AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Cosmicsheep]

28 minutes ago, frostfire said:

Correct me if I am wrong: you can remove Shadow queen from the battlefield with the Brass Orb and shoot Morathi right off the table.😉 

There’s been a lot of debate about this over on the FB group. Technically, rules as written, yes you could, assuming you can do enough damage in that turn. Pretty sure this is not what the GW designers intended for the Brass Orb and you might want to consult your TO if taking this to a tournament.

Edit: sorry, wrong way round. If you remove the shadow queen and kill Morathi, the shadow queen can still come back. Nothing on their warscrolls says that the shadow queen dies if Morathi does. If you use the brass orb on Morathi, then the 3 wound limit is still valid on the shadow queen

Edited June 28, 2022 by Cosmicsheep

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

Hey All, I organized our allegiance rules onto some printable reference sheets. One less book to lug around. 

*Edited last 6/28/2022 12:50 am

 

Teachings of the Horned Rat.pdf

Edited June 28, 2022 by Riff_Raff_Rascal

[Cosmicsheep]

5 minutes ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

Hey All, I organized our allegiance rules onto some printable reference sheets. One less book to lug around. 

Teachings of the Horned Rat.pdf 1.64 MB · 0 downloads

Looks great, thank you for pulling this together. I spotted a couple of small mistakes though:

The only shared command trait is Devious Adversary. Malevolent is gone, and Savage Overlord is now Verminus only

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@Cosmicsheep Good call. Editing my previous doc with nothing but leak pictures is never perfect. If anyone sees anything off I can re-upload it in the same post.

[Moogypies]

Had my first game with the Rats today, I went full moulder with 2x20 clanrats. 

Was against a kurnoth based sylvaneth list, both of our first game with new missions/GHB and tomes!

Ended as a skaven victory at Turn 4 18-4, would've been able to get up to 28-4 with the fifth turn. 

My general takeaways-

Giant rats are surpisingly shreddy when buffed and people just ignore them when rat ogors are in their face, combined with the rat ogors all being tanky now, it's a delicious combo. The little rats managed to nibble through 4 kurnoths in a turn and left lady of vines at 1!

Hellpits, still a love hate relationship, they do a decent job, not quite good enough, sometimes excellent it's too random 😛 

Rat Ogors are as they where before, solid.

Moulders, bring back on a 3+ is just so nice ❤️ Crack the whip +3 to charges is so big for good positioning, using it on the giant rats was so good  

List was as follows

Allegiance: Skaven
- Grand Strategy: Take What's Theirs
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Master Moulder (90)**
- General
- Command Trait: Moulder Supreme
Master Moulder (90)**
- Artefact: Rabid Crown
Master Moulder (90)**
- Artefact: Foulhide

Battleline
18 x Giant Rats (180)*
- Reinforced x 2
4 x Rat Ogors (280)*
- Reinforced x 1
4 x Rat Ogors (280)*
- Reinforced x 1
20 x Clanrats (100)***
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (100)***
- Rusty Spear

Behemoths
Hell Pit Abomination (245)
Hell Pit Abomination (245)
Hell Pit Abomination (245)

Core Battalions
*Bounty Hunters
**Command Entourage - Magnificent
***Expert Conquerors

Total: 1945 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 4 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 163
Drops: 11


 

Edited June 30, 2022 by Moogypies

[vaector]

I've seen several people here including Thanquol with the Flaming Weapon spell within the last week or so. Correct me if I'm wrong, but since he is unique, doesn't that mean he is unable to take any spells from the Universal Spell Lore?

[Bregor]

2 hours ago, vaector said:

I've seen several people here including Thanquol with the Flaming Weapon spell within the last week or so. Correct me if I'm wrong, but since he is unique, doesn't that mean he is unable to take any spells from the Universal Spell Lore?

Yeah, the app seems to be letting you take a spell on him for some reason. Don't know why.

[vaector]

1 hour ago, Bregor said:

Yeah, the app seems to be letting you take a spell on him for some reason. Don't know why.

I can't imagine you wouldn't be able to take a spell on him from the Lore of Ruin. The fact that the spell lore is missing the provision for allowing unique heroes to take it that all of the other 3rd edition books do has to be an oversight that will get patched in the FAQ. But the universal spell lore has been specifically banned for unique units so it makes less sense why anybody would be taking that unless it's just a placeholder or something.

[vaector]

I also just finished watching Vincy V's Skaven tome overview from yesterday's Warhammer Weekly and they mention how you can stack Death Frenzy and Dreaded Death Frenzy spells on a single unit and it got me thinking, how does coherency work with that? I understand that "fighting" means "pile in then attack" but if it is only for models that died how do you pile in those models without breaking coherency with the rest of the unit? Or are you supposed to just pile in at most the likely fractions of an inch that you can make while still maintaining coherency?

Edited July 1, 2022 by vaector
omited word

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@vaector You bring up a very technical ruling but I'll attempt organize what we have to work with

1.3.3 UNIT COHERENCY

Units must be set up and finish every move as a single coherent group (pile-in counts as a move)

12.2 PILE IN

You can move a model making a pile-in move up to 3". When you make a pile-in move with a model, it must finish the move no further from the nearest enemy unit than it was at the start of the move.

Death Frenzy

Until your next hero phase, when a model from that unit is slain, before it is removed from play, it can make a pile-in move and then attack 

So the good news is, RAW unit coherency refers to units NOT individual models and pile-in moves are on a model by model basis. Death frenzy only refers to individual models so you're in the clear. 

Also good news, RAI works as well as its the only practical way to use it without being a worthless.

 

[vaector]

1 hour ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

@vaector You bring up a very technical ruling but I'll attempt organize what we have to work with

1.3.3 UNIT COHERENCY

Units must be set up and finish every move as a single coherent group (pile-in counts as a move)

12.2 PILE IN

You can move a model making a pile-in move up to 3". When you make a pile-in move with a model, it must finish the move no further from the nearest enemy unit than it was at the start of the move.

Death Frenzy

Until your next hero phase, when a model from that unit is slain, before it is removed from play, it can make a pile-in move and then attack 

So the good news is, RAW unit coherency refers to units NOT individual models and pile-in moves are on a model by model basis. Death frenzy only refers to individual models so you're in the clear. 

Also good news, RAI works as well as its the only practical way to use it without being a worthless.

 

What a lovely breakdown. Thank you!

Since it is a fairly subtle distinction made in 1.3.3 and multiple factions have a "fight on death" kind of ability, it would be nice if GW would add a bit a of designer note to 1.3.3 making that very explicit. Something to the effect of, "Sometimes an ability allows a model to move separately from its unit and in that case unit coherency isn't broken. Example: Death frenzy...". But you know, written better.

[Cosmicsheep]

11 hours ago, Moogypies said:

Giant rats are surpisingly shreddy when buffed and people just ignore them when rat ogors are in their face, combined with the rat ogors all being tanky now, it's a delicious combo. The little rats managed to nibble through 4 kurnoths in a turn and left lady of vines at 1!

I loved being able to take giant rats in units of 40 in 2.0. With a rabid crown they were seriously under-estimated. Glad to hear that they still are

[Cosmicsheep]

7 hours ago, vaector said:

how do you pile in those models without breaking coherency with the rest of the unit?

With our massive range now, we shouldn't even need to pile-in that far to get our attacks off.  And since the model is immediately removed from the table, the unit should still be coherent at the end of the turn anyway

Also, don't forget a unit can only attack twice max. So DF + DDF is only worthwhile if you don't plan on attacking with that unit until last, by which point any models that didn't die can then pile-in and attack ensuring coherency 

Edited July 1, 2022 by Cosmicsheep

[Skreech Verminking]

49 minutes ago, Cosmicsheep said:

With our massive range now, we shouldn't even need to pile-in that far to get our attacks off.  And since the model is immediately removed from the table, the unit should still be coherent at the end of the turn anyway

Also, don't forget a unit can only attack twice max. So DF + DDF is only worthwhile if you don't plan on attacking with that unit until last, by which point any models that didn't die can then pile-in and attack ensuring coherency 

Theoretically you cans till double deathfrenzy the same unit just with the dreaded deathfrenzy spell.

After all it says pick up to d3 units, so what if I chose the same unit d3 times.

It doesn’t say that I have to pick up to d3 different units

Edited July 1, 2022 by Skreech Verminking

[Cosmicsheep]

@Skreech Verminking agreed. I was just pointing out that rule 1.6.5 stipulates that a unit can shoot or fight no more than twice in a phase. So a unit with DF + DDF, or 2 DDF's should be chosen to fight last. If you've already fought with them and then models are subsequently killed, they can only use 1 of the death frenzy abilities

[Skreech Verminking]

3 minutes ago, Cosmicsheep said:

@Skreech Verminking agreed. I was just pointing out that rule 1.6.5 stipulates that a unit can shoot or fight no more than twice in a phase. So a unit with DF + DDF, or 2 DDF's should be chosen to fight last. If you've already fought with them and then models are subsequently killed, they can only use 1 of the death frenzy abilities

Yeah I know.

I’m just mentioning the fact that a grey seer and a verminlord warbringer, in the same army aren’t needed to get the effect of double dethafrenzy.

I fully understand the concept that attacking more then twice in a phase, isn’t possoble, with an ability 

[Cosmicsheep]

Apologies, i wasn't trying to teach you how to suck eggs  I realise that you probably knew that already, it was more aimed at the OP and anyone else reading

<humbly bows and scampers off into the darkness>  

[madmac]

Does anyone have the build instructions for the skaven half of Nethermaze? Normally these things are easy to find, but not this one.

[Umjammerlama]

3 hours ago, madmac said:

Does anyone have the build instructions for the skaven half of Nethermaze? Normally these things are easy to find, but not this one.

Have a look on page 253 of this post. I posted the instructions there. 

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

Is anyone else pumped about them Doom-Flayers? I already tried 3 of them out in a single unit of clanrats and boy what fun. 

So heres the strat: Make sure whatever you charge in with is a Galletian Vet, spend a CP for Overwhelming Assault from the Gallet battlepack, impose strike last, then swing with ALL of your Doom-Flayers, Profit. Obviously this will only be good against other chaff but you can make clanrats strike super hard. 

Here's the try hard strat: Command phase, Skitterleap Plague Priest forward, try to Curse something, ideally a big scary thing. Then a pack of Plague Monks that are being tunneled up by a Warp Grinder pop up in front of the priest.. With their built-in +1 charge, you can more likely get them in. Ideally you can tag multiple units, have the plaguemonks try to head the way of a big scary thing but in range of a chewable unit. Let the doom-flayers all hit the chaff unit after Overwhelming Assulting them and the monks go big on the scary thing. 

 

 

[madmac]

20 minutes ago, Umjammerlama said:

Have a look on page 253 of this post. I posted the instructions there. 

Thank you!

[Skreech Verminking]

14 minutes ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

Is anyone else pumped about them Doom-Flayers? I already tried 3 of them out in a single unit of clanrats and boy what fun. 

So heres the strat: Make sure whatever you charge in with is a Galletian Vet, spend a CP for Overwhelming Assault from the Gallet battlepack, impose strike last, then swing with ALL of your Doom-Flayers, Profit. Obviously this will only be good against other chaff but you can make clanrats strike super hard. 

Here's the try hard strat: Command phase, Skitterleap Plague Priest forward, try to Curse something, ideally a big scary thing. Then a pack of Plague Monks that are being tunneled up by a Warp Grinder pop up in front of the priest.. With their built-in +1 charge, you can more likely get them in. Ideally you can tag multiple units, have the plaguemonks try to head the way of a big scary thing but in range of a chewable unit. Let the doom-flayers all hit the chaff unit after Overwhelming Assulting them and the monks go big on the scary thing. 

 

 

I’m actually thinking of building a list consisiting of 6 rattling guns, 6 warpfire thrower weapon twams and 6 doom flayers all hidden in a single unit of 60clanrats,

because the wording makes it possible😄

I just gotta get my hands on some juicy doom flayer 3d files from total war warhammer 2

Edited July 1, 2022 by Skreech Verminking

[Skreech Verminking]

Welp that one unit of clanrats would cost exactly 1565 points😂.

I think at this point overseer of destruction is a worthy command trait to take

[W1tchhunter]

15 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Welp that one unit of clanrats would cost exactly 1565 points😂.

I think at this point overseer of destruction is a worthy command trait to take

https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/game/beyblade-riders

These are great

[Cosmicsheep]

23 hours ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

charge in with is a Galletian Vet, spend a CP for Overwhelming Assault from the Gallet battlepack, impose strike last,

I am underwhelmed (pun intended) by this command ability. For any real reliability it needs to be done against units of 3 or less, and even then it's a 50/50. Seems like a waste of a CP and overkill for your plan to use it with 3 doom flayers