AoS 2 - Orruk Warclans Discussion

[Marcoangelo33]

@PlasticCraic Great job at Summer Smash.  Looks like the green boyz showed up! Great to see the hard work of testing and playing, pay off. Anything specific insight  or observations from your games that you would like to share. Perhaps surprising interactions or units that did better than expected?

[Arkahn]

30 minutes ago, Marcoangelo33 said:

Hit and Run tactics Continued:

I have been thinking a great deal about how to improve upon bloodtoofs and I keep coming to a point where i want more min units of Gore gruntas.  I think the ability to have two units of 3 hit an enemy unit, and then reposition one of them, could be very powerful.  I still believe that Ironfist (6x pigs with boss) is the best battalion to run with this because you can auto teleport outside 12 and then move them with mighty destroyers, into a great charge position.  I have been thinking about the list below quite a bit and I think it could work out well.  I have also thought about taking out the Maw Krusha (replace with footboss) and just adding more pig units as well.  This build should have some solid CP generation as well and can keep up with repositions.  Also at 1960, you can expect to get a triumph most games.   

Allegiance: Ironjawz

- Mortal Realm: Hysh

- Warclan: Bloodtoofs

LEADERS Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)

- General - Command Trait : Get Da Realmgate

- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa

- Artefact : Quickduff Amulet

Orruk Warchanter (110) - Artefact : Aetherquartz Brooch

Orruk Warchanter (110)

Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90) - Allies

UNITS

6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)

3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)  

3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)

3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160) 

10 x Orruk Ardboys

(180) BATTALIONS Ironfist

(160) ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS

Extra Command Point (50)

1960

It will be harder to screen before you will want to unleash your MK and/or 6 GGs, with only one unit of 10 Ardboyz, no ? 

And you will miss the -3 rend on the megaboss attack, I guess. 

[PlasticCraic]

19 hours ago, Kasper said:

So a couple of days late, but Big Waaagh completely smashed it at Summer Smash in Australia, getting #1, #2 and #3! Congrats btw.   @PlasticCraic 

I'm a little sad that the lists don't have their spells selected. I'm curious what the Wardokk had in the 1st list. Cheap access to Gorkamorka's Warcry, or is he there to stack saves on the Savage Orruks so they can tank an objective?

Thanks Kasper!  Yeah it was a great result all round.

At this event you picked your spells each round (!).  Joel was using the Wardokk purely for save stacking.

I took Breath on the Weirdnob every time.  Partly cos it's the most important spell so I wanted the reroll, partly because if your opponent is just standing there waiting to be hit you can switch gears and put the banging 6s on instead.

The Wardokk I switched between Brutal BS (mainly if Arrow Boys were going to need to be buffed), and Kunnin BS (if I wanted to stack saves).  Depending on opponent and Battleplan.

Dalton did the same I believe, but with an extra Wizard he took both BBS and KBS.

[PlasticCraic]

8 hours ago, Marcoangelo33 said:

@PlasticCraic Great job at Summer Smash.  Looks like the green boyz showed up! Great to see the hard work of testing and playing, pay off. Anything specific insight  or observations from your games that you would like to share. Perhaps surprising interactions or units that did better than expected?

Thanks man!  Yeah we smashed it, can't believe we took the whole podium between us!

I just did a whole big write-up, check it out:

https://plasticcraic.blog/2020/02/27/summer-smash-tournament-review-big-wins-for-the-big-waaagh/

Joel and Dalton will be doing interviews for the Blog too, hoping to get those published within the next week.

I don't know if it counts as a surprise, but it was definitely a highlight when 6x Gore Gruntas wiped out 60 wounds from a 109 wound army in the first Battleround :-)

And my biggest mistake was underestimating Stonehorns...(for me) it's one thing "knowing" they count as 10 models, but another thing to look at a table mid-game and assess them as such.  I was lucky to get away with that one.

Edited February 27, 2020 by PlasticCraic

[Kasper]

@PlasticCraic Love me some gloryhole-trap action. Need to find a way to implement this in my Ironjawz army so I can call my opponent out.

[Marcoangelo33]

17 hours ago, Arkahn said:

It will be harder to screen before you will want to unleash your MK and/or 6 GGs, with only one unit of 10 Ardboyz, no ? 

And you will miss the -3 rend on the megaboss attack, I guess. 

Great points, I should have been more clear.  I will certainly miss out on the -3 a lot, as I love that item and it is great for clearing out hard to kill units or securing kills outright.    As for the Screens, I would use 2x3 gg not the 10 man ardboyz.  The arboyz are just there to sit on an objective. Given that that is the case, maybe I should just take them in a 5 man instead.  

Also, I am curios, how is it that Big Waagh can take the Banner boss from greenskins?  I do not see them listed as allies in the book, are they just part of the faction?  

[Ravinsild]

I don't know if my experience counts for much, and I haven't attended a tournament yet, but I am practicing with my Ironjawz Bloodtoofz. I dropped the Wizard after 3 games because he produced little to nothing. I replaced him with an Orruk Megaboss.

I've been playing against an Idoneth Deepkin player mostly and struggling. He always deploys extremely safely. Turn 2 and 3 his threat range is ridiculous, Eels can move 17'' (he can add 3'' to their movement through some ability) and run and charge turn 2 so it's really 18'' - 23'' of movement + charging. My Megaboss on Maw-Krusha typically gets nuked before it can do anything. 

My Megaboss on foot in the last game leveled up 6 times getting up to 11 attacks and slaughtered everything. He was the MVP, in addition to my Gore-Gruntas who started as 6 and ended as 2 but just ground out the eels in slow back and forth combats after charges. My block of 20 Ardboyz camped 2 objectives all game long for the win, and just held strong after getting charged by Allopex 

I found Aetherquartz Brooch to be extremely swingy. 1 game I got literally nothing out of it. One game it seemed to go off every time. I don't know how I feel about it. Feast or Famine is neat, but maybe Metalripper's is just solidly consistent? 

[Kasper]

5 hours ago, Marcoangelo33 said:

Also, I am curios, how is it that Big Waagh can take the Banner boss from greenskins?  I do not see them listed as allies in the book, are they just part of the faction?  

Big Waagh isnt actually made up of Bonesplitterz and Ironjawz, but rather models keyworded with “Orruk”. The Warboss is keyworded as such, hence you can use it. It isnt even an ally.

Edited February 27, 2020 by Kasper

[Marcoangelo33]

6 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

I don't know if my experience counts for much, and I haven't attended a tournament yet, but I am practicing with my Ironjawz Bloodtoofz. I dropped the Wizard after 3 games because he produced little to nothing. I replaced him with an Orruk Megaboss.

I've been playing against an Idoneth Deepkin player mostly and struggling. He always deploys extremely safely. Turn 2 and 3 his threat range is ridiculous, Eels can move 17'' (he can add 3'' to their movement through some ability) and run and charge turn 2 so it's really 18'' - 23'' of movement + charging. My Megaboss on Maw-Krusha typically gets nuked before it can do anything. 

My Megaboss on foot in the last game leveled up 6 times getting up to 11 attacks and slaughtered everything. He was the MVP, in addition to my Gore-Gruntas who started as 6 and ended as 2 but just ground out the eels in slow back and forth combats after charges. My block of 20 Ardboyz camped 2 objectives all game long for the win, and just held strong after getting charged by Allopex 

I found Aetherquartz Brooch to be extremely swingy. 1 game I got literally nothing out of it. One game it seemed to go off every time. I don't know how I feel about it. Feast or Famine is neat, but maybe Metalripper's is just solidly consistent? 

It is great hearing about your experience! You are right, Aetherquartz is extremely swingy, I didnt know what else to put there haha

Man, 100%  I am with you on those wizards in Bloodtoofs; that saaid, I like the CP generation and I feel like 90 points is really good for that + unbind/dispell. My main list has had no wizard and had a footboss with the qduff amulet and MK with metalripper. 

Eels are really difficult to deal with but it seems that more ardboyz is one of our better options to deal with them.   I think a block of 20 arboyz is fantastic, they can take a punch and still fight back with violent fury. Ultimately though,  I think that there are so many  armies and so many builds,  that it is so difficult to deal with all of them.  Because of this,  the best one can do, with Bloodtoofs, is maximize your armies strengths or "uniqueness" and try and use this, to overcome those flaws or unanswerable builds and armies.   I guess one would say you "skew" into that strength.

With this being said, I feel as though Bloodtoofs unique property is its incredible movement (+1 run and Charge), auto teleport and of course,  the ability to move after combat. In order to gain more value out of that specific and unique asset of the army (that also gives your opponent pause on decision making), we have to use fast moving units, that can punch hard enough to move after combat.  That gives us the Maw-Krusha and the Pigs, who can move far enough after combat, to make an impact in your next turn, or your opponents next turn.  

Historically, I have been using a lot more ardboyz in my boodtoofs lists (35 boyz) But I think there is some interesting list design in that concept  and I would like to explore it further.. I definitely do not think this would be the most competitive army in IJ and definitely not Big Waagh, but it is fun as hell and  it has a unique design space.  I like to think of it as Melee KO haha

@Kasper Thanks Good to know!

[Garuun]

On 2/26/2020 at 7:14 PM, Kasper said:

So a couple of days late, but Big Waaagh completely smashed it at Summer Smash in Australia, getting #1, #2 and #3! Congrats btw.   @PlasticCraic 

1st spot

  Reveal hidden contents

 

2nd spot

  Reveal hidden contents

 

3rd spot

  Reveal hidden contents

 

The 1st list is largely Ironjawz, yet still got 30 Savage dudes. The other two are alot more mixed. They all have 2 big threats each and a lot of wounds. I'm really surprised that the Ironjawz focused list manages to get to 172 wounds.

I'm a little sad that the lists don't have their spells selected. I'm curious what the Wardokk had in the 1st list. Cheap access to Gorkamorka's Warcry, or is he there to stack saves on the Savage Orruks so they can tank an objective?

Joel took Kunnin Beast Spirits on his wardokk, I did Brutal Beast Spirit on Wurrgog, Kunnin on my wardokk and Breath of Gorkamorka on the maniak weirdnob on mine, we got to pick spells every game but I didn’t really need to play in the activation wars in my match ups

[Garuun]

Accidental double post

Edited February 28, 2020 by Garuun
I goofed

[VonSmall]

15 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

I've been playing against an Idoneth Deepkin player mostly and struggling. He always deploys extremely safely. Turn 2 and 3 his threat range is ridiculous, Eels can move 17'' (he can add 3'' to their movement through some ability) and run and charge turn 2 so it's really 18'' - 23'' of movement + charging. My Megaboss on Maw-Krusha typically gets nuked before it can do anything. 

I've found, what I believe to be, a really effective way of playing against Eels is to wait for 3 turns and then hit them on the 4th. Here's essentially why:

• By castling up early you are denying a back board edge strike as well as filling in any holes to stop the pesky eels from jumping over your lines to hit the meat at the back. Later on you can push up a bit if you can keep giving the turn to the other player meaning you won't get doubled.
• As big waaagh you will be powering up your 6++ save early on which combos with the 6++ save from some of the Ardboys shields.
• By staying close together you are benefiting from the buffs of Warchanters and Immune to battleshock if the opponent does go for you early.
• Typically the army will be fully Big Waaagh! buffed up come turn 4 meaning that when you choose to strike you are doing so at full power.
• By going T4 you no longer need to worry about the IDK strike first on T3.

Another key thing here is that while typically the IDK player will give you first turn to allow them a chance at the double (which is fine as this gets your army wide 6++ save up), you will be in the drivers seat for T2 roll. If you win it, give them the turn to avoid the chance at the double. Without a double turn IDK players won't want to come near you as they'll just die when you hit them and they rely on the speed of 2 turns movement to get over your lines.

Here's a shot of a recent event I went to where I castled up and kept giving the IDK player the turn. Literally nothing died for 3 turns and them I hit him with the krusha and boosted ardboys for the win.

[Kasper]

@VonSmall How did you win on objectives then?

[VonSmall]

2 hours ago, Kasper said:

@VonSmall How did you win on objectives then?

Typically with so many bodies it's simple enough to cover 2 objectives with the castle bearing in mind you only need to be within 6" to cap it and the opponent will be wary of coming in that close unless they want a fight...which is great.

Battle for the pass is a more complex scenario, in which case you're more reliant on Hand of Gork to grab things.

[Arkahn]

1 hour ago, VonSmall said:

Typically with so many bodies it's simple enough to cover 2 objectives with the castle bearing in mind you only need to be within 6" to cap it and the opponent will be wary of coming in that close unless they want a fight...which is great.

Battle for the pass is a more complex scenario, in which case you're more reliant on Hand of Gork to grab things.

I wish to watch a battle report to demonstrate your strategy 

[Ravinsild]

5 hours ago, VonSmall said:

I've found, what I believe to be, a really effective way of playing against Eels is to wait for 3 turns and then hit them on the 4th. Here's essentially why:

• By castling up early you are denying a back board edge strike as well as filling in any holes to stop the pesky eels from jumping over your lines to hit the meat at the back. Later on you can push up a bit if you can keep giving the turn to the other player meaning you won't get doubled.
• As big waaagh you will be powering up your 6++ save early on which combos with the 6++ save from some of the Ardboys shields.
• By staying close together you are benefiting from the buffs of Warchanters and Immune to battleshock if the opponent does go for you early.
• Typically the army will be fully Big Waaagh! buffed up come turn 4 meaning that when you choose to strike you are doing so at full power.
• By going T4 you no longer need to worry about the IDK strike first on T3.

Another key thing here is that while typically the IDK player will give you first turn to allow them a chance at the double (which is fine as this gets your army wide 6++ save up), you will be in the drivers seat for T2 roll. If you win it, give them the turn to avoid the chance at the double. Without a double turn IDK players won't want to come near you as they'll just die when you hit them and they rely on the speed of 2 turns movement to get over your lines.

Here's a shot of a recent event I went to where I castled up and kept giving the IDK player the turn. Literally nothing died for 3 turns and them I hit him with the krusha and boosted ardboys for the win.

Oh I play pure Ironjawz. It’s the army I signed up for in 2015 so I’m ride or die Ironjawz. I don’t mix with the other green skins. We’re the biggest and the best!

This is the list I have been practicing with for now: 

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Bloodtoofs
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Command Trait: Get Da Realmgate
- Artefact: Quickduff Amulet
- Mount Trait: Mean 'Un
Orruk Megaboss (150)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Killa Beat

Battleline
20 x Orruk Ardboys (360)
- 4x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- 1x Gore Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- 1x Gore Choppas
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Jagged Gore-hackas

Battalions
Ironfist (160)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 134

I know people say brutes are bad, but in my experience they can really be scary, especially against Eels (4 wounds, so adding 1 to hit). I found between Duff Up Da Big Thing and Killa Beat the +2 to hit rolls makes a lot of the meater weapons like the boss weapons and Gore-Choppa smash SUPER hard, especially when buffed by Warchanters. 

I'll keep experimenting with Brutes, but it is entirely possible I'll switch some things around and substitute them for packs of 3 Gore Gruntas. 

Edit: Not going to lie those are some really sweet boats though. I love the way they are painted especially the gradient from the dark at the bottom to brighter up top. 

Edited February 28, 2020 by Ravinsild

[Holy_Diver]

Yesterday was my first game with Da Big Waaagh!! and what I can say? Almost wiped out an OBR at Scorched Land (not petrifex, but with 2 cayapults and 80 morteks!!)

My list was well a first attempt to test this army, maybe not so optimyzed, I suppose:

1x Maw (Brutish Cunning/Ethereal/Mean Un)
1x Weridnob (Skullcape/Green Hand)
1x Warchanter (Get'em)
1x Wardokk (Bestial Spirit)

2x10 Ardboys
6x Gruntas (Pig iron)
30x Arrowboys

Ironfist

The next time I will play an Idol list. How many dudez prefer the Idol to the Maw?

 

[tripchimeras]

So it seems (for good reason) that the new gold standard for Mixed Big Waagh is the rogue idol + 60 savages, 1 shooting, 1 combat build that I think started getting picked up as a big time net list after placing 4th at cancon.  I love the list and am contemplating bringing it to my next GT.  However, the foot megaboss with brutish kunnin however necessary he is, feels like a 150pt tax which bothers me a bit.  Also the ever-present menace that is ObR hanging over the meta right now has me wishing for more punch.  For the cost of the foot megaboss and the gore gruntas I can have a Maw Krusha though, which potentially solves both of my qualms if I can solve the third battleline issue without sacrificing the spirit of the list.

So the base list I would now be working from if I went for combo maw krusha and rogue idol while keeping the spirit of the original list is as follows:

Quote

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
- Mortal Realm: Shyish

LEADERS
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa

Wurrgog Prophet (160)
- Lore of the Savage Beast : Kunnin' Beast Spirits

Wardokk (80)
- Lore of the Savage Beast : Breath of Gorkamorka

Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat : Fixin' Beat

UNITS
30 x Savage Orruks (300)
- Stikkas

BEHEMOTHS
Rogue Idol (400)

TOTAL: 1510/2000

This leaves basically 3 options to retain the body count I want for screens and the shooting meta while also keeping the list legal:

1. add back the maniak wierdnob, have 20 arrowboys instead of 30, and take a unit of 10 savage orruks for the 3rd battleline.

2. ditch the maniak wierdnob, keep 30 arrowboys, make the wurrgog prophet the general losing out on the brutish kunnin so that he can take the extra spell needed for the additional to hit buff for the arrowboys, and use the pt savings to either add 10 more savage orruks or a min unit of boarboyz to meet battleline requirements.

3. ditch the arrowboys entirely as well as the maniak wierdnob, and use the point savings on a second block of 30 savage orruks, a min unit of brutes or a min unit of boarboyz, and an extra command point.

The one other think I still need to decide is whether to go all in vs ObR with metalripper claw and ironclad or balanced with ethereal and brutish.

I guess the question is A. whether the list is better vs ObR with maw krusha in it to begin with and B. is it worth trying to retain some semblance of a shooting phase, or without buff optimization do you abandon it for raw melee? 

Edited February 28, 2020 by tripchimeras

[hurben]

38 minutes ago, Holy_Diver said:

The next time I will play an Idol list. How many dudez prefer the Idol to the Maw?

If you play Idol you have to use a prophet and let him do big damages with all +1 to cast he can have.

i like the MK and particularly with the same command ability, artefact and mount trait. It makes him very resilient. 

[Holy_Diver]

19 hours ago, tripchimeras said:

So it seems (for good reason) that the new gold standard for Mixed Big Waagh is the rogue idol + 60 savages, 1 shooting, 1 combat build that I think started getting picked up as a big time net list after placing 4th at cancon.  I love the list and am contemplating bringing it to my next GT.  However, the foot megaboss with brutish kunnin however necessary he is, feels like a 150pt tax which bothers me a bit.  Also the ever-present menace that is ObR hanging over the meta right now has me wishing for more punch.  For the cost of the foot megaboss and the gore gruntas I can have a Maw Krusha though, which potentially solves both of my qualms if I can solve the third battleline issue without sacrificing the spirit of the list.

So the base list I would now be working from if I went for combo maw krusha and rogue idol while keeping the spirit of the original list is as follows:

This leaves basically 3 options to retain the body count I want for screens and the shooting meta while also keeping the list legal:

1. add back the maniak wierdnob, have 20 arrowboys instead of 30, and take a unit of 10 savage orruks for the 3rd battleline.

2. ditch the maniak wierdnob, keep 30 arrowboys, make the wurrgog prophet the general losing out on the brutish kunnin so that he can take the extra spell needed for the additional to hit buff for the arrowboys, and use the pt savings to either add 10 more savage orruks or a min unit of boarboyz to meet battleline requirements.

3. ditch the arrowboys entirely as well as the maniak wierdnob, and use the point savings on a second block of 30 savage orruks, a min unit of brutes or a min unit of boarboyz, and an extra command point.

The one other think I still need to decide is whether to go all in vs ObR with metalripper claw and ironclad or balanced with ethereal and brutish.

I guess the question is A. whether the list is better vs ObR with maw krusha in it to begin with and B. is it worth trying to retain some semblance of a shooting phase, or without buff optimization do you abandon it for raw melee? 

And this other solution?

1x Wurrgog (General)
1x Wardokk
1x Warchanter

6x Gruntas (Ironfist)
5x Ardboys (Ironfist)
4x Ironskull's boys (Ironfist)

30x Savages
30x Savages
1x Idol

More wounds, one more CP, one more arteact and no taxes (the small units of Ardboys can be used to take back objectives).

Edited February 29, 2020 by Holy_Diver

[Aelfric]

53 minutes ago, Holy_Diver said:

4x Ironskull's boys (Ironfist)

Unfortunately, you can't take Ironskull's Boyz in a battalion as they require units with the right warscroll titles, not keyword.

Edited February 29, 2020 by Aelfric

[Holy_Diver]

1 hour ago, Aelfric said:

Unfortunately, you can't take Ironskull's Boyz in a battalion as they require units with the right warscroll titles, not keyword.

Ouch. Mmm that's pretty bad, because for 10 pts can't get another squad of 5x boys. 

So, @tripchimeras a legal alternative... -10 Savages and +5 Ardboys? 

[Chase]

Where can we find the 3 winning Summer Bash lists? I'm interested to see what they brought. I saw @PlasticCraic on his blog. I love the 8 stabbas. I wonder the threats the others chose.

Edited March 1, 2020 by Chase

[Kasper]

6 hours ago, Chase said:

Where can we find the 3 winning Summer Bash lists? I'm interested to see what they brought. I saw @PlasticCraic on his blog. I love the 8 stabbas. I wonder the threats the others chose.

Go back 1 page.

[Malakree]

On 2/28/2020 at 9:20 AM, VonSmall said:

Here's a shot of a recent event I went to where I castled up and kept giving the IDK player the turn. Literally nothing died for 3 turns and them I hit him with the krusha and boosted ardboys for the win.

I recognise those realmgates haha