AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion

[Sooper88]

Ah, I see. I don't run either if those two. I probably will eventually.

[El Antiguo Guardián]

13 hours ago, Sooper88 said:

I've been using 40/10/10, mostly because getting off that first activation with 30+ Morteks swinging can wreak havoc, especially when buffed up with Endless Duty and/or Bludgeon. The 10 man units are there generally just to screen or threaten objectives, and can still do some decent damage if they can charge at full strength.

 

Why do you prefer 20/20/20? Spreading the power around a little more?

10 are not enough for me. Units of 20 are great and more with Katakros and Arkhan.

The unit of 40... I used to loved it in the past, on Petrifex time, but today I prefer another things.

[Shmaravoz]

Check out this battle report! Lumineth vs OBR

 

[Major]

In case anyone wants a laugh. Tried this over the weekend with more success than I would have though.

Important to note:
- This is also still great with Petrifex as you can add some additional rend in there which can prove really strong paired with Endless Duty.
- You can also sub out the Harvesters for Arkhan plus Shrieker spell if you want to make it easier for your arty to hit and prefer guaranteed regen on your b-line. 
- Down side is 3 Crawlers are a considerable monetary investment and there are more well rounded lists out there that are perhaps not as funny but more competitive.
- Don't expect board control with this slow-ass army. But with range of 36" on those bad boys, expect them to come to you!
- 3+1D3 RD points plus 10 chances on the D6.
- Not handy in scenarios requiring lots of heroes, but not the end of the world if your sniping your opponents 5 wound heroes turn 1 anyway

Follow me for more great recipes....

[Greasygeek]

Quick question that Im not sure I have the correct answer to yet.

Protection of Nagash.

Lets say Nagash casts the PoN spell.

If he would suffer a wound and I choose to use his Deathless Warriors 6+ save instead of the 5+ given from the spell, will he then still be forced to teleport?

 

Thanks in advance🙂

[Benji]

10 hours ago, Greasygeek said:

Quick question that Im not sure I have the correct answer to yet.

Protection of Nagash.

Lets say Nagash casts the PoN spell.

If he would suffer a wound and I choose to use his Deathless Warriors 6+ save instead of the 5+ given from the spell, will he then still be forced to teleport?

 

Thanks in advance🙂

Yes, he teleports when 'any wounds or mortal wounds are allocated to the caster and not negated, and the caster is not slain'. There is no teleport condition related to him failing the specific PoN save.

[El Antiguo Guardián]

During these weeks I though that this day was just a dream, but here I am, with my 15 Kavalos riders painted. You have the tutorial for the armours on my channel (both eng and esp) and during the next week I will upload another one for the bones.

The bases are impriwars bases, they´re magnetic. If you like the webpage, he is doing international shipping, and you can use my code for a 10% discount (just for channel members, is on the description of all the latest videos).

 

[Greasygeek]

Nice contrast between the dark and light part of the bones. Looks good.

[El Antiguo Guardián]

On 10/17/2020 at 1:26 PM, Greasygeek said:

Nice contrast between the dark and light part of the bones. Looks good.

Thank you mate!

 

EDIT:

 

This is the tutorial for the bones. I hope you like it.

 

 

Edited October 18, 2020 by El Antiguo Guardián
tutorial

[Plp]

On 10/6/2020 at 6:27 AM, Major said:

In case anyone wants a laugh. Tried this over the weekend with more success than I would have though.

Important to note:
- This is also still great with Petrifex as you can add some additional rend in there which can prove really strong paired with Endless Duty.
- You can also sub out the Harvesters for Arkhan plus Shrieker spell if you want to make it easier for your arty to hit and prefer guaranteed regen on your b-line. 
- Down side is 3 Crawlers are a considerable monetary investment and there are more well rounded lists out there that are perhaps not as funny but more competitive.
- Don't expect board control with this slow-ass army. But with range of 36" on those bad boys, expect them to come to you!
- 3+1D3 RD points plus 10 chances on the D6.
- Not handy in scenarios requiring lots of heroes, but not the end of the world if your sniping your opponents 5 wound heroes turn 1 anyway

Follow me for more great recipes....

you have 5 behemoths on the list ... I don't think it's playable in matched play

[El Syf]

Since The Great Nerf has any one else not been too bothered about painting their remaining models?

I’ve only got 20 morteks and a soul mason left and have been looking at null myriad lists but it really took the wind out of my sails. 

Also there’s a meta watch article on the community site, where they point out since they ruined petrifex everyone’s now just using pretty much one build of Morris praetorians which made me laugh. (They also don’t say they ruined petrifex)

[Greasygeek]

Not at all.

I started painting my Bonereapers this spring and only had my first game with them last week. It was loads of fun and I went 3-1 against a Kroak list, Fyreslayers and Daughters.

They faced my Nagash list and now Im busy painting Deathriders so I can try them out also.

 

[Sception]

I've been plenty motivated to paint, but have been slammed by work over the last month or two and haven't had time or energy for it. 

[rosa]

I just started Bonereapers because Petrifex was nerved. I am really happy with them and motivated

[Cargo Cult]

I’ve completely failed to paint Arkhan due to work. Boo hiss.

[Sooper88]

On 10/23/2020 at 2:49 AM, El Syf said:

Since The Great Nerf has any one else not been too bothered about painting their remaining models?

I’ve only got 20 morteks and a soul mason left and have been looking at null myriad lists but it really took the wind out of my sails. 

Also there’s a meta watch article on the community site, where they point out since they ruined petrifex everyone’s now just using pretty much one build of Morris praetorians which made me laugh. (They also don’t say they ruined petrifex).

The Katakros, Guard and Catapults is really the only competitive build and even then it has a lot of weaknesses  that can be easily exploited by the top tier armies, mainly lack of maneuverability and shooting/magic.

Having big blocks of hard to remove Mortek Guard backed by Katakros is really good in scenarios where objectives are close together and you can park the guard on top, but otherwise you're destined to get out maneuvered and/or out shot by KO, Seraphon, IDK and Tzeentch.

IMO almost everything in the OBR book right now besides Katakros, Mortek Guard and Crawlers range from bad/overcosted to mediocre. And besides MP with Katakros, the factions all seem pretty weak, with PE still probably being the best all around (mainly due to Bludgeon being a necessity for extra rend when your army has very little mortal wound output) despite being neutered. 

Null Myriad doesn't seem even all that great even against an army like Seraphon, which is probably the best use of it, as you're more or less only partially shutting down Kroak and even then FOS is still crapping out MW and shots elsewhere with skinks and salamanders while dancing circles around you.

Stalliach Lords seems potentially good on paper but other than the run and charge, the benefits are all pretty meh and your only fast unit (Deathriders) don't hit hard enough to provide a threatening alpha strike for how expensive they are.

Crematorians is meme tier basically but can be good in mirror matches maybe or other tanky melee armies.

Ivory Host is just absolutely terrible.

Edited October 24, 2020 by Sooper88

[Lucky Snake Eyes]

1 hour ago, Sooper88 said:

The Katakros, Guard and Catapults is really the only competitive build and even then it has a lot of weaknesses  that can be easily exploited by the top tier armies, mainly lack of maneuverability and shooting/magic.

Having big blocks of hard to remove Mortek Guard backed by Katakros is really good in scenarios where objectives are close together and you can park the guard on top, but otherwise you're destined to get out maneuvered and/or out shot by KO, Seraphon, IDK and Tzeentch.

IMO almost everything in the OBR book right now besides Katakros, Mortek Guard and Crawlers range from bad/overcosted to mediocre. And besides MP with Katakros, the factions all seem pretty weak, with PE still probably being the best all around (mainly due to Bludgeon being a necessity for extra rend when your army has very little mortal wound output) despite being neutered. 

Null Myriad doesn't seem even all that great even against an army like Seraphon, which is probably the best use of it, as you're more or less only partially shutting down Kroak and even then FOS is still crapping out MW and shots elsewhere with skinks and salamanders while dancing circles around you.

Stalliach Lords seems potentially good on paper but other than the run and charge, the benefits are all pretty meh and your only fast unit (Deathriders) don't hit hard enough to provide a threatening alpha strike for how expensive they are.

Crematorians is meme tier basically but can be good in mirror matches maybe or other tanky melee armies.

Ivory Host is just absolutely terrible.

I find Seraphon aren't too bad to face, been bouncing between myriad and stalliarch lately and 40 mortek guard getting the run and charge can be scary. My next list is more or less gonna be derivative of the praetorians list sad to say but my local meta is dominated by idoneth and lumineth. The local idoneth players are really good at playing eel spam and high tide can make even knife to the heart a tough match to play. As for lumineth the lack of stacking saves ruined our protection from mortals and while I've only had a couple of games against alarith stuff (that where actually pretty fun) the vanari spam lists with teclis hard counter by ignoring our one good mechanic in reliable saves. Tbh lumineth are just a bad play experience in general since the spells and abilities people are taking to deal with salamanders and KO are wasted points by ignoring LoS 5+ mortal wounds... 

My rants about lumineth aside I did pull a win against them at a recent tournament but I basically had to play crouching-idiot-hidden-badass with my deathriders to snag objectives late in the game to force a 1 point lead. unfortunately that game and a close game against fyreslayers where the only games out of 5 when the deathriders put in any work. So my next list will look something like this:

MP because I need something to survive morsaar charges and rending shots

Katakros - general

Zandtos for the wound reroll to increase efficiency

1x6 stalkers for semi fast heavy hitters with charge reliability

1 catapult for range threat (honestly just gonna turn one endless duty + still their breath and snipe support pieces)

1x40 and 2x10 mortek 

 

I'm basically forced to try to push two fronts at once with the 40 stack and the stalkers and use the 2x10s to screen backline and sit objectives. only viable gameplan is snipe out support pieces and ranged threats early and pressure but this still loses out to idoneth with some allied aetherwings, their just not a matchup we're currently built to handle.

Yeah 1 out of 6 sub factions is literally a waste of paper and 2 more are waaay to matchup dependent but our real issue is lack of efficient fast units (as deathriders hit like noodles and morghasts equally flounder) and the loss of our mortal wound protection (no longer stacking low save chance rolls and just getting a 6+ or 5+ at the cost of a spell that's easily unbound) Yeah another shooting unit would be nice, i still wishlist for mid size constructs like immortis/stalkers with ballistae built into their bodies, and a nagash rework would benefit multiple armies but our core problem is lack of maneuverability/body count to make up for it and no protection from the most aggressive mortal wound lists as we on average have lower total wound counts to our opponents.

Edited October 24, 2020 by Lucky Snake Eyes

[Sooper88]

4 hours ago, Lucky Snake Eyes said:

I find Seraphon aren't too bad to face, been bouncing between myriad and stalliarch lately and 40 mortek guard getting the run and charge can be scary. My next list is more or less gonna be derivative of the praetorians list sad to say but my local meta is dominated by idoneth and lumineth. The local idoneth players are really good at playing eel spam and high tide can make even knife to the heart a tough match to play. As for lumineth the lack of stacking saves ruined our protection from mortals and while I've only had a couple of games against alarith stuff (that where actually pretty fun) the vanari spam lists with teclis hard counter by ignoring our one good mechanic in reliable saves. Tbh lumineth are just a bad play experience in general since the spells and abilities people are taking to deal with salamanders and KO are wasted points by ignoring LoS 5+ mortal wounds... 

My rants about lumineth aside I did pull a win against them at a recent tournament but I basically had to play crouching-idiot-hidden-badass with my deathriders to snag objectives late in the game to force a 1 point lead. unfortunately that game and a close game against fyreslayers where the only games out of 5 when the deathriders put in any work. So my next list will look something like this:

MP because I need something to survive morsaar charges and rending shots

Katakros - general

Zandtos for the wound reroll to increase efficiency

1x6 stalkers for semi fast heavy hitters with charge reliability

1 catapult for range threat (honestly just gonna turn one endless duty + still their breath and snipe support pieces)

1x40 and 2x10 mortek 

 

I'm basically forced to try to push two fronts at once with the 40 stack and the stalkers and use the 2x10s to screen backline and sit objectives. only viable gameplan is snipe out support pieces and ranged threats early and pressure but this still loses out to idoneth with some allied aetherwings, their just not a matchup we're currently built to handle.

Yeah 1 out of 6 sub factions is literally a waste of paper and 2 more are waaay to matchup dependent but our real issue is lack of efficient fast units (as deathriders hit like noodles and morghasts equally flounder) and the loss of our mortal wound protection (no longer stacking low save chance rolls and just getting a 6+ or 5+ at the cost of a spell that's easily unbound) Yeah another shooting unit would be nice, i still wishlist for mid size constructs like immortis/stalkers with ballistae built into their bodies, and a nagash rework would benefit multiple armies but our core problem is lack of maneuverability/body count to make up for it and no protection from the most aggressive mortal wound lists as we on average have lower total wound counts to our opponents.

Agreed on the fast units. I really want to like Deathriders but they're very awkward cavalry units. They're fast and quite resilient for cavalry but they don't hit very hard for their cost, unless maybe you use the wedge formation on a big block of them and an endless duty, and even then it's nothing to write home about for how much it costs. Morghasts are even worse. They don't hit very hard either, are less tanky, slower, have a smaller footprint for objectices and cost more. The only notably benefit is they marginally better at cracking higher armor enemies and have the bravery debuff but that doesn't seem all that useful for 190 points.

 

It seems like you either need to have a very mobile army, a very shooty army, or both, and OBR don't really have much in the way of either of those things currently.

[Lucky Snake Eyes]

50 minutes ago, Sooper88 said:

Agreed on the fast units. I really want to like Deathriders but they're very awkward cavalry units. They're fast and quite resilient for cavalry but they don't hit very hard for their cost, unless maybe you use the wedge formation on a big block of them and an endless duty, and even then it's nothing to write home about for how much it costs. Morghasts are even worse. They don't hit very hard either, are less tanky, slower, have a smaller footprint for objectices and cost more. The only notably benefit is they marginally better at cracking higher armor enemies and have the bravery debuff but that doesn't seem all that useful for 190 points.

 

It seems like you either need to have a very mobile army, a very shooty army, or both, and OBR don't really have much in the way of either of those things currently.

The thought has now occured to me that deathriders are literally just worse bloodknights. Same stats and points but no charge bonus (outside of a command ability that averages 1 wound per 5 riders) no self healing and no save buff. Demigryphs are less models but also have a charge buff option, more wounds per model, better mount profile and better in-faction support. Deathriders may be the best elite cav model-wise (until soulblight releases... i hope) but as far as rules go their near the back of the pack for a 180pt unit.

[El Antiguo Guardián]

On 10/23/2020 at 8:49 AM, El Syf said:

Since The Great Nerf has any one else not been too bothered about painting their remaining models?

I’ve only got 20 morteks and a soul mason left and have been looking at null myriad lists but it really took the wind out of my sails. 

Also there’s a meta watch article on the community site, where they point out since they ruined petrifex everyone’s now just using pretty much one build of Morris praetorians which made me laugh. (They also don’t say they ruined petrifex)

I made this video about that article.

 

 

But my opinion is a bit different.

[Sception]

Eh.  There hasn't been a long time to adjust, and they do note that katakros has not been an auto include.  If lists without katakros remain viable, then praetoreans shouldm't be an automatic choice for those lists, and I woyld eventually expect some stalliarch & petrifex play to start happening.  Maybe even some myriad with all the magic going around.

it's the unit selection rather than the subfaction stuff that's discouraging.  Even going from all petrifes to all praetoreans would be at worst a lateral shift, but losing the ac bonus from petrifex is a hard blow to nagash, atkhan, kavalos, and stalkers especially, which seems to be causing further consolidation around very similar builds of morteks & crawlers.

In their defense, gw did drop the points on stalkers, immortis and morghasts by 20 points each, which is about the most that they typically shift something at a time, and is more than I expected given the lack of data they had to work with.  I expect we'll see similar point drops next time around, and might see drops on kavalos & some of the less used heroes as well, though if we maintain any kind of regular top table placement we might also suffer increases to morteks, crawlers, and/or the shield wall formation.

[Sooper88]

22 hours ago, El Antiguo Guardián said:

I made this video about that article.

 

 

But my opinion is a bit different.

Does this bar graph take into account total play rate? Because I think that's quite important to keep in mind. If an army like Seraphon, which has a generally low play rate, can reach those win rates, that could mean they are even stronger than the chart indicates. OBR was very popular precovid, so them having a mediocre / slightly above total of top placements with a high play rate could also mean the opposite.

[El Antiguo Guardián]

I´m not sure but I don´t think so.

[Sooper88]

That's going to be an important figure in assessing the meta. Idk if there's anyway to find that out.

[Sooper88]

 

Thoughts on whether or not this seems like a somewhat tournament viable list that doesn't include Katakros?

7 Drops, which is a decent number for OBR. 5 + 10d6 RDP with Arcane Command, which I think is a solid amount in a list without Katakros.

I know PoN is not an amazing spell anymore now that it doesn't stack with DW but I still think it's worth considering in this case because keeping the Mason alive is extra important when he has a super useful 9" buff to wound rolls, and also helps him stay maneuverable and forces opponents to think twice about letting you potentially move him to swing a fight across the table. 

Ballistari, not an amazing battalion in it's own right but it was the only thing I could use with 100 points left. The extra RDP, item and lowering my drops is probably worth it all on its own so the added ability to screen hits for the crawlers is icing and could be useful.

I really want to use bigger units of Deathriders as a nice hammer but IMO they're just too expensive and are very RDP thirsty to hit hard enough to justify their points. I think one MSU is just right to have some extra reach for objective control, and 5 should be more than enough to take on your normal riff raff that would hold on to back line objectives.

Even a 10 man unit of mortek buffed with the Cartouche and Endless Duty is actually really hard hitting, even more so if you can stick Spirit Guide / Empower Nadrite Weapons on them. This list seems like a good way to have a nice sized footprint with several nice threats. Although I believe Katakros definitely on paper is super strong and is arguably better all around, I think the meta seems more focused on mobility atm and, not that OBR will ever be great at that IMO, Katakros leans into an even less mobile playstyle then they already are. Also, if Katakros isn't able to get into combat, the army can really struggle to get the most value out of him, and that's quite possible at movement 4". If he dies, you're SOL. This army has a lower ceiling but much more diversified threat range IMO.

 

Thoughts from anyone more experienced than myself? (Probably many of you, lol).

 

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Sooper88
Accidentally entered early