AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Skreech Verminking]

3 hours ago, LeonBox said:

Advice needed! My regular opponent goes Lumineth with Teclis and 20 Sentinels most of the time, because he absolutely hates fun. Although I'm a one-drop, he's beat me with the roll-off both times and goes first so he can get his 5++ spell and Total Eclipse off, gimping my ability to fight back (particularly if I get the double, as both spells remain in effect). With Teclis he's guaranteed to get the spells off he needs, and he also has re-rolls from aetherquartz and his shrine. My list:

 

Verminlord Warpseer

 

Arch-Warlock, Amulet of Destiny, MMMWP

 

Warlock Bombardier, MMMWP

 

6 x Stormfiends, 2x windlaunchers, 2x Ratling Cannons, 2x Doomflayer Gauntlets

 

40x Clanrats

 

20x Clanrats

 

20x Clanrats

 

3x Warpfire Throwers His list:

 

Teclis

 

20x Sentinels

 

2x5 Roo Riders

 

5x Swordmasters

 

1x Cathallar

 

Any advice is much appreciated! I'm thinking of getting a Warpgrinder in the list and going all in on attacking his Sentinels, as they're far too dangerous. He killed my Stormfiends by turn 2 last battle, and also had the Cathallar's "Darkness of the Soul" spell on them to gimp their ability to act. Very frustrating.

a list I could see working could be this:

Allegiance: Skaventide
- Grand Strategy: 
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Arch-Warlock (175)**
- General
- Command Trait: Deranged Inventor  
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Clawlord (105)*
- Mighty Warlord Command Trait: Verminous Valour

Battleline
20 x Clanrats (130)**
- Rusty Blade
10 x Stormvermin (110)**
- Halberd & Shield

Units
6 x Stormfiends (630)*
- 02x Windlaunchers
- 02x Ratling Cannons
- 02x Doomflayer Gauntlets
- Reinforced x 1
60 x Clanrats (390)*
- Rusty Blade
- Allies
- Reinforced x 2
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)
1 x Warpfire Thrower (70)
1 x Warp-Grinder (75)**
1 x Warp-Grinder (75)**
1 x Warp-Grinder (75)**

Core Battalions
*Vanguard
**Battle Regiment

Total: 1975 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
Allies: 390 / 400
Wounds: 155
Drops: 4

basically everything except the clawlord, Stormvermins and the unit of 20 clan-rats is in deepstrike.

With the talisman of destiny your warlord the arch engineer, should be able to survive a unlucky warp grinder explosion, although you could roll really badly.

Your opponent of  course gets the choice, with who takes priority, but with almost nothing on the table on your side this could be challenging for him.

should he take the first turn, which could very likely happen, most of your army should be save from any kind of shooting.

depending how he moves and if he has any wardens (the given list wasn’t quite 2000points so I’m mostly just guessing) you should be able to deal a huge amount of damage against his teclis and any infatry he has with you flamers.

(Ps: you’ve got three of those weapon teams, my suggestion to you would be to only get 2 of them out to flame stuff away.

keeping the third one from any possible harm away, which will allow you to kill-burn a few more elves in the next turn.)

The deranged inventor trait on the arch warlock will allow you to reroll the to hit rolls on a single skryre unit in range, which should give you the chance to somewhat ingore the effect of not having had a chance to get mmmwp of.

Having the triumph inspired as an option isn’t bad either, since this can help you out a lot eith not having your mmmwp on the unit of stormfiends, so depending how much points your opponent has left, you could also easily remove 20 clanrats from you brick of 60, or just ignore bringing the clawlord, since his purpose is as much as to fill, points in your list

Edited October 8, 2021 by Skreech Verminking

[Brakkus]

So here's a shot of the army I'll be taking this weekend to the GT. We'll see how it does, but I'm just really going to enjoy myself and roll some dice with actual people. 

I'll report back as time permits, but excited to put the Skaven on the table again. 

[Skreech Verminking]

7 minutes ago, Brakkus said:

So here's a shot of the army I'll be taking this weekend to the GT. We'll see how it does, but I'm just really going to enjoy myself and roll some dice with actual people. 

I'll report back as time permits, but excited to put the Skaven on the table again. 

Good luck mate,

I’ll be partaking at an event as well (sadly with just with 20 people).

Still I’ll be going all out on Doomwheels with the levitate spell.

Lets see how many support heroes will soon Die-die

[greg19190]

I have a maybe local get together with 6 people and lots of rats so see how that goes...

[Brakkus]

After day 1 ended up 2-1. Had two major victories over Katakros OBR and Kragnos Gloomspite. Neither game was particularly difficult, with stormfiends and jezzails doing what they do. 

Major loss against double mawkrush Ironjawz. He got the double and three combat phases from two cabbages is a tough assault to come out of. 

Tomorrow starts early, so hoping to finish strong 

Edited October 10, 2021 by Brakkus

[Skreech Verminking]

4 hours ago, Brakkus said:

After day 1 ended up 2-1. Had two major victories over Katakros OBR and Kragnos Gloomspite. Neither game was particularly difficult, with stormfiends and jezzails doing what they do. 

Major loss against double mawkrush Ironjawz. He got the double and three combat phases from two cabbages is a tough assault to come out of. 

Tomorrow starts early, so hoping to finish strong 

Good luck, I will slay-beat many race-things player as well,

Yes-yes,

skaven will be victorious!!!

[Brakkus]

Finally home from the tournament and finished today 1-1 for a final showing of 3-2. There were 3 skaven players in total (the other two both went 2-3) and I finished 25th overall out of 78 people that showed up.

Lost against Tzeentch StD with Archie. His rerolling 1's is brutal. I wasn't counting but my opponemt rolled an obscene amount of 1's and converted probably 80% into successes. Hard to overcome the dice rolling. 

Last round I beat a hollowmourne FEC list to pull out the winning record for the weekend. I was particularly happy with this win as I pulled it out despite my opponent cripplong me turn 2

Overall, happy with how I did and given the state of aome armies, felt it was a good ahowing.

[Skreech Verminking]

So I basically went home with a 0-3.

My luck wasn’t too great when it came down to the doomwheels.

In my first game it drove 37 inches forward did around 18 mortal wounds to my enemies whole army, since it was standing next to a shark i had to take it as the target in the shooting phase, which of course I shot to death.

But i did roll a double 12, and took 9 mortal wounds to the doomwheel, which meant that I had lost my mortal wound potential in the charge phase.

my opponent then proceeded to kill-kill my whole army, thx to the double turn he got (I rolled a one again trying to deny it)

in my second game I played against a ironjawz army.

and well I failed to roll anything better then a 6, which I then chose to re-roll with more more speed, probably wasn't the right time, since my it did more damage to me then to my opponent.

I also failed getting of dreaded skitterleap of which meant that the vortex will not have gotten set up.

my opponent took the next turn moved his maw crusher 36 inches and was able to charge another 18 more, which he then charged my deceiver and destroyed it.

thankfully i denied him a double turn which meant that I wasn’t dead yet.

So to remove the mawcrusher i had to shoot everything from my army use all my damage dealing magic and the vortex to just barely scratch him.

In the end I lost yet I was able to kill-kill his big guy in 3rounds.

it just took all of my shooting, magic and combat prowess (arch warlock with overcharged stuff) to kill-kill him.

probably not the greatest exchange, but hey what can you do against a clearly under pointed model that is almost if nit even more resilient the  gotrek with his 2+ save ignoring rend 1 with a 5+ ward.

In my third battle my dies just told me to go home.

I basically rolled nothing but ones.

rolled over my own army, my Arch warlock died, because I was unable to make 4 2+ saves (rolled 4 1s, and couldn’t make a single ward save on him)

I was unable to get the vortex of, even with a reroll and +1 to cast, and since I needed all my cp to keep my deceiver alive against gotrek (probably my biggest mistake) he was no matter what dead), lost all my clanrats to battleshock.

And the steam punk dwarfs took their victory.

I guess yesterday just wasn’t my day.

Still I do believe that the doomwheel has it’s potential in the best of days,

and who knows maybe with the low winrate skaven currently has, we might be able to finally see a points reduction for it.

[greg19190]

I had great much success and went 3 and 0, against bone reapers with arcon the black and loads of mortec guard and 2 crawlers and cataclysm, nasty fireslayers list with 2 blocks of harthguard -1 to wound 18 inch big lizard loads of hero's and gotrec... and a stormcast list with alot of msu big shield blokes and the star drake. So loads of different armys to test kill the grater rat race on (thankwell survived a round of combat against an angry dwarf also :D) 

[Throt]

I had my first game with Skaven yesterday and had a question I was hoping my fellow rats might be able to answer...

My Hell Pit died in combat against Drycha after her first melee profile was resolved and I rolled it's alive but didn't know when this happens? We played it that Drycha could then continue with her next attack profile. Although I was hoping the ability would activate after combat...thematically cool but not written anywhere.

Thanks in advance!

[Skreech Verminking]

5 minutes ago, Throt said:

I had my first game with Skaven yesterday and had a question I was hoping my fellow rats might be able to answer...

My Hell Pit died in combat against Drycha after her first melee profile was resolved and I rolled it's alive but didn't know when this happens? We played it that Drycha could then continue with her next attack profile. Although I was hoping the ability would activate after combat...thematically cool but not written anywhere.

Thanks in advance!

It immediately happens, yet all attacks that targeted the hell pit will be ignored, when it comes back

[Throt]

Played it wrong, dash it all! Do you know where I can point out the relevant rule to hit? Thanks!

[Skreech Verminking]

It is on the warscroll, I marked it for you

[LeonBox]

5 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

It is on the warscroll, I marked it for you

But if she has another attack profile, she should be allowed to attack, no? Wounds and mortal wounds are negated, but if she chose the Hell Pit as the target for her next melee attack, it seems to me she should get her attacks. 

[Ahriman]

3 minutes ago, LeonBox said:

But if she has another attack profile, she should be allowed to attack, no? Wounds and mortal wounds are negated, but if she chose the Hell Pit as the target for her next melee attack, it seems to me she should get her attacks. 

Even though everyone I've ever met removes models after each individual attack has been rolled, I believe you're meant to hold off applying the damage until all attacks have rolled hits, wounds, and saves.

So then the damage pool would kill the Hell Pit Abomination, it would come back, and remaining damage is lost.

 

[tupavko]

5 minutes ago, LeonBox said:

But if she has another attack profile, she should be allowed to attack, no? Wounds and mortal wounds are negated, but if she chose the Hell Pit as the target for her next melee attack, it seems to me she should get her attacks. 

No. Unless specifically stated (at the beginning/at the end) all attacks are considered to be simultaneous so even if your opponent has 25 profiles, they are wasted. 

[LeonBox]

Good to know!

[LeonBox]

On 10/11/2021 at 5:24 PM, Skreech Verminking said:

I was unable to get the vortex of, even with a reroll and +1 to cast, and since I needed all my cp to keep my deceiver alive against gotrek (probably my biggest mistake) he was no matter what dead), lost all my clanrats to battleshock.

I don't know the circumstances here, but basically Gotrek should never be in combat with a Verminlord. Leave the runt to his business and cap the other objectives. He's only realistically killable on a double turn, but even then the amount of firepower needed just makes it not worth it. You could just kill everything around him instead. 

I got in two games yesterday, both with heavy Skryre shooting.  Both had 6 Stormfiends, Warpseers, Arch-Warlocks, Bombardiers and 3x20 Clanrats. List A had 6 Jezzails, list B a Warp-grinder, 2x Ratlings and 2x Warpfire Throwers. 

Game A was against a similar Teclis list my opponent has been fielding for weeks now. Teclis, 20x Sentinels, 2x5 Roos, 5x Swordmasters, Cathallar, Sevireth. I did better than last time but it really is an uphill struggle; Cathallar put a permanent -1 bravery debuff on my Stormfiends and I messed up with my Warpseer around turn 2, losing him to Lambent Light and Power of Hysh on the Sentinels (he should never have been close enough for that to happen, so my bad). Battleshock killed all my Clanrats after that. 

I managed to pull it back a little, killing the Cathallar and her Swordmaster bodyguards and both units of Roos but unable to crack the Teclis egg and with Sevireth still running around killing whatever he wanted at will. Also, bravery debuffs (and permanent Total Eclipse leaving me low on CP options) cost me the whole Stormfiend unit after battleshock. 

Second game was again LRL, since I'm apparently never getting to play against another army again. This was my opponent's "fluffy" list: Gotrek, LRL Twins, Eltharion, 3x5 Stoneguard, Stonemage, named cow mountain dude. 

Despite no Teclis, my opponent rolled super high for magic; the only round without the 5++ spell and Total Eclipse was round 5. Also, despite giving my opponent first turn, I didn't win priority once and so never got a double. 

This game was much closer, as he didn't really have an answer for my Stormfiends. Unfortunately the battleplan favoured his "immovable mountain" flavour, as it was the one where you need to hold objectives for 2 consecutive turns before gaining victory points. 

I messed up by targeting Gotrek with heavy shooting (as I said above, just ignore Gotrek!). I put 6 wounds on him with 2 overcharged Ratlings and 6D6 Ratling shots from the Stormfiends, but I didn't get the double I was hoping for and he just healed everything back. That same shooting could have murdered half of the rest of his army. I actually did end up murdering well over half his army, as he was left with 3 Stoneguard, the Stonemage and Gotrek. I had my Warpseer, around 20 Clanrats, 5 Stormfiends, my Warlock and Bombardier. 

In the end it was a 22-22 draw; we both completed 4 battle tactics, so no tie-breaker. Much more entertaining battle than the first, even if my opponent cannot find it in himself to stop fielding some OP model or other in every battle! 

[basement dweller]

On 10/10/2021 at 7:24 PM, Brakkus said:

Finally home from the tournament and finished today 1-1 for a final showing of 3-2. There were 3 skaven players in total (the other two both went 2-3) and I finished 25th overall out of 78 people that showed up.

Lost against Tzeentch StD with Archie. His rerolling 1's is brutal. I wasn't counting but my opponemt rolled an obscene amount of 1's and converted probably 80% into successes. Hard to overcome the dice rolling. 

Last round I beat a hollowmourne FEC list to pull out the winning record for the weekend. I was particularly happy with this win as I pulled it out despite my opponent cripplong me turn 2

Overall, happy with how I did and given the state of aome armies, felt it was a good ahowing.

Would you mind sharing your list?  I can make out most from the photo but curious on the heroes and enhancments taken.  Im trying to get inspired to paint some more rats that are not moulder....

[Brakkus]

@basement dweller Sure, not a problem. My list:

Allegiance: Skaventide
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Grey Seer (140)*
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of Ruin: Skitterleap
Warlock Bombardier (125)*
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Verminlord Warpseer (335)*
- General
- Command Trait: Master of Magic
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon

Battleline
20 x Clanrats (130)*
- Rusty Spear
- 1x Standard Bearers
- 1x Standard Bell Ringers
20 x Clanrats (130)*
- Rusty Blade
- 1x Standard Bearers
- 1x Standard Bell Ringers
20 x Clanrats (130)*
- Rusty Blade
- 1x Standard Bearers
- 1x Standard Bell Ringers

Units
6 x Stormfiends (630)*
- 2x Windlaunchers
- 2x Ratling Cannons
- 2x Shock Gauntlets
- Reinforced x 1

Artillery
Warplock Jezzails (290)*

Endless Spells & Invocations
Warp Lightning Vortex (90)

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 130
Drops: 1
 

Note the command trait on the Warpseer is the generic Master of Magic and not the one from our book. With the re-roll for the Bombardier due to warpstone sparks, re-roll for the Warpseer from the trait and the 3d6 cast on the Grey Seer you should get spells off pretty consistently. 

However, with skaven, should is fickle to the Great Horned Rat, as I had many rounds where I got ZERO spells off. I will say the WLV was clutch every single game and I got it off in round 1 4 out of 5 games. The one time I didn't it's because I didn't try to cast it due to the gigantic LOS blocking terrain in the middle of the board. 

If I were to do it over, I'd probably drop the stormfiends for something else. Yes, they are a huge threat and target for your opponent and yes, they can pump out terrifying damage, but having to buff a 630 point unit with a spell and a CP for +1 to hit isn't terribly efficient. Especially in the meta now with so many armies being able to apply their, arguably more powerful buffs, with simply a choice. 

Stormfiends are a fantastic unit in so many ways but they just felt like a huge weight when I didn't get my buffs on them and the end result for damage was sooooo disappointing. The jezzails were much more consistent and in all my games they only had one bad round of shooting. 

Any other questions around the list or games and I'm happy to share. 

[basement dweller]

15 hours ago, Brakkus said:

@basement dweller Sure, not a problem. My list:

Allegiance: Skaventide
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Grey Seer (140)*
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of Ruin: Skitterleap
Warlock Bombardier (125)*
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
Verminlord Warpseer (335)*
- General
- Command Trait: Master of Magic
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon

Battleline
20 x Clanrats (130)*
- Rusty Spear
- 1x Standard Bearers
- 1x Standard Bell Ringers
20 x Clanrats (130)*
- Rusty Blade
- 1x Standard Bearers
- 1x Standard Bell Ringers
20 x Clanrats (130)*
- Rusty Blade
- 1x Standard Bearers
- 1x Standard Bell Ringers

Units
6 x Stormfiends (630)*
- 2x Windlaunchers
- 2x Ratling Cannons
- 2x Shock Gauntlets
- Reinforced x 1

Artillery
Warplock Jezzails (290)*

Endless Spells & Invocations
Warp Lightning Vortex (90)

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 130
Drops: 1
 

 

Thank you sir.  This is very helpful.  I want to paint my stormfiends but understand your mixed feelings on them.  What would you replace them with?  Rat ogres? Stormvermin?  Lots of points to play with...

[fishwaffle2232]

On 10/14/2021 at 12:37 AM, Brakkus said:

Stormfiends are a fantastic unit in so many ways but they just felt like a huge weight when I didn't get my buffs on them and the end result for damage was sooooo disappointing. The jezzails were much more consistent and in all my games they only had one bad round of shooting. 

Any other questions around the list or games and I'm happy to share. 

My "non-friendly" list takes 2 x 6 jezzails for this reason. They don't really need baby sitters and they can seriously threaten your opponents key pieces. I still love stormfiends though and I find it really hard to leave them at home. 

[SaucyRatBear]

I absolutely love rat ogors but that is just because I have always been partial to Clan Moulder. Before stating what to add though think "what role do I want this unit to play" then after that "do I have the appropriate support to make this unit shine?" For Rat Ogors you absolutely want a Master Moulder for the new mutations and for Unleash More-More Beasts. The Ogors can also fill both tank and DPS roles but it's best to choose one and focus on that aspect. As a side but related note I have to say I love the customization options that mutations bring!

[DocKeule]

4 hours ago, fishwaffle2232 said:

My "non-friendly" list takes 2 x 6 jezzails for this reason. They don't really need baby sitters and they can seriously threaten your opponents key pieces. I still love stormfiends though and I find it really hard to leave them at home. 

I think with 3.0 they will be much less efficient. In the new battletomes you have a lot 3+ saves on regular (or semi-elite) units and up to 2+ on heroes. With allout defense and/or mystic shield even -2 rend is still not that devastating. 

I have played my Idoneth against a skaven-list with six Jezzails few weeks ago. Since my Ishlaen eels ignore rend and they got the +1 to saves in the turtle's bubble they did close to nothing (and fell relatively quick to my shooting). I am expecting the number of attacks like with a rattling cannon (weapon team or Stormfiend) to be much more viable in the new edition.

[Skreech Verminking]

18 minutes ago, DocKeule said:

I think with 3.0 they will be much less efficient. In the new battletomes you have a lot 3+ saves on regular (or semi-elite) units and up to 2+ on heroes. With allout defense and/or mystic shield even -2 rend is still not that devastating. 

I have played my Idoneth against a skaven-list with six Jezzails few weeks ago. Since my Ishlaen eels ignore rend and they got the +1 to saves in the turtle's bubble they did close to nothing (and fell relatively quick to my shooting). I am expecting the number of attacks like with a rattling cannon (weapon team or Stormfiend) to be much more viable in the new edition.

Playing against deepkins is currently very hard for the skaven.

currently nothing really works against them, unless the skavenplayer is taking a good amount of mortal wounds with him.

But currently I would probably still consider stormfiends as the better option then 2x6jezzails.

Jezzails are an amazing unit, yet, the current edition of save stacking doesn’t quite favor their sniping potential.

And then there are the giant-things.

you really want to shoot of a giant per round, if that isn’t possible for the skaven player, your next bet is to have some movement stopping power (like shackles with warpgale and/or dreaded warpgale)

if that isn’t a possibility either I’m not certain a list can beat them.

Lumineth are a hard choice too.

Most of their list are either a 1drop or a two drop list, which makes it hard having the choice.

the foxlist, while being very fast, are also able to basically kill 12 jezzails with out a sweat, at this point you would have to als yourself, if you either have enough bodies, that their shooting will fail to remove from the objective game, or if you still have any threads left, that could do some to a good amount of damage to them, but considering that the hated elf-things are anyways overruled (considering how they break every rule in the game) and the fact, that they might loose more then 90% of their rules, if we consider the last 2 third edition battletomes, I would probably not argue with them, but be excited, for the moment when lumineth gets worse.

personally I think that our currently best units against most match ups might be warplightning cannons and stormfiends, if we are going for raw damage power.

for a more hordy style of play I would very likey take 3Verminlord, a plague priest with heal, 2x60clanrats 1x20clanrats