AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[azdimy]

1 hour ago, MothmanDraws said:

As for survey I honestly still think the answers are the same, most units are still overcosted, sure some have solid value now but to some extent that value came now due to removing the alternative 90pt warrior blocks for our troops. Myrmidesh and twinsouls do amazing work but are still too costly.

My survey answer changed as the deamon side got hit really hard with the ghb points so it s now the entore range that is overcosted

Interresting on belakor. My friend plays him in boc and has some good rrsults with him. I think you re right. He patches some glaring issues that both boc and slaanesh cannot deal with

[CeleFAZE]

I think my problem with Belakor is that I like to play to theme quite a bit, and he just kind of breaks that. I love that we have the option for that level of control, but I'd much rather we had an in-faction option for it. In addition there's always the possibility that he could get pointed out of the ally range, and then a fairly expensive model becomes a pretty display piece.

[Enoby]

10 minutes ago, CeleFAZE said:

I think my problem with Belakor is that I like to play to theme quite a bit, and he just kind of breaks that. I love that we have the option for that level of control, but I'd much rather we had an in-faction option for it. In addition there's always the possibility that he could get pointed out of the ally range, and then a fairly expensive model becomes a pretty display piece.

Exact same here. On one hand, I'd like to remake this model:

With these style wings:

And while that would probably look cool, it still wouldn't feel in theme because it's not really a 'Slaanesh' model. It almost feels like cheating, even though it's not - same as if Nurgle got a new battletome with some OP debuff machine we could ally in. Yeah sure, it would improve us, but it would also feel like it wasn't really a Slaanesh win because we had to rely on another army. Same as allying in Glutos (when you could) - he was a really good ally, and could look very Nurgly if converted a little bit, but it wouldn't feel like a Nurgle victory at that point either. 

And you're also right with allies - if GW rules team turn around and say, "hey, Be'lekor is being used in all Chaos armies and we don't like him being that widespread, we'll make him 405 points" then that Be'lekor model becomes a nice shelf decoration. I enjoyed my Archaon conversion because it has the Slaanesh keyword (and Hedonite) and it's likely to be always usable in Slaanesh. I could really enjoy making a Be'lekor conversion but I don't know if it'd feel 'real' or reliable using it.

[azdimy]

I m condering using my old Be'lakor and a set of the twins wings to make him the proper size.I  haven t opened my boxes for the twins. Do they come with two sets of wings for dexcessa and synessa or are those sharing the same bits?

[Enoby]

2 minutes ago, azdimy said:

I m condering using my old Be'lakor and a set of the twins wings to make him the proper size.I  haven t opened my boxes for the twins. Do they come with two sets of wings for dexcessa and synessa or are those sharing the same bits?

Twin wings, if I'm remembering correctly So you'll have spare parts 

[Selpharia]

They share some of the pieces. The main peacock fringe on Dex and the upper parts of each Syn’s wings are unique, but the sides of the peacock fringe also make the bottom half of the wings

[Enoby]

10 minutes ago, Selpharia said:

They share some of the pieces. The main peacock fringe on Dex and the upper parts of each Syn’s wings are unique, but the sides of the peacock fringe also make the bottom half of the wings

Yeah, just had a quick check and this was what was left from Dexcessa that I could find:

So kind of wings, but not quite

[CeleFAZE]

Speaking of the twins, did anyone else notice that there's a picture of Synessa in the instructions wearing a sleeveless open robe that isn't in the kit? It looks pretty cool, and is shown like an alternate build, but the parts just aren't there to do it.

[Enoby]

5 minutes ago, CeleFAZE said:

Speaking of the twins, did anyone else notice that there's a picture of Synessa in the instructions wearing a sleeveless open robe that isn't in the kit? It looks pretty cool, and is shown like an alternate build, but the parts just aren't there to do it.

Where abouts is this? I had a look through the instruction book and couldn't find it - but I could well have missed it

Also, built some more (GW friendly this time) twinsouls

[azdimy]

28 minutes ago, Enoby said:

Also, built some more (GW friendly this time) twinsouls

They look really cool, which bits did you use for those heads?

[Enoby]

9 minutes ago, azdimy said:

They look really cool, which bits did you use for those heads?

Thanks I'm using the beastmen skulls for the skull box - I feel I've used about three whole skull boxes now!

37 minutes ago, Enoby said:

Where abouts is this? I had a look through the instruction book and couldn't find it - but I could well have missed it

Also, someone on Whatsapp sent me this (thank you!) for those who also couldn't find it:

[AronQ_]

Hello everyone! I want to ask one question, why Hellstriders with Hellscourges more popular than Hellstriders with Claw-spears? I watched that hedonites players take them more than claw variant.

 

[KrispyXIV]

1 hour ago, AronQ_ said:

Hello everyone! I want to ask one question, why Hellstriders with Hellscourges more popular than Hellstriders with Claw-spears? I watched that hedonites players take them more than claw variant.

 

As someone who has yet to run them, but whom has considered this...

Offense isn't the virtue I'm considering when taking hellstriders.  Neither variant offers good damage output - what they offer is (relatively) cheap board presence, wounds, and what passes for durability in Slaanesh.  Scourges offer a minor enhancement and synergy for durability, clawspears do not.  

...also I can realistically roll all my attack dice at once for scourges for the whole unit, which is a plus from the QoL perspective. 

[Elazar The Glorified]

I'm Claw-spears almost always at the moment. I have 2 units of each but haven't done much with the Scourges in a bit.

For me it's been a list consideration as I tend to run Glutos and with them primarily being used to tip numbers on objectives etc they usually end up being attacked at -1 to hit anyway and as yet nobody has wanted to waste All Out Attack on overkilling Hellstriders so the Rend and D2 on the charge have proven more useful in my lists than a redundant modifier for my opponent. They don't tend to stick around too long and the extra wound or two caused on that charge can make a big difference on capturing a contested objective or forcing battleshock etc.

If you're just comparing on the merit of the units in isolation though I can see why the Scourges win out as agree they're never going to be killy enough to be a hammer unit so if you haven't got it elsewhere you benefit more from them being a bit tougher to remove.

[azdimy]

4 hours ago, AronQ_ said:

Hello everyone! I want to ask one question, why Hellstriders with Hellscourges more popular than Hellstriders with Claw-spears? I watched that hedonites players take them more than claw variant.

 

I don t think it really matters as they they both get their bonus on the charge but charging is not what you want to do with them. They are here to block your opponent from charging your hammer units. I go with the cheapest in points. Why they are currently both at 135 I don t know but spearclaw used to be 10pt cheaper and are less likely to break in transport so that s how I built mine

[LeonBox]

Hellstriders with scourges vs claw-spears is simple for me: scourges is 2 attacks with the same profile of 3/4 but no rend. Double the attacks minus rend seems better to me than half the attacks with 1 rend and a situational 2 damage (I've not done the maths so I could be wrong). 

[Elazar The Glorified]

2 hours ago, LeonBox said:

Hellstriders with scourges vs claw-spears is simple for me: scourges is 2 attacks with the same profile of 3/4 but no rend. Double the attacks minus rend seems better to me than half the attacks with 1 rend and a situational 2 damage (I've not done the maths so I could be wrong). 

On the charge the Claw-spears are better mathematically. If charged or in an ongoing combat the Scourges are better (except in the fringe case against 2+ saves then Claws stay better)

Edited August 13, 2021 by Elazar The Glorified

[Enoby]

I know a while ago we were talking about how to beat Megagargants, and I can't remember if it was mentioned but I think the Dreadful Visage would probably be very good against them - mostly the small ones who have a poor save and really require to strike first. They have no dispelling, so they're not likely to deny it very often. 

[Enoby]

Also, @Sorrow @AngryPanda @Carnith @CeleFAZE @LeonBox @Elazar The Glorified@azdimy @Nagashfan @Jaskier @MothmanDraws @TimeToWaste85 

(I know I've forgotten people - sorry! - I'm very bad with names, but I do remember your profile pics!)

As you're all quite active on this thread/have an interest in the survey, I thought I'd run these questions past you. These would all be in addition to the old questions, but I'm wondering about edits and additions

 

 

• A "how do you feel" question about each daemon (for points)

 

• Do you feel that AoS 3 Slaanesh is in a better or worse place than AoS 2 Slaanesh in terms of power

  • Much better

  • A bit better

  • About the same

  • A bit worse

  • Much worse

  •  

• What would you like to see most in a supplement book or tome celestial (tick all that apply)

  • An alternative use of depravity (so not for summoning)

  • More support within the allegiance abilities for mortal only armies

  • A rewrite to the Slaangor Warscroll

  • More hosts/host options to theme an army around

  • More ways to get depravity points 

  • Synessa getting an extra spell to cast

  • More synergies available

  • More ways to use Slaves to Darkness and Beasts of Chaos in a Hedonites army

  • Revised spell lores

  • More core battalions available to Slaanesh

  • More grand strategies available to Slaanesh

  • More battle tactics available to Slaanesh

•  Do you like summoning being a large part of Slaanesh's playstyle (note, this does not mean 'a part at all', but rather referring to it being the arguably strongest part of the allegiance ability)

  • I strongly dislike summoning being a large part of the Slaanesh allegiance ability 

  • I somewhat dislike summoning being a large part of the Slaanesh allegiance ability

  • I have no strong opinion

  • I somewhat like summoning being a large part of the Slaanesh allegiance ability

  • I strongly like summoning being a large part of the Slaanesh allegiance ability

• Out of the following warscrolls, please tick all you feel you would like to have a warscroll tweek or rewrite 

  • None of them

  • (List of all units, started with most requested first)

• Compared to other factions, how do you view the quality of the Slaanesh rules (note, this does not mean strength, but rather choices available, how fun the army is to play, how fun the army is to build lists for, how interesting the warscrolls are etc.)

  • Much below the average battletome

  • A little bit below the average battletome

  • About the same as the average battletome

  • A little bit above the average battletome

  • Much above the average battletome

Edited August 13, 2021 by Enoby

[azdimy]

So surprise surprise my opponent did not bring Nagash but Arkhan and more mortek guards probably affraid of Belakor
Scenario: Feral forray

My list
Invader
Belakor
Infernal Enrapturess
Chaos sorcerer lord
Contorded Epitome
5 hellstriders
5 hellstriders
10 blissbarb archers
10 chaos knights
5 slickblade seekers
Dreadful visage

My opponent
Petrifex
20 mortek
20 mortek
10 mortek
1 gothizzar harvester
Akhan the black
5 kavalos deathriders
3 necropolis stalker
1 liege cavalos
1 soulmason


We re both 9 drops, my opponent won the roll off, and starts deploying to choose who goes first

Deployment.
Hellstriders cover the left and center objectives the rest of my army is on the right side. The enrapturess is at the center within 24in a Arkhan for him to reroll cast and hopefully get him to miscast
He has 20 mortek on the left, 20 mortek, the stalkers in the center with arkahn and soul mason behind. Everyrhing else on the right side harvester behind the 10 mortek

Finishing deploying first my opponent lets me go first

Turn 1 roll a 1 with my rod of misrule (lets get those rolls out of the way early on) , archers run for 1in and find themselves outside of 18in of anything, I send the slickblade against the 10 mortek and the harvester did like 4 wounds on each which he promptly healed with Arkhan on his turn. In return I lose the slickblade unit. On his turn I use dark master on Arkhan. Roll a 1 in the hero phase (it s going to be that kind of game)
The enrapturess makes 1 mortal wound to him on a double but he now has protection of Nagash and gets a free teleport from it
He pushes forward  and keep arkhan in the middle of the board, I roll a 1 again for dark master in the mvt phase

Turn 2 I win the roll and decide to take it. I slow down the unstoppable advance of his line with both units of hellstriders staying 3in away. I fail my charge with the knights. Belakor charges the harvester and does 5 wound to it with finest hour on. His turn, the enrapturess does 1 wound again to Arkhan, he sends 20 mortek with +1attack from the liege at belakor and promptly kills him, his main line kill all but 1 hellstrider . He now controls 5 of the 6 objectives and burn 1 for extra vp
Turn 3 he gets the double turn and I am grasping at straws at this point. He charges the knights with 10 mortek guards, the stalker charge the enrapturess and while I get to destroy 1 of his objective it does not matter anymore.
To add insult to injury in my turn 3 I roll a 1 with the rod of misrule again, try to complete savage spearhead with the archers and a long charge from 30 summoned deamonettes to then realize summoned units do not count to complete that tactic and we called it

My post game thoughts without any consideration of the dice - I need to lower my drops. I ve looked at the list and I can include a battle regiment to go down to 7 and losing hunters of the heartland on the hellstriders that I don t really need.
When I won the priority turn 2 I should have left him go for the double so maybe I could have rolled at least  one 3+ on dark master this game and I could have avoided getting doubled the turn after?
I completely misplaced my knights they should have been behind the hellstriders in the middle of the board. They are not fast enough to redeploy from one side to another, The terrain hindered them too much with their bigger than regular cav base size and I could not get anywhere useful in time
I keep forgetting summoned units cannot complete savage spearheads (while units starting in reserve or teleporting can?)

[Nagashfan]

7 hours ago, Enoby said:

Also, @Sorrow @AngryPanda @Carnith @CeleFAZE @LeonBox @Elazar The Glorified@azdimy @Nagashfan @Jaskier @MothmanDraws @TimeToWaste85 

(I know I've forgotten people - sorry! - I'm very bad with names, but I do remember your profile pics!)

As you're all quite active on this thread/have an interest in the survey, I thought I'd run these questions past you. These would all be in addition to the old questions, but I'm wondering about edits and additions

 

 

• A "how do you feel" question about each daemon (for points)

 

• Do you feel that AoS 3 Slaanesh is in a better or worse place than AoS 2 Slaanesh in terms of power

  • Much better

  • A bit better

  • About the same

  • A bit worse

  • Much worse

  •  

• What would you like to see most in a supplement book or tome celestial (tick all that apply)

  • An alternative use of depravity (so not for summoning)

  • More support within the allegiance abilities for mortal only armies

  • A rewrite to the Slaangor Warscroll

  • More hosts/host options to theme an army around

  • More ways to get depravity points 

  • Synessa getting an extra spell to cast

  • More synergies available

  • More ways to use Slaves to Darkness and Beasts of Chaos in a Hedonites army

  • Revised spell lores

  • More core battalions available to Slaanesh

  • More grand strategies available to Slaanesh

  • More battle tactics available to Slaanesh

•  Do you like summoning being a large part of Slaanesh's playstyle (note, this does not mean 'a part at all', but rather referring to it being the arguably strongest part of the allegiance ability)

  • I strongly dislike summoning being a large part of the Slaanesh allegiance ability 

  • I somewhat dislike summoning being a large part of the Slaanesh allegiance ability

  • I have no strong opinion

  • I somewhat like summoning being a large part of the Slaanesh allegiance ability

  • I strongly like summoning being a large part of the Slaanesh allegiance ability

• Out of the following warscrolls, please tick all you feel you would like to have a warscroll tweek or rewrite 

  • None of them

  • (List of all units, started with most requested first)

• Compared to other factions, how do you view the quality of the Slaanesh rules (note, this does not mean strength, but rather choices available, how fun the army is to play, how fun the army is to build lists for, how interesting the warscrolls are etc.)

  • Much below the average battletome

  • A little bit below the average battletome

  • About the same as the average battletome

  • A little bit above the average battletome

  • Much above the average battletome

I’ll go over all this and provide my feed back

[TimeToWaste85]

Enoby, I’d be happy to help, but I’m a bit of an armchair player at this point; between family and the pandemic, I haven’t gotten a game in in ages. Certainly nothing in for 3.0. I paint, I sculpt, I theory-craft lists, but that’s about it. 

[AronQ_]

I have a question, if I take pretenders host, only one of my general will have trait, but all of them will have artefacts? If not, what is the reason to pick pretenders host. Because pretenders or godseekers seems better with their battle traits.

[azdimy]

31 minutes ago, AronQ_ said:

I have a question, if I take pretenders host, only one of my general will have trait, but all of them will have artefacts? If not, what is the reason to pick pretenders host. Because pretenders or godseekers seems better with their battle traits.

Are you asking about why take Invader?

If so, extra command point each time you lose a general, access to lurid haze subfaction. I personally quite like the command traits in Invader

[Elazar The Glorified]

@azdimy - thanks for sharing, what's the current battalion setup for your list? Just curious. I'm struggling to find enough value from the other battalions to justify going above 1 or 2 drop for the priority by running a Battle Regiment or two but might just be my lists and/or style. 

@Enoby will have a look and a think and come back to you 🙂