinking about this too. The ability to deepstrike and then use the command ability to reposition after shooting makes any unit that has both a shooting attack and then a decent melee profile potentially worth looking at for Living City. The most obvious choices are the Drakesworn Templar, Spirit of Durthu, Dracothian Guard, and Alarielle. 

Personally I don't like the Drakesworn Templar option for the reasons I mentioned earlier in the thread -- it just doesn't do enough damage to justify the cost, particularly if you are ambushing with it and thus making it particularly vulnerable to counter-attack. 

The other three options break down like this (using WDR, my formula that allows you to compare damage efficiency across rend. Higher numbers are better):

Durthu: .0667

Alarielle (valued at 400 points to account for the free unit, with +1 to hit with antlers bonus, NOT counting impact hit) .0647

6 Desolators: .0948

Note that these include both ranged and melee attacks.

The most efficient unit is clearly the Desolators, but Durthu can catch up with the use of artefacts/command traits. Durthu at 2+/2+ (Ghyrstrike) goes up to .0942. +1 Attacks ends up at .0927.

Both Durthu and Desolators carry the disadvantage of not flying, and Desolators have the additional disadvantage of requiring another character to be close by for the command ability. Durthu and Alarielle are, of course, self sufficient in this regard.

Alarielle can be given +1 attack as well by giving the +1A artefact to a different hero. That boosts her up to .0846, so competitive with the other choices but still clearly a tick lower. 

Her advantage though is that she flies, has a massive move range and then goes on to provide a bunch of nice support abilities. She also can be used in more dynamic ways. For example, you can ambush with her, summon a Treelord, shoot with both and move the Treelord in for a charge to tarpit some enemy units while flying Alarielle back behind your lines (or toward an isolated enemy unit.) You could also get her stuck in along with her summoned unit if it seems safe to do that. 

With Durthu and the Desolators you are pretty much committed to getting them fully stuck in. 

Durthu can be pretty tanky, with 12 wounds and a 2+ or 3+ save for 300 points. For the 2+ build that's a defensive efficiency range of .24 to .0833. 

Alarielle is less tanky, with a defensive efficiency range of .12 to .04.

The Desolators clearly win out with a defensive efficiency range of .045 to .05.

So  yeah, I think that Alarielle should be at least casual-competitive viable and might actually be fully competitive viable. 

[amsoly]

Mind sharing some info about your stats?  Link to another post maybe?  Not that I doubt the numbers (they’re about what I’d imagine for each unit) but interested in seeing the work!

 

i think the alarielle treelord drop and fly away could be pretty fun assuming the treelord lives through the turn to get some healing off and keep him in the game a bit longer. [Note: alarielle has a base larger than 6” so you can’t deploy with hidden pathways with rules as written]
 

Side note I have some Phoenix guard coming so excited to get them put together and painted and I’ll probably paint a treelord up this weekend since 180 feels like a fair price to throw that in someone’s face. 
 

Anyone picking up holiday swag for the LC?

Edited December 21, 2019 by amsoly
Incorrect info.