AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Gwendar]

35 minutes ago, Darkhan said:

Tbh, I don't see the reason why everyone is taking stormvermin now in their list. Sure they got cheaper. But 400 points is a lot for a "chaf" unit. And imo, you want that clawlord. So 500p.

Sure, ill test it myself. But I really don't see this being a big WOW. Monks still a lot cheaper.

I'm just salty that they did not go down to 350p😂

 

I'm with you, but still wrote a couple lists with them just to test. I do not see them being the competitive choice when I get similar damage output from 40 Monks, of which I can bring 80 of for only 60 more points (if you include the obligatory Clawlord, as you said).

I'll be honest, after the TTS tournament this weekend and going 1-2 I'm heavily debating going back towards a Fiend\Monk\Jezzail list with Bridge. Double Warpgrinders has been working okay, but against anyone zoning them out it's hard to do anything significant with them and they'll just get deleted unless you get a double. In a tournament of 30-200+ people, you could fight a bunch of these meta lists or none at all; my Lumineth opponent got 3rd at LVO this year building towards handling OBR and he never played a single OBR player and 19 were present at the event.. so I'm trying to rethink how I list-built.

Speaking of my Lumineth opponent, the short summary to me is that Lumineth is a hard counter for us; they're weak against MW spam but with the FNP auras and multiple -'s to hit them.. it's rough when our stuff inherently hits on 4+'s and he was easily making the Monks hit on 5's or 6's even at 40. When 40 Monks crash into 2 different units of only 10 Wardens and kill 5 and 3 of them respectively it's just incredibly disheartening. Again though, with the -'s to hit then shooting at them isn't going to give much better results.. and then you have Teclis, but no reason to go into that again. Guy is an incredible player and being unfamiliar with Lumineth didn't help.

[Darkhan]

29 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

it's rough when our stuff inherently hits on 4+'s and he was easily making the Monks hit on 5's or 6's even at 40. When 40 Monks crash into 2 different units of only 10 Wardens and kill 5 and 3 of them respectively it's just incredibly disheartening. Again though, with the -'s to hit then shooting at them isn't going to give much better results.. and then you have Teclis, but no reason to go into that again. Guy is an incredible player and being unfamiliar with Lumineth didn't help.

Was this a melee only debuff? Or can they do that against shooting as well?

[Gwendar]

3 hours ago, Darkhan said:

Was this a melee only debuff? Or can they do that against shooting as well?

I believe it's -'s to hit in general, not just melee. The shining company rule gives them -1 and they get another from a spell if I recall.

[Num]

What about the hell pit abominations and doomwheels? I saw several of you running one or the other in the past months. Now that they both got a points reduction, would you still run them?

[Orphen1991]

9 hours ago, Gwendar said:

I'm with you, but still wrote a couple lists with them just to test. I do not see them being the competitive choice when I get similar damage output from 40 Monks, of which I can bring 80 of for only 60 more points (if you include the obligatory Clawlord, as you said).

I'll be honest, after the TTS tournament this weekend and going 1-2 I'm heavily debating going back towards a Fiend\Monk\Jezzail list with Bridge. Double Warpgrinders has been working okay, but against anyone zoning them out it's hard to do anything significant with them and they'll just get deleted unless you get a double. In a tournament of 30-200+ people, you could fight a bunch of these meta lists or none at all; my Lumineth opponent got 3rd at LVO this year building towards handling OBR and he never played a single OBR player and 19 were present at the event.. so I'm trying to rethink how I list-built.

Speaking of my Lumineth opponent, the short summary to me is that Lumineth is a hard counter for us; they're weak against MW spam but with the FNP auras and multiple -'s to hit them.. it's rough when our stuff inherently hits on 4+'s and he was easily making the Monks hit on 5's or 6's even at 40. When 40 Monks crash into 2 different units of only 10 Wardens and kill 5 and 3 of them respectively it's just incredibly disheartening. Again though, with the -'s to hit then shooting at them isn't going to give much better results.. and then you have Teclis, but no reason to go into that again. Guy is an incredible player and being unfamiliar with Lumineth didn't help.

Do you recall what kind of lumineth list he was playing? I think that in the magic side we are not even a match for them, although I see some kind of hope in a full shooting list.

[Skreech Verminking]

56 minutes ago, Num said:

What about the hell pit abominations and doomwheels? I saw several of you running one or the other in the past months. Now that they both got a points reduction, would you still run them?

Yes I would.

They both are Incredible Units.

and at such a points reduction, taking a Abomination instead of 40monks, seems like a well thought bought.

Doomwheels might be considered a joke and not worth taking, but in reality they are a Nightmare for any Ironjawz, Ossiarch bone-reaper or city of sigmar army.

With the Vial of the fulminator their movement will average a total of 28inches, which is incredible useful in the late game, and can snipe small support heroes in a single turn, or even Kill-slay a 12wound character if your lucky.

 

[Cosmicsheep]

14 hours ago, Fainted said:

Hey there 
I'm just getting into AoS and wanting to make a fun but still competitive army. I've been looking around a bit, and would love to hear what you think of list below! I'm adding 2x engineers for consistency getting MMMWP off and for some assurance since they seem quite squishy. I'm thinking the Greyseer and clanrats could make an effective screen of clanrats that dont run away, while the Jezzails and Stormfiends can deal damage from behind.
What do you think?
 

That's pretty much my goto list right there. It's not uber-competitive, but i've won many friendly games with that list.

If nothing else, it's a great starting list that you can chop and change around a few things here and there. Maybe swap out the jezzails for 2 warp cannons?

[Gwendar]

6 hours ago, Num said:

What about the hell pit abominations and doomwheels? I saw several of you running one or the other in the past months. Now that they both got a points reduction, would you still run them?

HPA's no, probably not.. not unless they went to 200 then I would definitely think about running 2. I enjoy them for their "counter-charge" style because of their 2d6" movement... but that's also a big reason why they can be hard to use competitively if you need to go offensive and they roll 4" to move.

Doomwheels I still think are worth it, but I feel the same in that I need 2 at a minimum. They're still up for debate for me between 2 DW's vs 6 Jezzails, but 6 Jezzails will more consistently pop off support heroes.. again, because the random 2d6 shots and d3 damage can be the difference between killing it and doing only 2 wounds to it.

 

5 hours ago, Orphen1991 said:

Do you recall what kind of lumineth list he was playing? I think that in the magic side we are not even a match for them, although I see some kind of hope in a full shooting list.

This was the LRL list:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Lumineth Realm Lords
- Great Nation: Syar

Leaders
Scinari Cathallar (140)
- General
- Command Trait: Goading Arrogance
- Artefact: Blade of Leaping Gold
- Lore of Hysh: Total Eclipse
Archmage Teclis and Celennar, Spirit of Hysh (660)

Battleline
10 x Vanari Auralan Wardens (120)
- Lore of Hysh: Solar Flare
10 x Vanari Auralan Wardens (120)
- Lore of Hysh: Lambent Light
10 x Vanari Auralan Wardens (120)
- Lore of Hysh: Speed of Hysh
20 x Vanari Auralan Sentinels (280)
- Lore of Hysh: Protection of Hysh
10 x Vanari Auralan Sentinels (140)
- Lore of Hysh: Total Eclipse
10 x Vanari Auralan Sentinels (140)
- Lore of Hysh: Ethereal Blessing

Battalions
Auralan Legion (120)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)
Hyshian Twinstones (30)
Umbral Spellportal (70)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 91
 

Not many are going to be a match for them when it comes to magic. I think shooting is the better route to go in our case, but if they're allowed to get all those buffs off you're going to have a hard time taking anything out no matter what. The difficult part of this list was that he actually had enough bodies to screen\zone out deepstrikes rather well. 80 Monks did a total of 8 wounds which is just incredibly disheartening to watch.. and that's due to the multiple saves and -'s to hit which applies to shooting as well, meaning those inherent 4+ to hit now goes to a 5+ (or 4+ with Vigordust) and good luck killing anything.

Even if you manage to kill the Wardens then he has 40 Sentinels and Teclis that will shoot\magic you off the board. The unit of 20 did ~11 MW's alone to the Warpgnaw and the units of 10 were averaging 3-5 MW's when they used the ability\spell to make them do MW's on 5+'s. I don't want to seem salty, but I definitely think they're a bit overtuned and most certainly an army I don't think we really have the tools to deal with without winning priority every time; at least not in this particular setup. He lost to KO 1st round, but they obviously struggle with board coverage. Battle for the Pass was easier for him to simply turtle up, prevent anything shooting at something important, wipe me off the board and then have 3 turns to claim objectives.

The guy is an incredible player and I definitely can\intend to learn a lot from him. He was the guy who took 4th at this past LVO with Skaven.. so I don't want to discount him for just outplaying me. But it really did feel quite disparaging pretty quickly.

[Coyote]

Disregard, nothing to see here.

Edited July 7, 2020 by Coyote

[Gwendar]

I don't normally get in on these rumor debates. The last one with the sword could be Skaven, but it could just as easily be Vampires or Elves.

This one is trickier; Could be Vampires, could be 40k, could be who knows what. But I'll throw you all a suggestion Skaven related; flesh-crafted Moulder wings used by a new Eshin flying unit 😉

As much as I want a Skryre+Eshin combination, I think the more realistic approach may be to update both the Moulder and Eshin lines together and combine the two in a way such as this. Who knows.. they may just update every Clan in some little way to show interaction between them.. or maybe it's purely Moulder.

[Captain Squeekbeard]

The first model of my glorious clan, who will soon rule the waves, yes-yes!

(the bare base is obviously a distraction)

[Cosmicsheep]

5 hours ago, Gwendar said:

As much as I want a Skryre+Eshin combination, I think the more realistic approach may be to update both the Moulder and Eshin lines together and combine the two in a way such as this.

I was surprised, and very happy, to see Moulder getting some love in the new GHB. Maybe this IS the year of the rat after all?

I do feel that Eshin  have been totally forgotten about though 😢

[Num]

On 6/15/2020 at 4:30 PM, Skreech Verminking said:

So I had a splendid game yesterday.

my army consisted of:

Allegiance: Skaventide
- Mortal Realm: Chamon
LEADERS
Skarn, engineer of Dooooom!! (120)
Warlock Bombardier
- General
- Command Trait : Deranged Inventor
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : More-more-more Warp Power!
Snag an gruk (120)
Warlock Bombardier
- Artefact : Vial of the Fulminator
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : More-more-more Warp Power!
Saanok the mad (120)
Warlock Bombardier
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism : More-more-more Warp Power!
UNITS
Shreeks mighty vermins (200)
40 x Clanrats - Rusty Blade
The black furred gnawers of the deep warrens (200)
40 x Clanrats - Rusty Blade
The backstabbing backstabbers (200)
40 x Clanrats - Rusty Blade
Stalkers of galgatresh (80)
10 x Night Runners
The mysterious mystery (80)
10 x Night Runners
Skarns miserable experiments (240)
20 x Skryre Acolytes
The deathvermins (240)
20 x Skryre Acolytes
The wheels of Doom (160)
1 x Doomwheel
The Messenger of Dooooooooooom!!! (160)
1 x Doomwheel
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
   Bell of Doom (40) shackles (40)
 TOTAL: 2000/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 0 WOUNDS: 211
LEADERS: 3/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 2/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4 ARTEFACTS: 1/1 ALLIES: 0/400

 

 

Your list just gained 100pts to spend on toys

[Num]

I am also wondering about the long range shooting options we have. From what I've read here, I see either jezzails or WLC.

But can 6 stormfiends (2* globes) play that role instead? Is it enough?

Or 2-3 plagueclaws and a architect of death plague priest for 2-3* 2+/3+(rerollable)/-2/2D6 ?

What about a double arkspark battalion ?

I love my double WLC but I've had some bad luck with them and I'd like to try something more mobile like fiends+doomwheels

 

[Skreech Verminking]

3 hours ago, Num said:

Your list just gained 100pts to spend on toys

Yeah I know.

I’m really thinking of putting a unit of 4clanrats down to 20 and either take another doomwheel or warplightning cannon.

although I might as well take a cheaper hero like for example a clawlord into my army.

Clanrats might not be the perfect unit that wants to get buffed, but they will kill a seeker or two if needed 

2 hours ago, Num said:

I am also wondering about the long range shooting options we have. From what I've read here, I see either jezzails or WLC.

But can 6 stormfiends (2* globes) play that role instead? Is it enough?

Or 2-3 plagueclaws and a architect of death plague priest for 2-3* 2+/3+(rerollable)/-2/2D6 ?

What about a double arkspark battalion ?

I love my double WLC but I've had some bad luck with them and I'd like to try something more mobile like fiends+doomwheels

 

As somebody who used globe throwers often, I can tell you that they aren’t bad at all.

they may not be the perfect support snipers but can do a ton of damage if you hit and wound with them, especially when combine them with the rattling gun fiends who’ll be targeting the screen or a different kind of elite unit

Edited July 8, 2020 by Skreech Verminking

[Gwendar]

6 hours ago, Num said:

I am also wondering about the long range shooting options we have. From what I've read here, I see either jezzails or WLC.

But can 6 stormfiends (2* globes) play that role instead? Is it enough?

Or 2-3 plagueclaws and a architect of death plague priest for 2-3* 2+/3+(rerollable)/-2/2D6 ?

What about a double arkspark battalion ?

I love my double WLC but I've had some bad luck with them and I'd like to try something more mobile like fiends+doomwheels

Yes actually, they could work if you split those 6 shots onto a support hero in the same way you would use the Jezzails\WLC to target them. If you assume the Fiends are getting Deranged Inventor (lets say MMMWP fails to go off and you have this as backup) + Vigordust + Spark then on average they'll do 6-7 damage vs a 4+. The d3 damage can be swingy, but at the very least you would need 3 of the 6 shots to go through unsaved (which at -3 rend is likely to happen) and even if you roll all 1's or 2's you can still kill them with the +1 damage. Not to mention they don't require Line of Sight.

6 Jezzails will do about 5-6 damage, but may be more "consistent" in that regard with a spark, meaning only 2-3 shots need to go through unsaved.

Plagueclaws I'm still on the fence about really. They're very "all or nothing" much like the Mortek Crawlers, but at least those have a flat damage characteristic. The d6 damage in itself is unreliable compared to the above 2 options, though Plagueclaws would give you a small anti-horde option as well as a potential hero sniping option all in one if you get really luck with rolls. The issue is that even when targeting 10+ model units 1 of them is only going to be doing around 5-7 damage on average which seems pretty abysmal for a 150 point investment that's looking to remove hordes of 20-40 models. I don't know that bringing a Priest for the sole purpose of buffing them with RR Wounds is worth it either as it only adds another 1-2 average damage and you can get Thanquol with 4 Warpfire Throwers for about the same when it comes to a horde clearer who brings magic utility that he does.

As for Arkhspark.. I did it a few times, liked it as it made them more consistent but I still think it's overcosted considering the taxes involved. I'd rather see it change to 80-100 points and be 1-2 Engineers\Bombardiers and 1-2 WLC's and not require the "main" battalion with the AW.

2-3 Doomwheels are pretty consistent at support hero killing and give us some mobility. It just sucks when you really need 5-7+ shots and you roll 2-3; although if you get 2-3 wounds on that hero then you can charge them and do another d3 MW's 😅

Edited July 8, 2020 by Gwendar

[Firefrog]

Truly love the Doomwheel model, but they're so weak in my opinion. Even when overcharging and no debuffs (on a support character your probably will get -1 to hit from look at sir) you will do on average 5 damage on a 5+. That's cutting way too close for 150 points, while their small support character will cost alot less.

Sure, you could put MMWP on them and send them on a carnage, and it'll do 9 damage in the same situation. But, that's average, it's so swingy you could do alot less or alot more.

Even though Laser Cannon Deathsentence are random when overcharging, it'll feel very good when you roll a 1 or a 2 and do 12 MW's, or you could roll a 6... blow yourself up, and do 1-2 MW in return 🤣 , but different role ofcourse.

Jezzails are also very poorly, especially if you compare them to the Stormcast variant which can shoot twice and has more range and they got a price reduction.

[Num]

Thanks, I think I will keep the Stormfiends then, and perhaps add 1-2 WLC if needed...

I'd also like to run more Moulder in my list, but I am not sure a full Moulder list is viable enough... Rat ogors seem inferior to stormvermins, even with the point reductions. I may try the following though (4 drops):

Quote

Allegiance: Skaventide
Grey Seer (140)
- General
- Command Trait: Verminous Valour
- Artefact: Skavenbrew
- Lore of Ruin: Death Frenzy
Master Moulder (100)
- Artefact: Rabid Crown
40 x Giant Rats (200)
10 x Giant Rats (60)
10 x Giant Rats (60)
4 x Rat Ogors (200)
4 x Rat Ogors (200)
3 x Packmasters (60)
3 x Stormfiends (260)
- 1x Warpfire Projectors
- 1x Grinderfists
- 1x Doomflayer Gauntlets
3 x Stormfiends (260)
- 1x Warpfire Projectors
- 1x Grinderfists
- 1x Doomflayer Gauntlets
Hell Pit Abomination (240)
Fleshmeld Menagerie (160)
Chronomantic Cogs (80)
Vermintide (40)

Total: 2060 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 156

Otherwise, here is the mixed clans. I put the stormvermins battleline instead of the clanrats because clanrats seemed redundant with the giant rats (meatshields). Instead of a WLC+bombardier, I may also try a second HPA and chronomatic cogs...

Quote

Allegiance: Skaventide
Master Moulder (100)
- General
- Command Trait: Hordemaster
Warlock Bombardier (120)
Warlock Engineer (100)
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector
- Lore of Warpvolt Galvanism: More-more-more Warp Power!
10 x Stormvermin (120)
- Halberd & Shield
10 x Stormvermin (120)
- Halberd & Shield
10 x Stormvermin (120)
- Halberd & Shield
6 x Stormfiends (520)
- 2x Windlaunchers
- 2x Ratling Cannons
- 2x Shock Gauntlets
20 x Giant Rats (120)
20 x Giant Rats (120)
20 x Giant Rats (120)
Hell Pit Abomination (240)
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
Extra Command Point (50)
Bell of Doom (40)

Total: 2070 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 161

 

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, Firefrog said:

 

Truly love the Doomwheel model, but they're so weak in my opinion. Even when overcharging and no debuffs (on a support character your probably will get -1 to hit from look at sir) you will do on average 5 damage on a 5+. That's cutting way too close for 150 points, while their small support character will cost alot less.

 

Use the Vial of the fulminator artefact on the doomwheel, and your  opinion on theWheel of doom  will change drastically!

especially when your playing against bonereapers, Ironjawz or even hedonites of slaanesh

[Gwendar]

4 hours ago, Firefrog said:

Laser Cannon Deathsentence

Jezzails are also very poorly, especially if you compare them to the Stormcast variant which can shoot twice and has more range and they got a price reduction.

I appreciate your reference 🤘

I would agree with Doomwheels, which is why I would always take 2 to average them out.. but yeah, is that worth it for 300? Probably not, at least not compared to 6 Jezzails and they would certainly not be something I expect to be in range of (nor the best target for) MMMWP or a Warpspark. And yeah, Jezzails are definitely just worse versions of Longstrikes, but they are our best 5 wound hero killer next to the previously mentioned Windlaunchers. 2 WLC's are obviously good too, but swinginess generally isn't the best idea for competitiveness.

[fishwaffle2232]

With SydGT slowly approaching and the leaks of the new points changes I have been fiddling around with lists. It sounds like a lot of people are thinking along the same lines as what I have been. 

I have been trying to break down my lists to hit some key objectives.: 

1. Have 3-4 threats on the table

2. Have enough bodies/wounds to contest objectives

3. Have some form of battleshock immunity

4. Long range threat to snipe off small support heroes

5. Have ways to deal with hordes, both hammers and anvils. 

6. Compete in the magic phase but don't rely on it. 

I'm there are other things I should be thinking about but so far those points are what I have been working with. 

 

So far I have been playing around with a couple of variations, but they all have Thanquol. I think he may JUST be worth his points for what he does in the magic phase and for horde removal, but I do realise he is a big chunk of points. I also kinda want him cos he is the best thing in skaven lore (...maybe after Queek). 

 

Spoiler

List 1

Extra CP

Leaders:

Thanquol -skitterleap or warpgale

Bombadier - MMMWP

Engineer - DI, MMMWP, VI

Battleline:

2x 20 clanrats

1x 40 clanrats

Artillery:

6x Jezzails

Other:

6x stormfiends

Spells:

Bell of Doom 

Aethervoid pendulum 

2000pts

Spoiler

List 2

Extra CP

Leaders:

Thanquol -skitterleap or warpgale

Bombadier - MMMWP

Engineer - DI, MMMWP, VI

Battleline:

2x 20 clanrats

1x 40 clanrats

Artillery:

WLC

Behemoth:

Doomwheel

Other:

6x stormfiends

Spells:

Bell of Doom 

2000pts

 

List 2 is definitely fun with the WLC and DW. I'm just not sure how frustrated I will get in a tournament setting if one of the other clans has decided to meddle with our machinery and they don't end up performing. 

List 1: Im not sure 6 jezzails is enough to do the job of sniping heroes. I used to run 6 Jezzails but found them a bit hit and miss. Much prefer taking 9 but I just can't fit it in with stormfiends and 2 engineers. I can't justify dropping to 1 engineer either, I think with all the ranged magic sniping and shooting in the meta currently, I feel like the redundancy is necessary to justify the investment on stormfiends. 

What do you guys reckon, is there something i've missed here? Is this list going to be able to handle at least some of the newer armies? 

I'm not aiming for top tables, but I at least want to be competitive enough to get some wins or close games.

Edited July 9, 2020 by fishwaffle2232

[Gwendar]

49 minutes ago, fishwaffle2232 said:

List 2 is definitely fun with the WLC and DW. I'm just not sure how frustrated I will get in a tournament setting if one of the other clans has decided to meddle with our machinery and they don't end up performing. 

List 1: Im not sure 6 jezzails is enough to do the job of sniping heroes. I used to run 6 Jezzails but found them a bit hit and miss. Much prefer taking 9 but I just can't fit it in with stormfiends and 2 engineers. I can't justify dropping to 1 engineer either, I think with all the ranged magic sniping and shooting in the meta currently, I feel like the redundancy is necessary to justify the investment on stormfiends. 

What do you guys reckon, is there something i've missed here? Is this list going to be able to handle at least some of the newer armies? 

I definitely prefer 1. I've pretty much exclusively gone down to only 6 Jezzails for the sole purpose of killing support heroes. Even without a Warpspark (but still with RR's to hit) and being on 5's to hit, if only 3 of those go through then you're looking at a dead hero.. and for 280 points, I don't think we have much better to fill that specific role. Units of 9-12 are just able to punch stuff that's a bit bigger, but even then they'll often struggle to 1-shot anything at that wounds\save level. You do have Windlaunchers that could also snipe out a hero so that's another reason I don't feel you need 9 Jezzails anymore, but that's just me.

List 2 you pretty much summed up; unreliability. I've been playing a lot more competitive\tournament minded people the last few weeks and have learned a lot from that and changed a few things I was previously set in. DW's and WLC's are great when they work but that's the problem with them. 6 Jezzails will more consistently work and they're cheaper. I think if you wanted to take DW's or WLC's, you would need 2-3 to justify it.. but again, is that worth the points cost compared to 6-9 Jezzails who could do the same thing for cheaper and more consistently?

Something I've come to realize is that it generally isn't worth building specifically towards countering those 3-4 S Tier meta armies unless the build can work for everything in between. Thanquol is still up for debate for a lot of the top tier Skaven players; generally between himself or just running a Bell with Master of Magic for less (I dislike this as it would mean I couldn't get Deranged Inventor as a MMMWP failsafe). I personally like him, but he definitely isn't in every list. Just like any other big hero, any good tournament player will see what he can do and remove him from the table, keep him outside 8", etc. We work well in that we can be present in multiple phases and don't do any 1 thing exceptionally well... which is why the "classic" 40 Monks +6 Fiends + 6 Jezzails still works well and is what I keep going back to. Oh, and worth mentioning that if you're taking Thanquol, Soulscream Bridge actually isn't too bad and you could take it by dropping a CP + Pendulum.

Anyway, good luck to you.. just get that practice in. If you want to get some games in via Tabletop Simulator let me know and I can invite you to some discord groups 😉 

[fishwaffle2232]

58 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

Oh, and worth mentioning that if you're taking Thanquol, Soulscream Bridge actually isn't too bad and you could take it by dropping a CP + Pendulum.

Anyway, good luck to you.. just get that practice in. If you want to get some games in via Tabletop Simulator let me know and I can invite you to some discord groups 😉 

Yea I went off the bridge because it felt like it required too much setup and with the amount of magic around at the moment its even easier for it to be interrupted, and its just so many points. 

I'm wary of dropping the extra CP because without the screaming bell, it leaves my army open to taking some heavy losses from battleshock on the first turn. 

Awesome advice though,  confirms what i had been thinking, that list 1 would do what i want it to more reliably. There is something appealing to just rolling the dice with the DW WLC though. 

Just got a new PC so I might give TS a try at some point. I'll hit you up if I do.  

[Gwendar]

17 minutes ago, fishwaffle2232 said:

Yea I went off the bridge because it felt like it required too much setup and with the amount of magic around at the moment its even easier for it to be interrupted, and its just so many points. 

I'm wary of dropping the extra CP because without the screaming bell, it leaves my army open to taking some heavy losses from battleshock on the first turn. 

Awesome advice though,  confirms what i had been thinking, that list 1 would do what i want it to more reliably. There is something appealing to just rolling the dice with the DW WLC though. 

Just got a new PC so I might give TS a try at some point. I'll hit you up if I do.  

True, but again I'm thinking more about those 3 out of 5 games where I don't play against Seraphon, Tzeentch or Lumineth, which is what I think you're aiming to do; hell if I get top 10 in a 30-60 player event I'm content. In those games against magically inferior armies, you've got a near guaranteed chance of it not getting unbound and even against those armies with Thanquol you can be okay, especially if you make sure you're out of unbind (which I know can be hard if they go first and get closer, but usually we're forced to go first due to our high drop count and Tzeentch\Seraphon\Lumineth generally playing low drops). It's definitely not a requirement anymore like it was with the whole 9-Fiends-across-the-bridge-alpha-strike lists, but it still works well a lot of the time as a utility piece.

This is true, although with proper pre-measuring of the opponents threat range I generally haven't had issues in that regard. At most I'll get alpha'd from them getting a double turn, but then I have the chance at getting one myself and all\most of their heavy hitters are now right in front of my Monks and Fiends that sat behind those 60-100 Clanrats.. even if they get BS'd off at this point, I generally have enough stuff to clear the board and cap objectives for 3 turns 😉

I get your points with all of the above, I just want to give some alternate views. AoS really boils down to deployment and objective control, so bodies and 3 threats minimum works best. You could consider dropping Jezzails and taking a Bell if you're that worried about BS simply because the 6 Fiends can also take out support heroes with about the same statistical likelihood as 6 Jezzails. Of course, I like having both so you can double down on something like Kroak or target 2 separate ones. But yeah, definitely let me know.. I play more than just Skaven so you don't have to worry about a mirror match 😅

[fishwaffle2232]

@Gwendar how do you feel about the WLV with the point drop. It's one I have been thinking about, especially running thanquol. I keep putting it into lists and then taking it back out.

Seems there are quite differing views on it. Dan brewer was on honest wargamer this week talking about it. Although Rob was going on about how the spell is still broken...which I think is ****** tbh, Dan thinks the decreased range means it going to block our own stuff and might be more of a hinderance than benefit, even with the point reduction. 

Edited July 10, 2020 by fishwaffle2232