New to AoS - Considering starting Gloomspite Gitz, need advice on possible first purchases.

[Nez]

Good evening Loonbosses!

I am new to Age of Sigmar, I've picked up a copy of the core rules, and after browsing through the different factions on GW's website, I have settled on the Gitz as the army for my first foray into the Mortal Realms. I've totally fell in love with their models, particularly the Troggoths, Squigs, Arachnarok and Gobbapalooza kits! (So pretty much everything in their range).

However, despite the rule of cool, I'm looking to make some solid foundation purchases first and foremost, models that will form the core of my army and be useful in a number of lists as my collections, and thus options, grow. 

I'm simply looking for some advice on which units will fit the bill for the above needs. I am going to have a good look through the Gloomspite discussion thread when I have more time, however a quick search on the forums didn't turn up much in terms of beginner advice for this faction. 

I'm not going to be playing competitively, more often than not it'll be against friends, and in rare cases the odd pick up game at my local store.

I'd ideally like as much of my army as possible to be plastic, it's much easier to work with and I find the models so much easier to obtain from my local store when they're in plastic.

What kinds of units should I be looking to purchase for some small point games? And what are some ideal unit sizes for the units in question?

Thanks in advance!

Nez

[Malakree]

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz

Leaders
Skragrott, The Loonking (220)
- General
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)

Battleline
60 x Stabbas (360)
- Pokin Spears & Moon Shields
6 x Squig Herd (70)

Total: 740 / 750
Wounds: 82

Personally I would recommend starting with this list. It's 740 points which makes it perfect for smaller games while you learn the rules, uses all the mechanics except endless spells but doesn't have any complicated buff/rules stacking to worry about.

More importantly it gives you an amazing core army which you can build into any sort of gloomspite list.

60 stabbas is a ****** to paint but is a solid include for any army. It puts bodies/wounds on the board to protect and screen your more important units. Best of all they are generic battleline with no questions asked.

Skragrott is our named hero, he has an amazing model/warscroll and fits in any gloomspite army whether you make him your general or not.

Similarly the fungoid is a nice model who does everything you want, he is the wizard of choice for all gloomspite armies.

Lastly is the squig herd. A cheap and solid unit either as filler or in big units of 24 as we discovered at heat 1. Since you buy them as a box of 12 this means you can field 2 units of 6, which they are battleline if you have a Moonclan general, like skragrott, this gives you 2 more battleline units. 

All of this together means not only do you have a solid 750 point army but you already have both the general and 3 battleline for a 2k army! No matter what you decide to buy or include from this point on you have a legal 2k list.

Whether you go for grots and the gobbapalooza, troggs, squigs or spiderfang it can all build off this central block. Throw in the endless spells and you can even get to 1k points, not to mention they are also lovely models.

Hope this helps, we about posting if you have anymore questions.

[Skabnoze]

Gloomspite is effectively 3 distinct different allegiances squished together - Moonclan, troggoths, and spiderfang.  Those break down even further into 5 major army builds:  moonclan grots, squigs, spiders, troggoths, or any of the previous stuff mixed together.

If you are primarily playing for fun then there is honestly no real wrong way to mix these things together.  You should be able to have fun and be successful with any of them in a local setting that is not super-competitive.  I would suggest that you browse around the GW web store and figure out what things really interest you the most as a starting point.  

If you are interested in the big sampler platter approach with a mix of everything then @Malakree‘s suggestion is good.  The only thing I would add onto that is either a standard Loonboss or a Loonboss with Great Cave Squig since his list is missing synergy for the big grots unit and both of those heroes have the main command ability you will want to use with grots (stab em good).  A box of fanatics is another good inclusion and should bring you close to 1000.

But if playing primarily squigs, troggoths, or spiders really interests you then your initial purchasing decisions might be different.  But starting with grots is a good core force and you can sprinkle in other units as you build up your army.

If you are mainly playing friendly games with friends then honestly nothing in the army is a bad choice.  Even units that people online often call bad, like Aleguzzler Gargants, work fine in friendly games.

[svnvaldez]

3 hours ago, Nez said:

 I'm not going to be playing competitively, more often than not it'll be against friends, and in rare cases the odd pick up game at my local store.

I think the army is good enough where you can purchase 1 of each unit and have the army perform at a 50% win rate. Careful with what I said... 50% win rate as in when you play with  your friends you will win half the time and lose half the time. When I decide to by an army for competitive play I'm looking at if I can go 4-1 (80%) in a competitive event which is very different then your circumstance.

I truly believe nothing in the army is "trash". Definitely there are better units in the book then others. The minimum required amount of battleline units in a 2k list is 3, in 1k its 2. In most situations you will want that number, 2 in 1k and 3 in 2k. I think most of us in this forum would agree 60 stabbas is the best battleline unit and it is factual 6 squig herds is the cheapest.  @Malakree suggested list set up is very logical and 100% where I would personally start.

But I'm going to argue for something slightly different. I would say buy the units you like but only buy 1 unit of them at the min unit size. Only buy multiples of a kit if you are convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that you like the unit both in game and in your collection. Once you decide you like a unit and know exactly what role that unit is serving in your army should you start buying more models for that unit to get it to the max unit size / second unit. Or maybe you figure out that unit best serves its role at the min unit size and then your done. Even in a good list... you can squeeze in 1 unit of the models you like into an otherwise optimized list and be fine. So you bought 3 trolls and you decide they are not the best? So what... your list can spare 160 points imo. So the purchase wasn't a bad one... you are using the models you like and they may not be doing the perfect job but they are doing a job and are doing it cheap. But if you bought a unit of 12 trolls now we are talking 500+ points and you better have a serious plan for those guys if they are eating 1/4 of your 2k army.

You said you like Troggoths, Squigs, Arachnarok and Gobbapalooza kits! Of those only Troggoths and Squigs (either hoppers or herds) are "battleline if" So pick 1 of those units and buy 1 box. But since they are "battleline if" you can't have 1 troll unit and 1 squig unit be your 2 battleline. It will have to be 2 squig units (1 box of 10 in 2x 5 units) or (1 troll unit of 3, don't buy another box of 3 trolls (see above), you are forced now to have a unit of 3 trolls and 20 grots)

You are going to find that a unit of 3 trolls/20 grots or 2 units of 5 squigs isn't killing anything or holding objectives since they don't have enough bodies/damage output. Your options are up the unit size of the trolls or squigs or stabbas.

If you decide you want to up the stabbas then you have 1 unit of min trolls and 60 stabbas or 1 unit of squigs (5 or 10) and 1 unit of 60 stabbas. This would be fine imo. Or if you decided to up the unit size on the trolls or squigs... go with the squigs since the wound to point ratio is much better. So now you have 1 unit max squigs and 1 unit of min squigs. That will also be fine for the games your playing. 

Another option is just to keep the units at there min size and start buying other pieces for your army such as the Arachnarok... I think you'll still find that you are not killing anything or holding objectives so you'll need to look at adding something to fill the void.

Is any of this better than 3 trolls and 60 stabbas or 5 squigs and 60 stabbas or 20 squigs and 60 stabbas? No. But you'll still win games when your not playing in a hyper competitive environment (assuming your friends are not optimizing their list).

That is how I would go about recommending my friends to start AOS. I have never regretted buying a single unique kit for my collection. Countless times I have regretted buying multiples of a kit hoping it would serve a role that something else just does better.

[Fisren]

As long as its for casual, anything goes pretty much. Any number of stabbas are always good as a core unit for gloomspite, but personally I play a 1k troggoth-based army (1x dankhold boss, 2x3 rockgut, 1x3 fellwater, 1x fungoid shaman, then fillers). I enjoyed a troggoth army due to low model count (not likely to win objective matches), but they're pretty tanky and decently strong, (and also low model count!). 

The stronger units right now include playing around stabbas with buffs (loonboss, snifflers, sporesplatta) and fanatics, as well as boingrot bounderz (decent MW output). 

Most units are pretty decent (and each play a different role), so there aren't any really BAD purchases per-say right now. (ok, maybe no shootas since their rules are kinda funky as they only get buffs in melee... despite having bows *shrugs*). 

[Malakree]

To be clear and reiterate what people above have said. I suggested the list I did because it will give you a baseline off which you can build anything else you like, you don't need to worry about having 3 battleline, taking up your behemoth slots or anything like that. It's a generic core which you can expand around, nothing more or less.

With you being new to the game the list is about as bland and simplistic as I could make it while still getting you a nice spread of rules and a solid base which easily translates to 2k. If there is a particular set of models you like, the Troggoths are such beautiful models and so much fun to paint, then you can easily start with 9 Rockguts and a Dankhold Troggboss instead. Gloomspite is a Keyword heavy buff book as both @Skabnoze and @Fisren have said and you will definitely want to dive into those if/when you decide on a theme.

The one amendment I would make is to say that you don't need the 40 extra stabbas or fungoid, both are super solid with a wide range of applications but the other comments make me realise I'm being influenced by my own opinions on what makes a "good" Gloomspite army. So I'd revise the list I recommended to

Quote

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz

Leaders
Skragrott, The Loonking (220)
- General

Battleline
20 x Stabbas (130)
- Pokin Spears & Moon Shields
6 x Squig Herd (70)
6 x Squig Herd (70)

Total: 490 / 500
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 50

It further reduces the game size to 500 points, which is good for learning, and has the advantage you only need to paint 20 grots. This is probably the smallest and most versatile version of core 2k army which expands across all the themes with the fewest boxes at 3.  Same as my original idea but with all the excess fat cut away to more easily allow for the testing which @svnvaldez suggested.

[Skabnoze]

After serious reflection I say that you get drunk and then order a bunch of units online. 

[svnvaldez]

I'd keep this list in the back of your mind as you move to 2k. I feel like in a competitive event with very good play you could go 3-2 (maybe 2-3 is it's max) with it and it has the models you said you liked. But honestly by the time you build to 2k the new GH will have come out. Points will have changed etc. So just start slow. Facehammer did a good review as well if you are a fan of podcasts. http://facehammer.co.uk/2019/01/05/episode-66-gloomspite-gitz/

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz

Leaders
Skragrott, The Loonking (220)
- General
- Lore of the Moonclans: The Hand of Gork
Webspinner Shaman on Arachnarok Spider (300)
- Lore of the Spiderfangs: Sneaky Distraction
Madcap Shaman (80)
- Lore of the Moonclans: The Great Green Spite

Battleline
60 x Stabbas (360)
- Pokin Spears & Moon Shields
6 x Squig Herd (70)
6 x Squig Herd (70)

Units
1 x Brewgit (48)
1 x Boggleye (48)
1 x Scaremonger (48)
1 x Spiker (48)
1 x Shroomancer (48)
5 x Sporesplatta Fanatics (120)
10 x Boingrot Bounderz (200)
3 x Rockgut Troggoths (160)
6 x Sneaky Snufflers (70)

Battalions
Gobbapalooza (110)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400

My final bit of advice is that I don’t think a net list for Gloomspite has been found yet. It’s only been out for 2 months and has yet to win a GT. Here is the list a good Gloomspite player is using for a team event. I’m not trying to say this is the best list just it is the list that a good player is currently using.

https://thehonestwargamer.com/aos-list-rundowns/donal-taylor-captain-angel-wargamers-gloomspite-gitz/

[Nez]

Thanks for the replies so far guys, they’re very much appreciated. 

I like the idea of a smallish force to start with, the 500 point list mentioned above is affordable and seems like a reasonable amount of models to paint to get going. 

With regards to the Squig Herds however, are the units of 6 preferable simply to limit the amount of damage the inevitable Battleshock tests can do?

In which case are they best used as a throwaway unit to get a few extra attacks into a combat before being obliterated? 😁

[Malakree]

19 minutes ago, Nez said:

With regards to the Squig Herds however, are the units of 6 preferable simply to limit the amount of damage the inevitable Battleshock tests can do?

In which case are they best used as a throwaway unit to get a few extra attacks into a combat before being obliterated? 😁

It varies, the reason they are there is because they fill the battleline for a minimum number of points and you get 2 from a single box. They can be used either as small units of battleline (210 points for 3 units) or as blocks of 24 for a mass of wounds with good damage output.

At 6 they are good for a few different roles such as holding objectives which are "safe" or zoning out areas so that your opponent can't deepstrike into them, there's a 9" bubble for most setups. Next time I'm at a tournament I really need to snap a picture of the board when I do that with my Ironjawz to really illustrate it.

[Skabnoze]

21 minutes ago, Nez said:

With regards to the Squig Herds however, are the units of 6 preferable simply to limit the amount of damage the inevitable Battleshock tests can do?

Units of 6 are not necessarily "preferred".  Ask different people and you will get different answers.  I own over 3000 points of METAL squigs, hoppers, and characters from the 90s.  That is only going to get even more stupidly huge now that we have great new plastic models (I don't have a squig problem - really...).  I love massive squig units and honestly wish I could field them in even bigger units.

The small units are simply "different".  Minimum squig herd units are the cheapest possible battleline unit in the army.  They are conditional-battleline - which means they only count as a battleline unit if your army meets certain criteria.  There are a lot of conditional battleline units in the Gloomspite book and it is how the various sub-faction builds work.  The only unit that is always generic battleline are the 2 standard Grot units - Stabbas and Shootas.  Squig Herds become battleline if your general has the Moonclan keyword.  Squig Hoppers become battleline if your general is mounted on a Giant Cave Squig or a Mangler Squig.  Troggoths become battleline if your general is a Troggboss.  And Spider Riders become battleline if your general is Spiderfang. 

There are a lot of Moonclan heroes (any Loonboss, Madcap Shaman, Fungoid shaman, Skragrott) and so it is very easy to unlock Squig Herds as battleline.  You will often see minimum units of Squig Herds in many online lists because people are trying to fill out their mandatory battleline choices with the cheapest possible thing so that they can afford other units.  For example, I made a fun list filled with as many massive Bonegrinder Gargants as possible and they cost so many points that I used min units of Squig Herd to fulfill the battleline requirement.  This was simply a fun list that was meant to have giant drunken idiots stomp all over stuff and probably would never seriously compete to win since it really can't hold objectives.  A more competitive list may use Squig Herd units as battleline so that it can take a whole lot of Boingrot Bounders as an example.

It is also relatively inexpensive in terms of money since a single box of Squig Herds will build 2 minimum units.

But don't rule out the big units either.  They are quite different and it seems that the general community is starting to explore the use of big units and becoming pretty positive about them.  Squig Herds are surprisingly better than they may initially seem.

[Nez]

Ahhh now I understand. Thank you for the explanation @Skabnoze  

I think it may, however, be time to admit that you do have a Squig problem! 😊

What is the general consensus on Troggoths? I think all of their models are amazing and sooner rather than later I think I’ll add some Troggoths to the mix. 

[Malakree]

29 minutes ago, Nez said:

What is the general consensus on Troggoths? I think all of their models are amazing and sooner rather than later I think I’ll add some Troggoths to the mix. 

Rockguts hit like absolute trains. It's crazy how killy they are.

[Skabnoze]

40 minutes ago, Nez said:

Ahhh now I understand. Thank you for the explanation @Skabnoze  

I think it may, however, be time to admit that you do have a Squig problem! 😊

What is the general consensus on Troggoths? I think all of their models are amazing and sooner rather than later I think I’ll add some Troggoths to the mix. 

The general consensus at the moment is that the Rockbiter and Fellwater trolls are both excellent units.  The troggboss and normal dankhold trolls are a bit overcosted but not bad units.  In addition the Troggboss rapidly scales in effectiveness with the addition of a relic and command trait.  Mollog (the Warhammer Underwords unit) is really weird but has some use as a relatively inexpensive troll hero with some good durability.  And if you expand into stuff from Forgeworld the Troggoth Hag is absurdly good and possibly the best forgeworld monster available to all of destruction.  She is arguably a compelling option for any Destruction army that can include her.

The Troggherd battalion seems to be regarded by most people are pretty good.  I would personally go so far as to say that it is one of the best battalions in the battletome along with the Squig Rider Stampede and Spider Rider Skitterswarm.  If you are playing an army that leans heavily into troggoths then it is really hard to argue against taking that battalion - the same goes for those other 2 battalions if you play heavy spiders or lots of squig hoppers & boingrot bounders.

Where an all Troggoth army will most likely struggle are scenarios that require capturing a number of points as they are a low-model, small unit count, elite army.  All Troll armies will probably not ever be fighting over top tables at tournaments (mixed grots and trolls might though), but all troll armies should be quite potent and enjoyable for fun local games.

There is an entire separate thread on these forums for pure troll army discussions - so that should tell you something about how the community views it.

[svnvaldez]

1 hour ago, Nez said:

What is the general consensus on Troggoths? I think all of their models are amazing and sooner rather than later I think I’ll add some Troggoths to the mix. 

Do, you should. In min unit sizes I think you'll find they are decent. I would advise not investing a ton of money to bump them to their max unit size. I'm not sure they are pointed well enough to justify increasing the unit size past the min.

[Skabnoze]

7 minutes ago, svnvaldez said:

Do, you should. In min unit sizes I think you'll find they are decent. I would advise not investing a ton of money to bump them to their max unit size. I'm not sure they are pointed well enough to justify increasing the unit size past the min.

I think there is compelling arguments for fielding them in units of 6.

[svnvaldez]

1 minute ago, Skabnoze said:

I think there is compelling arguments for fielding them in units of 6.

I completely agree. I'm just trying to frame all my comments to someone who is new to AOS and wanting to make decisions they will not regret. I'm certainly projecting my personal feelings that a unit of 3 is cool regardless and a unit of 6 or 9 I feel like I'd have to build the list around.

[passtheKhorneplease]

1 hour ago, Skabnoze said:

There is an entire separate thread on these forums for pure troll army discussions - so that should tell you something about how the community views it.

You don't want to go to that thread though as it is very nasty.

[Mikeymajq]

I'm super tempted to do the Skitterstrand battalion at 2k pts, because it's so freakin cool, but the giant spiders aren't that impressive? Or am I just not seeing it? 😡

[svnvaldez]

14 minutes ago, Mikeymajq said:

I'm super tempted to do the Skitterstrand battalion at 2k pts, because it's so freakin cool, but the giant spiders aren't that impressive? Or am I just not seeing it? 😡

 

I think they are ehh and so you better really love the models if your going to have 2-3 in the list.

In game I quite like the spider with the shaman on top thou if you want a monster that is a caster and want to stay away from FW resin hag.

[Mikeymajq]

1 hour ago, svnvaldez said:

I think they are ehh and so you better really love the models if your going to have 2-3 in the list.

In game I quite like the spider with the shaman on top thou if you want a monster that is a caster and want to stay away from FW resin hag.

They do seem very ehh just by judging their warscroll. Even if you manage to deep strike them under the light of the moon...But the model is so awesome. 

I'm kinda torn on the variants. The long range one seems fun, but it feels like a lot of pts for a iffy ranged attack and I'd probably use it like a melee monster that just happens to have a cool ranged weapon. The shaman easily seems like the best version  (and therefore not as tempting for some reason)

Yeah I'm not really doing FW units. 

 

[Malakree]

Just now, Mikeymajq said:

They do seem very ehh just by judging their warscroll. Even if you manage to deep strike them under the light of the moon...But the model is so awesome. 

I'm kinda torn on the variants. The long range one seems fun, but it feels like a lot of pts for a iffy ranged attack and I'd probably use it like a melee monster that just happens to have a cool ranged weapon. The shaman easily seems like the best version  (and therefore not as tempting for some reason)

Yeah I'm not really doing FW units. 

The Skitterstrands are overcosted and the battalion isn't worth it because of that.

The other spiders are all worth it, the Warparty has a solid weapons profile with impact damage on a charge, the flinger is long ranged MW output and the combat delay is massive if you can get it off on a key unit. The shaman is just such an amazing utility tool. 

[Skabnoze]

The shaman is the main spider that is worthwhile in almost any list because it is the most self-sufficient and all-around useful.  It is also the main unit that just about any Spiderfang army is built around due to its buff spell.

[Lord Krungharr]

The Hag is  $100 which is pretty decent for a big Forgeworld model and on par with the Greater Daemons from GW proper.  She only casts 1 spell but she has a really good spell and durability, and a nasty vomit attack.  Plus the Fellwaters are awesome models and very good in the game, and they need a mother!  Not sure if they're currently in stock but I was checking out stuff late one night a couple weeks ago and saw it was in stock so immediately ordered one.

The Spider Shaman is pretty awesome though, and that too is a super cool model and very potent in the game.  Spiderfang in general seems pretty awesome though I haven't seen it played.  I'm waiting for warmer weather to prime my Trogg army so haven't used that yet either, but I did fight a big Rockgut Troggoth army last month and it was TOUGH.  He had the Troggboss, another Dankhold, and 3 Fungoid Shaman with the Scuttletide and Mushroom spells.  Those are super amazingly deady used together, and the absurd amount of command points he generated meant he never had to worry about battleshock or running or rerolling charge rolls (though he did fail one or two)..

I think if the OP is not worried about painting tons of models, then a mixed bag with some grots, squigs, and some Rockguts for teleporting to the enemy backside for scare tactics, is a great start.  Loonboss for a big unit of grots is a must!  Grots also give you access to usage of Loonsmasha Fanatics, which are if you don't want Rockguts but want killy death units.   I went with Troggs (and a few Shaman) for ease of low model count and paintjobs, plus half of mine puke and that's too fun But I'm very tempted to do squigs with a bunch of massive squig monster units too.  The Colossal Squig is another good Forgeworld unit, and they have the artillery squig too!

 

[Eevika]

I would say you want a Hag in almost every destruction army. It's probably the best hero the entire GA has for battleplans where you want heros/wizards on objectives maybe one of the best in the entire game competing with nagash and GUO.