Tonhel Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Ragest said: No, erratas come 1-2 months after each book, including battletomes, ghb's, core rules and campaign rules, plus 4 sets of erratas each year in the quarters. In the Warcom article they said that with the new system they don't have to do "online" errata's anymore, but fix it with a new book. I honestly can't see how this is an improvement. First the balance update isn't free anymore and secondly it can't never be as fast as they can release it online. Books and such are fine, but rules updates and balance updates during an edition should be online and preferably free. As lots of people see the new system as a computer game. Patches should be free. DLC not, but DLCS should include more than balance/bug fixes. It needs new units, battleplans and etc. . As it is worded now it will no be free anymore as it was the case with battlescrolls during 3rd edition. Edited March 28 by Tonhel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragest Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 4 minutes ago, Tonhel said: In the Warcom article they said that with the new system they don't have to do "online" errata's anymore, but fix it with a new book. I honestly can't see how this is an improvement. First the balance update isn't free anymore and secondly it can't never be as fast as they can release it online. Books and such are fine, but rules updates and balance updates during an edition should be online and preferably free. As lots of people see the new system as a computer game. Patches should be free. DLC not, but DLCS should include more than balance/bug fixes. It needs new units, battleplans and etc. . As it is worded now it will no be free anymore as it was the case with battlescrolls during 3rd edition. I think Matt explained it in the worst possible way. A change in the economy of command points is not an errata or even a balance you can get in a quarter faq set, is a big change in the mechanics of the game, so instead of applying layers of little patches to try to fix ir, they can scrap entirely the system and rewrite it from the ground, creating a new “module” that can full replace the one that is not working. And if the fix is not working you can make a new one or come again to the first one without needing to undo all faqs/erratas o revise faqs/erratas in a dozen of pdfs. That is how I understand the statement. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 As described it does make it sound like they're saying "we've heard yall asking for us to catch up to the real world and provide more digital rules. So here it is the big unveil LESS digital rules! That's right, FAQs and errata will now be available for purchase at your nearest warhammer worlds event!" The last bit is obviously a hyperbole and I honestly expect even GW won't try to sell you the FAQ. I just think it's worded in the most hilariously disconnected way. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonhel Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Ragest said: I think Matt explained it in the worst possible way. A change in the economy of command points is not an errata or even a balance you can get in a quarter faq set, is a big change in the mechanics of the game, so instead of applying layers of little patches to try to fix ir, they can scrap entirely the system and rewrite it from the ground, creating a new “module” that can full replace the one that is not working. And if the fix is not working you can make a new one or come again to the first one without needing to undo all faqs/erratas o revise faqs/erratas in a dozen of pdfs. That is how I understand the statement. Yes, but this will take time and will not be free anymore. What is a better system is to add the balance / rules updates online, so problems are quickly fixed and than they can add all those fixes per 6 months or so in a new book with the new updated modules. So players can chose to keep using the errata's online or buy the new book with everything nicely updated. Also Module X is released in june, after a couple of months it becomes clear dat Module X needs some changes. They update, "rewrite it form the ground up", make some cool Warcom articles about it. Sell the book for X euro. Than after a couple of months it becomes clear that the rewrite is not as good as hoped. So again a rewrite, again a new book and again paying X euro. While in the past this was free. You can see it perfectly with the Battlescrolls that not every solution fix the problem or sometimes create new problems. The big change now is that you will have to pay for these fixes. Edited March 28 by Tonhel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragest Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Tonhel said: Yes, but this will take time and will not be free anymore. What is a better system is to add the balance / rules updates online, so problems are quickly fixed and than they can add all those fixes per 6 months or so in a new book with the new updated modules. So players can chose that keep using the errata's online or buy the new book with everything nicely updated. Also Module X is released in june, after a couple of months it becomes clear dat Module X needs some changes. They update, "rewrite it form the ground up", make some cool Warcom articles about it. Sell the book for X euro. Than after a couple of months it becomes clear that rewrite is as good as hoped. So again a rewrite, again a new book and again paying X euro. While in the past this was free. You can see it perfectly with the Battlescrolls that not every solution fix the problem or sometimes create new problems. The big change now is that you will have to pay for these fixes. But that is not different to the actual way they do things. Weapon ranges were not working at the beggining of the edition, then they changed it in the second ghb adding the battallion that lets you fight in two files. Or magical-dominance armies are a problem because my poor little wizards can’t cast a ****** or dispel anything, so they introduced primal dices in our last ghb. I mean, if you are right and erratas like we had this week with dw4 and fec are paywalled the game is gonna be doomed, but I think that this is about big switches in core mechanics via ghb, like we already have. Edited March 28 by Ragest 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScionOfOssia Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 59 minutes ago, Tonhel said: Maybe there will be no wizards in spearhead mode allowed? It seems a bit strange as the diversity between the battletomes is also the magical power they have. But if the magic module is not added, how can the pointcost of those units be balanced if they can't use a big part of their identity. Biggest example is Tzeentch. How tho, the OBR Spearhead would either need to be reworked to include a Liege-Kavalos or the Soulreaper will need to be reworked to, for the first time in history, not suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cdance93 Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 I think a big thing to take away is that the wizards will still exist as heroes but they probably just wont do much outside of the magic module Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Tonhel said: Yes, but this will take time and will not be free anymore I still think that the new Battlescrolls (or whatever they will be called) are going to introduce (for free) new modules to replace the ones that doesn't work. Of course we are going to see Campaigns and GHB with their own modules, but that's exactly what we already have. Edited March 28 by Beliman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 2 minutes ago, Beliman said: I still think that the new Battlescrolls (or whatever they will be called) are going to introduce (for free) new modules to replace the ones that doesn't work. Of course we are going to see Campaigns and GHB with their own modules, but that's exactly what we already have. I agree with you but anyone would be excused for thinking "we won't need to put out online updates and can instead just put them in the GHB" to mean "we won't issue online updates but we will sell them to you to get people to buy the ghb" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cdance93 Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 2 minutes ago, The Red King said: I agree with you but anyone would be excused for thinking "we won't need to put out online updates and can instead just put them in the GHB" to mean "we won't issue online updates but we will sell them to you to get people to buy the ghb" TBH, they're putting the GHB in the launch box - I wouldn't be surprised if they're taking steps to certain rules for free 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Cdance93 said: I wouldn't be surprised if they're taking steps to certain rules for free Taking steps to make rules free? What about putting a book into a launch box and then presumably charging more for the box is more free? Plus they're still a publicly traded company. I would be genuinely surprised at ANY change that means taking less money from customers. I've been wrong before (notably I never thought new plastic bloodknights would be cheaper than the finecast ones and I was completely wrong.) But I don't really see how anything from this article gives that impression. Edit: With my own bias in mind. Edited March 28 by The Red King 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cdance93 Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 Just now, The Red King said: Taking steps to make rules free? What about putting a book into a launch box and then presumably charging more for the box is more free? Plus they're still a publicly traded company. I would be genuinely surprised at ANY change that means taking less money from customers. I've been wrong before (notably I never thought new plastic bloodknights would be cheaper than the finecast ones and I was completely wrong.) But I don't really see how anything from this article gives that impression. its a cost/benefit analysis - they may have done a deep dive into how much they're making on GHBs etc and found that free rules = more people diving into AOS = more money. Not so far fetched, especially considering production costs of physical products 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 18 minutes ago, Cdance93 said: its a cost/benefit analysis - they may have done a deep dive into how much they're making on GHBs etc and found that free rules = more people diving into AOS = more money. Not so far fetched, especially considering production costs of physical products Politely I consider it fairly far fetched. There are plenty of "goodwill" moves GW has had the chance to make in the past but since you can't put goodwill on a spreadsheet (i.e. you can't make a concrete link between players feelings and sales even if it seems pretty obvious) there's no reason to think they would start now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cdance93 Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 1 minute ago, The Red King said: Politely I consider it fairly far fetched. There are plenty of "goodwill" moves GW has had the chance to make in the past but since you can't put goodwill on a spreadsheet (i.e. you can't make a concrete link between players feelings and sales even if it seems pretty obvious) there's no reason to think they would start now. I mean, honestly, you're probably right.. but damn if I am not hopeful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 3 minutes ago, Cdance93 said: I mean, honestly, you're probably right.. but damn if I am not hopeful! "Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment." But don't let me dampen your enthusiasm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucentia Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 Perhaps notably the core rules and unit warscrolls, including FAQ/errata updates, have been available for free in every edition of the game thus far, it's probably worth waiting to see if that will remain the case before hinging a bunch of speculation on a poorly worded statement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cdance93 Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 1 minute ago, Lucentia said: Perhaps notably the core rules and unit warscrolls, including FAQ/errata updates, have been available for free in every edition of the game thus far, it's probably worth waiting to see if that will remain the case before hinging a bunch of speculation on a poorly worded statement. Oh I mean warscrolls, core rules and FAQs Erratas are going to remain free no question - look at 40k 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 27 minutes ago, The Red King said: Taking steps to make rules free? What about putting a book into a launch box and then presumably charging more for the box is more free? Plus they're still a publicly traded company. I would be genuinely surprised at ANY change that means taking less money from customers. I've been wrong before (notably I never thought new plastic bloodknights would be cheaper than the finecast ones and I was completely wrong.) But I don't really see how anything from this article gives that impression. Edit: With my own bias in mind. It could be just me, but I feel the prices are a bit stuck since a couple of years or so. Maybe they found out that they cannot raise the prices more and are moving into some sweet freebies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBrodd Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 Ive no idea about rules nor how they affect the game. What I want to know is will this affect Battletomes and Narrative event books in regard to page space? Id love for there to be more Lore in these books if it means rules are elsewhere. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejecutor Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 Just now, KingBrodd said: Ive no idea about rules nor how they affect the game. What I want to know is will this affect Battletomes and Narrative event books in regard to page space? Id love for there to be more Lore in these books if it means rules are elsewhere. I think, if we mirror 40k, we would have more lore overall. Right after Leviathan they got a narrative book, and not so long ago another one (2 in 8-9 months). IMO this is the result of them removing the VS boxes. So we have bigger books rather than the tiny lore supplements from the VS boxes. So even if the rules turn out to be modular now, I think we would end with more lore. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonhel Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 (edited) 1 hour ago, Beliman said: I still think that the new Battlescrolls (or whatever they will be called) are going to introduce (for free) new modules to replace the ones that doesn't work. Of course we are going to see Campaigns and GHB with their own modules, but that's exactly what we already have. Ok, but about what online errata that we currently have does he mean? Otherwise I am reading it totally wrong, but in the article he says that an online errata isn't needed anymore. So when looking at this edition, what online errata/faq/battlescroll could have been the issue that now is solved by not putting it online, but instead in a book? Edit: I mean we already have GHB's, so what does he mean about not putting an errata online? I am confused. 🙂 Edited March 28 by Tonhel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBrodd Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 15 minutes ago, Ejecutor said: I think, if we mirror 40k, we would have more lore overall. Right after Leviathan they got a narrative book, and not so long ago another one (2 in 8-9 months). IMO this is the result of them removing the VS boxes. So we have bigger books rather than the tiny lore supplements from the VS boxes. So even if the rules turn out to be modular now, I think we would end with more lore. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flippy Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 24 minutes ago, Cdance93 said: Oh I mean warscrolls, core rules and FAQs Erratas are going to remain free no question - look at 40k Of course they will. People are overanalysing the wording of this article way too much. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 3 minutes ago, Tonhel said: Ok, but about what online errata that we currently have does he mean? Otherwise I am reading it totally wrong, but in the article he says that an online errata isn't needed anymore. So when looking at this edition, what online errata/faq/battlescroll could have been the issue that now is solved by not putting it online, but instead in a book? Edit: I mean we already have GHB's, so what does he mean about not putting an errata online? I am confused. 🙂 Nobody knows. Maybe it's about selling more books, maybe it's just releasing a new "battlescroll" that removes what is not working. Or something completely diferent. Only time will tell. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souleater Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 Savage Orruks need only the slightest nudge to be turned into the painted savages that fought the Roman invaders to the British Isles aka the Picts. And they’d get to keep the English accents!* *Yes, I know the Picts weren’t actually Cockneys. Probably. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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