AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[Poryague]

 

1 hour ago, LeonBox said:

I’m struggling with the best list to come up with to deal with 2x9 Troggoths (which is the list my opponent took last time). I abandoned the idea of a Keeper general because it messes with battleline too much. I’ve settled on Glutos for sure, but everything else is up for grabs. Any suggestions on dealing with 18 3+ 5++ Troggoths that come back on a 4+?

Blissbarb seekers if they wound can peel some armor -1 save. 

Invaders  command trait can remove some more armor - 1 save though they get +1 to hit. They probably are getting that anyways from trogg boss .

Sigvald can ignore ward save.

Invaders spell Lash of slaanesh can remove some attack characteristics temporarily.

Invaders spell Pavane of slaanesh could slow them down permanently with a good roll. May want the spell portal for safe distance.

Those look annoying especially under bad moon and or buffed.

Edited March 18, 2023 by Poryague

[Enoby]

Can't play quite yet, but have everything ready to go! 

[Poryague]

3 minutes ago, Enoby said:

Can't play quite yet, but have everything ready to go! 

Subfaction? And list?

[Jaskier]

Our Battlelline options got expanded in the sense Hellstriders are unlocked very easily (any Mortal general) and Seekers are now straight Battleline. 

As far as viability goes, Blissbarbs are incredible, straight up. The maths on Daemonettes is they actually outfight things like Chosen per-point once you hit 24DP (especially with a +1 attack source like the Icon with which their Euphoric potential blows past nearly anything else, making them a prime Excess target) and, once you hit 36DP (and you will after they smash something) are respectably durable in big blobs thanks to the 5+ Rally, -1 to hit and 5++. Seekers are comparable to the Daemonettes per-point but trade not reinforcing as well (1" range + cavalry bases) for infinite scaling (potential +1 attack every turn) but in practice will usually be a hyper-mobile screen that can threaten anywhere on the board and clog space. The only note against them is Hellscourge Hellstriders are looking real good too if you have them unlocked. 

To be frank, I've never considered running Daemonettes in my list for events before, but now I'm looking at a 20 or even 30 blob as a serious option for a 'second wave' combat block. That should tell you much better they got. 

Edited March 19, 2023 by Jaskier

[Cataphract]

With the changes to Slickblades and Blissbarb Seekers is a list with 2 of each viable?

[KrispyXIV]

1 minute ago, Cataphract said:

With the changes to Slickblades and Blissbarb Seekers is a list with 2 of each viable?

I certainly intend to find out.  I feel like both units are extremely appealing on paper.

[LeonBox]

The boys (and girls) are ready to rock! 

[Enoby]

Had a short game, though unfortunately had to be called early - only got to the end of turn one, though Glutos had died to a trogboss after failing his saves and after saves to a huge damage roll Bad luck more than anything really! 

[Sonnenspeer]

2 hours ago, LeonBox said:

The boys (and girls) are ready to rock! 

Same here. For a tournament next Saturday. Last time with the old rules...

[LeonBox]

1 hour ago, Enoby said:

Had a short game, though unfortunately had to be called early - only got to the end of turn one, though Glutos had died to a trogboss after failing his saves and after saves to a huge damage roll Bad luck more than anything really! 

Exact same thing is happening to me right now! His Troggboss damage roll on Glutos: 

 

 

[The Wah]

13 minutes ago, LeonBox said:

Exact same thing is happening to me right now! His Troggboss damage roll on Glutos: 

 

 

In true Slaaneshi style, the Grand Gourmand is a Glutton for Punishment. 

Edited March 19, 2023 by The Wah

[LeonBox]

Just finished, won 27-16 (he conceded bottom of 5). Early thoughts: 

 

DP generation is so easy I can see them errata’ing the numbers up pretty fast. I generated 72ish, and that was with quite a few forgotten temptation dice. 
 

Exalted Seekers of both flavours are excellent. Slickblades are super speedy and generate so much DP with EK. 

Our magic sucks hard now unless you take the epitome. My other armies are Skaven and Soulblight, and I sure do miss pluses and re-rolls. 
 

I’ll post a full batrep with pics in a bit. Overall, I’m super impressed with the new book. And temptation dice are *so* much fun. 

[KrispyXIV]

9 minutes ago, LeonBox said:

em errata’ing the numbers up pretty fast. I generated 72ish, and that was with quite a few forgotten temptation dice. 

How often did your opponent let you have DP instead of eating Mortals?  

[Selpharia]

Slaanesh magic has sucked for a while; it’s just not reliable. I tend to consider it a nice little bonus when it goes off, but you really can’t plan around it, except with the epitome. Re: depravity, I think they should just cap it at 36.

Edited March 19, 2023 by Selpharia

[LeonBox]

3 minutes ago, KrispyXIV said:

How often did your opponent let you have DP instead of eating Mortals?  

Towards the end he realized that there was no point not eating the mortals in a Troggoth-heavy list where he could just regen the wounds back. I would say he gave me maybe 5 dice worth of DPs and the rest were all mortals. 

 

1 minute ago, Selpharia said:

Slaanesh magic has sucked for a while; it’s just not reliable. I tend to consider it a nice little bonus when it goes off, but you really can’t plan around it, except with the epitome. 

Yes, but now we don’t have Glutos’ +1 either, for a faction completely without pluses to cast. Pretty rough because when I did get Phantasmagoria/Soulslice off, they were amazing. 

[MothmanDraws]

8 minutes ago, LeonBox said:

Towards the end he realized that there was no point not eating the mortals in a Troggoth-heavy list where he could just regen the wounds back. I would say he gave me maybe 5 dice worth of DPs and the rest were all mortals. 

Tbh i think this is a learning thing, if you play again and he never takes dice all has to worry about is mitigating eophoric killers to gut your depravity

"Just say no to drugs"

also this effect is easier  than expected

Edited March 19, 2023 by MothmanDraws

[KrispyXIV]

4 minutes ago, LeonBox said:

Towards the end he realized that there was no point not eating the mortals in a Troggoth-heavy list where he could just regen the wounds back. I would say he gave me maybe 5 dice worth of DPs and the rest were all mortals. 

What I'm kindof wondering is if Slaanesh is going to be an army where its very easy for your opponent to misplay and feed like crazy.  6d3 mortals a round is nasty and valuable, but its not tons more than what I've had to absorb playing into Nurgle.  I think the correct play is generally going to be to avoid feeding Slaanesh DP, but some folks are going to want to avoid hurting their own stuff... 

Even in your case, 5d6 DP is an average of 17-18 - the difference between you getting a big summon and retaining all your DP bonuses, and getting a big summon and giving up damage output and your ward.

There's also going to be the element of avoiding feeding something soft'squishy to Euphoric Killers, but we may have enough rend and rend buffing now to have plenty of agency in picking good targets.  

[Selpharia]

The delight of it, is that the opponent has to manage to do both. The Slaanesh player can focus temptation dice mortals on the units that are the worst EK targets, while the opponent has to figure out how to shield the soft targets with a set of units that are getting nibbled away at what can be quite a clip

[MothmanDraws]

1 minute ago, KrispyXIV said:

What I'm kindof wondering is if Slaanesh is going to be an army where its very easy for your opponent to misplay and feed like crazy.  6d3 mortals a round is nasty and valuable, but its not tons more than what I've had to absorb playing into Nurgle.  I think the correct play is generally going to be to avoid feeding Slaanesh DP, but some folks are going to want to avoid hurting their own stuff... 

Even in your case, 5d6 DP is an average of 17-18 - the difference between you getting a big summon and retaining all your DP bonuses, and getting a big summon and giving up damage output and your ward.

There's also going to be the element of avoiding feeding something soft'squishy to Euphoric Killers, but we may have enough rend and rend buffing now to have plenty of agency in picking good targets.  

The trick vs euphoric isnt to send tough stuff its give them low wound units, 10 man 1 wound chaff catching seekers t1 charge will stunt the ramp. I think mirror and pretenders depravity spell will be key vs good players 

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

I'm giggling with diabolic excitement reading about all the luscious new stuff! Loving the Temptation dice thing... exactly the sort of mechanic I was hoping for, deeply flavoursome and fun. 

And I'm glad the Masque is now a very attractive choice, as I'm just putting the finishing touches to the model! 

[Selpharia]

The Masque has been a real sleeper hit; they were the pick of a bad lot in the last battletome, able to tie up units significantly above their weight class. In this new incarnation, I think they’re even better; I can’t really see a list without their unique tech.

Edited March 19, 2023 by Selpharia

[MothmanDraws]

Even outside of tech the big question for army is turn 1 12 depravity minimum or you die. Considering at worst a 10 wound screen catches seekers and no dice you are at 10 depravity and relying on all out defence to not take losses. The masque can avoid the worst screens to go for better depravity value with a more reliable charge. Her + casting the pretenders spell is the most garunteed t1 12 depravity you will get

[Poryague]

The new slaanesh spells are strong. The range and lack of a good caster is a problem. Having to cast spell portal and then the spell is rough.

[Unit1126PLL]

With depravity, don't forget you only generate it in your own turn.

If you kill a 10 wound unit every battle round with your euphoric killers, you will only have 50 depravity (plus temptations if your opponent agrees to them) by the end of the game.

[LeonBox]

So my battle today was aganst Gloomspite Gitz (almost entirely Troggoths). My list was as follows: 

Glutos (Soulslice Shards) 

Shardspeaker (Phantasmagoria) 

Lord of Pain (General, Crown of Dark Secrets, Strength of Godhood) 

The Masque 

5 Slickblade Seekers 

5 Bissbarb Archers 

10 Painbringers 

5 Twinsouls 

3 Slaangors 

My opponent's list, roughly: 

Troggoth Boss, ability to summon Scuttletide and one-shot one of the game's toughest characters, 4++ that went away if he rolled a 1 (narrator: he did not roll a 1) 

2x9 Troggoths that between rally, regen and resurrect are tankier than a T-800 

20 stabbers, nets, curious willingness to generate free DP for the opponent 

Skagrott, curse of arrow attraction 

5 spore dudes that could block shooting (but not well enough) 

2x3 River Trolls, stinky aura of -1 to hit, the game's most overtuned debuff to saves 

Fungoid Cave Shaman, Hand of Mork (or Gork or whatever) 

The battleplan was Ours For The Taking (table 2, battleplan 4). It's three objectives arranged diagonally, with L-shaped deployment zones. Bonus VPs for controlling opponent's home objective and having GCs on the centre one. 

Turn 1 Slaanesh 
He had one fewer drop and made me go first. Deployment is shown in the image below, but I have a feeling that this is gonna come out weird as it won't let me directly insert images so let's see what happens. 

I deployed my Slickblades directly opposite his Stabberz on my left flank, as I don't think he realized the danger in giving me an easy EK target. Behind my Slickblades were my Blissbarb Seekers. My centre was anchored by my Painbringers, with Glutos alongside them and the Blissbarbs, LoP and Shardspeaker behind. Out on my right flank, the Twinsouls screened for the Slaangors.

Turn 1 magic was a wash. I got Dreadful Visage off, but it was too far to do anything (but would still prove later useful anyway). 

I moved everything up into the centre and got the Blissbarbs in range to plink at his big central Troggoth unit. I actually killed one, which was nice. 

On the left flank, my Bissbarb Seekers did a handful of wounds to the stabbers, and my Slickblades charged in. 

I made the first misplay of the game -- the Masque had come on behind his big central block, but he'd screened his characters out with the spore dudes. I charged her in and ate 2 wounds from the River Trolls. Because there was a real danger of her dying, I activated her first. This meant I couldn't use all-out attack on the Seekers, as I needed to use all-out defence to tank the stabbers' attacks. 

The Masque whiffed pretty hard, with -1 to hit doing a lot of harm (who plays an army with easy access to -1 to hit anyway), killing like 2 spore dudes.

The stabbers almost killed a Seeker but I got lucky with my saves. My return attacks were not as impactful as I'd have liked, and I generated 10 DPs from Euphoric Killers. For the turn, I totalled 15 DP and got the -1 to hit buff. 

On my right flank, the Twinsouls advanced. I kept the Slaangors out of big rock range. 

Turn 1 Gitz 

My favourite ever endless spell, Scuttletide (spoiler alert: it isn't my favourite spell) goes off and gets parked next to my LoP, as he's decided that this 3CP-getting monster needs to die ASAP. He does 3 wounds to him with the subsequent roll. 

He tries to retreat his surviving stabberz out of combat with the Slickblades, but he doesn't have the room to do so. 

In the middle, his big Deathstar block moves up, but isn't quite brave enough to charge my 10-block of Painbringers backed by a LoP who's going to make his 9 troggoths go down to 1 attack each. He throws a few rocks and kills a Painbringer or two. I have parked my LoP exactly far enough that he can't get sharpshootered. 

The Troggoth boss decides the Masque needs to die. I'm sorta sad (because I misused her) but also not that upset because she's holding his big fighty general at the back of the board. 

The Twinsouls get wrecked pretty hard by 9 Troggoths. Those rock throws are really incredibly brutal, especially on MSU elite units like these. They subsequently get wiped out in combat. At least the Slaangors are OK. 

We roll for priority, and I win. I take the turn. 
Turn 1 victory points: Slaanesh 5 - Gitz 4 

Turn 2 Slaanesh 

I eagerly take the turn because I need to bring some magic to bear on the Troggoth deathstar in front of me. I dispel Scuttletide (thanks be to the Dark Prince because it's the worst thing ever) and I get Soulslice Shards off (which will prove to be huge). I send my Slickblades after his resurrected stabbers (who came on near the back) and send my Blissbarb Seekers to threaten the flank of his big Troggoth block. 

My Myrmidesh, folllowed by a healed LoP (thanks to heroic recovery), the Shardspeaker and Glutos, move into the middle. 

My Slaangors decide that slaughter shouldn't come at any cost, and run away from the big Troggoth unit on my right flank. 

The Shardspeaker puts -1 save onto the big Troggoth central block, and the Blissbarb Seekers kill Skaggrot. I forgot about the LoP's +1/+1 aura, which was super pesky as I would have done so much more damage to the Troggoths with them. Despite this, I kill 4 Troggoths. 

Glutos, who'd sneaked around the side with his turn 2 run and charge, whiffs against the River Trolls. This will prove to be costly. 

The Slickblades get into the Stabbers in the backfield and wipe them out. They generate another 10 DP in doing so (I hit the 24-DP buff at this point). 

At the bottom of my turn, I control his objective and the centre, but have lost my home objective. I score 6 VPs despite this. 

Gitz Turn 2 

I didn't get many pics during this turn, probably because of how traumatic it was. In brief: 

- His River Trolls vomit on a Finest-Houred Glutos, not only stripping him of ALL save buffs but putting him on -1. Glutos has gone from a 2+ save to a 4+. Can't stress enough how much I underestimated those trolls. 

- His general charges into Glutos and, due to the save debuffs, puts three wounds through on him. He then rolls this for damage: 

Glutos, already on 5 wounds, should have statistically saved 6 of those 18 wounds and lived to fight another day. He does not. 

The Blissbarb Seekers, who redeployed to dodge the Troggoth. 

He wins the double, and I weep at the amount of hurt he's about to put on me. 

Turn 2 points: Slaanesh 11 - Gitz 8 

Gitz Turn 3 

Turns out I also forgot to get pics for this turn, too. In brief: 

- My Lord of Pain was unable to keep up with the chip damage from rock and vomit attacks and dies. 

- My Myrmidesh die from the Troggoths (now unencumbered by the Lord of Pain's debuff) and the Troggoth boss. 

- He rezzed the little spore dudes because apparently Gitz can rez 3" away from opponents and zoning out their Loonshrine is functionally impossible? Would be nice to have that on the Fane. 

- His other big block of Troggoths starts for the centre, leaving 3 River Trolls babysitting my home objective. 

Slaanesh Turn 3 

My Slickblades sweep through his backfield to threaten his Fungoid (who's been zipping around using Hand of Gork to support Troggoths here and there). 

The Slaangors move up, ready to charge his River Trolls now their big nasty brethren have left. 

An action pic of his big block of Troggoths moving to the centre for some reason: 

The Slaangors make their charge and do decentish, killing a River Troll and putting 3 wounds on another (that -1 to hit is brutal). 

My Slickblades kill his Shaman. I put 7 wounds on the Troggoth boss from shooting (and with -2 to his save from the Twisted Mirror and Seeker debuffs). He promptly regens/heroic recoveries most of this away. You come at the Troggoth king, you'd best not miss. 

I win the priority roll and take the double. 

Turn 3 score: Slaanesh 16 - Gitz 13 

Turn 4 Slaanesh

I get Phantasmagmoria on his Troggoth Boss. This is misplay #2, as I'm aiming to kill his Troggoth boss, not run away from him. It should have gone onto his River Trolls. 

I also get Dreadful Visage off and slow his River Trolls down. 

Shooting takes his Troggoth to a single wound remaining. The Slickblades finish it off and kill a River Troll. Also I summon a Viceleader because Acquiescence might be nice later idk. 

The state of the table at the end of my turn. 

 

Gitz Turn 4 

Not too much happens, because he has no hero phase now. He kills my Slickblades with Troggoths and River Trolls. He doesn't score much because he hasn't got much in position. He also rezes 2 River Trolls because he passes his rez roll literally every time. 

I win the roll for turn 5. 

Turn 4 score: Slaanesh 21 - Gitz 16 

Turn 5 Slaanesh 

I don't have many viable battle tactics left, so I go nuts with a Slaanesh original -- Excessive Carnage. All I need to do is get either my Viceleader or Shardspeaker onto the central objective and kill one spore dude. Thankfully I manage this. 

My shooting plinks wounds off his Troggoths because they can't auto-pass battleshock. He still passes. 

Below is the state of the table at the end of my turn 5. He declines to take his turn 5 because he's 11 points down. 

Final Score: Slaanesh 27 - Gitz 16 

Edited March 20, 2023 by LeonBox