AoS 2 - Legion of Grief discussion

[Lowki]

I can use some advice on putting together a Legion of Grief 2000pt army.

 When Nighthaunt was released I bought the soulwars box, and also a couple of other boxes but not enough for a complete army yet.  Now I am finally making some progress in painting them, it is time for me to think about to complete a full army list. Also because I am not sure what a possible brexit may do to the prices ( I live at the European Mainland), so I like to make the last big order before it happens.

Now although I still love the nighthaunt a lot, it can also be a bit one sided, so it can do with some variety, and LoG seems to be the perfect answer to that . The thing is that I am not an experienced player so I find it hard to determine what to choose to make it a somewhat competative army. I hope I can get some advice here.

What I have so far:

20 Chainrasp

2 Guardian of Souls

1 Knight of shrouds on ...steed

4 Grimghast Reapers

9 Glaivewraith stalkers

4 banshees

1 Lady Olynder

1 Spirit Torment

1 Lord Executioner

1 Black Coach

1 Crawlocke the Jailor

1 Thorns of the brair Queen

5 Hexwraith Cavalery

3 Spirit hosts

1 Mortis Engine

Now Important to say that I like the majority of the army to be Night Haunt, but not necessarily every model I already own need to be in it. I am also aware that I will be left with some models anyway because of the numbers in the Soulwar box. It doesn't have to be the most competative LoG army possible, It just shouldnt be like it is already lost before I even put it on the table. 

My favorites which I would like to keep at least (if possible)

- Black Coach ( I realize it is not considered to be a strong choice)

- Knight of shroud on mount

- Guardian of Souls

- Chainrasp (maybe add some variety by mixing the thorns of the bq) or Grimghast Reapers

I would like to add some skelletons units if that makes sense too.

 

All ideas are welcome of course,

Another question I have, is what books should I buy...do I need both the GHB and Forbidden Power? 

thanks in advance.

 

[Bayul]

12 hours ago, Lowki said:

*spooky stuff*

So I am a beginner myself but I think you have to invest in some other units to be "competitive" with LoG. I have seen two kinds of competitive strategies so far:

Bravery bomb: Bravery reducing spells and effects and a bunch of Tomb Banshees.
Multiples Small Units (MSU): A horde army with a CP-generating Dreadblade Harrow as general to resummon destroyed units at your gravesites.
There might be a third kind of list where you sling spells with either Nagash or Arkhan but at this point you should play Legion of Nagash / Sacrament in my opinion.

In general look for synergies within your warscrolls, for example Bladegheist Revenants + Spirit Torments or Dreadscythe Harridans + Horrorghast / Shroud of Terror. Fill up your battleline with either Chainrasp Horde or fast Dire Wolves. If you want to take Skeleton Warriors, bring a lot (30+) and a Necromancer to acompany them.

[flowerpot_chimp]

With regards Myrmourn Banshee chat: they're very very strong but they're not point and click. If you build your list around the idea of them being a hammer, they will deliver if you can set it all up correctly. The unbinding shenanigans is almost a side-benefit if you're running 12, their real objective is to stab things to death. Farm CP, take both KoS and stack +1 Attack, +1 to hit and reroll 1s to hit. They will kill what they touch, even 2+/3+ save targets get run over, especially if you can get dread withering off.

Are they as easy to use as Bladegheists/Harridans? Absolutely not. Can they be an effective hammer? Absolutely yes!

12 die very quickly, which is why you often see two units. Also, you're running LoG, spend the CP to bring them back. Shooting will clear them off of course, but I find people tend to shoot your heroes, not your units anyway. A benefit of being a smaller unit that still hits hard is that if they don't all die, it's easy to bring them back to fighting effectiveness with gravesites and necros.

Edited October 17, 2019 by flowerpot_chimp

[Hannibal]

23 hours ago, flowerpot_chimp said:

With regards Myrmourn Banshee chat: they're very very strong but they're not point and click. If you build your list around the idea of them being a hammer, they will deliver if you can set it all up correctly. The unbinding shenanigans is almost a side-benefit if you're running 12, their real objective is to stab things to death. Farm CP, take both KoS and stack +1 Attack, +1 to hit and reroll 1s to hit. They will kill what they touch, even 2+/3+ save targets get run over, especially if you can get dread withering off.

Are they as easy to use as Bladegheists/Harridans? Absolutely not. Can they be an effective hammer? Absolutely yes!

12 die very quickly, which is why you often see two units. Also, you're running LoG, spend the CP to bring them back. Shooting will clear them off of course, but I find people tend to shoot your heroes, not your units anyway. A benefit of being a smaller unit that still hits hard is that if they don't all die, it's easy to bring them back to fighting effectiveness with gravesites and necros.

Can this also be done in a pure NH list?

I´m still not sure wether to start NH or LoG. What are the pros /cons to both of them? Why / when should I run LoG instead of NH?

[flowerpot_chimp]

1 hour ago, Hannibal said:

Can this also be done in a pure NH list?

I´m still not sure wether to start NH or LoG. What are the pros /cons to both of them? Why / when should I run LoG instead of NH?

LoG has access to vassal of the craven king + the aetherquartz brooch combo, which lets you farm the CP you need to fuel them. You *can* do it in NH, but I doubt it would be as good.

I also prefer LoG for banshees because their small size means they can just all die to some bad 4+ rolls and gravesites make this less punishing. The main benefit of NH is deep striking and wave of terror, both of which are effects LoG can kinda semi-replicate with gravesites and vanhels plus having other benefits. 

[Hannibal]

6 hours ago, flowerpot_chimp said:

LoG has access to vassal of the craven king + the aetherquartz brooch combo, which lets you farm the CP you need to fuel them. You *can* do it in NH, but I doubt it would be as good.

I also prefer LoG for banshees because their small size means they can just all die to some bad 4+ rolls and gravesites make this less punishing. The main benefit of NH is deep striking and wave of terror, both of which are effects LoG can kinda semi-replicate with gravesites and vanhels plus having other benefits. 

Thanks for the answer! It seems to me that my love for Banshees pushes me towards LoG...

Were can I get some informations / overview on what units are available to LoG, especially battleline?

[Sauriv]

43 minutes ago, Hannibal said:

Thanks for the answer! It seems to me that my love for Banshees pushes me towards LoG...

Were can I get some informations / overview on what units are available to LoG, especially battleline?

The forbidden power has obviously everything you need to know for LoG, but, just to see what's  battleline i would use scrollbuilder. 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/warscroll-builder/

But battlelines are:

Chainrasp hord, zombies, skeleton warriors and dire wolfs

[Raz0Cyph]

Hi everyone,

 

i cannot find the legion of grief on battlescribe,

 

Do you experienced the same issue ?

 

 

[IkedaT]

Probably because Battlescribe is an eh--- app.  Consider using the official Azyr app or the online warscroll builder.  The rules are found in Forbidden Power.

[lare2]

On 10/25/2019 at 10:23 AM, Raz0Cyph said:

Hi everyone,

 

i cannot find the legion of grief on battlescribe,

 

Do you experienced the same issue ?

 

 

Yep, it's not there. Just use grand alliance death but remember you can't include vamps and the limitations on the mortarchs. 

[phlp]

hey there,

after starting with nighthaunt (and being underwhelmed by there magic phase) i switched over to legion of grief. after getting stomped by stormcasts (i dont have much time, so im mostly playing vs one friend) i started looking into the other legions. this weekend i got myself one of my favorite models, the mourngul, so i was thinking about this legion of grief list...

is it any useful against a stormcasts list with a lot of evocators?

 

Allegiance: Legion of Grief
Mortal Realm: Hysh
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (120)
Dreadblade Harrow (90)
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- General
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
- Spell: Shroud of Terror
Spirit Torment (120)
30 x Skeleton Warriors (240)
- Ancient Blades
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
8 x Myrmourn Banshees (140)
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (180)
20 x Grimghast Reapers (320)
Mourngul (280)
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 139

[Bayul]

Are you aware that Mournguls aren't summonable?  Your Mourngul seems like a very expensive beatstick that you can't bring back, which is the whole point of playing Legion of Grief. But if you like the model and want to smush SCE with it, it will be okay I guess.

Make your Dreadblade Harrow the general though.
 

[phlp]

yeah, im aware that hes missing the summonable keyword.

so better exchange him with some blackknights?

[Bayul]

A flanker unit could be a good alternative, so yes Black Knights or Hexwraiths if you need rend.

But if you already bought the model from Forgeworld you should just use it and enjoy it. It might have some good use against SCE, which I am not able to construe from its warscroll.

[EnixLHQ]

I brought a LoG list to a Cities of Sigmar fight and got wrrrrreeeeeccccckkked. Twice.

Both games were 1500. Both times my Cities player brought the Hammerhal city with a battalion.

I brought the following:

Hereos: Dreadblade Harrow (General, Vassal, Aetherquartz Brooch), Kurdoss Valentian, Guardian of Souls (Dread Withering), and a Necromancer (Wail of Doom)

Battleline: Chainrasps x20, Chainrasps x10. Other: Bladegheists x20, Reapers x20, Myrmourn Banshees x8

Game 1 was a total failure. I rolled horribly, not saving any CP despite the two chances at it, and not stealing any CP. I also didn't know what his army could do, so I had no recourse against his 2+/2+, 6s do mortals in addition to wounds, and "spend a CP and fight again" shenanigans. I went first, lost my Bladegheists en masse on my turn-his counter attack, and then lost the rest of them on his turn. He got the double turn and pretty much finished me off.

Game 2 was much better in terms of die rolls. Kurdoss stole himself 5 CP, and the refunds happened almost every time. But, all the CP in the world couldn't save me. I now knew where his damage was coming from, so I decided to smash into it head on hoping I could take out his sea of wounds. I made some mistakes with hero positioning, but overall the real brick wall was just the sheer amount of damage he could dish out even when he wasn't charging. By the top of turn 4 I conceded, him having done over 99 wounds to me before we stopped counting and me only doing 20. At no time did any unit engaged with him last more than one exchange.

What I learned:

Cities have the best "fight again" ability in the game? NH's WoT is unanswerable for that first attack, but you need to land that natural 10 charge roll. LoG's Necromancer's Danse is a cast, so a chance to never even get it off and it can be unbound. Meanwhile Hammerhal can generate up to 4 CP a turn (I think) and it just costs one for any of their units to fight again. Add that to his 3+ saves and aforementioned 2+/2+ and all he had to do was wait until my units were exhausted and just choose one or two of his to reactivate and wipe whatever was in front of them.

Banshees? I didn't know he wouldn't have any casting so they were never empowered. Didn't matter much, they appeared from the grave to sit on an objective only to evaporate when attacked. His 30 wounds per turn average made their 8 laughable.

LoG gravesites only prolonged my torture. Instead of being wiped out in turn 2 I was able to stick it out with 3 unit resurrections to last until turn 4. But with no way to shroud my own guys or reduce incoming damage "temporary" was a key word for my guys in addition to "summonable". Losing Shademist, GoS's lanterns to help his healing, and losing the Shroudguard and Chainguard battalions are huge hits to our survivability.

KoSoES and ST would have been better heroes to take. The KoS extra attack for a CP is likely the best buff I could give out, and if I'm lucky enough to get a Danse off those two have great synergy. ST's reroll 1's for everyone, and Bladegheists getting to reroll all failures from him or his Chainghasts, would do a huge favor to my damage output. Not having The Condemned battalion really hurts.

Sorry for my ranting, but I'm not really sure what my trouble was. My list was janky, for sure. I didn't know what he was going to bring and I tried to cover the spread. I feel like LoG is stronger than pure NH, but maybe not? Or was it just the overwhelming OPness of the new Cities book?

What do you guys think?

[Grimoriano]

19 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

I brought a LoG list to a Cities of Sigmar fight and got wrrrrreeeeeccccckkked. Twice.

Both games were 1500. Both times my Cities player brought the Hammerhal city with a battalion.

I brought the following:

Hereos: Dreadblade Harrow (General, Vassal, Aetherquartz Brooch), Kurdoss Valentian, Guardian of Souls (Dread Withering), and a Necromancer (Wail of Doom)

Battleline: Chainrasps x20, Chainrasps x10. Other: Bladegheists x20, Reapers x20, Myrmourn Banshees x8

Game 1 was a total failure. I rolled horribly, not saving any CP despite the two chances at it, and not stealing any CP. I also didn't know what his army could do, so I had no recourse against his 2+/2+, 6s do mortals in addition to wounds, and "spend a CP and fight again" shenanigans. I went first, lost my Bladegheists en masse on my turn-his counter attack, and then lost the rest of them on his turn. He got the double turn and pretty much finished me off.

Game 2 was much better in terms of die rolls. Kurdoss stole himself 5 CP, and the refunds happened almost every time. But, all the CP in the world couldn't save me. I now knew where his damage was coming from, so I decided to smash into it head on hoping I could take out his sea of wounds. I made some mistakes with hero positioning, but overall the real brick wall was just the sheer amount of damage he could dish out even when he wasn't charging. By the top of turn 4 I conceded, him having done over 99 wounds to me before we stopped counting and me only doing 20. At no time did any unit engaged with him last more than one exchange.

What I learned:

Cities have the best "fight again" ability in the game? NH's WoT is unanswerable for that first attack, but you need to land that natural 10 charge roll. LoG's Necromancer's Danse is a cast, so a chance to never even get it off and it can be unbound. Meanwhile Hammerhal can generate up to 4 CP a turn (I think) and it just costs one for any of their units to fight again. Add that to his 3+ saves and aforementioned 2+/2+ and all he had to do was wait until my units were exhausted and just choose one or two of his to reactivate and wipe whatever was in front of them.

Banshees? I didn't know he wouldn't have any casting so they were never empowered. Didn't matter much, they appeared from the grave to sit on an objective only to evaporate when attacked. His 30 wounds per turn average made their 8 laughable.

LoG gravesites only prolonged my torture. Instead of being wiped out in turn 2 I was able to stick it out with 3 unit resurrections to last until turn 4. But with no way to shroud my own guys or reduce incoming damage "temporary" was a key word for my guys in addition to "summonable". Losing Shademist, GoS's lanterns to help his healing, and losing the Shroudguard and Chainguard battalions are huge hits to our survivability.

KoSoES and ST would have been better heroes to take. The KoS extra attack for a CP is likely the best buff I could give out, and if I'm lucky enough to get a Danse off those two have great synergy. ST's reroll 1's for everyone, and Bladegheists getting to reroll all failures from him or his Chainghasts, would do a huge favor to my damage output. Not having The Condemned battalion really hurts.

Sorry for my ranting, but I'm not really sure what my trouble was. My list was janky, for sure. I didn't know what he was going to bring and I tried to cover the spread. I feel like LoG is stronger than pure NH, but maybe not? Or was it just the overwhelming OPness of the new Cities book?

What do you guys think?

1- u can kill his general to remove the +1/+1

2- the buff is on the charge, so try to charge first.

3- in LoG u have to use at least 1 powerfull unit at max number, use it as a kamikaze, res it with cp, do it again... with that u will get a points advantage.

[EnixLHQ]

3 hours ago, Grimoriano said:

1- u can kill his general to remove the +1/+1

2- the buff is on the charge, so try to charge first.

3- in LoG u have to use at least 1 powerfull unit at max number, use it as a kamikaze, res it with cp, do it again... with that u will get a points advantage.

I focused his general both games, and got him to retreat in the second one, but I could never actually kill him. Too many wounds behind a 3+ save.

In the early game I was able to charge first, so that worked. But as I stated to lose units and was pulling them out of the grave his entourage would gain ground and zone me out of my nearest graveyard causing me to backtrack. Once that happened I never had a charge phase since bringing the unit out counts as movement and he still had all of his to get into position.

The bit about a maxed unit, this I didn't do and I see your logic. I am definitely going to try that.

[Evil Bob]

On 11/1/2019 at 2:11 AM, EnixLHQ said:

snip

KoSoES and ST would have been better heroes to take. The KoS extra attack for a CP is likely the best buff I could give out, and if I'm lucky enough to get a Danse off those two have great synergy. ST's reroll 1's for everyone, and Bladegheists getting to reroll all failures from him or his Chainghasts, would do a huge favor to my damage output. Not having The Condemned battalion really hurts.

snip

I’m pretty addicted to the Spirit of Torment.  Although in LoG he can’t get the relic needed to get his “kill” on, followed by the “heals”.  So you’re probably right about the Mounted KoS.  Did the DH prove useful?  You might be able to free up points from him and the Banshees.  The necromancer or GoS can always lurk back as the unit re-summoner.

 

4 hours ago, Grimoriano said:

3- in LoG u have to use at least 1 powerfull unit at max number, use it as a kamikaze, res it with cp, do it again... with that u will get a points advantage.

His Bladegheists are maxed.  It’s just unusual seeing someone actually running that many together since in a regular Nighthaunt army they’d potentially be falling out of synergy ranges.

[EnixLHQ]

5 minutes ago, Evil Bob said:

I’m pretty addicted to the Spirit of Torment.  Although in LoG he can’t get the relic needed to get his “kill” on, followed by the “heals”.  So you’re probably right about the Mounted KoS.  Did the DH prove useful?  You might be able to free up points from him and the Banshees.  The necromancer or GoS can always lurk back as the unit re-summoner.

 

His Bladegheists are maxed.  It’s just unusual seeing someone actually running that many together since in a regular Nighthaunt army they’d potentially be falling out of synergy ranges.

The DH was very useful. As I was losing ground it was really nice to teleport to a grave to pull out units. No other hero could have done it, even with a maxed run. He's cheap, too.

In terms of buffs I prefer the extra attack if I'm already swinging well, and Bladegheists get to reroll all misses with a ST or Chainghasts around. Fun fact: nothing on the Bladegheists war scroll suggests they don't get the buffs from the Chainghasts even if there's no ST around. To me, the only reasons to bring a GoS is to bait out an unbind attempt before you cast your Necromancer's Danse and to give the +1 wounds buff.

I plan on bringing the following the next time I challenge my Cities friend:

Hereos: Dreadblade Harrow (General, Vassal, Aetherquartz Brooch), Kurdoss Valentian, Necromancer (Wail of Doom) and KoSoES

Battleline: Chainrasps x10, Chainrasps x10. Other: Bladegheists x20, Reapers x20, Chainghasts x4

If I drop Kurdoss for a ST then I can also bring one Chainrasps horde to 20.

Is Kurdoss worth bringing in a 1500 game? Especially if running Vassal and Aetherquartz?

[Evil Bob]

1 hour ago, EnixLHQ said:

snip

Is Kurdoss worth bringing in a 1500 game? Especially if running Vassal and Aetherquartz?

That would depend on how well he slaughtered stuff.  His most common flaw is how difficult he is to get into the combat we want him.

You are fighting humans so the ST should be able kill and regen Bladegheists.  Terrible rolls aside.  I think the hardest part will be positioning.  Keeping everyone in range and avoiding your opponent burning a CP to take a possible second shot at cutting him down.  Of course leaving him back is an option, personally not a fan of sidelining that many points at 1.5k.

[Bayul]

You could go over to their subforum and ask for potential weaknesses against your army: 

 

[lare2]

11 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

Dreadblade Harrow (General, Vassal, Aetherquartz Brooch),

Do you get to roll twice, once for vassal and then for aetherquartz? Would you therefore potentially recieve 2 CP when you spend 1? Thanks in advance. 

[EnixLHQ]

8 minutes ago, lare2 said:

Do you get to roll twice, once for vassal and then for aetherquartz? Would you therefore potentially recieve 2 CP when you spend 1? Thanks in advance. 

As far as I understand it it's two chances at getting the 1 point back. If the first chance gets it back, then the second chance doesn't fire.

If I'm wrong, though, and you can get potentially two back for every one spent then I wouldn't bring Kurdoss at all!

[EnixLHQ]

The wording sure seems to suggest a two-for-one deal if you're lucky with your rolls. Is there a rule elsewhere that affects this?

[Sauriv]

You have a chance of getting 2 cp for each cp spent. This makes LoG unique among cp generating lists. The rule say that you get an extra (not "the one you just spend back") cp so it's just fine, roll both and hope for the best! 

The benefit of Kurdoss isn't just that you have a chance of getting one extra cp, but that you have a chance of denying your opponent a cp that could be very important!